USMLE score for top programs

[JimmyB123]

What type of Step 1 score are generally top EM programs (Cook County, Emory, LAC-USC) looking for from DO applicants?

On a related note, what type of Step 1 score for more middle tier programs (Buffalo, Drexel, etc).

Once again, this is for a DO applicant! Thanks

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[Lysinee]

The higher, the better.

 

[deleted547339]

I don't know that the three programs listed require board scores that high....didn't cook county not fill a few years ago, or am I mistaken?

 

[JuliaJulia]

This is a really hard questions to answer because even with >250 as a DO, you may not get those top tier interviews. It's really unpredictable as a DO - you may get interviews from some 'reach' programs but not from your 'back-ups'. So it's important to score as high as you can on the Step exams and apply broadly. Good luck, you can do it!

 

[JimmyB123]

The higher, the better.

I know but can you give an average range. I've heard 250 but that sounds absurdly high

 

[Lysinee]

With a 240+ you have a chance at some of the better academic programs. Apply to all DO friendly programs as others have suggested. It's hard to give a number because program directors look at applicant as whole than just a Step 1 score. Also, it helps if you have strong research, good letters, etc.

 

[dav86]

I know but can you give an average range. I've heard 250 but that sounds absurdly high

240s-250s

Trust me, I am a DO and I have been through two rank list days. Typical board scores for DO applicants that are ranked well are 240-250s. Doesn't mean you can't match into these programs or be ranked well if you don't have scores like that. It just means the avg scores for people that do match is around that. I recommend taking both USMLE 1 and 2 and doing as well as you can. Many other parts of your application are included in the rank process. Interview day. SLOE, MSPE, etc. Having the complete package is important.

Also looking at the program's website and seeing who has matched in past classes. Some programs don't take DOs or rarely do. Again doesn't mean that you can't match into these programs but the chances are much slimmer.

 

[Druggernaut]

Some will get no interviews at "top" places with ludicrously high USMLE 1 & 2 scores, some will get them with average scores. Your application isn't just a number.

And there are probably some places that will not interview a DO regardless of what they're bringing to the table, so you have to apply smart. But if you have a select few dream programs, you might as well apply to them regardless. The worst thing that could happen is you lose a couple bucks.

 

[InFactotum]

Silly question. If you haven't taken the test, score as high as you can, no matter the speciality. Studying isn't just for getting into a top residency after all. If you have taken it, you're stuck with the score.

As a DO your chances at USC are LOW (they've taken about 3 EVER), cook is better, dunno Emory, harbor has taken 1 EVER, highland 1 EVER, getting the picture? Advocate Christ I think has one right now that scored top 1%, but that's a program that literally enjoys displaying their scores on their website.

Fact is, if you want to go to the program, apply. It's a tiny cost with potentially huge reward. If you want to go to a top program as a DO you need to rotate there. I've rotated at a few top tier programs now, the residents that are DOs without fail have also rotated there as fourth years. And, as someone else said, there's much much more to your app than a score. The score is just something to get your app not screened out into the instant reject list.

This whole thing at times feels very random. I do not have top tier scores. If I was an MD I'd have probably just barely upper 1/3 scores (gpa and boards), but do have two SLOEs with honors from well known places. I applied BROADLY (70+), and have 14 invites, mostly to mid tier and a few upper tier programs, and my classmates, some with higher scores, are having some difficulty. I attribute this to my SLOEs and lots of apps. Good luck as a DO for top tier places, you'll need it in addition to hard work.

 

[DrDrummer]

Advocate Christ I think has one right now that scored top 1%, but that's a program that literally enjoys displaying their scores on their website.

Wow. That is... interesting. Definitely didn't notice that when reviewing their website before.

To OP: As someone said above, your application is more than a number. Distinguish yourself in other ways than the USMLE, because (as is the nature of tests) there will be a lot of people that look like you in that regard, or you'll have to score exceptionally high rather than just high. Get involved with research, organized EM, and pwn your clinical rotations. Develop relationships with faculty who will help you achieve what you want to achieve. You'll do fine on Step, and those things will get you interviews.

P.S. They also have a DO graduate who scored in the top 12th percent, I learned.

 

[InFactotum]

Wow. That is... interesting. Definitely didn't notice that when reviewing their website before.

Fun to look at, right? Haven't received my rejection from them yet... stop toying with me and just tell me "InFactotum, your score is not worthy of advocate christ as we are not comfortable publishing it on our website."

 

[alpinism]

Silly question. If you haven't taken the test, score as high as you can, no matter the speciality. Studying isn't just for getting into a top residency after all. If you have taken it, you're stuck with the score.

