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OD is optometry doctor? basically a specialist of the eyes. and they can do laser surgeries? sounds good to me
And again I dont understand the point of the pictures above, what are they trying to prove that you can do a lot of procedures even thought you're not really an eye doctor that has an MD degree?
You do realize OD stands for Oculus Doctor, right?
That's like saying a DDS is not a dental doctor because an OMFS has the MD degree.
How does a dental student not know that most omfs don't have MDs?
You do realize OD stands for Oculus Doctor, right?
That's like saying a DDS is not a dental doctor because an OMFS has the MD degree.
All i'm saying is that an OD isn't nearly the same thing as an Ophthalmologist who went to med school and performs surgeries. Most ODs dont do anything invasive, they dont even do the lasik surgery. Additionally our modern world allows machines to do most of the work. Unlike a dentist who actually has to use tools and perform surgeries, an OD simply reads and interprets the results. My close friend is a manager of an optical store and his favorite machine is the one that can automatically measure your vision. You simply look into the holes and see a little house, the machine reads the amount of light that your eye can capture and provides him with the result. By the time the patient sees the OD, the OD knows what vision he has and can perform more tests, which is probably more in line with actually billing the insurance company.
I'm not here to bash on that profession but its less of a "doctor" type role IMO. Even a podiatrist performs more invasive procedures like surgeries, etc. And we all know how the MD profession views podiatrists.
It is true ophthalmologists get more surgical training but the lines between the professions are slowly blurring and some if not many ODs actually compete with comprehensive ophthalmologists. That is why many ophthos go on to do fellowships to specialize in the retina or cornea or oculoplastics or neuro-ophthalmology etc.
Yes, you are correct, that machine is called an auto-refractor but they can only do so much and your rx still needs to be tweaked slightly. Also, those machines do not screen for diseases such as glaucoma which is really 99% of the time caught when you go see an eye doctor. Usually there are no symptoms until it is too late, you lost some vision already as it is a slow and painless nerve atrophy. In any case, ODs are moving more medical and every year you see a state pass new laws such as injections are now allowed here, or laser surgery is allowed, or Florida just passed an oral medications bill for ODs which brings the total # of states to 48/50 that allow ODs to rx orals.
As for the podiatrists...well their average GPA and MCAT are notoriously low. Average matriculant stats are: GPA: 3.1 and MCAT: 21.9
Source: http://www.aacpm.org/html/careerzone/cz3_faqs.asp
Its a little surprising seeing as they do some surgeries and make good $$$.
As for ODs, for my school the average matriculant stats are GPA: 3.5 OAT: 350. (score range 200-400, 350 is like 75th percentile) Our OAT test is made by the ADA actually, we have the same Bio, ochem, genchem sections as you guys except they took out spatial reasoning and put in physics instead. The overall average matriculant stats are GPA: ~3.42 and OAT: ~330
Source: http://www.opted.org/files/Profile of the Entering Class 2011.pdf
Just thought it would be cool to outline some objective statistics
To each his own, long term potential earnings are much higher in the professions that i've mentioned.
I'm not here to bash on that profession but its less of a "doctor" type role IMO. Even a podiatrist performs more invasive procedures like surgeries, etc. And we all know how the MD profession views podiatrists.
Ya, I'll be a fake doctor. Getting fake reimbursements from Medicare, diagnosing fake diseases and prescribing fake medications
You're a hybrid more like a PA, not quite a Optical tech and not even close to an MD.
You just can't stop can you lol. Even when I agreed with you that you'll probably make more money. You won't be an MD so I don't know why you are bashing a similar profession to yours.
PAs are nothing without an MD. They work under their licenses.
ODs work under their own licenses and they can:
-See patients directly with no referrals.
-Diagnose all diseases of the eye and the adnexa.
-Diagnose systemic/non-eye diseases such as brain tumors, hypertension and diabetes that may cause reduced vision.
-Give out prescriptions for glasses, contacts, and medications both topical and oral.
-Give out narcotic rxs.
-Perform orthokeratology.
