Vet Schools that like research experience?

[bakedjps]

hi! I was just wondering if you guys know of any vet schools that particularly like research experience or have strong research programs? I have about 2000 hours in biophotonics and molecular bio research as an undergrad, and just ~500 in veterinary experience in a clinic. I would really like to be able to do veterinary research in the future and therefore I've been spending most of my time in labs. Does anyone know if having more research than clinical experience makes my profile less competitive than someone who has the majority of their hours in clinical experience? Thanks in advance!

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[pinkpuppy9]

hi! I was just wondering if you guys know of any vet schools that particularly like research experience or have strong research programs? I have about 2000 hours in biophotonics and molecular bio research as an undergrad, and just ~500 in veterinary experience in a clinic. I would really like to be able to do veterinary research in the future and therefore I've been spending most of my time in labs. Does anyone know if having more research than clinical experience makes my profile less competitive than someone who has the majority of their hours in clinical experience? Thanks in advance!

Look for some of the DVM/PhD students on this board. @Njnealon is the only one who I can think of off the top of my head (sorry to those who I'm missing)! They can give you the best advice.

I'd say all of the schools appreciate research experience, and all of the schools conduct research. Whether there is one school that 'excels' over the others in research, I don't know if that exists. I think what you want to look for is the faculty you'd be interested in working with, or what specific labs the school has. Do you have any particular research interests? I'd start there.

You will need both veterinary and research experience to be competitive for the DVM/PhD route, if you choose that path. You first and foremost have to become a DVM and understand all of that stuff before becoming a PhD, so it makes sense to need both. If you are just hoping to do the DVM route, I'd think you'd want to amp up your clinica; experience, especially if you already have a large amount in research. 500 hours is not low by any means, but it seems that 1000 is a good number.

 

[NStarz]

I was asked about my undergrad research at all of my interviews...just saying.

 

[bakedjps]

Look for some of the DVM/PhD students on this board. @Njnealon is the only one who I can think of off the top of my head (sorry to those who I'm missing)! They can give you the best advice.

I'd say all of the schools appreciate research experience, and all of the schools conduct research. Whether there is one school that 'excels' over the others in research, I don't know if that exists. I think what you want to look for is the faculty you'd be interested in working with, or what specific labs the school has. Do you have any particular research interests? I'd start there.

You will need both veterinary and research experience to be competitive for the DVM/PhD route, if you choose that path. You first and foremost have to become a DVM and understand all of that stuff before becoming a PhD, so it makes sense to need both. If you are just hoping to do the DVM route, I'd think you'd want to amp up your clinica; experience, especially if you already have a large amount in research. 500 hours is not low by any means, but it seems that 1000 is a good number.

Thanks!! I'm thinking of first going for just a DVM program and then perhaps pursuing a PhD after because I don't think my overall academic profile is competitive enough for admission into a dual DVM/PhD program. I'm hoping to get my veterinary experience to 700 by the time I apply this cycle thanks again for the advice!

 

[DVMDream]

Simple terms:

If you don't have research experience, it won't look bad. Unless you claim an interest in research.

If you have research experience all schools will look at that positively.

ETA: If you have thousands of hours of research experience then you should still get some clinical experience... at least a few hundred hours. It is no different than someone with thousands of hours with small animal clinical experience, they should try to get some hours in other categories of experience.

 

[bakedjps]

Simple terms:

If you don't have research experience, it won't look bad. Unless you claim an interest in research.

If you have research experience all schools will look at that positively.

ETA: If you have thousands of hours of research experience then you should still get some clinical experience... at least a few hundred hours. It is no different than someone with thousands of hours with small animal clinical experience, they should try to get some hours in other categories of experience.

yeaa I'm working on that now! I just wanted to know if having more research hours could offset lower veterinary hours if I do have a primary interest in research....hopefully it'll be enough by September! Thanks a lot for the advice!

