Veterans, the GI Bill (Ch 30 and 33/ Post-9/11), and Veteran Readiness/Vocational Rehabilitation (Ch 31/VRE)

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100% yes. The transfer still needs to happen before you get out, but on the Ch 31 page, there are many examples of people who didn't have the GI Bill and were using Voc Rehab. You just won't get the monthly stipend if you don't save at least a day (month is best) of benefits for yourself. You have to sign up for the Ch 31 program and be approved before you qualify to receive the stipend as well. In case I was confusing, yes you can get Voc Rehab, your benefits will just be a little different. You can see all the Ch 31 benefits you qualify for in the M28R.
http://www.disabledveterans.org/vre-voc-rehab-manual-m28r/

And to download a paginated and searchable version of the M28R click here: M28R Paginated

Thank you for the info. I haven't done any research myself yet, so forgive me if this is a stupid question and I'll do my own research before asking. If I'm rated at 10%, for example, but I can still do my job (being a lawyer), can I still get voc rehab to go to medical school now that the SEH requirement is gone? This sounds like I'm cheating the system.

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Thank you for the info. I haven't done any research myself yet, so forgive me if this is a stupid question and I'll do my own research before asking. If I'm rated at 10%, for example, but I can still do my job (being a lawyer), can I still get voc rehab to go to medical school now that the SEH requirement is gone? This sounds like I'm cheating the system.
From what I understand about the program (please note I'm not a VSO) the program is meant to train people to get employment or be competitive with their peers in their employment fields. If your disability doesn't interfere with your capability to be a lawyer (anxiety, public speaking issues, etc.) then they would probably not approve you to be in the program regardless of your disability percentage. You may get a different answer speaking to a VSO, so I'm not 100% certain. It never hurts to try, but don't be disappointed if they tell you no.

Maybe one angle you could take is that you're attempting to practice in medical malpractice, public health, expert witnessing, patent law, etc. (MD/JD) and not having the MD would put you at a serious competitive disadvantage. That being said...getting approved for more than 48 months total benefits, including GI Bill usage for undergrad or law school, requires you to have a serious employment handicap.
 
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Thank you for the info. I haven't done any research myself yet, so forgive me if this is a stupid question and I'll do my own research before asking. If I'm rated at 10%, for example, but I can still do my job (being a lawyer), can I still get voc rehab to go to medical school now that the SEH requirement is gone? This sounds like I'm cheating the system.

I agree with Silleme.
 
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Do you guys know of people using rehab voc and still taking out federal loan? I'm just curious about the possibility.
 
Do you guys know of people using rehab voc and still taking out federal loan? I'm just curious about the possibility.
Right now I'm using the GI Bill and still getting FAFSA funds (Pell grants, loans, etc), so I don't see the difference with Voc Rehab and FAFSA funds as the Ch 31 and Ch 33 funds are not W-2 reportable income.
 
Do you guys know of people using rehab voc and still taking out federal loan? I'm just curious about the possibility.
Yes. I'm currently doing this. My school budgets a lot of money for living expenses for a single person, but not enough for a family of 4. This has allowed me to not also have to worry about money while I'm in dental school.
 
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You can use any grant in which is granted. You can take out as many private loans as you want and can afford. You can take up to the maximum offered in federal Stafford loans though FAFSA. Neither the GI Bill or Voc Rehab come up as scholarships or income, so you will typically qualify for quite a bit.

I only know very few people who have taken out small loans while using the GI Bill, but only from people going to private or out of state schools that either didnt have yellow ribbon, or just not enough yellow ribbon to cover the difference of the capped amount.

I don't know anyone personally who has taken out loans with Voc rehab. With Voc rehab, you're receiving disability pay as it is and it covers all of your tuition, supplies, and provides either a stipend or BAH, but it can be done if needed or wanted.
 
I'm a little shaky on the percentage thing. Are we talking about the percentage you get for disability or is does VOC do its own percentage system for how much you qualify. Also if the percentage system is for disability, if I dont have any disability is there a chance I can qualify? Thanks in advance for the answers.
 
I'm a little shaky on the percentage thing. Are we talking about the percentage you get for disability or is does VOC do its own percentage system for how much you qualify. Also if the percentage system is for disability, if I dont have any disability is there a chance I can qualify? Thanks in advance for the answers.

