Vet School or Med School

[Heartfelt29]

I've always wanted to be a veterinarian. I love animals, have experience with horses and in rescue situations. I have an aunt and uncle and close family friends that are vets. I'm a senior in high school so I'm obviously early, but I still wanted to hear some opinions. I am going to college to study biology and am also playing a division 1 sport. I have over a 4.0 in high school and will be entering college with 30+ credit hours from dual credit and AP classes. Recently I've been putting a lot of thought into what I want to be. I'm suddenly feeling a strong pull towards the human medical field. I guess the biggest reason I can think of is that I feel like I could do more research and groundbreaking things in the human medical field than the veterinary field, though there are exceptions of course. Another reason I have been leaning against vet med is what I've been reading about people not being able or willing to pay for treatment for their pets, potentially aggressive animals, and the lower pay and less job situation. I guess I was just wondering if anyone else could give me some insight on their decision-making process. Thanks.

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[DVMDream]

My recommendation is going to be to shadow both vets and doctors so that you can actually get a feel for each field and go from there. That is going to be the best way for you to decide what route is best to take. And who knows.... you may even end up deciding that any type of medical field isn't what you want and go a completely different direction... you are still young so you have time to explore things.

 

[Gwenevre]

Yes, shadow as many docs and vets as you can. Get as much hands-on information about the two fields as you can.

 

[wolfpackprevet]

And make sure to shadow in multiple different areas. Try some veterinary research. The idea that vets aren't doing ground breaking research is just false -- some of it is translational into the human side too. Vets are so much more than simply those you see doing private practice, even though that's what the majority of us will end up doing.

 

[lhmhtd]

I just applied to vet school and have no desire to be a "regular" vet (I.e. General practice). Do some research about both fields, and youll find there are LOTS of options as far as research, public health, specialties, academia, etc. I agree with the idea of shadowing both vets and doctors, and try to branch out into different settings to get the best feel for what each field is like. Don't feel rushed into making a decision either. Best of luck!

 

[StartingoverVet]

Another reason I have been leaning against vet med is what I've been reading about people not being able or willing to pay for treatment for their pets, potentially aggressive animals, and the lower pay and less job situation. I guess I was just wondering if anyone else could give me some insight on their decision-making process. Thanks.

Since everyone else avoided this part....

You are absolutely right on the financial aspects.
Treatment cost is a huge part of private practice. It influences almost everything you do treating pets, unlike in human med, and if that is something that will bother you, then keep that in mind.

And it is by now well known that the debt:income ratio for vet med is really poor. One of the worst fields if you have to finance your own education. And then even if you have a wealthy family to pay your way, there is no doubt that human medicine is MUCH more lucrative on average than vet med. If you want to have a nice comfortable life, then human med is the better path.

You are the only one who can weigh the financial issues with the other benefits and drawbacks of each path. What is 100% right for one, is 100% wrong for another.

 

[Caia]

I don't have much more to add. I think everyone has brought up really good points.

If I liked human med, I would have gone that route. But I don't...at all...so the decision was easy. Everyone is different, so gaining experience in each and then further weighing the pros and cons is definitely the way to go about deciding.

 

[DVMDream]

Another reason I have been leaning against vet med is what I've been reading about people not being able or willing to pay for treatment for their pets, potentially aggressive animals, and the lower pay and less job situation. I guess I was just wondering if anyone else could give me some insight on their decision-making process. Thanks.

It was late when I responded last night so I did a general shadow vets and doctors to make a decision. You really should do this.. shadow vets and doctors in various aspects... not just small animal vets and not just private practice or ER doctors.

Also, as SOV stated, yes finances have a significant impact on what vets can or cannot do treatment wise.

Yes, there are people that cannot or will not pay to have their pet treated, it is one part of vet med that often sucks.

