USNEWS New Best Job for 2016

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jokersmiles

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incoming influx of new dental schools.
 
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Orthodontists are #1

and general dentist comes in #2

oral maxillofacial surgeons at #10

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-best-jobs

what do you guys think?

Personally, I'd prefer it if we were in the mid 20s-40s. Not high enough to grab everyone's attention, but still decent enough that dentistry is awesome.
Ortho has nowhere to go but down (on the rankings), and I worry general dentistry may follow.

OMFS is in a nice position at #10; high barrier to entry; meaningful work; good compensation.
Prostho is where I wish general dentistry were; at #30.
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
Personally, I'd prefer it if we were in the mid 20s-40s. Not high enough to grab everyone's attention, but still decent enough that dentistry is awesome.
Ortho has nowhere to go but down (on the rankings), and I worry general dentistry may follow.

OMFS is in a nice position at #10; high barrier to entry; meaningful work; good compensation.
Prostho is where I wish general dentistry were; at #30.

I get what you mean it draws too much attention..... but at the same time I don't think many people
are willing to go to 4 years of graduate school and pay high tuition just cause of a rank, especially
if they think working in mouths all day is a bad thing.

...and hopefully this doesn't cause more dental school openings either.
 
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I get what you mean it draws too much attention..... but at the same time I don't think many people
are willing to go to 4 years of graduate school and pay high tuition just cause of a rank, especially
if they think working in mouths all day is a bad thing.

...and hopefully this doesn't cause more dental school openings either.

Do you hear that? Sounds like the doors of Touro opening.
 
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Let people join the profession because of a rank they see on a website..

They will hate their jobs and will be terrible at it if they have no passion.
 
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Let people join the profession because of a rank they see on a website..

They will hate their jobs and will be terrible at it if they have no passion.

Alternatively, they will enjoy their relatively low stress and high paying job which is a luxury 99% of the population working jobs they aren't passionate about anyway don't have. The reality is very few people are 'passionate' about their occupation, especially after doing it several years.
 
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Alternatively, they will enjoy their relatively low stress and high paying job which is a luxury 99% of the population working jobs they aren't passionate about anyway don't have. The reality is very few people are 'passionate' about their occupation, especially after doing it several years.

Relatively low stress? I don't know what you are comparing dentistry to, but I would not consider it low stress.
 
Relatively low stress? I don't know what you are comparing dentistry to, but I would not consider it low stress.

Don't question him. He only got a 14 on his DAT. As far as I'm concerned, he barely understands English.
 
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Relatively low stress? I don't know what you are comparing dentistry to, but I would not consider it low stress.

Unless you're an oral surgeon or something, it's pretty low stress. That's considered one of the primary benefits of the occupation.

Don't question him. He only got a 14 on his DAT. As far as I'm concerned, he barely understands English.

My TS was a 15 to be fair
 
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Unless you're an oral surgeon or something, it's pretty low stress. That's considered one of the primary benefits of the occupation.



My TS was a 15 to be fair
I think that's more of a perception to be honest. I've never actually heard or read about a dentist that thinks this is the case.

http://www.dentaleconomics.com/arti...nout-in-dentistry-the-cause-and-the-cure.html
http://www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/stress-in-dentistry-it-could-kill-you/
http://www.dentistryiq.com/articles/2011/05/stress-management.html

A google search says that that almost every survey has dentists listed in the top 50 for most stressful jobs.

But I am not going to argue because everyone experiences stress so differently.
 
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I think that's more of a perception to be honest. I've never actually heard or read about a dentist that thinks this is the case.

http://www.dentaleconomics.com/arti...nout-in-dentistry-the-cause-and-the-cure.html
http://www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/stress-in-dentistry-it-could-kill-you/
http://www.dentistryiq.com/articles/2011/05/stress-management.html

A google search says that that almost every survey has dentists listed in the top 50 for most stressful jobs.

But I am not going to argue because everyone experiences stress so differently.

Perhaps you're right and it is just perception. Then again if there was a survey for each one of the hundreds if not thousands of generic office/corporate jobs with worse hours/pay/growth opportunities, I'm willing to bet dentistry would be looking a whole lot sweeter in comparison.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
But I am not going to argue because everyone experiences stress so differently.

This.
Personally, the strategy I employ is to identify the root causes of stress and eliminate them.
 
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Yes once you're a dentist, its low stress. But getting to that point is high stress. Taking tough pre requisite classes, studying to take a tough DAT, making sure you volunteer and shadow and other EC activities, and then once being in dental school enduring a tough curriculum. Ya, it might get a few guys into the field that wouldn't before, but I have heard so many guys say they're gonna do dentistry only to fade out eventually. Dentistry will always be a luxury job.
 
Absolutely
I have an idea if you write the letter..
Dear so and so,
This kid made a wise choice and studied my own material, the famous Feralis note. Accept him.

Sincerely,
Feralis the legend.
 
