Vascular surgery fellowship application

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This last week I heard from UT Memphis, Indiana U and UT Chattanooga in addition to the ones above. I know someone who is a plastics fellow at Vandy and she said the Vascular Fellows are expected to be very academically productive the first year. They dont see the OR until almost 1/2 through the first year.

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i haven't heard much about vanderbilt's pgm except that it is "strong" (i think that's what everyone says for a pgm with a recognizable name lol)
Emory has a 3 mo research rotation each year...i think dedicated research time is kinda weird but by the way the fellow there was telling me, its so busy she needs it.
and YES i have been VERY impatient and even talked to my friend (who just finished her fellowship and is an attending at my pgm now) but she says keep waiting, they'll come.
So today got U of Maryland and forgot to add UT Memphis previously. One girl I met said she went to U of MD and the fellows were so tired it turned her off from the program immediately!
 
i wish at the least they would let us know when they're thinking of interviewing- i know it will never happen but it'd make scheduling these MUCH easier!
 
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I was having a conversation in the surgeons lounge yesterday which I thought some of you might find interesting.

The participants were discussing an application for privileges at one of our local community hospitals from an osteopathic trained vascular surgeon.

He was denied privileges because it turns out that the medical staff bylaws require vascular surgery privileges come from someone who has an ACGME vascular surgery fellowship. No Osteopathic fellowships training is accepted.

I have no opinion about whether or not that's fair but just thought that I would put this out there that this sort of thing is obviously in practice.
 
i wish at the least they would let us know when they're thinking of interviewing- i know it will never happen but it'd make scheduling these MUCH easier!
Yesterday I received University of Arizona and Wednesday, UT Houston, Wake Forest and Utah. I am going to start canceling some I had replied to early. This process is becoming very expensive very quickly!
 
Yesterday University of Chicago...but I replied and the interview date I can make it to is full? Anyone else have this issue?
 
Yesterday I received University of Arizona and Wednesday, UT Houston, Wake Forest and Utah. I am going to start canceling some I had replied to early. This process is becoming very expensive very quickly!

I heard from UVA, UTSW, and WV yesterday. Davis just downloaded my app today...finally! Anyone heard from FL or EVMS? Hope everyone's hangin in there!
 
I was having a conversation in the surgeons lounge yesterday which I thought some of you might find interesting.

The participants were discussing an application for privileges at one of our local community hospitals from an osteopathic trained vascular surgeon.

He was denied privileges because it turns out that the medical staff bylaws require vascular surgery privileges come from someone who has an ACGME vascular surgery fellowship. No Osteopathic fellowships training is accepted.

I have no opinion about whether or not that's fair but just thought that I would put this out there that this sort of thing is obviously in practice.

Winged,

May I message you about this particular hospital? I'm a DO who hopes to practice in Arizona someday, hence my interest.
 
Absolutely but I have no problem telling you that it's Banner Thunderbird. It may be a Banner systemwide policy.

That's very surprising given the working relationship between the DO school in Glendale and the surrounding Banner hospitals. I personally rotated at Good Sam, Thunderbird, and even at the Banner hospital out in Sun City, and never noticed anything that I would consider as discrimination. Oh well, I guess you live and you learn. Thank you for sharing the info.
 
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That's very surprising given the working relationship between the DO school in Glendale and the surrounding Banner hospitals. I personally rotated at Good Sam, Thunderbird, and even at the Banner hospital out in Sun City, and never noticed anything that I would consider as discrimination. Oh well, I guess you live and you learn. Thank you for sharing the info.
There is a difference between hospital and school administration, medical staff and department of surgery.

As adjunct faculty at Midwestern and on medical staff at several Banner facilities, I agree with you - I do not observe any outright bias. At the risk of sounding elitist, several of my best friends are osteopaths. ;) It makes sense for Banner, as the state's largest employer, to partner with local medical schools to provide educational opportunities. After all, current students are the physicians of tomorrow and Banner (in their not-so-secret plan) might be interested in hiring them in the future.

