VA secretary lied

[Gastrapathy]

Dude was 82nd Airborne and the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and he has to lie about his service to one up a homeless guy? Asshat.

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[Red Lobster Actual]

For anyone reading that was behind the curve (like me), here's the news story...not sure if it's 100% accurate though...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/va-s...s-misstating-served-special/story?id=29174559

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Better article, explains his Ranger tab.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/23/robert-mcdonald-special-forces_n_6739184.html

 

[Shikima]

 

[sonofva]

STOLEN VALOR!!

 

[deleted480308]

Forgive the noobness of this....but airborne doesn't count?

 

[a gray man]

Forgive the noobness of this....but airborne doesn't count?

No.

Special forces=green beret

Special operations=USASOC/JSOC

Airborne=Airborne

 

[colbgw02]

Forgive the noobness of this....but airborne doesn't count?

Not at all. In fact, the Huffington Post article includes Rangers under special forces, which I think is inaccurate as well. Rangers are badasses, no doubt, but they're a traditional military unit/soldiers. When someone says special forces to me, I'm thinking of someone with a significant paramilitary traning. In the context of the Army, that means the Green Berets and Delta Force (and probably some other units that I've never heard of).

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Not at all. In fact, the Huffington Post article includes Rangers under special forces, which I think is inaccurate as well. Rangers are badasses, no doubt, but they're a traditional military unit/soldiers. When someone says special forces to me, I'm thinking of someone with a significant paramilitary traning. In the context of the Army, that means the Green Berets and Delta Force (and probably some other units that I've never heard of).

I was under the impression that 75th Rangers were subordinate to USASOC?...

If wikipedia is to be trusted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Special_Operations_Command

 

[colbgw02]

Yeah, but most Rangers aren't in the regiment. So while the regiment may be SF, I wouldn't extend that to the more blanket term of Rangers.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Yeah, but most Rangers aren't in the regiment. So while the regiment may be SF, I wouldn't extend that to the more blanket term of Rangers.

Ah...cool. Awesome, thanks.

 

[sonofva]

Yeah, but most Rangers aren't in the regiment. So while the regiment may be SF, I wouldn't extend that to the more blanket term of Rangers.

There's a difference between having a ranger tab and being a ranger.

 

[a gray man]

Yeah, but most Rangers aren't in the regiment. So while the regiment may be SF, I wouldn't extend that to the more blanket term of Rangers.

Special Forces soldiers (green berets) go through many months of training to become SF qualified and earn their green berets. They are then assigned to one of the SF groups which is subordinate to USASOC.

Rangers (assigned to the 75th ranger regiment and USASOC) go through a 4 week indoctrination process and airborne school.

Rangers assigned to the 75th ranger regiment are special operations soldiers but not special forces.

 

[colbgw02]

There's a difference between having a ranger tab and being a ranger.

Maybe you have the personal experience and authority to make that distinction, but I wouldn't advise you to tell anyone with a Ranger tab that they're not a Ranger.

 

[sonofva]

Maybe you have the personal experience and authority to make that distinction, but I wouldn't advise you to tell anyone with a Ranger tab that they're not a Ranger.

ranger school (read: NOT RASP or serving in the regiment), is an ARMY leadership school focused on long range patrolling, that upon completion allows you to wear the short tab. the ranger regiment sends its leaders to ranger school. however, most anyone from the army, or other branches of service can attend ranger school, and afterward go back to doing their old job. after completion of ranger school you are ranger qualified. you are a Ranger if you go through rasp and serve (or have ever served) with the regiment. as an analogy, just because i have graduated from airborne school doesn't make me airborne infantry.

note: i do not accuse anyone of anything like this because its a douchey move, and ranger school is hard as s&*t. but just note there is a distinction

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Maybe you have the personal experience and authority to make that distinction, but I wouldn't advise you to tell anyone with a Ranger tab that they're not a Ranger.

