"Vets are too expensive, and it’s putting pets at risk"

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jmo1012

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that rebuttal was fantastic. I can't believe they put garbage like that in the washington post.
 
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I'm sorry. I couldn't finish the article, but it reminded me of something my friend linked on FB recently about vets jumping to euthanasia and amputation when it's not needed.

Vets just can't win. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
 
that rebuttal was fantastic. I can't believe they put garbage like that in the washington post.

WaPo's really gone down the sh-tter since Bezos bought it. It's really a shadow of what it once was. Not surprised to see them publishing garbage like this.
 
I'm sorry. I couldn't finish the article, but it reminded me of something my friend linked on FB recently about vets jumping to euthanasia and amputation when it's not needed.

Vets just can't win. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

My god. Their hearts are in the right place and it's great that they're helping people pay for specialist care, but they act like an amputation is the worst thing in the world...not to mention that you can't exactly blame a vet for not referring someone to a specialist if the person can't afford to pay for it.
 
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I'm sorry. I couldn't finish the article, but it reminded me of something my friend linked on FB recently about vets jumping to euthanasia and amputation when it's not needed.

Vets just can't win. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.


So wait... this person's cat, Hercules, had a very badly injured leg that the vet determined needed to be amputated, which is by far a cheaper option than trying to allow what sounds like an open degloving injury to heal by second intention AND attempting to repair the fractured leg too. This cat had its leg not been amputated, would have had zero guarantee that it would not end up at amputation anyway down the road. Not only that, but the person couldn't even afford the amputation and is now asking for help to pay off that vet bill but is pissed that a more expensive option (that clearly they couldn't afford) wasn't done?

I mean, maybe the vet didn't refer them or mention referral. Maybe, but I have an odd feeling referral was mentioned but these people couldn't afford it (just like they clearly couldn't afford the amputation) and now only regret it after the fact when they realize that they could have attempted to get people to donate money to them to try to save the cat's leg. Ugh.
 
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The rural mixed vet I worked for throughout vet school actually raised his amputation price because he was tired of owners having him amputate instead of repairing broken limbs because it was cheaper for them. Now he gets to fix a whole lot more broken limbs instead of cutting them off.
 
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There are ignorant asses all over the world and they aren't going away. But the battle is won down in the trenches with face-to-face client interaction and patient care. If you're a honest, caring person who provides excellent medical care, the vast majority of your clients will see that in you and it won't matter to them what some ***** on the internet says.
 
The rural mixed vet I worked for throughout vet school actually raised his amputation price because he was tired of owners having him amputate instead of repairing broken limbs because it was cheaper for them. Now he gets to fix a whole lot more broken limbs instead of cutting them off.

I have nothing against fixing a broken limb, but sometimes amputation really is the best answer for various reasons...

Then again, I was yelled at second year by the board-certified orthopedic surgeon during one of our case studies when I recommended amputation for a cat's femur that was so obliterated I couldn't tell which part was proximal and which part was distal... apparently you can fix that.. who knew?
 
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Yeah, he will still absolutely amputate if that is the right medical decision, but if a repair is possible and reasonable, he'd rather repair it rather than owners just picking amputation because it's cheaper.
Edited to add: He actually always recommends referral to a board certified surgeon first, but not everyone is willing to go that route.

I have been surprised on clinics to see how emotional people get over amputations. On my surgery rotation we had two different individuals get extremely angry and then cry when we told them amputation was the most realistic option. There is an emotional thing there for some people that surprised me and I wasn't expecting. Maybe it's because I have seen amputee animals adapt so well, I don't know. In the end, one animal got an amputation of a birth deformity and the other owner remained adamant they save the leg to the tune of about $15,000 and four months in the hospital.
 
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Funny thing is, if you ask anyone of any profession why they don't do their work for free, they'll say "because I need to make a living." I've heard the old argument "well if you really love animals, you'd do this for free" but the logic fails when you turn the question around. "If you loved writing, you'd do it for free. If you loved people, you'd treat them for free."

