About the ads

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

USC vs. Loma Linda

Discussion in 'Internal Medicine and IM Subspecialties' started by Cardioverter, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors and sponsors. Thank you.
  1. Cardioverter

    Cardioverter

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member

    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Im having a tough time deciding between these programs. I interviewed at both and have created a list of pros and cons but I'm still stuck. I would like to pursue a cards fellowship. Anybody have any advice or experience?
  2. jdh71

    jdh71 si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    38,261
    Location:
    contemplating walk-about
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 7+ Year Member
    As Im sure you've seen they are both pretty similar programs - you probably have a better shot at getting into cards at LLU - the fellowship likes to keep it's own. USC seems to match about the same number of people into cards, but it's a bigger residency program and the cards program seems to take less of it's own . . . the other important question to ask is if you want to live in LA for three years
  3. Trekkie963

    Trekkie963 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    359
    Location:
    California
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Loma Linda offers a more diverse clinical experience, smaller feel, and more cush schedule.

    USC has much more research available for a resident to get involved in (although whether you'd have time to do that research is separate issue). USC also has LA County.
  4. PalCareGrl

    PalCareGrl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    Cali
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    SDN 10+ Year Member
    Wow - I'm really curious as to why anyone would think LLU and USC are similar? I picture them as being very different - can anyone comment on how they are similar?

    I think as far as matching in cards - LLU does like to take from within.
  5. jdh71

    jdh71 si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    38,261
    Location:
    contemplating walk-about
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 7+ Year Member
    Mostly because of patient population and busy nature of both programs. USC is cutting back call to 8 months with the opening of the new hospital, and LLU has it's no call/light call subspecialty months, but when you're working, you're slammed. And, while LLU technically is not a county hospital, it might as well be because it treats everyone . . . at least medicine does, and you couple that with the time out at RCRMC and I think you have two programs with a certain amount of similarities.
  6. PayingMyDues

    PayingMyDues Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    72
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    ARE you a DO? sounds like I know you...

    I interviewed at both places...I would take LLU if that were my choices...are you crazy to compare the two...

    LLU

    easy call compared to Q4 11 months...and yes the 8 months is ONLY if the new hospital opens in july...which is Not going to happen

    less residents to compete against for cards...

    Less social crap to deal with...plus able to work with 3 differents populations

    Living will be a lot less expensive...
  7. jdh71

    jdh71 si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    38,261
    Location:
    contemplating walk-about
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 7+ Year Member
    DO? No. I've got a real medical degree (haha - just kidding - calm down folks ;-P)

    I hate to tell you this, but the patient population at the University and the patient population out at Riverside County are the SAME population, but you'll see . . .

    PLENTY of "social crap" - seriously how the **** would you be able to assess that unless you've been there and done that?

    And if you think call at LLU is "easy" . . . I hope you match there, but imagine this time next year, you'll be singing a different tune.
  8. PayingMyDues

    PayingMyDues Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    72
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    I was telling that to the OP....being the DO

    And YES it is easy compared to USC...ask the first years at both places ...Q4 11 months...i;ll stop there

    compare the nurses at USC and LL....and yes I have done a month at both sites to tell you this...
  9. GIJOES

    GIJOES

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    78
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    As a 2nd year resident, NOT at USC or LLU, but rotated there as a med student, LLU to me was better overall. When you are a resident, social issues and patients that don't give a damn if you are helping them was NOT my cup of tea. The residents at USC are way overworked, and if they don't match into cardiology at their home institution, they will have a tough time matching at all.

    Think about it. You have Stanford, UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, Cedars-Sinai and possibly Harbor-UCLA that are all better programs than USC and match better than USC in cards. So you are competing against all those other schools that usually want to stay in CA, and cards fellowship PD's will rather take from the higher "ranked" schools than from USC. Also there are ~60 residents you will be competing with, making ~10-15 going into cards...rough percentage.

    That being said, LLU, smaller program, takes within, but again, if don't get within program, will have tough time matching into cards anywhere. But overall, better nursing staff, not in a dangerous city, and more appreciative patients.

    This is my 2 cents, but if you have received interviews at the above mentioned programs, strongly consider those over USC or LLU, trust me, your cards match will go a lot smoother.
  10. jdh71

    jdh71 si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    38,261
    Location:
    contemplating walk-about
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 7+ Year Member
    The first years at USC, while acknowledging that all the q4 was a pain in the ass, that it was VERY manageable - the average intern at USC was going home at least an hour before the average intern at LLU. No prerounding at USC either, show up for morning report, work rounds, rounds, tie up loose ends, go home. And some of those call months as way chill for call - a few scheduled admits and cross-cover of stable patients who may need a tylenol or a zofran . . .