It's strictly based on the VA system of disability ratings. If you don't have 10%+ by the VA, you do not qualify for Voc Rehab.

So submit for disability if you have any service-connected ailments, then see what you qualify for down the road.
 
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@68PGunner are you already working with a voc rehab counselor?

Yup, I'm already working on my package. When I get my rating in a few months, it will go into effect within a few weeks. From my CP results, I would probably get 30%DoD and 60%VA.

The counselor seems to be very supportive of my goal considering that I already have an acceptance letter from a medical school.
 
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I'm a little shaky on the percentage thing. Are we talking about the percentage you get for disability or is does VOC do its own percentage system for how much you qualify. Also if the percentage system is for disability, if I dont have any disability is there a chance I can qualify? Thanks in advance for the answers.

This is why you go to sick call and document every little boo-boos you have once you are set on gtfo.
 
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This is why you go to sick call and document every little boo-boos you have once you are set on gtfo.

yep, or just have an MEB, because then they basically go over you from head to toe, lol. I ended up with hearing loss rating and I had no idea I had suffered any hearing loss, as I had always been pretty careful to make sure I had my hearing protection whenever I was doing flight medic field exercises with my PROFIS unit. None the less, had I not been going through an MEB for my foot, when I left the service I would have had no record of my hearing loss.
 
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yep, or just have an MEB, because then they basically go over you from head to toe, lol. I ended up with hearing loss rating and I had no idea I had suffered any hearing loss, as I had always been pretty careful to make sure I had my hearing protection whenever I was doing flight medic field exercises with my PROFIS unit. None the less, had I not been going through an MEB for my foot, when I left the service I would have had no record of my hearing loss.

Well, they found out my jacked up knees and feet during the CP exam through ordered X-rays. I doubt that I will get any rating for those abnormalities since I don't have any functional loss. That's what happens when you jump out of MTVs and Strykers in full kits on a regular basis. However, it's a good thing to have these things documented while you're still in that uniform.

I was ready to put on this uniform for 20 years by opting for HPSP. However, at this point, I'm just ready to gtfo.
 
Well, they found out my jacked up knees and feet during the CP exam through ordered X-rays. I doubt that I will get any rating for those abnormalities since I don't have any functional loss. That's what happens when you jump out of MTVs and Strykers in full kits on a regular basis. However, it's a good thing to have these things documented while you're still in that uniform.

I was ready to put on this uniform for 20 years by opting for HPSP. However, at this point, I'm just ready to gtfo.


Yeah, me too, I was 4th generation Army, and figured I would be there for life until I my foot got messed up. And you are correct, having everything documented now means that if it becomes a problem in the future, you will have a link to it. I still remember the example the guy who did my ETS briefing gave regarding the benefits of a 0% rating. He told us about a guy who had a 0% rating for his knees when he got out and subsequently went to work for the forestry service. Many years later, one of his knees gave out and he fell and became paralyzed. Since it was determined that the fall was the result of a service connected disability (his 0% rated knees), his rating was increased to 100% after the accident.
 
Ladies and gents,

Not sure who's been following anything regarding the new bill regarding the GI Bill, transferring the benefits, and benefits being cut, but..........

Apparently if you transfer your GI Bill benefits to a spouse or child, they will receive only half if any BAH (whereas you would receive the full amount). Currently, spouses and children receive the full amount as you would.

If anyone is planning on transferring benefits and has not done so, look into it. I caught a rumor (thus I haven't looked into it yet) that if the benefits are transferred before the bill is in effect, those using the transferred benefits will be grandfathered in and receive the full amount.

If anyone has more info on this or looks it up, please post to clarify.
 
Ladies and gents,
Not sure who's been following anything regarding the new bill regarding the GI Bill, transferring the benefits, and benefits being cut, but..........
Apparently if you transfer your GI Bill benefits to a spouse or child, they will receive only half if any BAH (whereas you would receive the full amount). Currently, spouses and children receive the full amount as you would.
As it stands right now, if you're still active-duty and you've transferred to your spouse, they would not get any BAH while you're active duty. If you're already out, they would receive the full BAH stipend.
I'm not aware of how that would change under the law passed by the House, but it still has to have a functionally identical bill pass the Senate for it to land on the President's desk.
 
