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I'm looking for information on 6yr vascular surgery residency programs, as...thanks
i think washu (amongst others) is thinking of doing this, although as the previous poster stated, not sure if they are doing it just yet.bongoking said:I'm looking for information on 6yr vascular surgery residency programs, as...thanks
Would this even be an option for a DO in an osteopathic general surgery residency considering vascular? What about getting into an ACGME vascular fellowship the old fashion way? Thanksbongoking said:I'm looking for information on 6yr vascular surgery residency programs, as...thanks
bongoking said:I'm looking for information on 6yr vascular surgery residency programs, as...thanks
Needleandthread said:I'm not sure there's a point in having an integrated vascular surgery residency. That would be like having a urogynecology, uveitis (ophthalmology), or pediatric radiology integrated residency. Few medical students know their interests that specifically. Why not just do general surgery and then do a fellowship? During general surgery, you can refine your interests more.
DO_Surgeon said:Would this even be an option for a DO in an osteopathic general surgery residency considering vascular? What about getting into an ACGME vascular fellowship the old fashion way? Thanks
I guess the only issue that I see with an integrated vascular program is the ability to get into the abdomen w/ things like mesenteric ischemia, and AAA's that aren't amenable to endovascular repair. Don't we get most of our exposure to the abdomen in the chief year?Pilot Doc said:I'd say it's more like having an integrated neurosurgery residency. Vascular has undergone an incredibly rapid change at my institution to an almost entirely non-operative specialty. As practiced at my program, it's skillset overlap with the rest of general surgery is rapidly diminishing. We joke about it being the second pathway to interventional radiology.
In seriousness, peripheral vascular work and AAAs's have gone substantially to stenting. Carotid's are rapidly heading that way as well. Dialysis access and amputations are the only big parts of their workload that aren't moving to percutaneous management.
I think a dedicated 5-year vascular residency a la ENT and ortho makes terrific sense.
SteadyEddy said:I guess the only issue that I see with an integrated vascular program is the ability to get into the abdomen w/ things like mesenteric ischemia, and AAA's that aren't amenable to endovascular repair. Don't we get most of our exposure to the abdomen in the chief year?
f_w said:While I am not a surgeon, I am under the impression that our VS fellows get plenty of 'abdominal time' during their open AAAs and dead gut cases. (and just like GS will call in VS if they run into a vascular issue, there is nothing wrong with VS asking GS or onc-surg to help out with some bowel work).
but I don't know if a Vascular Surgeon, who is a fully-trained and boarded General Surgeon, would necessary call General Surgery in to resect dead bowel if they were taking the patient for, say, a mesenteric bypass.
I guess it depends on the setting as I can envision the community-hospital model of "spreading the wealth" would require a call to General Surgery for that exact situation.
****** said:I haven't encountered that situation yet in my residency, but I don't know if a Vascular Surgeon, who is a fully-trained and boarded General Surgeon, would necessary call General Surgery in to resect dead bowel if they were taking the patient for, say, a mesenteric bypass.
I guess it depends on the setting as I can envision the community-hospital model of "spreading the wealth" would require a call to General Surgery for that exact situation.
Needleandthread said:I'm not sure there's a point in having an integrated vascular surgery residency. That would be like having a urogynecology, uveitis (ophthalmology), or pediatric radiology integrated residency. Few medical students know their interests that specifically. Why not just do general surgery and then do a fellowship? During general surgery, you can refine your interests more.
burberrybrit said:What is the current length of a vascular surgery fellowship? 2 years?
Misterioso said:I don't see much benefit in proposed "integrated" (read: shortcut) residencies for surgical training. Really what's one more year overall to be board certified and fully competent in both General Surgery and Vascular Surgery?
****** said:No. To qualify for an ACGME fellowship you've got to do an ACGME residency. Aren't there any AOA-sponsored general surgery fellowships? I could've sworn I came across a DO CTS residency in the past.
exlap said:Info from SVS on the pathways to vascular surgery certification.
http://www.vascularweb.org/_CONTRIB...Certificate/Primary_Certificate_Approved.html
Unfortunately, no listing of which programs are offering which pathway...
It appears the only way for someone to get into the 3+3 program right now is to continue at their existing institution as a vascular resident.
Have not heard about programs offering the 5 year primary certificate...
LaCirujana said:University of Michigan is discussing the 5y primary certificate (with an additional year of research/"academic development time" in the middle of the training--6y total) and will likely start their first "Vascular Surgery Intern" July 2007.
GuP said:this is all very interesting but can someone explain as to what the main difference between vascular surgeon and general surgeon is...thanks
Blue Rover said:In the United States and Canada, vascular surgery fellowship used to require previous general surgery training. This could be accomplished by 5 years of general surgery plus 1 or 2 years of vascular surgery. This approach allowed the trainee to be eligible for both general and vascular surgery certification.
General surgery includes some training in vascular surgery, but at least at my institution, most of that training is in open procedures.
For example, AV fistulas, amputations, (more junior house staff), carotid endarterectomies, and the rare open AAA repair would be performed by general surgery residents. However, most of the endovascular procedures (e.g., using a stentgraft to exclude a AAA) were the exclusive province of the vascular surgery fellows, who also did significant amounts of the other procedures.
So, only those with vascular surgery fellowship experience would be qualified to do the endovascular procedures, and these surgeons are also presumably going to be better than those with only general surgery experience to perform the open procedures.
Hope that helps,
BR
Docgeorge said:Any info on where the 3+3 programs will be? I've e-mailed about 15 programs, but have only received info back from 3 and they intend to remain 5+2.
Blue Rover said:I think that's the key question for now. Can you share which 3 programs you've contacted that intend to remain 5+2?
Docgeorge said:KU, Jobst, and MCW.