-Administer injections to treat eye disease depending on the state. (13/50 currently)
-Perform many minor surgical procedures including but not limited to: dilation, irrigation and closure of the lacrimal punctum, perform epilation by forceps or electrolysis, remove foreign bodies from the eye, excise or drain chalazia (full list here for one sample state: http://plboards.state.wy.us/optometry/PDF\Index\OptometryProcedureCodes.pdf)
-Perform major scalpel and laser surgery (currently only in two states).
If you want to know what ODs will be able to do in the future take a look here: http://www.theoptometricproceduresinstitute.com/ODCE.TV/About_US.html
PAs are actually not allowed to do many things with the eye including giving eye exams by law. So even under an MD license they cannot do this.
PAs and ODs treat and diagnose w/o any surgery. A list of "maybe and what ifs?" for the future dont guarantee anything. When you start to perform some surgeries, I'll call you doc.
Its not basic at all and currently we can do it in two states (LASEK).If ODs are highly valued and respected I'd like to know why they're not allowed to perform the basic of eye surgeries like Lasik?
PS I dont want to be an MD but I dont expect my patients to call me doctor outside of the office either. Hope you dont expect that either.
Just do what you can be proud of and be successful at...looking for acceptance of your professional skills from other health professions is a futile exercise.
IM docs think they're smarter than surgeons
Ents think they're smarter than omfs
Pre dents think theyre smarter than pre...uh...ODs...
And Dental Anesthesiologists know hands down that they're the best, as has been confirmed by all scientific studies I have performed during phone conversations with my grandma
I forgot where I was going with this...
Then you would call me a surgeon. In any case I'll perform some minor surgeries third year in optometry school. For billing purposes removal of corneal foreign bodies is considered a surgery and so is the occlusion of lacrimal puncta. I don't even know why I'm still talking to you. I provided you a list of things that ODs can and do perform depending on location. None of it is "maybe and what ifs" because its just a matter of individual state law and a matter of WHEN.
So basically its not surgery... WHENis subjective to maybe...
Its not basic at all and currently we can do it in two states (LASEK).
2 states out of 50? Wow!
They can call me whatever they want. I like to go by my first name.
Lol I expect to be called by my first name when I work at McDonalds
Agreed. You guys will learn that unless you're working in pediatrics, it is important to have your patients call you doctor...and to have your staff and even co-docs address you as doctor in front of patients.
This isn't an entitlement thing, but a patient reassurance issue. Patients want to be with a person of authority and expertise...they want to be with someone that will tell them what to do because of experience and knowledge. This is especially important when you first start, and for those of us cursed/blessed with a young face.
Also, whenever my on call pager goes off And I have to call in I announce "this is dr..." because you never know when some spry young ladies are listening . jk (this does work tho...fwiw)
I already posted this on the predental forum but I'll post again. See attached.
Fixed-costs Only
5-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $7,236
Yearly Repayment = $86,836
Total Interest = $71,557
Total Repayment = $434,178
10-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $4,272
Yearly Repayment = $51,263
Total Interest = $150,006
Total Repayment = $512,627
20-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $2,884
Yearly Repayment = $34,603
Total Interest = $329,448
Total Repayment = $692,069
http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.
At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.
At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.
What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?
I already posted this on the predental forum but I'll post again. See attached.
Fixed-costs Only
5-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $7,236
Yearly Repayment = $86,836
Total Interest = $71,557
Total Repayment = $434,178
10-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $4,272
Yearly Repayment = $51,263
Total Interest = $150,006
Total Repayment = $512,627
20-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $2,884
Yearly Repayment = $34,603
Total Interest = $329,448
Total Repayment = $692,069
http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
I noticed they don't update their tuition on the USC dental website. I guess they don't want applicants to experience the sticker-shock!I already posted this on the predental forum but I'll post again. See attached.
