Very confused and depressed

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Getting into USMD school is no joke. There are plenty of people like OP who just don't get in for whatever reason. It's a big fat crapshoot. I know someone with a 3.8/32 who didn't even get a single MD interview so reapplied to DO schools and is happily attending one now. Just be happy you have the DO acceptance. You're going to be a freaking doctor! Most who apply don't even get that opportunity.

I agree with everything you are saying but there are not "plenty" of people with those stats (3.8/32) that don't get into a single allopathic school. At my school those numbers give you a 100% acceptance rate and I believe from the data from aamc that combination boasts a mid 80% rate. Thus I would say that it's still relatively rare to not land a single acceptance with those stats. It's rather unfortunate and I really empathize with OP. But I would feel more bad if he didn't get into ANY medical school, which is obviously not the case

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It doesn't seem that the OP was looking for sympathy so much as an explanation. While people make a good point to be grateful about having any acceptances at all (this cycle was brutal), it's also natural to ask what happened.

If being an MD is that important to you, withdraw your acceptance and reapply. Ask yourself if being a physician (we all are, MD and DO) is more important than having an MD behind your name. Also accept the possibility that you could have the same outcome or worse next year. No matter what people say, it's contradictory when people argue that this process is not random and then tout that "your app may have slipped through the cracks" in a different thread. That would NOT happen if there weren't some element of randomness to this process.

Call the schools at which you interviewed and ask if they could discuss your application. Apply next year to a broader list of schools. Include southern and midwestern mid-tier allo schools and newer medical schools. Only apply DO if you'd be happy going DO. Good luck to you.
To be honest, there's not a single inquiry in the OP original post. He just needed a platform to vent to which we preceded to strap on the boxing gloves and duke it out.
 
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I agree it's fine to pick MD over DO or whatever. I'm not trying to make it a DO v MD thing, I just think OP has a bad attitude and I didn't like how he basically **** all over people who applied with lower stats than him
I agree that attitude came out on his/her post, but I really don't know if he/she meant that. Regardless OP should not have applied DO if he/she did not see DO as a serious alternative.
 
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Getting into USMD school is no joke. There are plenty of people like OP who just don't get in for whatever reason. It's a big fat crapshoot. I know someone with a 3.8/32 who didn't even get a single MD interview so reapplied to DO schools and is happily attending one now. Just be happy you have the DO acceptance. You're going to be a freaking doctor! Most who apply don't even get that opportunity.
Agree. Applying to US MD is like putting your fishing line in the water and waiting for someone in the admission office to take the bait. Even if you have good stats, if your application is not well tied together, you might wait forever.
 
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Well how do you know there are no red flags? If you were the perfect applicant, you would have gotten acceptance already, right? Take the DO or go ask your advisors to find out what's wrong. I got 4 interviews/ 2 acceptances/ 2 waitlist with 3.8/31 (7VR)
 
Edit: I think JT3 meant competitive specialty, not competitive program. Im my opinion, it is easier to match into competitive specialties in the military from a traditional point of view (grades, letters, step 1, research, degree), but the military match can be an entirely different beast (needs of the military first!). I do agree with you that most training programs are mediocre. GMO tours are exclusive to the Navy, and are often very important in landing competitive specialties. I would caution doing HPSP for the reason mentioned above, because the satisfaction derived from (the possibility of landing) your desired specialty does not necessarily offset the cons of military medicine.
I meant specialty

Def some serious cons in the way of commitment and tours of duty, but the option is open to start a family much earlier and the salary is plenty to take care of things. Went to a USUHS open house a few weeks ago, def a lot of pros to consider. The residencies might not be the best compared to their civilian counterparts but from a technical aspect you WILL get the training you need to practice as a physician.

*Red flag-reserve time, they always skirt it. I've only talked to one person about it, you owe the same amount of time on reserve as you owe on active duty; I'm pretty sure. For USUHS, if you went ortho=9 years active duty owed + 9 years of reserves. I hope I am just uninformed...
 
It's always cute when a 20 year old begins to see reality. Hopefully after your period of grief you come out being a regular human being and not the entitled kid you are now.
 