My statement above is regarding once one becomes a veteran as opposed to active duty regarding the BAH. I saw something with the Marine Times, but didn't get to finish the article because I had to run somewhere, but it pass and am just trying to make sure if anyone is considering it that they look into it. I wish they would just stop with vet benefits, as minimal as they are (relatively speaking). The people cutting the benefits get 6 figures for the rest of their lives with full med/dent health coverage for families, and I'm sure they have some sorts of connects for having school paid for, not to mention they can pay in full out of pocket anyway. They need to cut their own crap.
 
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Hey all!
I'm new to this thread so please be kind as I'm not sure if I'm posting the correct way but I need some help. I'm a navy veteran who is currently using the Post 9/11 GI bill to pay for my undergrad degree. I have not applied for disability because I wanted to keep the option of going back on active as an officer open. After thinking about it for a while it seems like the officer route is not what I really want to do. So my question is after applying for disability and possibly getting a rating back that qualifies me for voc rehab benefits what is my next step? I've been reading a lot about people having a hard time getting med school or PA school paid for after they use up the GI bill and I'm wondering how the occasional person is getting approval from the VA to have med or PA school paid for through voc rehab? By the time I graduate undergrad I'll have I believe 6 months left on the GI bill. Also I'll be applying for PA school not med school, not sure if that makes a difference....
Thanks anyone who responds!
 
@clcrum33 Welcome!

Just so you know, having a VA rated disability does not necessarily preclude you from re-entering service. These are waiverable to my knowledge. Please double check this because I don't know if it is disability-specific or not, but I was told by a healthcare recruiter for HPSP that I can submit to waive what I have.

Once you have a rating, if you do get rated, is to log onto ebenefits and get to the VONAPP system to apply for Voc. Rehab.

I actually had PA school approved first before switching to medical school. Unfortunately, a lot of the approvals denials seem to be very reliant on the individual counselor to whom you may be assigned. A lot also could rely on your background, specific disabilities, how much extra time you require, your actual degree/courses you're taking/have taken, and whether or not you already have an acceptance or not!

If you message me, I can go into a little more detail and maybe give you some guidance!
 
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If you come in prepared your Voc Rehab counselor will be a lot more able to help you. The reason for the program is to help you get employed as your military or current job is interfered with by your disability (for those needing the SEH waiver, which you may) and it's meant to help you become more employable (find a job) or be able to get promoted to the level commensurate with your experience in whatever job you currently hold. You'd be looking at the employable option, so make sure to position yourself best for that.
 
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Without an SEH you are regularly able to have 48 months of Ch 31, so you would be fine for med school. The conundrum is demonstrating to your VRC why you are unemployable with your current schooling, how your service connected disability contributes to that unemployability, AND that you have the aptitude and interest to attain a career goal of being a physician; all while demonstrating that your service connected disability will not interfere with that career goal. Thus, it's highly dependent on what your SCD is AND who your VRC is. It is possible though, as I know of several persons who have gotten voc rehab to pay for medical/dental/PA school. I'd be lying though if I didn't tell you that at the end of the day a large piece of the puzzle depended on who your VRC was. I've had one "meh" VRC and one that was great, but I've seen cases where veterans were clearly entitled to chapter 31 benefits and denied for no reason.
 
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Without an SEH you are regularly able to have 48 months of Ch 31, so you would be fine for med school. The conundrum is demonstrating to your VRC why you are unemployable with your current schooling, how your service connected disability contributes to that unemployability, AND that you have the aptitude and interest to attain a career goal of being a physician; all while demonstrating that your service connected disability will not interfere with that career goal. Thus, it's highly dependent on what your SCD is AND who your VRC is. It is possible though, as I know of several persons who have gotten voc rehab to pay for medical/dental/PA school. I'd be lying though if I didn't tell you that at the end of the day a large piece of the puzzle depended on who your VRC was. I've had one "meh" VRC and one that was great, but I've seen cases where veterans were clearly entitled to chapter 31 benefits and denied for no reason.


Thank you! This actually makes a lot of sense now. I was super confused first as to how I'm supposed to show that I'm unemployable with my current degree and how the disability is a reason for that. Being able to show that seems pretty daunting and I'm honestly not sure how people prove that...? My degree is Public Health and I can tell you right now the reason for unemployability would be because I have no experience in that field and most jobs related to that field require a masters...so showing how a disability contributes to the unemployment sounds rather difficult. :/
 
@clcrum33 Welcome!