As a DO your chances at USC are LOW (they've taken about 3 EVER), cook is better, dunno Emory, harbor has taken 1 EVER, highland 1 EVER, getting the picture? Advocate Christ I think has one right now that scored top 1%, but that's a program that literally enjoys displaying their scores on their website.

Fact is, if you want to go to the program, apply. It's a tiny cost with potentially huge reward. If you want to go to a top program as a DO you need to rotate there. I've rotated at a few top tier programs now, the residents that are DOs without fail have also rotated there as fourth years. And, as someone else said, there's much much more to your app than a score. The score is just something to get your app not screened out into the instant reject list.

This whole thing at times feels very random. I do not have top tier scores. If I was an MD I'd have probably just barely upper 1/3 scores (gpa and boards), but do have two SLOEs with honors from well known places. I applied BROADLY (70+), and have 14 invites, mostly to mid tier and a few upper tier programs, and my classmates, some with higher scores, are having some difficulty. I attribute this to my SLOEs and lots of apps. Good luck as a DO for top tier places, you'll need it in addition to hard work.

Great Advice.

 

[DrDrummer]

Fun to look at, right? Haven't received my rejection from them yet... stop toying with me and just tell me "InFactotum, your score is not worthy of advocate christ as we are not comfortable publishing it on our website."

One of the things that bothers me about that is that they don't advertise everyone's scores on there-- meaning, in effect, that they do advertise the scores of those whose percentages aren't included as being relatively lower.

I'm not sure whether this says something about one person at the residency who is making website decisions or the entire organization, but I'd love to hear from someone at the program what the rationale is here-- if it's to dissuade people who don't meet some arbitrary bar from applying and wasting their time/money, then fine, but if it's just to advertise the test performance of their residents (on a test not really relevant beyond P/F) than it says something about the mindset of the program leadership and their values.

 

[dav86]

One of the things that bothers me about that is that they don't advertise everyone's scores on there-- meaning, in effect, that they do advertise the scores of those whose percentages aren't included as being relatively lower.

I'm not sure whether this says something about one person at the residency who is making website decisions or the entire organization, but I'd love to hear from someone at the program what the rationale is here-- if it's to dissuade people who don't meet some arbitrary bar from applying and wasting their time/money, then fine, but if it's just to advertise the test performance of their residents (on a test not really relevant beyond P/F) than it says something about the mindset of the program leadership and their values.

Christ has always been big on numbers. It is a phenomenal program, I think the best in Chicago, but fairly under the radar when compared to other big names in the city. They are a high volume, high trauma, high acuity shop. Around 100,000 pts/yr in a rather small/cramped ED. It has a gritty feel to it. Great US program. Great group of EM residents. It would be interesting to have someone from the program chime in about the stats they post on their website. Multiple people top 1% on USMLE. Now if that is truly top 1% that would be like all over 270 and higher, which I guess is possible but doesn't seem likely. They are known to care a lot about numbers and they have the best or one of the inservice avgs in the US, but still everyone top 1% seems a little far fetched. I know one of the 3rd year residents. They were great in medical school but I am almost positive they didn't score 270+ on USMLE. Again interested to hear from an actual resident who participates in their rank day to confirm actual top 1%ers. Regardless though, great program that goes relatively under the radar. High recommend people look there

 

[JimmyB123]

Wow. That is... interesting. Definitely didn't notice that when reviewing their website before.

To OP: As someone said above, your application is more than a number. Distinguish yourself in other ways than the USMLE, because (as is the nature of tests) there will be a lot of people that look like you in that regard, or you'll have to score exceptionally high rather than just high. Get involved with research, organized EM, and pwn your clinical rotations. Develop relationships with faculty who will help you achieve what you want to achieve. You'll do fine on Step, and those things will get you interviews.

P.S. They also have a DO graduate who scored in the top 12th percent, I learned.

Yeah, I figured that your board score is only one aspect of your application but this is all still pretty surprising. I have friends with these board scores who are going for ortho, derm, nsurg (but then again, they are not DOs). Good to know though.