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Honestly, I am disappointed on how this thread turned out. For the most part, all I see is condemnation and hatred in this thread, just because OP is hesitant to go to a DO school. Yes, I completely agree with the fact that you shouldn't apply to medical schools if you aren't planning on attending them (last resort or not). But what most of you are missing the crucial point here is how come a 3.8/32 results in only 2 WL from MD schools? A 70 LizzyM score is pretty good for mid-tier and low-tier MD schools so OP should have a shot?

Therefore, OP (@medguy13) you need to elaborate what exactly you did. What are your ECs? Are you from CA? Did you apply late? Did you apply too top heavy? These are the questions we should be asking rather than assailing OP why he doesn't want to go DO. For all we know, maybe OP added DO schools as a last resort when he realized his cycle wasn't turning out well. This probably makes sense because DO schools have longer cycles than MD.
 
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Edit: I think JT3 meant competitive specialty, not competitive program. Im my opinion, it is easier to match into competitive specialties in the military from a traditional point of view (grades, letters, step 1, research, degree), but the military match can be an entirely different beast (needs of the military first!). I do agree with you that most training programs are mediocre. GMO tours are exclusive to the Navy, and are often very important in landing competitive specialties. I would caution doing HPSP for the reason mentioned above, because the satisfaction derived from (the possibility of landing) your desired specialty does not necessarily offset the cons of military medicine.

P.S. 20k sign-on bonus is awfully enticing
 
I would consider the hpsp scholarship, I would assume it would help getting into a competitive residency.
Sure, you could land a competitive residency, or the military could decide to make you a General Medical Officer after intern year. Even if you don't become a GMO, when you are in the armed forces, the needs of the military are more important than your needs, so your flexibility in choosing a specialty is limited. There are good reasons to choose military medicine, but having a shot at better specialties is not one of them.
 
I meant specialty

Def some serious cons in the way of commitment and tours of duty, but the option is open to start a family much earlier and the salary is plenty to take care of things. Went to a USUHS open house a few weeks ago, def a lot of pros to consider. The residencies might not be the best compared to their civilian counterparts but from a technical aspect you WILL get the training you need to practice as a physician.

*Red flag-reserve time, they always skirt it. I've only talked to one person about it, you owe the same amount of time on reserve as you owe on active duty; I'm pretty sure. For USUHS, if you went ortho=9 years active duty owed + 9 years of reserves. I hope I am just uninformed...

Negative. If you went to USUHS for medical school that incurs 7 years of active duty commitment. Your residency does count towards payback of your 7-year requirement, but also incurs further commitment (one year per year of training), thus you are obligated to active duty 7 years post-residency. For ortho this means 4 (USUHS) + 5 year residency + 7 year payback = 16 years active duty. If you go Navy, you'll (edit: likely) do a GMO tour of 3 years (which counts towards the 7 you owe for medical school), which increases your obligation to 17 years of active duty.

Once you get past 8 years, there is no obligated reserve time. I am an active duty officer currently separating at 5 years and thus have to do the reserves for 3, but they can and will be inactive reserves (no drilling).

If you are considering ortho, you should keep in mind that you will be severely underpaid in the military to the extent that it is not a financially sound decision even considering your income as a student, resident and free education and pension. If you are considering primary care specialties on the lower end of the financial spectrum, then going the military route is a sound decision financially.

Also, the military lifestyle is really hard for certain spouses and children and therefore military medicine may not be in the best interest of your family even if it allows you to start one sooner.
 
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Sure, you could land a competitive residency, or the military could decide to make you a General Medical Officer after intern year. Even if you don't become a GMO, when you are in the armed forces, the needs of the military are more important than your needs, so your flexibility in choosing a specialty is limited. There are good reasons to choose military medicine, but having a shot at better specialties is not one of them.

From 10 USC 2122:

(b) The Secretary of Defense may require, as part of the agreement under subsection (a)(2), that a person must agree to accept, if offered, residency training in a health profession skill which has been designated by the Secretary as a critically needed wartime skill.

Good point.
 
