Variability in forensic psychology

[rowdy2]

So Im curious to hear form forensic psychologists who work in the criminal justice system as to what kinds of actual work do you do? Currently Im an LPC in a group practice.

My main interest is how much control and influence do you have over deciding what you do, both on a daily basis and overall.

My background started in law enforcement, I went on to get my MS in Clinical Psych with a heavy emphasis on neuropsych assessment. I then worked as an LPC doing court ordered drug counseling, then doing forensic evals for probation (hated the extensive writing and heavy caseload, but enjoyed the assessment and case formulation). Right now Im doing counseling in a rural county jail, which I enjoy. I see the need for a lot of changes in this setting, but as an LPC, I feel my influence is limited.

Ideally, I would like to be able to have more influence the decision making and treatment process based on actual research, while not being beholden to an expectation of production and unrelated job requirements. Of course, there is no perfect situation, but Im wondering if pursuing a doctorate degree will allow me to have greater control over these areas, while maintaining more of the personal freedom I get out of being in a private practice.

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[erg923]

while not being beholden to an expectation of production and unrelated job requirements.

You might need to clarify what you mean by this. 1.) Obviously, all clinical jobs, outside of private practice, will need your to contribute to keeping the lights on, right? Productivity is/will be required no matter where you go. Productivity targets are necessary for this purpose. 2.) I wouldn't really expect "unrelated" job requirements in any position, but some openness to contributing to the larger organization via service, admin, research or promotion is often part of the job description itself. People who just want to "see patients and go home" are likely to be eclipsed by candidates that are open to more board service mission.

 

[PsyDr]

Any such setting is going to fund your position by public funds. Since you are in a nonrevenue producing, service industry, productivity is going to be a key part of of such jobs. Since the legal system runs on paperwork, there are going to be tons of unrelated admin things that are inherent to such a job.

Getting a doctorate from a reputable place will increase your influence though.

 

[StellaB]

It depends very much on the type of forensic setting. It is not really true that any forensic setting is going to be funded with public money, as many are funded with private revenue streams. For example, child custody evaluations are often out-of-pocket, collaborative divorce practices are totally out-of-pocket, as well as evaluations for tort cases, etc. In my state, individuals who are mandated to therapy as part of their probation/parole agreement have to pay out-of-pocket for it. We can debate the ethics of that, but the point is: it's not all public money. That said, any job is going to require productivity. Even if you're the owner of the practice, if you aren't being productive, you won't be bringing in funds. So I'm not sure what the question is in that regard.

As far as having more sway within your private practice - it's hard to say without knowing what type of practice you're talking about. I agree 100% with PSYDR that a doctorate from a reputable school will probably increase your influence. Just note the lost career-building time, potential cross-country move(s), and significant sacrifices that go along with that choice.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Reputation is a large part of forensic work. There are still plenty of hacks, but being able to have the I's dotted and T's crossed in regard to credentials is paramount.

 

[rowdy2]

Thanks for the replies. Certainly, there has to be some demonstrable results of any work, or no one will fund/hire you. By "production" I am referring to what I have experienced as a tendency of organizations to engage in the "keep em moving" factory production line mentality. Too often it seems the focus shifts from the question of, "are our actions of actual benefit to client, community, or other stakeholders; to more of, how many clients can we "serve" with the least amount of money. IMO, that type of thinking leads to limited effectiveness, burned out clinicians, increased organizational liability, and eventually is little more than an exercise in futility waiting for someone to pull the plug. Yes there are is always going to be job related tasks that are a pain, and political issues are like death and taxes. With that said, I am happy to help the organization as a whole in whatever capacity is useful. As I don't have an interest in child custody and divorce type of work, I have no illusions of getting rich.

Upon reflecting on my first post and what I just wrote, I am reminded of how I tend to have occasional periods of optimism in my normally jaded view of the current criminal justice/mental health system. Maybe I should just stick to the original plan of living comfortably off a small private practice which allows me to actually feel I am making a small difference (not my only income for those who may caution that it will be difficult), and enjoying my weekend hobbies. Retire at 50, and health permitting, finally allow myself to finish what I started before grad school, living cheaply in India and studying Buddhism.