They're not. What makes a ranger is the training cycle, deployment mission sets and op tempo, not the school. But really it's just a massive semantic argument. If they renamed the school to something like "LRP suckfest" or whatever, the confusion would go away.

Not to take away from anybody's achievements either, but if you want to be something different, you have to put yourself out there and try. If Ranger-qualified graduates of the course want to serve in a Ranger bat, they have to go through RIP/RASP like everybody else. Just like if guys assigned to an SF group as support want to be SF, they have to go through SFAS and the Q course. We gain nothing by self-deception.

Hope it doesn't sound preachy.

 

[colbgw02]

Honestly, I did not even realize that there was a distinction between "Ranger school" and the BAC-->RIP-->Ranger School pathway. When I think of "Ranger school", I'm thinking of the latter, which is why I was very confused when someone mentioned it being a 4 week course. I did not know that such a thing existed, but it sounds like you're telling me that anybody can just show up for 4 weeks, pass, and get to wear a Ranger tab? Has it always been this way? I have always just assumed that when I see a Ranger tab, the person has been through the whole shebang.

 

[sonofva]

Honestly, I did not even realize that there was a distinction between "Ranger school" and the BAC-->RIP-->Ranger School pathway. When I think of "Ranger school", I'm thinking of the latter, which is why I was very confused when someone mentioned it being a 4 week course. I did not know that such a thing existed, but it sounds like you're telling me that anybody can just show up for 4 weeks, pass, and get to wear a Ranger tab? Has it always been this way? I have always just assumed that when I see a Ranger tab, the person has been through the whole shebang.

Ranger school is 3 phases over 61 days. People from all branches of services are allowed to go, and from most types of jobs. They are even allowing the first group of women to attend now. It is a leadership school teaching advanced patrolling and small unit tactics. It's a lot more difficult than just showing up and passing, as <1% of the Army has a short tab. They are "ranger qualified"

When someone says they ARE a ranger it means they've gone through rasp and the whole deal, and are part of/have been part of the 75th ranger regiment. They wear the "scroll," but not necessarily the tab. That's why it's a big deal for those guys to be "tabbed and scrolled."

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Navy SEALS!

That's all.

 

[colbgw02]

Ranger school is 3 phases over 61 days. People from all branches of services are allowed to go, and from most types of jobs. They are even allowing the first group of women to attend now. It is a leadership school teaching advanced patrolling and small unit tactics. It's a lot more difficult than just showing up and passing, as <1% of the Army has a short tab. They are "ranger qualified"

I wasn't trying to be flippant, so sorry if it came across that way. I understand that ranger school is really difficult. I was just trying to emphasize the difference between what I have traditionally thought of as "ranger school" (meaning being airborne qualified, followed by RIP, and then ranger school "proper") and someone who only does the last of those three. I also did not realize that not all enlisted soldiers in the battalion are ranger qualified.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

I also did not realize that not all enlisted soldiers in the battalion are ranger qualified.

With respect to combat arms: privates are not ranger-qualified. They generally go through a training cycle and deployment before going to ranger school, thus they have real-world experience in combat operations beforehand. Graduating from ranger school is a requirement for E5 and above in the regiment; and if you fail school (aside from genuine injury), you get kicked out of the unit.

Also, you don't have to be airborne qualified to go to ranger school. You just do details on the DZ while everyone else jumps.

 

[colbgw02]

Also, you don't have to be airborne qualified to go to ranger school. You just do details on the DZ while everyone else jumps.

Another change, then. Airborne qualification used to be a prerequisite for Ranger school.

 

[Gastrapathy]

All interesting but doesn't change my assessment. Asshat.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

All interesting but doesn't change my assessment. Asshat.

Agreed

 

[ArmyTiger]

Navy SEALS!

That's all.

When you need someone to make a feature film about the black ops that they never officially did, there's only one organization to call...

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

Yeah that was *****ic but the media is more concerned about the lie than the fact that there was a homeless vet. Unless the homeless guy was also a liar.