However, decisions about medical staff privileges are made by the current medical staff, and as such, are fluid, because they represent the current staff. In addition, the members of the department of surgery at each facility are responsible for deciding what the department specific requirements are. Administration does not usually question these outside of any overt legal problems. Thus, decisions about credentialing and privileges are not related to students from local DO schools rotating at their facilities.

Finally, the reason the decision was made was not because the allopathic surgeons made a decision about it, but because the osteopathic surgeons (most of whom trained here in town), felt that the quality of the osteopathic residencies and fellowships were inadequate. So, it was with their input that the decision was made. Of note, all of these osteopaths did allopathic residencies, so their may certainly be a bias there but...it is what it is, and I felt that it was worth mentioning here.
 
Finally, the reason the decision was made was not because the allopathic surgeons made a decision about it, but because the osteopathic surgeons (most of whom trained here in town), felt that the quality of the osteopathic residencies and fellowships were inadequate. So, it was with their input that the decision was made. Of note, all of these osteopaths did allopathic residencies, so their may certainly be a bias there but...it is what it is, and I felt that it was worth mentioning here.

Thank you for expanding on your original post. I don't see how a group of DOs who were trained in allopathic programs can have any meaningful insight into how DO programs are run and the quality of training they provide. And this is in Arizona where, up until just a few years ago, there were zero osteopathic surgery training programs. It would make more sense to grant or deny privileges based on individual merits. I'm sure you'll agree that there are good osteopathic surgeons and bad osteopathic surgeons, just as there are good allopathic surgeons and bad allopathic surgeons. To categorically say that all osteopathic programs are "inadequate" is pure prejudice, regardless of who's saying it, allopath or osteopath.
 
Thank you for expanding on your original post. I don't see how a group of DOs who were trained in allopathic programs can have any meaningful insight into how DO programs are run and the quality of training they provide. And this is in Arizona where, up until just a few years ago, there were zero osteopathic surgery training programs. It would make more sense to grant or deny privileges based on individual merits. I'm sure you'll agree that there are good osteopathic surgeons and bad osteopathic surgeons, just as there are good allopathic surgeons and bad allopathic surgeons. To categorically say that all osteopathic programs are "inadequate" is pure prejudice, regardless of who's saying it, allopath or osteopath.
I agree which is why I said there might be some inherent bias in those osteopaths who chose to do an allopathic residency/fellowship.

That being said, I've heard that repeated on a number of occasions over the years so while it may be true that there are good programs, the osteopathic community needs to be aware that even its "own" do not believe that to be the case *in general* (for example, PCOM is commonly referred to as "one of the good ones"). The complaints often center around volume, which is what one of the osteopath general surgeons at Banner was complaining about - he felt that since most programs were based at smaller community hospitals, the residents did not get adequate volumes of SICU, trauma, transplant and more complex cases. That may be a bias but it is a commonly espoused belief.
 
I agree which is why I said there might be some inherent bias in those osteopaths who chose to do an allopathic residency/fellowship.

That being said, I've heard that repeated on a number of occasions over the years so while it may be true that there are good programs, the osteopathic community needs to be aware that even its "own" do not believe that to be the case *in general* (for example, PCOM is commonly referred to as "one of the good ones"). The complaints often center around volume, which is what one of the osteopath general surgeons at Banner was complaining about - he felt that since most programs were based at smaller community hospitals, the residents did not get adequate volumes of SICU, trauma, transplant and more complex cases. That may be a bias but it is a commonly espoused belief.

If that's the case, the prejudice should be against anyone who trained at a "small community" hospital, regardless if they are MDs or DOs. Not all allopathic programs reside at major university and/or tertiary centers. In fact, given the higher number of allopathic surgery programs as compared to osteopathic ones, I would venture to guess the absolute number of "small community" programs in the allopathic world is comparable to the number of osteopathic ones. Secondly, these small community programs are often affiliated with bigger university programs that allow rotations in the surgical subspecialties not found at the parent program. So while residents at small programs do not get exposure to these "complex cases" on a day-to-day basis, it does not necessarily mean they do not get the adequate exposure they need to round out a broad experience in GS residency. To use your example of PCOM - A PCOM graduate, who has had good volume and exposure to complex cases due to the program's affiliations with regional centers, e.g. surgical oncology at MSK, or SICU/Trauma at Shock, would be denied privileges, while the graduate of a small allopathic program without an equivalent exposure would be granted privileges. And this would be the result of the label assigned to each individual based on the program he/she graduated from. That, to me, does not make sense. And I'll leave it at that, since it appears that I've hijacked this thread from vasculopath and vascular2015. My apologies.
 