Just so you know, having a VA rated disability does not necessarily preclude you from re-entering service. These are waiverable to my knowledge. Please double check this because I don't know if it is disability-specific or not, but I was told by a healthcare recruiter for HPSP that I can submit to waive what I have.

Once you have a rating, if you do get rated, is to log onto ebenefits and get to the VONAPP system to apply for Voc. Rehab.

I actually had PA school approved first before switching to medical school. Unfortunately, a lot of the approvals denials seem to be very reliant on the individual counselor to whom you may be assigned. A lot also could rely on your background, specific disabilities, how much extra time you require, your actual degree/courses you're taking/have taken, and whether or not you already have an acceptance or not!

If you message me, I can go into a little more detail and maybe give you some guidance!


Thank you so much! That was a lot of information, I will definitely message your for more information because I didn't realize how difficult the whole process would be....!
 
@clcrum33, that is my concern too...showing that the disability contributes to unemployment. I also have a degree that is not very marketable and later decided that I would like to go to medical school.

Hi everyone, I just recently learned about Voc Rehab and to be honest, it sounds like a great way to get medical school paid for! However, I would be lying if I said that I have a disability that limits my employability. I am 20% rated so I think I would qualify but I don't feel as though I am "entitled" to the program. I do not qualify for the GI Bill and so Voc Rehab sounds amazing to me. I have already been accepted to medical school and will be starting this fall. Looking at the amount of loans I will be taking out is quite daunting, to say the least. Would it be bad if I tried to get the Voc Rehab benefit? Would it be possible? How would I go about explaining it? Do people literally go in saying "I'd like to get medical school paid for" ?

I would love to get everyone's opinion and some help with this if possible. Thanks so much!
 
Would it be bad if I tried to get the Voc Rehab benefit?

The worst they can do is say no. They also know why you are there. So there's no reason to be coy about it. You are already on a path to medical school with an acceptance. You just want see if you qualify for a VA program that you are entitled to apply for because of your service. Certainly don't make it easy for them by telling them your disability doesn't limit your employability. Let them make that determination. As mentioned previously, it really is dependent on the counselor but don't let them tell you BS. Know the program and know your rights before you attend any meetings.
 
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So the magic phrase here is being employed in a job that maximally meets your skills, interests and aptitudes. IF you get a good VRC, the "interests" part of that catch phrase is what will get you approved. Lets say you were an EOD guy on active duty and you have a bachelors in criminal justice. You might be employable BUT you might not be employable in an area that fits your interests, especially if things got gnarly during your job. In this scenario, it is entirely plausible that you have a service connected disability that qualifies you for Ch 31 criteria (lets say 30% for hearing loss) but because of your experience as an EOD tech on active duty you are wholly disinterested in that kind of work and it is such a specialized skill that you can't really apply it to another, substantially dissimilar line of work. In this scenario you could make a valid case for the VA to pay for you to go to med school, even though the tinnitus itself was not what was preventing you from working in a field that you would be employable in. The SCD only must apply if you are requesting something such as > 48 months of benefits, etc. In that case, you would then need to show that the SCD contributed to your inability to be employed in a line of work you were qualified for (for example the hearing loss posed a safety hazard for working bomb disposal in a civilian PD).
 
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Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I hope Voc Rehab will still be around in a few years when I become ready to apply to med school. (I'm waiting on my spouse to hit 20 and retire first to stay at home with the kids; I myself am medically retired). Congrats to all with acceptances, matches, careers etc and good luck to those applying.
 
There was a guy named Rikudo here. He was an officer in the Army with disability ratings. They tried to deny him for some bs citing that he could get some random job at a local VA due to his marketable degree. He ended having Rehab Voc approved for a free ride to a medical school by showing that the job doesn't match his interest and aptitude.

The bottom line is that if you have a disability rating of 20% or higher, you should fight for this benefit because you deserve it through your service. Oh, if you do get Rehab Voc approved for medical school, you don't come back to active duty. LOL. That's pretty much common sense.
 