As far as aggressive animals, yes there are animals that are aggressive. However, I find this to not be quite as frustrating. An animal simply does not understand what we are trying to do and the most aggressive animals I have seen while working as a tech were those that weren't trained properly by the owners. I don't fault the animals, I do get frustrated that an owner has put their pet into a situation where it can't cope without becoming aggressive. However, you learn that there are many ways to work with even the most aggressive animals and as long as you are safe, aware and respectful of the animal then rarely do people get hurt. Yes, bites happen. Yes, scratches occur. Yes, people get kicked by horses, cattle, etc. But you do everything that you can to prevent that. Safe handling goes a long way to prevent serious injuries.

And yes, vets get paid less than human doctors and there aren't as many job openings. That is up to you to determine if that is something that you can deal with or not. It is definitely something to consider since vet school is so expensive. So do keep it in mind.

Overall, the best thing you can do is to shadow some vets and doctors. See first hand what the jobs are like and ask questions while you are with them about different things that you want to know.

 

[Lupin21]

Also just wanted to add if research is what you want to do, you don't have to have the MD or DVM. PhD is all you need. As a DVM/PhD student, it is incredibly hard to get both of them done at the same time. My research is going incredibly slow and my grades have dropped a bit this semester trying to do so much in the lab and keep up with classes. And on that note, my current research is involving glioblastomas, so it has huge relevance to human health. The thought that vet med research has less impact on human health than medical doctor research is highly inaccurate. Good luck with your decisions.

I've always wanted to be a veterinarian. I love animals, have experience with horses and in rescue situations. I have an aunt and uncle and close family friends that are vets. I'm a senior in high school so I'm obviously early, but I still wanted to hear some opinions. I am going to college to study biology and am also playing a division 1 sport. I have over a 4.0 in high school and will be entering college with 30+ credit hours from dual credit and AP classes. Recently I've been putting a lot of thought into what I want to be. I'm suddenly feeling a strong pull towards the human medical field. I guess the biggest reason I can think of is that I feel like I could do more research and groundbreaking things in the human medical field than the veterinary field, though there are exceptions of course. Another reason I have been leaning against vet med is what I've been reading about people not being able or willing to pay for treatment for their pets, potentially aggressive animals, and the lower pay and less job situation. I guess I was just wondering if anyone else could give me some insight on their decision-making process. Thanks.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I just applied to vet school and have no desire to be a "regular" vet (I.e. General practice). Do some research about both fields, and youll find there are LOTS of options as far as research, public health, specialties, academia, etc. I agree with the idea of shadowing both vets and doctors, and try to branch out into different settings to get the best feel for what each field is like. Don't feel rushed into making a decision either. Best of luck!

Just as a caveat, most of these areas require additional schooling (and therefore debt interest accruement) past vet school. One of the biggest lies I was sold in vet school was that there was a huge need and lots of jobs for vets in research and public health. To break into those fields you will most likely need a PhD and/ or MPH in addition to your DVM to be competitive. They are not options for the average fresh out of school DVM, whereas clinical practice is. They are almost separate career paths that don't really begin until after vet school

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

And ok, to be honest people....you WILL do more "groundbreaking" research, statistically, on the MD side because the more directly and CLINICALLY relevant to human medicine the research is, the more funding you will get. Sad but true. And getting funding is like being in the ThunderDome nowadays. Medical schools will always get more moolah that vet schools, even if the research is translational. Basic science (ie not clinical) research is hard enough to fund as it is. Groundbreaking, cutting edge research is EXPENSIVE and most vet schools, except those with rich medical schools attached, will never be wealthy enough themselves in terms of grants to support it consistently.

Every single DVM and DVM/PhD I know highly recommended getting a PhD/pursuing a research career at a med school rather than a vet school post DVM. I was lucky enough to get an NIH fellowship to support my PhD, and as a result you bet my research is almost exclusively on human disease, albeit using animal models. I'm still technically at a vet school (my lab is actually in a different department, though), but my funding situation is unusual compared to the average vet school lab.