I understand your frustration but it's misplaced. I agree many small community programs which have excellent training. The problem of perception is one that the osteopathic world has long had. Those perceptions may be inaccurate but there are also many situations where they are accurate. The same goes for small allopathic programs as well.

But Remember we are talking about fellowship training here. There's no restriction on privileges for someone who's done an osteopathic residency.

I am not aware of any vascular surgery Allopathic fellowships at small community hospitals.
 
Has anyone heard from any of the California programs, or the bigger (named) New York programs, or UPenn?

I have a friend who heard from Loma Linda end of last week. Between the two of us we've also applied to all the other CA progs and havent heard from anyone else yet. Can't help with any NY places, didn't apply to that neighborhood. But also nada from UPenn.
 
I have a friend who heard from Loma Linda end of last week. Between the two of us we've also applied to all the other CA progs and havent heard from anyone else yet. Can't help with any NY places, didn't apply to that neighborhood. But also nada from UPenn.
Thank you! Please let us know as soon as you do.
 
Loma Linda sent out invites. USC and UCLA pulled out of the match. I didn't apply to Davis but I think the rest of the Cali pgms have yet to send out invites.
"named" NY programs- as in NYU, Columbia-Cornell- haven't heard anyone say they have heard from them yet. Mt Sinai sent out invites.
 
Has anyone heard about the programs at UT Memphis or Indiana? As most likely did, I accepted all the ones I got upfront because invites came in so late I was initially worried I wouldn't get very many! And now this process is crazy expensive. So I have these two but have no real knowledge of them except that people in VERY old posts on these types of forums said they had "strong" pgms. Anyone heard anything?
 
An update: today I received the following to vote on a change in medical staff by-laws at the hospital discussed above.

2.1-3 Membership and privileges in the Department are contingent upon the requirements as specified in Article 3 of the Medical Staff Bylaws.

a) Applicants for Vascular Surgery privileges must have completed a vascular surgery residency or fellowship program accredited by the ACGME that will enable the candidate to sit for the American Board of Surgery or AOA certification exam in vascular surgery or subspecialty certification or special/added qualifications in vascular surgery by the American Board of Surgery or the American Osteopathic Board of Surgery. Surgeons currently on staff and with vascular surgery privileges may continue to request and be granted vascular privileges if current clinical competency is demonstrated.

b) Subspecialties of surgery not recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties must, in addition to the general surgery requirements, have completed a fellowship in that area of the subspecialty accredited by the ACGME, AOA, or RCPSC.

c) Privileges may be granted to Allied Health Professionals in accordance with Article Six of the Medical Staff Bylaws.
 
Has anyone heard about the programs at UT Memphis or Indiana? As most likely did, I accepted all the ones I got upfront because invites came in so late I was initially worried I wouldn't get very many! And now this process is crazy expensive. So I have these two but have no real knowledge of them except that people in VERY old posts on these types of forums said they had "strong" pgms. Anyone heard anything?
I have received them both, but said no after an initial yes reply. There are too many programs out there and I made the mistake of applying to too many programs. I think for me it is realistic to go on 10-12 interviews from a financial perspective.
 
I have received them both, but said no after an initial yes reply. There are too many programs out there and I made the mistake of applying to too many programs. I think for me it is realistic to go on 10-12 interviews from a financial perspective.

Anyone heard from Davis or Seattle yet?
 
Does anyone know if Northwestern's only interview date has already passed? They told me I was wait-listed, but never told me when the interview was. Their website says "mid-February"...
 
Hi, I'm new to this board. Anyone going to Henry Ford on Sat? Whats the word on the place?
 
Its been really quiet here. I think most are done interviewing....
 