 

[jmo1012]

vmrcvm used to look quite heavily and favorably on applicants who had large numbers of high quality research experience. its been a long time since i applied obviously though. i used to work in a lab doing lab tech stuff for 2 years in undergrad roughly 10-20 hours per week and they told me they wanted to see more for whatever thats worth

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

vmrcvm used to look quite heavily and favorably on applicants who had large numbers of high quality research experience. its been a long time since i applied obviously though. i used to work in a lab doing lab tech stuff for 2 years in undergrad roughly 10-20 hours per week and they told me they wanted to see more for whatever thats worth

It's been an even longer time since I applied but I think they still do. Especially with the new infectious disease research center expansion. I was in a similar boat as the OP: thousands of research and lab animal hours and only a couple hundred clinical hours. I think if you make a very strong case for why you want to have an "alternative" career in vet med (i.e. less clinical) and also show them that hey, you at least tried the clinical side, it is fine.

 

[bakedjps]

It's been an even longer time since I applied but I think they still do. Especially with the new infectious disease research center expansion. I was in a similar boat as the OP: thousands of research and lab animal hours and only a couple hundred clinical hours. I think if you make a very strong case for why you want to have an "alternative" career in vet med (i.e. less clinical) and also show them that hey, you at least tried the clinical side, it is fine.

Thanks! I don't know if this is being too greedy....but I'd really like to do clinical stuff as well as research. Ideally I would like to maybe work at a teaching hospital while conducting research on the side at a university....although it is to my understanding that achieving this is very difficult? The university I go to for undergrad doesn't have many DVM's working in academia, so I'm pretty fuzzy on the details of this career path. Do you have any advice in regards to that?

much appreciated!!!

 

[jmo1012]

Thanks! I don't know if this is being too greedy....but I'd really like to do clinical stuff as well as research. Ideally I would like to maybe work at a teaching hospital while conducting research on the side at a university....although it is to my understanding that achieving this is very difficult? The university I go to for undergrad doesn't have many DVM's working in academia, so I'm pretty fuzzy on the details of this career path. Do you have any advice in regards to that?

much appreciated!!!

you just described the life of an academic clinical professor. if you want to work clinically, you should probably broaden and expand your hours

 

[bakedjps]

you just described the life of an academic clinical professor. if you want to work clinically, you should probably broaden and expand your hours

Yes exactly! Do you have any ideas of how to become one after vet school? Do you know if having a PhD is a must, or can I become a clinical professor with just a DVM? How hard is it to get a postdoctoral fellowship/training program in veterinary research with just a DVM?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Yes exactly! Do you have any ideas of how to become one after vet school? Do you know if having a PhD is a must, or can I become a clinical professor with just a DVM? How hard is it to get a postdoctoral fellowship/training program in veterinary research with just a DVM?

Usually you need to also have a specialty that you will teach in - radiology, internal medicine, surgery, anesthesia, etc. Either DVM + spec alone or DVM + spec + PhD.

It is almost impossible to get a traditional research postdoc as a pure DVM unless you specifically apply for NIH T32 programs earmarked for veterinarians (which are technically PhD programs that pay you at a postdoc level anyway, so not even real postdocs). These are extremely competitive. A DVM is a clinical degree; without a research degree (i.e. PhD) most if not all prime research centers will not accept you. They want someone who can run flow cytometry, analyze RNAseq and write grants, not spay a dog. Harsh but true. Know what I mean? Teaching alone can be a bit more fluid and accepting but it depending again on credentials.

I am a DVM specialist in a postdoc program to become a clinical professor, so if you have questions or advice feel free to PM me too!

 

[bakedjps]

Usually you need to also have a specialty that you will teach in - radiology, internal medicine, surgery, anesthesia, etc. Either DVM + spec alone or DVM + spec + PhD.

It is almost impossible to get a traditional research postdoc as a pure DVM unless you specifically apply for NIH T32 programs earmarked for veterinarians (which are technically PhD programs that pay you at a postdoc level anyway, so not even real postdocs). These are extremely competitive. A DVM is a clinical degree; without a research degree (i.e. PhD) most if not all prime research centers will not accept you. They want someone who can run flow cytometry, analyze RNAseq and write grants, not spay a dog. Harsh but true. Know what I mean? Teaching alone can be a bit more fluid and accepting but it depending again on credentials.

I am a DVM specialist in a postdoc program to become a clinical professor, so if you have questions or advice feel free to PM me too!