 

[Lupin21]

And ok, to be honest people....you WILL do more "groundbreaking" research, statistically, on the MD side because the more directly and CLINICALLY relevant to human medicine the research is, the more funding you will get. Sad but true. And getting funding is like being in the ThunderDome nowadays. Medical schools will always get more moolah that vet schools, even if the research is translational. Basic science (ie not clinical) research is hard enough to fund as it is. Groundbreaking, cutting edge research is EXPENSIVE and most vet schools, except those with rich medical schools attached, will never be wealthy enough themselves in terms of grants to support it consistently.

Every single DVM and DVM/PhD I know highly recommended getting a PhD/pursuing a research career at a med school rather than a vet school post DVM. I was lucky enough to get an NIH fellowship to support my PhD, and as a result you bet my research is almost exclusively on human disease, albeit using animal models. I'm still technically at a vet school (my lab is actually in a different department, though), but my funding situation is unusual compared to the average vet school lab.

True 'nuff. Listen to WTF, she knows like Bo knows.

 

[swiniazycie]

Just as a caveat, most of these areas require additional schooling (and therefore debt interest accruement) past vet school. One of the biggest lies I was sold in vet school was that there was a huge need and lots of jobs for vets in research and public health. To break into those fields you will most likely need a PhD and/ or MPH in addition to your DVM to be competitive. They are not options for the average fresh out of school DVM, whereas clinical practice is. They are almost separate career paths that don't really begin until after vet school

I'm just an undergraduate but THIS. I've taken a lot of food/health courses and a big change is pushing DVMs in food safety to have additional education in post moderm/food microbiology. Not a bad thing, just something to be aware of!

 

[LetItSnow]

To break into those fields you will most likely need a PhD and/ or MPH in addition to your DVM to be competitive. They are not options for the average fresh out of school DVM

As another caveat, there are dual DVM-MPH programs that allow you to graduate in the same amount of time with both degrees. We have one here in MN. I don't know of other programs, but I assume they are out there and just not on my radar since I'm not a public health person.

So you certainly could break into those career paths fresh out of school if you pick the right school/program.

I think the comments about research are on the money. If you want to do human medicine research, go the PhD or MD/PhD route. There are obviously DVMs doing groundbreaking research that plays into human medicine - we have people doing pretty amazing cancer research here, and I just went to a rounds talk about developing animal models specifically for human orthopedic research (a big deal in a country that has soldiers overseas getting injured on a regular basis), but for every one of those opportunities in vet med there are going to be many, many, many more to the pure PhD or MD/PhD.

Honestly, if someone were on the fence about a clinical future (DVM vs MD) my own personal recommendation would be MD. Both fields have burnout and stress and whatever, but the MD world at least pays remarkably well in comparison (I hear the voice of a million MDs screaming at me right now, but they can all shut up because their perspective on how much money they make (or don't) is kinda screwy. They should try our salaries for a while......). Similarly, if someone were on the fence about research, I'd recommend the PhD or MD/PhD route because of opportunities.

 

[Caia]

I hear the voice of a million MDs screaming at me right now, but they can all shut up because their perspective on how much money they make (or don't) is kinda screwy. They should try our salaries for a while......

Yep!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

As another caveat, there are dual DVM-MPH programs that allow you to graduate in the same amount of time with both degrees. We have one here in MN. I don't know of other programs, but I assume they are out there and just not on my radar since I'm not a public health person.

So you certainly could break into those career paths fresh out of school if you pick the right school/program.

I think the comments about research are on the money. If you want to do human medicine research, go the PhD or MD/PhD route. There are obviously DVMs doing groundbreaking research that plays into human medicine - we have people doing pretty amazing cancer research here, and I just went to a rounds talk about developing animal models specifically for human orthopedic research (a big deal in a country that has soldiers overseas getting injured on a regular basis), but for every one of those opportunities in vet med there are going to be many, many, many more to the pure PhD or MD/PhD.