On the other hand, if optimism does overwhelm my better judgement, I will definitely seek out the most reputable program I can get into.

 

[bmedclinic]

First off, this thread took a weird turn.
OP to your original question, part of my job is doing forensics. I see myself more as a clinical health psychologist who happens to work in a hospital setting that requires some forensic work, fwiw. I enjoyed outpatient forensics a lot more than inpatient, too.

I bet forensics overall is about 15-20% of my job.
I'd break that down in order of requiring the most time from me:
-managing forensic patients / difficult behaviors
- NGRI patient packets for increased privileges
-Temp Custody Evals
- CST evals
- occasionally, I get stuck with restoration therapy, but it occupies very little of my time.

Though it's not forensic in nature, what often goes with the above tends to be capacity evals as well, and those are relatively frequent, great experience, and can be quite interesting.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Administration vs practice is what I am hearing or maybe that is just my own bias because that is often the pulls I feel. As the practitioner, I find that i have limited input into systems issues. When I have worked as an administrator, I have been able to set the course and carry out my vision for how the service is delivered. Administrative positions don't necessitate being a psychologist, but it can help and I believe that our skill set provides us with the potential to be more effective than a non-psychologist in the same position. In short, if you want to change the way things are run, you have to be in charge.

 

[ForensicPhD]

First off, this thread took a weird turn.
OP to your original question, part of my job is doing forensics. I see myself more as a clinical health psychologist who happens to work in a hospital setting that requires some forensic work, fwiw. I enjoyed outpatient forensics a lot more than inpatient, too.
.

This sounds like an interesting combination of evals you get to do while in the hospital setting. What sort of hospital setting is it? I know inpt psych units can have forensic patients, so CST isn't uncommon. I'm curious about how the custody evals come into play here too? Sounds like a great mix!


To the OP: You can PM me if you want to discuss off the thread a bit, but I had a similar struggle and it was a tough decision to go back. But in short, a doctorate may give you more influence. It may not. It depends on the setting. I have friends who are LPCs that managed to work their way up to become directors of forensic settings, mostly out of luck (a PhD left, and the LPC happened to be the only one working there at the time and they needed to fill the spot quickly). I've also seen LPCs become directors and heads of units after many years of experience (30+). So it's not impossible. Would it be faster if you had your doctorate? Maybe. Some of the facilities I've worked at only wanted 1 doctorate clinician for every 6-10 LPCs because of cost. But is that chance worth returning to school? That is something you have to weigh.

 

[bmedclinic]

This sounds like an interesting combination of evals you get to do while in the hospital setting. What sort of hospital setting is it? I know inpt psych units can have forensic patients, so CST isn't uncommon. I'm curious about how the custody evals come into play here too? Sounds like a great mix!

So here s a little more of a breakdown. I work at a state hospital. I'm currently assigned to a unit (but if we hire another psychologist, I'll switch to being the hospital consultant, something that fits my background a little better). Anyways, my unit is about 1/6th forensic pts. The psychologists at our hospital all have forensic training, so we rotate evals as they come through. And, we also separately are rotated through the state system's assigned evaluation process at the main state hospital (where nearly all the Temp Custody Evals are done). If I'm too vague, my apologies- I worry that if I say too much more, it'll be pretty easy to publicly pin down where I work, and hence who I am.

You're welcome to PM me with more, I just try to pretend I'm a little anonymous on the internet

 

[ForensicPhD]

So here s a little more of a breakdown. I work at a state hospital. I'm currently assigned to a unit (but if we hire another psychologist, I'll switch to being the hospital consultant, something that fits my background a little better). Anyways, my unit is about 1/6th forensic pts. The psychologists at our hospital all have forensic training, so we rotate evals as they come through. And, we also separately are rotated through the state system's assigned evaluation process at the main state hospital (where nearly all the Temp Custody Evals are done). If I'm too vague, my apologies- I worry that if I say too much more, it'll be pretty easy to publicly pin down where I work, and hence who I am.

You're welcome to PM me with more, I just try to pretend I'm a little anonymous on the internet

This was super helpful, thank you!!