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Hey all!
I'm new to this thread so please be kind as I'm not sure if I'm posting the correct way but I need some help. I'm a navy veteran who is currently using the Post 9/11 GI bill to pay for my undergrad degree. I have not applied for disability because I wanted to keep the option of going back on active as an officer open. After thinking about it for a while it seems like the officer route is not what I really want to do. So my question is after applying for disability and possibly getting a rating back that qualifies me for voc rehab benefits what is my next step? I've been reading a lot about people having a hard time getting med school or PA school paid for after they use up the GI bill and I'm wondering how the occasional person is getting approval from the VA to have med or PA school paid for through voc rehab? By the time I graduate undergrad I'll have I believe 6 months left on the GI bill. Also I'll be applying for PA school not med school, not sure if that makes a difference....
Thanks anyone who responds!

If you're medically retired, you're SOL. However, disability ratings by the VA is money paid for your injuries incurred during your time in service. That could mean a lot of things. So, let's said you have degenerative knees that total 20%. Does that prevent you from active duty? No.

BTW, if you're looking to get disability ratings, you diagnosis must be made during your time in service or 12 months after the end of your service. You will not get a rating if you're past this time frame.
 
BTW, if you're looking to get disability ratings, you diagnosis must be made during your time in service or 12 months after the end of your service. You will not get a rating if you're past this time frame.

Spot on on everything except potentially the quoted part, at least to some extent. I have been off active duty for 3 years and put up a claim for something, which was rated service connected and was not previously diagnosed. I say potentially because I was still within one year of the end of my IRR time when I requested it, so maybe that has something to do with it?
 
Spot on on everything except potentially the quoted part, at least to some extent. I have been off active duty for 3 years and put up a claim for something, which was rated service connected and was not previously diagnosed. I say potentially because I was still within one year of the end of my IRR time when I requested it, so maybe that has something to do with it?

I think the idea is that you can add any claim that is secondary toward your primary service connected diagnosis. However, if you leave the service 100% unrated and now try to get a diagnosis past the 12 months period of the discharge, it will be hard to make a case that it's service connected.

The key here is that the VA will rate for your service connected injuries whether they are primary or secondary. Secondary conditions require no time frame. For example, people with back injuries usually have other conditions flaring up due to overcompensation. Therefore, jacked up knees, ankles, and feet 5-10 after the primary diagnosis are credible and categorized as secondary conditions.
 
So, someone in my school financial aid office is telling me about how my veteran benefits such as Voc Rehab or post 9/11 will decrease my financial aid and thereby my loan limit. Consequently, I just combed through the Federal Student Aid Handbook for 2016 to find out that all veteran benefits, as defined under Section 480(c) of the HEA, meaning post 9/11 GI Bill and Voc Rehab, are not treated as estimated financial assistance. Score one for the veterans out there.
 
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That is correct. VA benefits are non taxable, therefore not income. So they're wrong, giving out bad information, and negatively affecting people's futures. Please speak to their supervisor(s)!

Well, this person said that he worked with other schools before and this was how they did business for vets going through PA schools on Voc Rehab. I just hope that this is before July 1 of 2009. Otherwise, some vets got screwed back then.
 
That is correct. VA benefits are non taxable, therefore not income. So they're wrong, giving out bad information, and negatively affecting people's futures. Please speak to their supervisor(s)!

I actually feel bad about reporting the dude because he sounds like a nice dude. However, I think I'm going to take your words to heart and speak to the director of financial aid about this because this kind of misinformation could hurt some veterans out there. I mean it's a normal request to have people in this field be experts at their craft.
 
That is correct. VA benefits are non taxable, therefore not income. So they're wrong, giving out bad information, and negatively affecting people's futures. Please speak to their supervisor(s)!

They aren't taxable but some VA benefits can impact your financial aid. For example, if you receive a stipend from Ch. 31 payments, it does not get reported on the FAFSA. However, if you receive VA disability payments, even though they are not taxable, they are required to be reported on the FAFSA.
 
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They aren't taxable but some VA benefits can impact your financial aid. For example, if you receive a stipend from Ch. 31 payments, it does not get reported on the FAFSA. However, if you receive VA disability payments, even though they are not taxable, they are required to be reported on the FAFSA.

Sure, your VA disability payment can be reported on FAFSA in order to calculate your expected family contribution (EFC). However, when it comes to medical school financial aid, most of your aid comes in the form of unsubsidized loan, which can be borrowed against your EFC. So, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter.
 
They aren't taxable but some VA benefits can impact your financial aid. For example, if you receive a stipend from Ch. 31 payments, it does not get reported on the FAFSA. However, if you receive VA disability payments, even though they are not taxable, they are required to be reported on the FAFSA.