Thanks!! That information was really helpful to me. I'll PM you in a bit because I have a lot more questions xD

 

[Njnealon]

Look for some of the DVM/PhD students on this board. @Njnealon is the only one who I can think of off the top of my head (sorry to those who I'm missing)! They can give you the best advice.

I'd say all of the schools appreciate research experience, and all of the schools conduct research. Whether there is one school that 'excels' over the others in research, I don't know if that exists. I think what you want to look for is the faculty you'd be interested in working with, or what specific labs the school has. Do you have any particular research interests? I'd start there.

You will need both veterinary and research experience to be competitive for the DVM/PhD route, if you choose that path. You first and foremost have to become a DVM and understand all of that stuff before becoming a PhD, so it makes sense to need both. If you are just hoping to do the DVM route, I'd think you'd want to amp up your clinica; experience, especially if you already have a large amount in research. 500 hours is not low by any means, but it seems that 1000 is a good number.

Hey! In class right now, but I'll give this a look at later and see if I can help!

 

[hedgehogcatcher]

I think research hours are generally viewed as being at least as valuable as clinic hours, so it can be a good way of beefing up your application if clinic positions are competitive in your area or if that's something you enjoy focusing on. It Doesn't matter if you're doing a dual degree or just a DVM, it is a valuable experience that gives you an idea what goes on near the cutting edge of science and in industry. However, you still need some valuable and varied experiences with veterinarians.

I have had professors with only a DVM before who also did some research but they taught primarily at the undergraduate level at a smaller university. Solid pre-vet program and awesome agriculture college but no vet program. Not a bad gig though! I'd work there in a heartbeat. One of them practiced 2 days a week at a local clinic as well. Maybe a college like that would be worth inquiring into- although it's not exactly easy to land a job, there are more paths towards what you are looking for that don't require a PhD.

 

[bakedjps]

I think research hours are generally viewed as being at least as valuable as clinic hours, so it can be a good way of beefing up your application if clinic positions are competitive in your area or if that's something you enjoy focusing on. It Doesn't matter if you're doing a dual degree or just a DVM, it is a valuable experience that gives you an idea what goes on near the cutting edge of science and in industry. However, you still need some valuable and varied experiences with veterinarians.

I have had professors with only a DVM before who also did some research but they taught primarily at the undergraduate level at a smaller university. Solid pre-vet program and awesome agriculture college but no vet program. Not a bad gig though! I'd work there in a heartbeat. One of them practiced 2 days a week at a local clinic as well. Maybe a college like that would be worth inquiring into- although it's not exactly easy to land a job, there are more paths towards what you are looking for that don't require a PhD.

Thanks for the perspective! Makes me feel a little less stressed and I would love to teach undergraduates too! haha I will definitely look into that

 

[Njnealon]

hi! I was just wondering if you guys know of any vet schools that particularly like research experience or have strong research programs? I have about 2000 hours in biophotonics and molecular bio research as an undergrad, and just ~500 in veterinary experience in a clinic. I would really like to be able to do veterinary research in the future and therefore I've been spending most of my time in labs. Does anyone know if having more research than clinical experience makes my profile less competitive than someone who has the majority of their hours in clinical experience? Thanks in advance!

Hey! I think having research experience is great, it definitely will not hurt your chances of getting in. I know a few applicants who had more research than clinical experience. That being said, you want to make sure you have clinical experience too, whether that come from shadowing veterinarians, or working at a clinic, etc. For dual degree applications/interviews, your research might be a bit more important than the clinical work (ie as long as you meet the required/average number of clinical/animal hours for the veterinary school, that should be fine).

For me personally, I had about 800ish lab hours (maybe?) and over 2000 clinical hours.... I worked full-time for the better part of a few years, and took a year off while applying, so that helped increase my hours. For you, I think your 500 hours is great, given the quality (versus quantity) of those hours. If you were able to build meaningful relationships with a vet(s), and learn some relevant clinical skills, then that should be fine for most schools. In other words,I didn't need all of those hours per-say, (yet I did enjoy going to work!), but what was important was that my references were able to speak highly of my experiences at lab/clinics. Schools care more about what you learned versus how many hours you racked up Just make sure when you apply, you have at least one reference who is a DVM, which is required for most schools (ie you would have had to have some sort of clinical/veterinary experience in order to know a vet well?)