Ok 2014 years have passed since this thread was last updated. But is anyone applying to vascular fellowship for this upcoming 2014-2015 interview season. I just sent out my applications and I just wanted to get an idea on any ideas anyone might have in terms of where an IMG should apply to and should not apply to? Also around what time do you think people might start responding to applications with invites. December 1st was the first day to submit and I did immediately. *Fingers Crossed here*
 
Ok 2014 years have passed since this thread was last updated. But is anyone applying to vascular fellowship for this upcoming 2014-2015 interview season. I just sent out my applications and I just wanted to get an idea on any ideas anyone might have in terms of where an IMG should apply to and should not apply to? Also around what time do you think people might start responding to applications with invites. December 1st was the first day to submit and I did immediately. *Fingers Crossed here*

 
Still waiting on two LOR to be uploaded. Got some confirmation that my application was received and review to start shortly. I applied to 35programs.
 
So i got Geisinger and staten island today . Interviews have started to roll in !!
 
heard from upmc, wake forest, staten island and geisenger today.

not really sure how the staten island program is... applied on a whim i guess. more info would be appreciated.

ive heard geisenger is a decent program. although location not the best.
 
Starting to get some more...I'm going to have to start bartering cases to get people to cover my shifts... :/ How are you guys' programs dealing with interview time off requests?? Sucks to have to use vacation days...
 
Yup, got a couple more.... Unfortunately using vacation days for the interviews.
 
Yeah its gonna be vacation days for sure , i bargained some of next years vacation days with my PD also just in case
 
I heard from Indiana U, Carolinas and a courtesy email from Allegheny that they'll be reviewing things after the holidays. How important do y'all think the pre-interview dinner is from the program's point of view. No doubt it would be helpful to judge the vibe, but I wonder if squeezing in an extra interview is worth missing a dinner...
 
Heard from Uconn. Courtesy email from allegheny, maimonides, evms
 
Yeah its gonna be vacation days for sure , i bargained some of next years vacation days with my PD also just in case

How did you do make that happen? My PD always cites the ABS requirement that we be engaged in clinical work 48 weeks out of the year. We have 20 vacation days allowed per year which means taking any vacation days from the following year would cause me to not meet this requirement. Is my program overly generous with vacation days or is there some way around this ABS requirement?
 
How did you do make that happen? My PD always cites the ABS requirement that we be engaged in clinical work 48 weeks out of the year. We have 20 vacation days allowed per year which means taking any vacation days from the following year would cause me to not meet this requirement. Is my program overly generous with vacation days or is there some way around this ABS requirement?
20 vacation days taken in 4 five day blocks or 3 weeks including weekends?

You cannot violate the ABSITE rules unless your program looks the other way and documents that you did 48 weeks (which has been done).
 
20 vacation days taken in 4 five day blocks or 3 weeks including weekends?

You cannot violate the ABSITE rules unless your program looks the other way and documents that you did 48 weeks (which has been done).

It seems as if it wouldn't be wrong to borrow vacation from a future year of training according to the ABS website if it is averaged over the last two years. See below:

"At least 48 weeks of full-time clinical activity in each residency year, regardless of the amount of operative experience obtained. The 48 weeks may be averaged over the first three years of residency, for a total of 144 weeks required, and over the last two years, for a total of 96 weeks required. See our Leave Policy for further details. "

http://www.absurgery.org/default.jsp?certgsqe_training
 
It seems as if it wouldn't be wrong to borrow vacation from a future year of training according to the ABS website if it is averaged over the last two years. See below:

"At least 48 weeks of full-time clinical activity in each residency year, regardless of the amount of operative experience obtained. The 48 weeks may be averaged over the first three years of residency, for a total of 144 weeks required, and over the last two years, for a total of 96 weeks required. See our Leave Policy for further details. "

http://www.absurgery.org/default.jsp?certgsqe_training
Yep -- I was aware that you could average the first three years but not the last two.
 
I cancelled an interview and it feels blasphemous...but so many of them interview the same dates! I wonder can anyone give me guidance as to the programs in the Carolinas area? I have interviews at Greenville in SC, Wake Forest and Carolinas in Charlotte. Also in the area UT-Knoxville and EVMS. Any favorites?
 
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