Read on the calculation for earned family contribution (EFC) and estimated family assistance (EFA) in order to determine your need and financial aid package. It's spelled out in the Federal Student Aid Handbook from the Department of Education.
 
For anyone who has not had luck with Voc Rehab, and doesn't want/can't re-enter the military, there are other options.... one is the NHSC scholarship, and another which is new (applications begin Jan '16 apparently): VA HPSP. I don't know all of the details and have yet to read more into it, but apparently its similar to military HPSP/NHSC in various ways with a minimum obligation to work at the VA for 1 year.

If I get more info soon, I'll post - if anyone else has more/better information, please inform.

Here's a link to get started, which I'll revisit later as well: http://www.vacareers.va.gov/why-choose-va/education-support.asp
 
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Hi All,
So if we are getting funding thru either the GI Bill, Voc Rehab or HPSP are we still able to take out money from FASFA? I was thinking about trying to buy a house while I'm at school. Use FASFA money as the down payment and use the VA loan to finish it while paying the morgage with the stipend. Thanks in advance.

You can still use FASFA, but you cannot use education benefits for any type of loan. I purchased a house during my undergrad, and was not able to use education benefits as a source of income because it's not meant to be a long term source of income. Unlike a job/career, where you have a potential long term source of income income. Banks go based on probability. If they know your funds are drying up in 3-4 years, they're not gonna dish out a 15-30 year loan.

Anyways, I'm glad I found this thread. I've been lurking around for a few months. I'm looking to get into the PT program over here at UofA, but exhausted all my post 9/11 benefits for my undergrad. Literally down to the day. If I would've known this information before, then I'd be in a different position. The last thing I want to do is touch any loans. I've finished my entire undergrad without loans, and would prefer to finish PT School without loans. I believe I will get approved for voc rehab benefits (seeing as I'm 80% SC, but then again, its the VA. So who knows), but how do I go about finding a "counselor" to discuss this whole program and using it for a PT program?
 
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You can still use FASFA, but you cannot use education benefits for any type of loan. I purchased a house during my undergrad, and was not able to use education benefits as a source of income because it's not meant to be a long term source of income. Unlike a job/career, where you have a potential long term source of income income. Banks go based on probability. If they know your funds are drying up in 3-4 years, they're not gonna dish out a 15-30 year loan.

Anyways, I'm glad I found this thread. I've been lurking around for a few months. I'm looking to get into the PT program over here at UofA, but exhausted all my post 9/11 benefits for my undergrad. Literally down to the day. If I would've known this information before, then I'd be in a different position. The last thing I want to do is touch any loans. I've finished my entire undergrad without loans, and would prefer to finish PT School without loans. I believe I will get approved for voc rehab benefits (seeing as I'm 80% SC, but then again, its the VA. So who knows), but how do I go about finding a "counselor" to discuss this whole program and using it for a PT program?
first thing's first, you have to go on Ebenefits and apply for voc rehab. Then they send you a snail mail with an appt date.
 
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first thing's first, you have to go on Ebenefits and apply for voc rehab. Then they send you a snail mail with an appt date.

But before doing all of that, it's best to have an acceptance letter? I haven't even started applying yet, and still need to take the GRE and such. I plan to have a full app into UAMS by November. Still have some shadowing and what not I need to do.
 
Nope. set your career goal as (was it PT?) and then they pay for everything up to that point
Wait a second, hold up! *excited disbelief* Do you mean to say that if we apply for voc rehab before post bac and get it approved, that they will pay for post bac AND med school? Because I thought it would be one or the other...or that there was a 4 year limit or something...
 
There is a new Chapter 31 group on facebook btw, since Ben decided he didn't like the direction of the old one (wanted it to be more about exposing the VA, rather than veterans helping one another with ch 31 questions). Just go to facebook and search groups for :Chap 31, Voc Rehab Discussion Group: Many of the former members are in the new group and its literally the best resource on the planet if you have Ch. 31 specific questions.
 
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Wait a second, hold up! *excited disbelief* Do you mean to say that if we apply for voc rehab before post bac and get it approved, that they will pay for post bac AND med school? Because I thought it would be one or the other...or that there was a 4 year limit or something...
Yup. Best benefit ever for past warriors.
 
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