Perhaps keep up a little bit of clinical work/experience/animal care, to show a sustained interest in vet med as you are applying, and then keep doing lab work? Also, your projects sound awesome, I'm leaning towards the cell/molecular biology end with my work too! What type of projects do you do in a biophotonics lab, out of curiosity?

What also looks great if you are considering a career in veterinary research/thinking of applying dual degree is some teaching experience. Whether that is tutoring, test prep, an undergraduate TA, helping professors, etc, a large part of a research career, especially if you want to work at a university (as an investigator or a clinician) probably will involve some teaching responsibilities. I know when I applied, that helped my application. The subject doesn't matter, but I guess science doesn't hurt! I wrote in my personal statement how teaching and tutoring science made me a more effective communicator- in writing, speaking, and listening. These skills are valuable to have as a clinician, scientist, or any professional, so teaching can never hurt an application! (plus, you learn so much more about a subject when you have to explain it to people, which is really cool).

 

[bakedjps]

Hey! I think having research experience is great, it definitely will not hurt your chances of getting in. I know a few applicants who had more research than clinical experience. That being said, you want to make sure you have clinical experience too, whether that come from shadowing veterinarians, or working at a clinic, etc. For dual degree applications/interviews, your research might be a bit more important than the clinical work (ie as long as you meet the required/average number of clinical/animal hours for the veterinary school, that should be fine).

For me personally, I had about 800ish lab hours (maybe?) and over 2000 clinical hours.... I worked full-time for the better part of a few years, and took a year off while applying, so that helped increase my hours. For you, I think your 500 hours is great, given the quality (versus quantity) of those hours. If you were able to build meaningful relationships with a vet(s), and learn some relevant clinical skills, then that should be fine for most schools. In other words,I didn't need all of those hours per-say, (yet I did enjoy going to work!), but what was important was that my references were able to speak highly of my experiences at lab/clinics. Schools care more about what you learned versus how many hours you racked up Just make sure when you apply, you have at least one reference who is a DVM, which is required for most schools (ie you would have had to have some sort of clinical/veterinary experience in order to know a vet well?)

Perhaps keep up a little bit of clinical work/experience/animal care, to show a sustained interest in vet med as you are applying, and then keep doing lab work? Also, your projects sound awesome, I'm leaning towards the cell/molecular biology end with my work too! What type of projects do you do in a biophotonics lab, out of curiosity?

What also looks great if you are considering a career in veterinary research/thinking of applying dual degree is some teaching experience. Whether that is tutoring, test prep, an undergraduate TA, helping professors, etc, a large part of a research career, especially if you want to work at a university (as an investigator or a clinician) probably will involve some teaching responsibilities. I know when I applied, that helped my application. The subject doesn't matter, but I guess science doesn't hurt! I wrote in my personal statement how teaching and tutoring science made me a more effective communicator- in writing, speaking, and listening. These skills are valuable to have as a clinician, scientist, or any professional, so teaching can never hurt an application! (plus, you learn so much more about a subject when you have to explain it to people, which is really cool).

Thanks for the great advice! I will definitely consider continuing lab work while getting clinical experience on the side. I already have a veterinarian for a letter of rec, but hopefully I can get another one just for good measure. And the teaching bit would indeed be very helpful! I'll try and look into opportunities for that.

That's awesomeeee I actually really like the molecular bio lab I work in right now so I very well might follow your footsteps Are you doing research in vet school right now? I was only in the biophotonics lab for a year so I only worked on one project, but it was basically developing a proof-of-concept to isolate specific particulates in a conglomerate solution and form self-assembled nanolens via condensation to visualize those particles (<50nm) using a combination of super-resolution and a type of lensfree microscopy called LUCAS. A lot of jargon, but basically worked on a method to increase the resolution of a certain microscopy technique. If you're interested I can talk about it more in private or send you the publication, although honestly it's not too interesting

 

[davisaj4]

hi! I was just wondering if you guys know of any vet schools that particularly like research experience or have strong research programs? I have about 2000 hours in biophotonics and molecular bio research as an undergrad, and just ~500 in veterinary experience in a clinic. I would really like to be able to do veterinary research in the future and therefore I've been spending most of my time in labs. Does anyone know if having more research than clinical experience makes my profile less competitive than someone who has the majority of their hours in clinical experience? Thanks in advance!