Let's not get off topic with DO, military medicine, etc.... Point is, OP is in the same boat as about 500 White applicants and 155 Asian applicants each year who have GPA 3.80-4.00 and MCAT 30-32 and yet matriculate no where. (proportion is the same, pool of Asian applicants with those metrics is smaller than White pool). While ~80% get admitted somewhere, that additional 20% is not a negligible number of applicants.

There is a disconnect between the number of applications you made and the number of interviews you garnered. You didn't apply late so perhaps you applied top heavy, with a red flag on a LOR, or with sloppy essays or with an attitude that turned off adcoms/reviewers.
 
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Negative. If you went to USUHS for medical school that incurs 7 years of active duty commitment. Your residency does count towards payback of your 7-year requirement, but also incurs further commitment (one year per year of training), thus you are obligated to active duty 7 years post-residency. For ortho this means 4 (USUHS) + 5 year residency + 7 year payback = 16 years active duty. If you go Navy, you'll do a GMO tour of 3 years (which counts towards the 7 you owe for medical school), which increases your obligation to 17 years of active duty.

Once you get past 8 years, there is no obligated reserve time. I am an active duty officer currently separating at 5 years and thus have to do the reserves for 3, but they can and will be inactive reserves (no drilling).

If you are considering ortho, you should keep in mind that you will be severely underpaid in the military to the extent that it is not a financially sound decision even considering your income as a student, resident and free education and pension. If you are considering primary care specialties on the lower end of the financial spectrum, then going the military route is a sound decision financially.

Also, the military lifestyle is really hard for certain spouses and children and therefore military medicine may not be in the best interest of your family even if it allows you to start one sooner.

Thanks for the insight

As far as the ortho thing, the aspect of not having debt and still making a decent salary attracts me. As long as I can afford to support a family I'm not too worried about it. I love orthopedic procedures If the Uniformed Services are my best shot to get there then who am I to complain.

I tend to value some of the experiences I have heard, they are things I would to experience. Sorry to skew this thread off-topic so much.

If you don't mind my asking what helped you to make your decision??
 
This thread is one big mine field.

I don't think anybody here is in a position to tell OP what he/she should be happy with.

If (s)he thinks the uncertainty and rejection of another MD cycle < bitterness/resentment, (s)he should re-apply. It's just that simple as long as (s)he owns his/her decision as opposed to crying about it like (s)he did for the DO application.

Just want to say that disappointment is built into the MD apps process. You (OP) are really not different from the 4.0/37/stellar ECs kid who only got into <INSERT_LESS_COMPETITIVE_MD_SCHOOL_HERE>.
 
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Doesn't matter. When applying to med school, if ANYTHING goes wrong then it can cost you an acceptance. With how ridiculous competition is, why not just take the DO acceptance and be grateful that you don't have to reapply? Think of all the people who applied and failed and would give anything for an acceptance to ANY DO school. People are offended because OP's life is basically set as long as he passes all his classes/exams and he has the audacity to entertain the idea of throwing it away. This is why older people call us the "entitled generation."

I'm just saying put it in perspective.

It doesn't matter how you react. Stay on topic to what OP's concern is rather than criticizing why he feels that way. If you are offended, you are welcome to ignore the thread. No one is compelling you to post the thread, and hijacking to rant about how you're offended isn't tolerated (hint: it's off-topic and inflammatory).

(Note I'm not referring to you. I'm referring to the people who contributed sour and unproductive comments, and discouraging OP from replying).

Let's not get off topic with DO, military medicine, etc.... Point is, OP is in the same boat as about 500 White applicants and 155 Asian applicants each year who have GPA 3.80-4.00 and MCAT 30-32 and yet matriculate no where. (proportion is the same, pool of Asian applicants with those metrics is smaller than White pool). While ~80% get admitted somewhere, that additional 20% is not a negligible number of applicants.

There is a disconnect between the number of applications you made and the number of interviews you garnered. You didn't apply late so perhaps you applied top heavy, with a red flag on a LOR, or with sloppy essays or with an attitude that turned off adcoms/reviewers.