 

[Druggernaut]

Christ has always been big on numbers. It is a phenomenal program, I think the best in Chicago, but fairly under the radar when compared to other big names in the city. They are a high volume, high trauma, high acuity shop. Around 100,000 pts/yr in a rather small/cramped ED. It has a gritty feel to it. Great US program. Great group of EM residents. It would be interesting to have someone from the program chime in about the stats they post on their website. Multiple people top 1% on USMLE. Now if that is truly top 1% that would be like all over 270 and higher, which I guess is possible but doesn't seem likely. They are known to care a lot about numbers and they have the best or one of the inservice avgs in the US, but still everyone top 1% seems a little far fetched. I know one of the 3rd year residents. They were great in medical school but I am almost positive they didn't score 270+ on USMLE. Again interested to hear from an actual resident who participates in their rank day to confirm actual top 1%ers. Regardless though, great program that goes relatively under the radar. High recommend people look there

I'm guessing whoever wrote those "top 1%" comments was misinterpreting the 99 two digit score as being the 99th percentile, which it's not.

It only serves to make them look silly, not impressive. I'm not sure I'd trust a place that doesn't even understand how to read a score report to teach me to practice medicine.

 

[JimmyB123]

Silly question. If you haven't taken the test, score as high as you can, no matter the speciality. Studying isn't just for getting into a top residency after all. If you have taken it, you're stuck with the score.

As a DO your chances at USC are LOW (they've taken about 3 EVER), cook is better, dunno Emory, harbor has taken 1 EVER, highland 1 EVER, getting the picture? Advocate Christ I think has one right now that scored top 1%, but that's a program that literally enjoys displaying their scores on their website.

Fact is, if you want to go to the program, apply. It's a tiny cost with potentially huge reward. If you want to go to a top program as a DO you need to rotate there. I've rotated at a few top tier programs now, the residents that are DOs without fail have also rotated there as fourth years. And, as someone else said, there's much much more to your app than a score. The score is just something to get your app not screened out into the instant reject list.

This whole thing at times feels very random. I do not have top tier scores. If I was an MD I'd have probably just barely upper 1/3 scores (gpa and boards), but do have two SLOEs with honors from well known places. I applied BROADLY (70+), and have 14 invites, mostly to mid tier and a few upper tier programs, and my classmates, some with higher scores, are having some difficulty. I attribute this to my SLOEs and lots of apps. Good luck as a DO for top tier places, you'll need it in addition to hard work.

Is it worth it to try developing relationships with the faculty right now? I'm working in the ER at one of those "top tier" places you mentioned, but just as a scribe/tech...not on a rotation or anything. Or is that just unnecessarily premature?

Finally, it's really tough to get a grasp of which programs are "more competitive" or which programs are "less competitive." You mentioned mid tier and upper tier programs, but how did you figure out which tier programs were in? Is there published data on board scores to help you make such conclusions, or more just word of mouth? This is all coming from someone who is pretty new to the EM world - I just know the BIG names, but that doesn't really help all that much.

 

[DJEMDOC]

230-250

 

[DocEspana]

That is exactly what it is. Silly misinterpretation of the 2 digit score.

Then I scored "in the top 1%" twice and I didn't get anywhere close to a 270.

Or 260. Or 250.

 

[MSmentor018]

Silly question. If you haven't taken the test, score as high as you can, no matter the speciality. Studying isn't just for getting into a top residency after all. If you have taken it, you're stuck with the score.

As a DO your chances at USC are LOW (they've taken about 3 EVER), cook is better, dunno Emory, harbor has taken 1 EVER, highland 1 EVER, getting the picture? Advocate Christ I think has one right now that scored top 1%, but that's a program that literally enjoys displaying their scores on their website.

Fact is, if you want to go to the program, apply. It's a tiny cost with potentially huge reward. If you want to go to a top program as a DO you need to rotate there. I've rotated at a few top tier programs now, the residents that are DOs without fail have also rotated there as fourth years. And, as someone else said, there's much much more to your app than a score. The score is just something to get your app not screened out into the instant reject list.

This whole thing at times feels very random. I do not have top tier scores. If I was an MD I'd have probably just barely upper 1/3 scores (gpa and boards), but do have two SLOEs with honors from well known places. I applied BROADLY (70+), and have 14 invites, mostly to mid tier and a few upper tier programs, and my classmates, some with higher scores, are having some difficulty. I attribute this to my SLOEs and lots of apps. Good luck as a DO for top tier places, you'll need it in addition to hard work.

been through the same 5 yrs ago. above is probably the most accurate advice
I'd only add that if you rotated, you should get a courtesy interview even if you wouldn't have received one based on your app. it may just be a carrot on the stick but at least you'll bypass the numbers and being a DO game. if anything use it as a practice interview and ask for advice for future interviews. on the other hand if you did well on rotations, maybe you'll be the first. someone has to! good luck

 