I have A LOT of research experience and even stated I wanted to do research in my personal statement. At my WSU interview this year, they didn't ask me a single question about it. So I'm not sure what to make of that, but maybe that means WSU isn't your best bet for research? Although, they have a great One Health program and seem definitely research focused.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I have A LOT of research experience and even stated I wanted to do research in my personal statement. At my WSU interview this year, they didn't ask me a single question about it. So I'm not sure what to make of that, but maybe that means WSU isn't your best bet for research? Although, they have a great One Health program and seem definitely research focused.

WSU has a great research program as far as I know. They do have a reputation for being a little snobby about grades though (no offense WSUers, the admin, not you).

 

[davisaj4]

WSU has a great research program as far as I know. They do have a reputation for being a little snobby about grades though (no offense WSUers, the admin, not you).

Well let's hope not, my grades weren't the best. haha

 

[Njnealon]

Thanks for the great advice! I will definitely consider continuing lab work while getting clinical experience on the side. I already have a veterinarian for a letter of rec, but hopefully I can get another one just for good measure. And the teaching bit would indeed be very helpful! I'll try and look into opportunities for that.

That's awesomeeee I actually really like the molecular bio lab I work in right now so I very well might follow your footsteps Are you doing research in vet school right now? I was only in the biophotonics lab for a year so I only worked on one project, but it was basically developing a proof-of-concept to isolate specific particulates in a conglomerate solution and form self-assembled nanolens via condensation to visualize those particles (<50nm) using a combination of super-resolution and a type of lensfree microscopy called LUCAS. A lot of jargon, but basically worked on a method to increase the resolution of a certain microscopy technique. If you're interested I can talk about it more in private or send you the publication, although honestly it's not too interesting

Yeah, currently part-time in vet school, and full-time in grad school... its an interesting set-up haha! Should be starting some interesting metabolomics stuff this semester, and working a bit more with GC/LC mass-spectrometry platforms. I'm interested in gut/food biomolecules, specifically those altered by diet. I guess my broader goal is understanding the roles/intersections of diet, the immune system, and gut microbes in food allergies of companion animals. My personal stake in this is my pups suffered from a lot of allergy-related conditions, so it always got me thinking growing up.( Given this may change a bit because Im pretty early into grad school haha!)

Microscopy is an interesting area, it is so impressive what they can do nowadays... In class earlier we were talking about deconvolution microscopy and how it could be used to reduce some of the light spots resulting from in chemiluminescent biomarkers. This got me thinking about history, how when seeing a single cell was a landmark achievement. Awesome to think how far science has come! What type of particles were you trying to visualize? And I'll totally PM you soon

 

[bakedjps]

Yeah, currently part-time in vet school, and full-time in grad school... its an interesting set-up haha! Should be starting some interesting metabolomics stuff this semester, and working a bit more with GC/LC mass-spectrometry platforms. I'm interested in gut/food biomolecules, specifically those altered by diet. I guess my broader goal is understanding the roles/intersections of diet, the immune system, and gut microbes in food allergies of companion animals. My personal stake in this is my pups suffered from a lot of allergy-related conditions, so it always got me thinking growing up.( Given this may change a bit because Im pretty early into grad school haha!)

Microscopy is an interesting area, it is so impressive what they can do nowadays... In class earlier we were talking about deconvolution microscopy and how it could be used to reduce some of the light spots resulting from in chemiluminescent biomarkers. This got me thinking about history, how when seeing a single cell was a landmark achievement. Awesome to think how far science has come! What type of particles were you trying to visualize? And I'll totally PM you soon

Sorry I thought I replied to this but I guess not....? We were first trying to detect nanobeads sub-100nm with this technique, and then after that was successful we tried looking at carbon nanotubes and various kinds of virus! Although virus detection proved to be very finicky