Honestly, if someone were on the fence about a clinical future (DVM vs MD) my own personal recommendation would be MD. Both fields have burnout and stress and whatever, but the MD world at least pays remarkably well in comparison (I hear the voice of a million MDs screaming at me right now, but they can all shut up because their perspective on how much money they make (or don't) is kinda screwy. They should try our salaries for a while......). Similarly, if someone were on the fence about research, I'd recommend the PhD or MD/PhD route because of opportunities.

Yep, there are indeed these programs, I did forget but was speaking very generally. I think my alma mater brought its DVM/MPH one back. I think it's a great idea. I am a bit more leery of DVM/PhD programs because they are often structured poorly IMO.

I didnt mean to imply research at vet schools is cruddy, some of it is VERY interesting, critical stuff which forms the basis of human medicine. However, it comes down to the grant money at the end of the day. It takes a LOT more fight to get grants as a DVM/PhD doing comparative/translational research (to say nothing of purely animal oriented research.....good luck unless you can get Morris Foundation $) versus grants as an MD/PhD doing human clinical research. It sucks but it is what it is in today's economic climate which is crippling the new generation of researchers across the board.

 

[LetItSnow]

I didnt mean to imply research at vet schools is cruddy, some of it is VERY interesting, critical stuff which forms the basis of human medicine. However, it comes down to the grant money at the end of the day. It takes a LOT more fight to get grants as a DVM/PhD doing comparative/translational research (to say nothing of purely animal oriented research.....good luck unless you can get a Morris grant) versus grants as an MD/PhD doing human clinical research.

I don't think you did imply that (about vet schools). I agree completely with you - the opportunities are more open in the MD/PhD world if human-groundbreaking research is the goal for someone. It's not that the quality of work in the vet environment is necessarily lower; it's exactly as you say: the funding opportunities are drastically more limited.

 

[Heartfelt29]

Thanks for all the replies. I definitely need to get some experience in each field to better determine what I want to do. I plan on doing undergraduate research if time allows with my volleyball schedule. At this point its been difficult to get any shadowing done due to crazy schedules but I've been putting a lot of thought into this lately because I'm about to go to college and my sister is just starting medical school. One other thing that I have been thinking about is the time commitment effect on having a family and pregnancy in each field. Obviously this is very broad, as it would depend a lot on what part of each field you end up in just wondering if anyone has any comments on that consideration. Thanks again.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I don't think you did imply that (about vet schools). I agree completely with you - the opportunities are more open in the MD/PhD world if human-groundbreaking research is the goal for someone. It's not that the quality of work in the vet environment is necessarily lower; it's exactly as you say: the funding opportunities are drastically more limited.

Yep, it's all about the Benjamins. Bleh.

 

[StartingoverVet]

edical schools will always get more moolah that vet schools, even if the research is translational. Basic science (ie not clinical) research is hard enough to fund as it is. Groundbreaking, cutting edge research is EXPENSIVE and most vet schools, except those with rich medical schools attached, will never be wealthy enough themselves in terms of grants to support it consistently.

OT: But this is one of the reason why I think vet schools should just go back 100+ years and merge back into the medical programs. It would fit with the "onehealth" approach, there is enough overlay to say redundant resources, and the research angle would be better covered.

Penn has one of the top vet school research programs, and benefits a bit from having a top med school a block away, but really is like a poor 3rd cousin twice removed. The med school is awash in money (thank you Ron Perelman), and even hires away vet school staff. This is a ridiculous waste.

Not saying the curriculums would be the same, but a well managed program can definitely do it cheaper overall for the university, without overlapping resources... Of course that is never going to happen at penn since each "school" here is essentially independently run (which is why Wharton and the Med School have awesome facilities, while the School of Arts and Sciences or the Vet School lag behind, just as an aside.)

I know this would be unpopular, and probably unrealistic, but it would be smart at this point.