Finally! :biglove::love::biglove:

The prominent adcom has terminated this meaningless and unproductive hijack! :bow:
 
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Why not? I don't have any sympathy for people like him. That obviously seems to be what he is looking for.
No one is asking for your sympathy. Take it and go home, thanks.

There is nothing wrong with having high expectations. Just because you'd be satisfied with any old acceptance doesn't mean everyone else has to have the same goals. Nor does it give you the right to bash others.
 
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Long story short, I worked my ass off for 4 years to get a 3.8 GPA at my undergrad university. Took the MCAT and scored a little lower than I wanted (32), but still thought I stood a more than realistic chance at getting into many MD schools.

Well here I am in late March. I have had 2 interviews. Zero acceptances. I applied to 25 MD schools, mostly mid-lower tier ones. And yes, I applied early. I'm still on the waitlist for both schools, but at this point I'm treating them as silent rejections.

Luckily, I have been accepted into one DO school, but my plan all along was to go MD and honestly for the time that I put in during college, DO just doesn't cut it (no offense). I feel like I wasted my time getting A's in my classes just to compete for acceptances with people who have 3.3 GPA/25 MCAT.

There were no red flags in my application that I know of. I am completely baffled. I have begun to get paranoid and I've considered the possibility that maybe one of my recommendation letters was negative. But I really have no idea. It's hitting me that I won't be able to get into an MD program after all the hours I've put in. And to see people with lower stats getting accepted left and right just confuses and annoys me more.

I'm sorry if I came across as an arrogant dingus in this post, but its more pent up anger than anything. I just don't get it.
Yup, gotta love affirmative action.
 
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? He's talking about DO schools in the bolded quote.

lulz, I think @DermViser was being facetious but we may as well veer into discussing AA at this point, given how this already turned into an MD vs. DO thread.
 
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The OP clearly pissed off the DO populace here.
Because he's ignorant. 40% of DO students had a 3.6+ in undergrad and about 20% get over a 30 on the MCAT. OP isn't special or great enough to put down Osteopathic Medicine.
 
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If it makes you feel better 0 acceptances 38+, 3.9+ with 6 waitlists ...

DAMN!



There was a guy who posted on here a while ago about having a 3.4/38, plus a MS in biology, yet 0 interviews.

This game is getting crazy.
 
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Okay, first of all I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone by my comment about the DO acceptance not cutting it. I do actually respect the program and their values, and if none of my waitlist options come through, I will attend. I applied to DO schools because I knew this very scenario could come true, and it did. Will I be as happy? No, but I will push through and look to match into an MD residency in a few years time.

For those of you telling me to just reapply next year, that is not an option as I am already a reapplicant and have sunk more money into this process than I care to think about, which just adds to the frustration of it all. (Also, you may be thinking that me being a reapplicant would be the red flag, but 20/25 schools that I applied to this year were different from last year, so most don't even see me as a reapplicant.)

I don't want sympathy. I really don't. This post was (1) to vent, (2) to see if anyone else was in a similar situation, and (3) to brainstorm about what has gone wrong.

Some of you wanted my ECs:
150+ hours as volunteer in ER in hospital and other various positions in nearby clinic
100+ hours shadowing 3 different MD specialties
500+ hours as a high school math/science tutor (job)
2 months of research (no pubs)

Not stellar but shouldn't be a red flag (at least I don't think so).
 
This post was (1) to vent, (2) to see if anyone else was in a similar situation, and (3) to brainstorm about what has gone wrong.

Some of you wanted my ECs:
150+ hours as volunteer in ER in hospital and other various positions in nearby clinic
100+ hours shadowing 3 different MD specialties
500+ hours as a high school math/science tutor (job)
2 months of research (no pubs)

It's okay, dude.

I think your academics are decent enough, but your research/clinical volunteering are a bit on the light side. On a scale, I'd say your academics are average and your ECs are below average for an accepted MD applicant.

Process is absurdly competitive, that is all.
 
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Plus the residencies should be combined by the time you graduate, they start becoming all MD next year and will be completed by 2020.
 
Okay, first of all I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone by my comment about the DO acceptance not cutting it. I do actually respect the program and their values, and if none of my waitlist options come through, I will attend. I applied to DO schools because I knew this very scenario could come true, and it did. Will I be as happy? No, but I will push through and look to match into an MD residency in a few years time.