This is not the only profession that gets this treatment, but it's definitely a challenging one to deal with this in because of the deep emotional connection people have to their pets. The human-animal bond is powerful and a big reason why many of us choose this career path, but it also leads to people having drastic reactions. People are, for the most part, used to paying little for their own healthcare because of insurance... but ask anyone who's had to live without it for any reason and they'll tell you doctors and human hospitals aren't cheap at all. I took a friend to a hospital once when she began to suffer from abdominal pain. Based on her symptoms I suspected an ovarian cyst, since I'd known someone with similar symptoms and that diagnosis. The hospital did a urine sample, bloodwork, etc and ended up giving her IV pain meds, told her it was just a bad period. She paid upwards of 1000$ without insurance. Worse, they were wrong; she went to her normal doctor and he confirmed an ovarian cyst.

The problem is compounded by people like the infamous Dr. Pol, whose quick and dirty (and therefore inexpensive) approach to things is broadcast to so many. Those who view his show assume he's in the right and are outraged when their vet dares to suggest better quality care which, understandably, raises costs. When you have someone on TV who undervalues the profession, clients begin to undervalue it.

But not universally... and when you communicate well, present multiple options, etc, it helps. Raising awareness of Care Credit, etc, is important too, as is an emphasis on saving for emergencies in advance. Talk of prevention being cheaper than a cure is also helpful.

Bottom line; we're always going to have people who accuse us of being money-grubbing jerks that drive Ferraris we bought with the money we got from prescriptions, etc. All any aspiring vet or current vet can do is communicate the truth, and when you have a difficult or ignorant person, keep calm and carry on. I'm not saying we have to take belligerent people, or that we can't offer a rebuttal, but sometimes taking the high road is important.
 
Yeah, he will still absolutely amputate if that is the right medical decision, but if a repair is possible and reasonable, he'd rather repair it rather than owners just picking amputation because it's cheaper.
Edited to add: He actually always recommends referral to a board certified surgeon first, but not everyone is willing to go that route.

I have been surprised on clinics to see how emotional people get over amputations. On my surgery rotation we had two different individuals get extremely angry and then cry when we told them amputation was the most realistic option. There is an emotional thing there for some people that surprised me and I wasn't expecting. Maybe it's because I have seen amputee animals adapt so well, I don't know. In the end, one animal got an amputation of a birth deformity and the other owner remained adamant they save the leg to the tune of about $15,000 and four months in the hospital.

People are odd. I remember when I was a tech that we had a little dog in for a broken leg and the vet had basically told this owner that the leg needs to be surgically repaired (via referral) or amputated, that bandaging could be tried but probably wouldn't work and over the time it takes would take longer to heal and more money and work for the owner. Well, the owner didn't want to do surgery on the animal. She wasn't concerned about the cost, she, "didn't want to deal with the recovery period" despite numerous vets in the clinic telling her that the recovery via bandaging would be much longer than that of surgery or amputation. She was completely adamant about not doing any surgery at all. The dog's leg never healed with bandaging and she wanted to euthanize the dog. She also kept refusing to keep the dog quiet and kenneled so that probably didn't help.
 
I wrote a response on my FB page...feel free to steal if any of you are so inclined.
 
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I'll just buy another, more subtle car silly...like a Camaro
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I have been surprised on clinics to see how emotional people get over amputations. On my surgery rotation we had two different individuals get extremely angry and then cry when we told them amputation was the most realistic option. There is an emotional thing there for some people that surprised me and I wasn't expecting. Maybe it's because I have seen amputee animals adapt so well, I don't know. In the end, one animal got an amputation of a birth deformity and the other owner remained adamant they save the leg to the tune of about $15,000 and four months in the hospital.

It's important to remember that human amputation is a highly emotional thing. I bring up to owners that dogs with three legs don't look at themselves in the mirror everyday, and other dogs don't think their ugly for it. And most owners don't realize that it's not as debilitating for animals as it can be for people. It also helps to point out that if the animal isn't using the limb, it's already functionally three legged anyway.
 
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It's important to remember that human amputation is a highly emotional thing. I bring up to owners that dogs with three legs don't look at themselves in the mirror everyday, and other dogs don't think their ugly for it. And most owners don't realize that it's not as debilitating for animals as it can be for people. It also helps to point out that if the animal isn't using the limb, it's already functionally three legged anyway.