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Surprised by this considering those "Dentistry is SATURATED" posts on here over the past few months.
 
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Surprised by this considering those "Dentistry is SATURATED" posts on here over the past few months.

Dentistry is saturated which limits my potential income to only $150,000. Dentistry world problems. (I am exaggerating)
 
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Dentistry is saturated which limits my potential income to only $150,000. Dentistry world problems. (I am exaggerating)
If you're in debt 400-500k then making only 150k is a bit of a problem. Especially considering you don't actually take home 150k the first few years after taxes
 
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If you're in debt 400-500k then making only 150k is a bit of a problem. Especially considering you don't actually take home 150k the first few years after taxes
Its true. Definitely true and that seems to be the biggest weight. It seems, though, that they're trying to come out with more loan forgiveness and loan payment plans to make it easier. I could be wrong though and just misinformed. Im not an expert on it
 
If you're in debt 400-500k then making only 150k is a bit of a problem. Especially considering you don't actually take home 150k the first few years after taxes
If you are lucky to make 150k before taxes right out, I would say it is still worth it even with the 4-5k a month loan repayment (assuming 10 year repayment). That is just me. I can deal with living on a low salary if it means I can practice dentistry. 120k may make me consider PAYE though.
 
Its true. Definitely true and that seems to be the biggest weight. It seems, though, that they're trying to come out with more loan forgiveness and loan payment plans to make it easier. I could be wrong though and just misinformed. Im not an expert on it

It is much easier on those income based repayment plans. You end up paying much more than a standard 10 year plan (like 700-800k on a 400-500k loan) in 20 years though. However, getting your debt forgiven isn't always the best way to go about things.
 
This is not an attack on what anyone here has said I just wanted to clear up some possible misconceptions. I hear a lot of talk on SDN stating that IBR or PAYE are great options if you're debt loads are really high, as is the case with some of the most expensive private schools where students typically take out over $500K+ in principal on their loans (this doesn't include interest that accrues while you're in school.) It seems like a great plan at first. I can pay only 10% of my income for 20-25 years and all of my remaining debt will be forgiven, that way my huge debt load really won't pose a substantial financial threat. I just wanted to point out that after 20-25 years any remaining debt, while it will be forgiven, will be taxed as income. So, lets say a student who takes out $500K in student loans graduates and is making $150K salary right out of dental school (a generous estimate.) That student would be paying approximately $15K a year in repayment. But, we can't forget to take interest into account. On a $500K note at an average interest rate of 6.34% (an average of the two federal interest rates) your loan will accumulate $31.7K in interest the first year. So, you pay down $15K of that interest and the loan increases $15.7K the first year. But, because you pay interest on your interest the loan increases each year. Basically by the end of a 20 year period your will loan will now have increased to ~$1.15 million. This would be fine if the loan was truly "forgiven" but its not. You have to pay income tax on that money. So if you made $150K the year you made your last payment you would've made (as far as the IRS is concerned) $1.3 million that last year. Lets be very generous (especially with the prospect of tax increases that Sanders is proposing) and say you only pay 33% tax on that money. You would now be the proud owner of a $429K note due to the IRS at the end of your 20 year period, ending up with almost as much as you originally took out in principal. And I am guessing the IRS is far less accommodating than Federal Student Aid will be.

Here's the link stating that any forgiven balance will be taxed as income (question 25 at the end of the paragraph): https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/default/files/income-driven-repayment-q-and-a.pdf

Here's an amortization sheet I created showing the buildup of the interest
 

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This is not an attack on what anyone here has said I just wanted to clear up some possible misconceptions. I hear a lot of talk on SDN stating that IBR or PAYE are great options if you're debt loads are really high, as is the case with some of the most expensive private schools where students typically take out over $500K+ in principal on their loans (this doesn't include interest that accrues while you're in school.) It seems like a great plan at first. I can pay only 10% of my income for 20-25 years and all of my remaining debt will be forgiven, that way my huge debt load really won't pose a substantial financial threat. I just wanted to point out that after 20-25 years any remaining debt, while it will be forgiven, will be taxed as income. So, lets say a student who takes out $500K in student loans graduates and is making $150K salary right out of dental school (a generous estimate.) That student would be paying approximately $15K a year in repayment. But, we can't forget to take interest into account. On a $500K note at an average interest rate of 6.34% (an average of the two federal interest rates) your loan will accumulate $31.7K in interest the first year. So, you pay down $15K of that interest and the loan increases $15.7K the first year. But, because you pay interest on your interest the loan increases each year. Basically by the end of a 20 year period your will loan will now have increased to ~$1.15 million. This would be fine if the loan was truly "forgiven" but its not. You have to pay income tax on that money. So if you made $150K the year you made your last payment you would've made (as far as the IRS is concerned) $1.3 million that last year. Lets be very generous (especially with the prospect of tax increases that Sanders is proposing) and say you only pay 33% tax on that money. You would now be the proud owner of a $429K note due to the IRS at the end of your 20 year period, ending up with almost as much as you originally took out in principal. And I am guessing the IRS is far less accommodating than Federal Student Aid will be.