For those of you telling me to just reapply next year, that is not an option as I am already a reapplicant and have sunk more money into this process than I care to think about, which just adds to the frustration of it all. (Also, you may be thinking that me being a reapplicant would be the red flag, but 20/25 schools that I applied to this year were different from last year, so most don't even see me as a reapplicant.)

I don't want sympathy. I really don't. This post was (1) to vent, (2) to see if anyone else was in a similar situation, and (3) to brainstorm about what has gone wrong.

Some of you wanted my ECs:
150+ hours as volunteer in ER in hospital and other various positions in nearby clinic
100+ hours shadowing 3 different MD specialties
500+ hours as a high school math/science tutor (job)
2 months of research (no pubs)

Not stellar but shouldn't be a red flag (at least I don't think so).

Yeah I'd just wait to see how the WL turns out and if nothing changes by end of May, go for DO.
 
Some of you wanted my ECs:
150+ hours as volunteer in ER in hospital and other various positions in nearby clinic
100+ hours shadowing 3 different MD specialties
500+ hours as a high school math/science tutor (job)
2 months of research (no pubs)

Not stellar but shouldn't be a red flag (at least I don't think so).

This all checks out.
Must be your PS or someone dumped on you in their letter.

Edit: Where did you apply?
 
Threads like this never go well. Too many people get their feelings hurt easily.
 
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Bro that is not how reapplying works. If you've submitted an AMCAS in a prior year, then you're considered a reapplicant for ALL schools during your second cycle. This is why we don't encourage late applicants to "give it a shot" in September and try again later. It's all the same to med schools, even the ones you didn't apply to the first time around. If improvements are not obvious from your last app, that's like an automated flag.

Very sorry to hear you didn't know that... :\
 
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This all checks out.
Must be your PS or someone dumped on you in their letter.

Edit: Where did you apply?

It could very well be bad luck here. These are average EC's and good academics. I would have expected an MD acceptance for this one.

Edit: I still doubt that schools would have studied the app so carefully that not explaining his re-app status was why he wasn't accepted.
 
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First of all, OP did not give a list of schools he/she applied to. For all I know, OP might apply to a bunch top 20, and few safeties... We also don't know anything about OP ECs, interview skills etc... Anyone who says OP should have had MD acceptance(s) without knowing the full detail of OP's situation is just speculating. By the way, the average stats for MD is ~3.7 and ~32 MCAT; therefore, OP is just average when it comes to stats alone. I don't see why some people are shocked that OP did not get MD acceptance(s). Most of the MD schools with low stats have regional bias or are mission specific. Thus , if your stats are average, you better have other stuffs that stand out in your application because these schools can afford who they pick because they have too many qualified applicants. Most schools are getting over 5k applications these days, so good stats alone might not get an applicant to the 'promised land'.
 
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First of all, OP did not give a list of schools he/she applied to. For all I know, OP might apply to a bunch top 20, and few safeties... We also don't know anything about OP ECs, interview skills etc... Anyone who says OP should have had MD acceptance(s) without knowing the full detail of OP's situation is just speculating. By the way, the average stats for MD is ~3.7 and ~32 MCAT; therefore, OP is just average when it comes to stats alone. I don't see why some people are shocked that OP did not get MD acceptance(s). Most of the MD schools with low stats have regional bias or are mission specific. Thus , if your stats are average, you better have other stuffs that stand out in your application because these schools can afford who they pick because they have too many qualified applicants. Most schools are getting over 5k applications these days, so good stats alone might not get an applicant to the 'promised land'.

The OP posted their EC's earlier. They seemed sufficient.

Incidentally, a basic command of English is not necessary for getting people to the 'promised land' either these days.
 
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The OP posted their EC's earlier. They seemed sufficient.

Incidentally, a basic command of English is not necessary for getting people to the 'promised land' either these days.
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OP, give us some closure. Tell us that you only applied to the top 25 on USNW?
 