[DocEspana]

been through the same 5 yrs ago. above is probably the most accurate advice
I'd only add that if you rotated, you should get a courtesy interview even if you wouldn't have received one based on your app. it may just be a carrot on the stick but at least you'll bypass the numbers and being a DO game. if anything use it as a practice interview and ask for advice for future interviews. on the other hand if you did well on rotations, maybe you'll be the first. someone has to! good luck

I will say that while your advice is definitely accurate got for almost all people, I would warn not to *expect* an interview if the program has not taken a DO ever or in a while. I had two programs (names not given because I don't want to hate on them, just use them as an example) that were both very desirable places with famous faculty. Both wrote me SLORs after my rotation. And at my interviews elsewhere I heard rave reviews about what they said (I never read them).

But neither place offered me an interview despite stellar SLORs. And as was pointed out to me; one program which switched directors about 7-8 years ago and stopped taking DOs abruptly had written that "if I were planning to take any DOs to my program I would take this one".

For some people it just is a matter of principle. Nice carrots for studious rotators aren't a given. Though they are the norm in most situations.

 

[JimmyB123]

I will say that while your advice is definitely accurate got for almost all people, I would warn not to *expect* an interview if the program has not taken a DO ever or in a while. I had two programs (names not given because I don't want to hate on them, just use them as an example) that were both very desirable places with famous faculty. Both wrote me SLORs after my rotation. And at my interviews elsewhere I heard rave reviews about what they said (I never read them).

But neither place offered me an interview despite stellar SLORs. And as was pointed out to me; one program which switched directors about 7-8 years ago and stopped taking DOs abruptly had written that "if I were planning to take any DOs to my program I would take this one".

For some people it just is a matter of principle. Nice carrots for studious rotators aren't a given. Though they are the norm in most situations.

So you're saying all the "good" EM programs won't take a DO? And if they do, you have to be the cream of the crop?

 

[Druggernaut]

So you're saying all the "good" EM programs won't take a DO? And if they do, you have to be the cream of the crop?

That's not exactly what he's saying. If you apply to Vanderbilt as a DO, you're wasting your money. Burn it, give it to me, donate it to a homeless shelter, whatever, but they're all going to give you essentially the same chance at matching there as if you paid the application fee: 0%. LAC+USC? Loooong shot, but crazier things have happened. Indiana? It's feasible if you're good. In-N-Out Burger? If you're ready for In-N-Out Burger, In-N-Out Burger will present itself to you.

But you'll have to have some way of convincing a "top" program that you're the "cream of the crop" kind of by definition of them being a "top program." Not necessarily by your USMLE scores, but you should plan on doing as well on them as possible.

 

[fahimaz7]

Wow. That is... interesting. Definitely didn't notice that when reviewing their website before.

To OP: As someone said above, your application is more than a number. Distinguish yourself in other ways than the USMLE, because (as is the nature of tests) there will be a lot of people that look like you in that regard, or you'll have to score exceptionally high rather than just high. Get involved with research, organized EM, and pwn your clinical rotations. Develop relationships with faculty who will help you achieve what you want to achieve. You'll do fine on Step, and those things will get you interviews.

P.S. They also have a DO graduate who scored in the top 12th percent, I learned.

Top 12%tile? What does that even mean. I don't remember my scores coming with anything like that.

 

[MSmentor018]

Both wrote me SLORs after my rotation. And at my interviews elsewhere I heard rave reviews about what they said (I never read them).

But neither place offered me an interview despite stellar SLORs. And as was pointed out to me; one program which switched directors about 7-8 years ago and stopped taking DOs abruptly had written that "if I were planning to take any DOs to my program I would take this one".

For some people it just is a matter of principle. Nice carrots for studious rotators aren't a given. Though they are the norm in most situations.

ouch, well something like that happened to me too. I rotated, honored, came back for the interview and they said "wait, you're a DO student? we can't take you guys without the traditional rotating internship. sorry we didn't know". next year res42 was established.

that whole 'top tier", "best program" is just advertising and academic ego stroking. go where it is good for you whether it's location, people, family, fellowship.....etc. don't let the name brands sway you. you will graduate, you'll get a job.

 

[DocEspana]

So you're saying all the "good" EM programs won't take a DO? And if they do, you have to be the cream of the crop?

no. not that all will. Only that be aware that some really good programs will love YOU but not interview you on principle. but its program specific.

 

[MSmentor018]

no. not that all will. Only that be aware that some really good programs will love YOU but not interview you on principle. but its program specific.

unfortunate but true
wonder will the reverse scenario happen when MD students cross over into DO residencies once the merger is complete