Here's the link stating that any forgiven balance will be taxed as income (question 25 at the end of the paragraph): https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/default/files/income-driven-repayment-q-and-a.pdf

Here's an amortization sheet I created showing the buildup of the interest
You bring up the most important point when talking about PAYE. The tax bomb. It will be enormous, but I feel like it can be managed if you save money every month for the tax bomb (from my calculations about 2,000 a month). You would still be paying less than the traditional 30 year plan in the end. It may even help if you invest the money you set aside every month so you have some left over after the tax bomb is paid. Would you say it is a roughly good plan if I choose that route?
 
You bring up the most important point when talking about PAYE. The tax bomb. It will be enormous, but I feel like it can be managed if you save money every month for the tax bomb (from my calculations about 2,000 a month). You would still be paying less than the traditional 30 year plan in the end. It may even help if you invest the money you set aside every month so you have some left over after the tax bomb is paid. Would you say it is a roughly good plan if I choose that route?
Thats would definitely lessen the sting once the taxes came rolling in. And I think that would be a great idea sticking the money into a stable and predictable investment. But of course you would be paying income tax on any increase that you saw from your investment. Also, assuming someone were to take out a $500K loan all of the estimates I gave were conservative. You would probably end up with a larger tax load at the end, slightly higher interest rate, and probably lower payments due to a lower income, at least initially. With that kind of loan you would still be looking at ~$900K in total.
 
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Thats would definitely lessen the sting once the taxes came rolling in. And I think that would be a great idea sticking the money into a stable and predictable investment. But of course you would be paying income tax on any increase that you saw from your investment. Also, assuming someone were to take out a $500K loan all of the estimates I gave were conservative. You would probably end up with a larger tax load at the end, slightly higher interest rate, and probably lower payments due to a lower income, at least initially. With that kind of loan you would still be looking at ~$900K in total.

Gotcha, thanks for the input. Financing my dental education is still up in the air because my parents want to help me a lot and I still might get into state school. I might not even need PAYE in the end, but I feel like it is always good to think about all the possibilities. Thanks again
 
This is not an attack on what anyone here has said I just wanted to clear up some possible misconceptions. I hear a lot of talk on SDN stating that IBR or PAYE are great options if you're debt loads are really high, as is the case with some of the most expensive private schools where students typically take out over $500K+ in principal on their loans (this doesn't include interest that accrues while you're in school.) It seems like a great plan at first. I can pay only 10% of my income for 20-25 years and all of my remaining debt will be forgiven, that way my huge debt load really won't pose a substantial financial threat. I just wanted to point out that after 20-25 years any remaining debt, while it will be forgiven, will be taxed as income. So, lets say a student who takes out $500K in student loans graduates and is making $150K salary right out of dental school (a generous estimate.) That student would be paying approximately $15K a year in repayment. But, we can't forget to take interest into account. On a $500K note at an average interest rate of 6.34% (an average of the two federal interest rates) your loan will accumulate $31.7K in interest the first year. So, you pay down $15K of that interest and the loan increases $15.7K the first year. But, because you pay interest on your interest the loan increases each year. Basically by the end of a 20 year period your will loan will now have increased to ~$1.15 million. This would be fine if the loan was truly "forgiven" but its not. You have to pay income tax on that money. So if you made $150K the year you made your last payment you would've made (as far as the IRS is concerned) $1.3 million that last year. Lets be very generous (especially with the prospect of tax increases that Sanders is proposing) and say you only pay 33% tax on that money. You would now be the proud owner of a $429K note due to the IRS at the end of your 20 year period, ending up with almost as much as you originally took out in principal. And I am guessing the IRS is far less accommodating than Federal Student Aid will be.

Here's the link stating that any forgiven balance will be taxed as income (question 25 at the end of the paragraph): https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/default/files/income-driven-repayment-q-and-a.pdf

Here's an amortization sheet I created showing the buildup of the interest

I loved what the USC financial aid coordinator said during interviews.... "At the 20 year mark you can refinance on your home to pay off the taxes on your debt"... I couldn't believe that is what they were seriously recommending. It's not paying off the debt at all.. it's simply shifting it from dental school to your home...
 
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I loved what the USC financial aid coordinator said during interviews.... "At the 20 year mark you can refinance on your home to pay off the taxes on your debt"... I couldn't believe that is what they were seriously recommending. It's not paying off the debt at all.. it's simply shifting it from dental school to your home...
Oh thank god I wasn't the only one to notice that. I almost busted up when he said that during the presentation hahaha especially when he was showing the spreadsheets
 
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if you are oral surgeon or something, it's pretty low stress. actually a google search says that almost every survey has dentists listed in the top 50 for most stressful jobs.Dentistry will always be a luxury job and stressable also but I have heard so many guys said that they're gonna do dentistry only to fade out eventually...
 
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