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Okay, first of all I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone by my comment about the DO acceptance not cutting it. I do actually respect the program and their values, and if none of my waitlist options come through, I will attend. I applied to DO schools because I knew this very scenario could come true, and it did. Will I be as happy? No, but I will push through and look to match into an MD residency in a few years time.

For those of you telling me to just reapply next year, that is not an option as I am already a reapplicant and have sunk more money into this process than I care to think about, which just adds to the frustration of it all. (Also, you may be thinking that me being a reapplicant would be the red flag, but 20/25 schools that I applied to this year were different from last year, so most don't even see me as a reapplicant.)

I don't want sympathy. I really don't. This post was (1) to vent, (2) to see if anyone else was in a similar situation, and (3) to brainstorm about what has gone wrong.

Some of you wanted my ECs:
150+ hours as volunteer in ER in hospital and other various positions in nearby clinic
100+ hours shadowing 3 different MD specialties
500+ hours as a high school math/science tutor (job)
2 months of research (no pubs)

Not stellar but shouldn't be a red flag (at least I don't think so).
Going from your post history, you are a reapplicant. Was this a significant step up from your ECs on your initial application?Even for an initial applicant, those ECs would seem extremely light. You have 4 items and one is essentially just barely getting your feet wet in research.

How many of those 25 schools were you a reapplicant at?
 
Going from your post history, you are a reapplicant. Was this a significant step up from your ECs on your initial application?Even for an initial applicant, those ECs would seem extremely light. You have 4 items and one is essentially just barely getting your feet wet in research.

How many of those 25 schools were you a reapplicant at?
Doesn't matter; OP would've been considered a reapplicant at all schools in the second cycle.
 
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Doesn't matter; OP would've been considered a reapplicant at all schools in the second cycle.
Is there a place on the AMCAS application that specifically asks if you are a reapplicant? As far as I know, schools do not know if you have applied before unless you applied there, but I could be wrong.
 
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Doesn't matter; OP would've been considered a reapplicant at all schools in the second cycle.

? How would other schools know? I could be wrong but I'm 99% sure that nowhere on AMCAS or AACOMMAS did I have to enter I was a reapplicant this past cycle.
 
The OP posted their EC's earlier. They seemed sufficient.

Incidentally, a basic command of English is not necessary for getting people to the 'promised land' either these days.
I just did not know if I was writing a dissertation here. Sorry kiddo if my grammar is not up to your standards!
 
That's a really unfortunate situation, medguy13.

I can tell that you worked really hard and are really upset about all of this.

I just want to let you know that there are plenty of people who have re-applied to medical school and gotten in, and many of them had worse stats than you!

Don't give up! If you want to be an MD, then go for the MD. Make the most of your gap year. No looking back.
 
Haha... Shoot your better off than my friend. 3.9 GPA 33 MCAT 5 interviews, 4 straight rejections. He's lacking clinical volunteer hours even though he was a scribe for over 2 years.
 
So your ECs look good just some food for thought: what did you get out of each of those experiences and how did they make you want to become a doctor?

It honestly could have been your answer to those questions. When you have all the prereqs they start looking at you and how you personally grew from those experiences.
 
There absolutely had to have been a red flag in your app, whether a letter writer destroyed you, or your essays said something that made adcoms shiver. Either that or you only applied top 25, recs were mediocre, and EC descriptions and essays were poor. Your stats plus ECs would be enough to get in as long as the boat wasn't rocked by a LOR, bad school list, or major mistake in an essay.
 
(3) to brainstorm about what has gone wrong.

Some of you wanted my ECs:
150+ hours as volunteer in ER in hospital and other various positions in nearby clinic
100+ hours shadowing 3 different MD specialties
500+ hours as a high school math/science tutor (job)
2 months of research (no pubs)

Not stellar but shouldn't be a red flag (at least I don't think so).
You're at best a cookie cutter applicant, but the truth is that your research is severely lacking and you haven't shown any leadership or desire to volunteer outside the medical setting.

If you honestly believe that DO "won't cut it," I suggest you re-apply. Yes, you put in money, but is it worth to you saving a few thousands now compared to the lifelong letters behind your name that you aren't particularly fond of?
 
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