    A month at LLU? Did you spend any time at Riverside County?
  11. jdh71

    jdh71 si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    38,261
    Location:
    contemplating walk-about
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 7+ Year Member
    I agree, but that's a bit of a moot point. The OP was addressing USC vs LLU I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion if this person had a UCSF, UCSD, UCLA-Harbor, Cedars on his rank list.

    Over all, at least for Cards, LLU has the slight edge in my opinion . . . I wouldn't kid anyone else about LLU being an "easy" program . . . you work hard . . . you argue less hard than USC - fine - but it's no walk in the park
  12. GIJOES

    GIJOES

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    78
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Over all, at least for Cards, LLU has the slight edge in my opinion . . . I wouldn't kid anyone else about LLU being an "easy" program . . . you work hard . . . you argue less hard than USC - fine - but it's no walk in the park[/quote]

    No one walks in any park during their intern year at any program...well, most programs. Intern year is probably the most difficult time in anyones medical career, and when people don't think they are going to work hard during their intern year, they are either lost or not willing to accept the hardship. This being said, when people ask about which residency is better, we just give our opinions, but the applicant is going to pick what is best for them, regardless of what we say (many other factors in their life is never mentioned on this thread, and we can't put ourselves in their shoes). So again, MY OPINION ONLY. Good luck
  13. red ruby

    red ruby Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    34
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    GIJOES: Why is it that you state individuals who cannot match at fellowships at USC would have a hard time matching at all? I thought most fellowship training programs would recognize the diversity of the pathology at USC and therefore, you would have a good chance of getting fellowship. Can you clarify this for me? Having better chances for fellowship is one of the reasons I am considering USC. Thank you!
  14. orientedtoself

    orientedtoself resident

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    826
    SDN 5+ Year Member
  15. GIJOES

    GIJOES

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    78
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member

    1st check out this site on what fellowship PD's want for fellowship: But I think RESEARCH is a bigger factor than what they rank in this article.

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/atta...9&d=1198796965


    As a PGY-2 from California, I have colleagues who felt the diversity of training/pathology at USC would give them an advantage, however, when applying for CARDS and GI ONLY (other fellowships you will have a good chance bec less competitive), most of my friends had to apply 2 times and still did not match, so they switched to Pulm/CCM or Endocrine and matched in So. CA.

    Also, for Cards and GI, ~7-10 residents apply/yr for each (every year varies), but there are only a few spots internally, so when you apply to the other programs in CA, just like USC, most other places take some of their own, leaving only 1 or if lucky 2 spots from outside programs. Usually, a couple residents from Stanford and UCSF who were originally from So.CA do their residency up north bec of the name/prestige factor, want to come back to So.CA. So with the 1-2 open spots per University program, fellowship PD's usually pick the big name school applicants (because in turn, they probably have higher board scores, most likely have more research [most likely why they got into a big name program in the 1st place], and definately get LOR's from big wigs in Cards/GI), so in turn, they have a better advantage in matching for outside spots over a USC applicant. UCLA, UCSF, UCSD will take the Stanford/UCSF/UCLA/UCSD applicant over the USC applicant (if they don't have as much research publications and presentations) for the 1-2 spots. This isn't to say it can't be done from USC, but just realize you need a lot of research publications and presentations to be very competitive for Cards/GI, otherwise other fellowships are relatively easy to get.

    Again, this is speaking from experience of my friends that are at UCLA, Stanford, UCSD, UCSF and USC.

    I also have friends at LLU, Kaiser, Cedars, Harbor-UCLA and Olive view, and usually they take internal applicants as does USC, but if 10 people interested in cards/gi from USC, having only 2-3 internal spots, leaves many people that don't match. Also applying to LLU, Kaiser, Cedars, Harbor-UCLA from USC has a slim chance of getting into their program since they also take from within.

    GOOD LUCK!!
  16. gng930

    gng930

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    77
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Interesting info GIJOE. What would you say about USC grads who are willing to apply out of state for Cards? Are a lot of people not getting Cards simply because they don't want to go outside of (southern) CA?
  17. GIJOES

    GIJOES

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    78
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member

    I can only speak for my friends (most only applied to CA programs and told me if they don't match in CA, they are not willing to be away from family, so I guess cards was not really their passion), but in general, you are exactly right in saying that most people who match in So.CA, don't want to leave, so they only apply to surrounding states like AZ, Nevada and all of CA.

    I can't comment about matching outside of CA from USC because I don't know, sorry. I can only speculate that USC is still a Univ program so if you apply broadly, you have a chance of getting interviews, but again, only a guess.
  18. twizzlers

    twizzlers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    California
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Any thoughts on whether to rank USC or UC Irvine higher based on fellowship opportunities? I don't think either will be my #1, but I can't decide which one to place higher. (Didn't apply to Loma Linda)
  19. DJ LACTULOSE

    DJ LACTULOSE internal medicine

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    189
    Status:
    Post Doc
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    i would go with irvine. usc just seems like there are too many unknowns about what it'll be like next year.

Share This Page


About the ads