Fixed-costs Only
5-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $7,236
Yearly Repayment = $86,836
Total Interest = $71,557
Total Repayment = $434,178
10-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $4,272
Yearly Repayment = $51,263
Total Interest = $150,006
Total Repayment = $512,627
20-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $2,884
Yearly Repayment = $34,603
Total Interest = $329,448
Total Repayment = $692,069
http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
I already posted this on the predental forum but I'll post again. See attached.
Fixed-costs Only
5-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $7,236
Yearly Repayment = $86,836
Total Interest = $71,557
Total Repayment = $434,178
10-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $4,272
Yearly Repayment = $51,263
Total Interest = $150,006
Total Repayment = $512,627
20-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $2,884
Yearly Repayment = $34,603
Total Interest = $329,448
Total Repayment = $692,069
http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
Problem is where im from (CA) the state schools are super tough to get into and even if I apply OOS they would charge me tuition that rivals that USC/NYU.
There are some dental schools in the south such as UT Houston and LSU where the total cost of attendance for all 4 years OOS is less than $200K. If I had to apply to dental schools today, I would strongly consider those options.
From 2012 to 2015, USC first year went from $114k to $126k. An average of 3.5% ⬆️ a year, and will cross a new milestone of $130k mark for the new freshmen this fall. Total of $500k for 4 yrs before interest (not including undergrad and residency cost).Running USC's numbers, I got closer to 485K owed at graduation (using a mere 7.3% interest averaged between 6.8% and 7.9%). This is also assuming they do not increase prices at all for the next 4 years. Considering how student who are entering now will likely experience at least a little price increase, I think they are already at that 500K mark.
From 2012 to 2015, USC first year went from $114k to $126k. An average of 3.5% ⬆️ a year, and will cross a new milestone of $130k mark for the new freshmen this fall. Total of $500k for 4 yrs before interest (not including undergrad and residency cost).
People are still applying...
https://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
Some of the top private expensive schools ($400-500k range) are actually boasting about tuition increase.
Midwestern in AZ notes historic tuition increases of between 4-7% on their website. So the best case scenario, 2016-2017 will have 4% increase from this year's $428k total cost of attendance. That's $17k jump, or as high as $30k for next class. You do this over 5-10 years... Who knows if they will still be open for business.
https://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/2015-16 AZ/Dental _ AZ 1516 final.pdf
From 2012 to 2015, USC first year went from $114k to $126k. An average of 3.5% ⬆️ a year, and will cross a new milestone of $130k mark for the new freshmen this fall. Total of $500k for 4 yrs before interest (not including undergrad and residency cost).
People are still applying...
https://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
lol even state schools have COA above 200k total. My state school COA for 4 years is a bit above 280k.... I will be living in my parents' basement for a very long time.
At that price, I'd be playing somewhere else. @Incis0r is right, $500k+ in student loans, before interest cap, is pure insanity.Gotta pay to play
Wild. In this economy I wonder how long it would take to service that tuition debt
You could service that debt in a day if you opened a dental school
!SDN School of Dentistry! Coming to you 2020
USC Dean of clinical affairs reduced our clinic time to 4 sessions a week for seniors and 2 sessions a week for juniors. Each sessions is about 3 hours, unless you have rotations, we essentially sit at home 4 days a week. you can no longer choose which faculty you want to work with. My wife asked me why am I paying USC top dollars as a part time student LOL. Future applicants be warned. Oh that and PBL.
Even if you dislike PBL, would you say that its better preparing you for real world critical thinking?USC Dean of clinical affairs reduced our clinic time to 4 sessions a week for seniors and 2 sessions a week for juniors. Each sessions is about 3 hours, unless you have rotations, we essentially sit at home 4 days a week. you can no longer choose which faculty you want to work with. My wife asked me why am I paying USC top dollars as a part time student LOL. Future applicants be warned. Oh that and PBL.
USC Dean of clinical affairs reduced our clinic time to 4 sessions a week for seniors and 2 sessions a week for juniors. Each sessions is about 3 hours, unless you have rotations, we essentially sit at home 4 days a week. you can no longer choose which faculty you want to work with. My wife asked me why am I paying USC top dollars as a part time student LOL. Future applicants be warned. Oh that and PBL.