Similarly, enucleation is hard for people to wrap their brains around, even though we all know that cats and dogs adapt very well to the loss of one, or even both, eyes. I had a sad case with a cat that I dx'd bilateral anterior luxation. It had been vocalizing for weeks. It had been blind for years, so there wasn't any reason not to just take the eyes out so at least it wasn't in pain. In spite of the fact that it was <already blind> and in considerable pain (at least, presumably, based on what people report + the vocalization), the owners couldn't get comfortable with bilateral enuc, so they took the cat home that way saying they'd consider it (but it was one of those where they say that and you know they aren't going to do it).

Still makes me sad to think about. A quick procedure and the pain would go away and the cat's quality of life would be <dramatically> improved. :( And who knows, they're probably out there on FB talking about the evil vet and vet student who wanted to take both the eyes out.
 
LIS, that is so sad to read. That poor cat. :(

I've been on my mother's case forever to get one of our dog's eyes enucleated since she lost sight years ago do to trauma and it has to be cleaned of gunk everyday. The dog doesn't enjoy it, my mom doesn't enjoy it, yet she doesn't want to spend the money since the dog is 13. Not that it shouldn't have been done 4 years ago!

I wish I was at the point where I could just do it myself where I work because my family is so ****ing cheap when it comes to medical care for the dogs when we are plenty well off and I harbour a no small amount of resentment for it.
 
Still makes me sad to think about. A quick procedure and the pain would go away and the cat's quality of life would be <dramatically> improved. :( And who knows, they're probably out there on FB talking about the evil vet and vet student who wanted to take both the eyes out.

Or who made their poor, poor cat suffer because he wanted money for the procedure. And how, if he really cared about animals he would have done it for free so poor kitty didn't have to suffer.

Those are the one's that make my eye twitch.
 
Here's my rebuttal:
"The day teachers, farmers, construction workers, car mechanics and human doctors work for free is the day I will work as a vet for free." (Because then I could afford to!)

edit: maybe add in airplane pilots in there, because I need a vacation sometimes.
 
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I think the dichotomy between vet care and the growing trend as seeing pets as family is pretty interesting. On one hand, people are using "furbaby" and think their pets are more important to them than some extended family, but then balk at the sense of spending money to care for them. It is almost hypocritical to see people call their pets their children, and then refuse to spend the 15 bucks on rimadyl for their dog that just went through a dental. Would you do that for your human child? Probably not. But then I also don't really like the idea of people considering animals on the same level of human children, either. So it might just be me there.

This also goes back to the whole, "You should get paid what you're worth" mentality. Vets shouldn't get paid more just because we have atrocious debt, but because we are valuable members of society, say compared to a cashier. If you got paid the average salary of a vet where I am at (55-60k, which comes out to 26.96$-29.41$ per hour), that would only be paid slightly less than double what a lot of people want to be paid (15$ an hour). Do people really think that veterinarians are only worth (to society) twice what some fast food employees think they're worth? (Sorry if that last sentence sounds heartless; I had issues trying to phrase that).
 
I think the dichotomy between vet care and the growing trend as seeing pets as family is pretty interesting. On one hand, people are using "furbaby" and think their pets are more important to them than some extended family, but then balk at the sense of spending money to care for them. It is almost hypocritical to see people call their pets their children, and then refuse to spend the 15 bucks on rimadyl for their dog that just went through a dental. Would you do that for your human child? Probably not. But then I also don't really like the idea of people considering animals on the same level of human children, either. So it might just be me there.

This also goes back to the whole, "You should get paid what you're worth" mentality. Vets shouldn't get paid more just because we have atrocious debt, but because we are valuable members of society, say compared to a cashier. If you got paid the average salary of a vet where I am at (55-60k, which comes out to 26.96$-29.41$ per hour), that would only be paid slightly less than double what a lot of people want to be paid (15$ an hour). Do people really think that veterinarians are only worth (to society) twice what some fast food employees think they're worth? (Sorry if that last sentence sounds heartless; I had issues trying to phrase that).

I think there are a whole bunch of factors, including (randomly): 1) The disconnect between the value some people place on pets/animals versus the other (so there's no real uniform societal value). This exists within some families, too, so it really sets up conflict (how often have you seen one of the owners be like "let's just euthanize" and the other is all "do anything!"). 2) People don't actually pay much out of pocket for <most> of their own health care. Yeah, there are plenty of exceptions, so all of you that have high deductibles can simmer down - but generally, the costs are frequently 'hidden' from people. 3) A bit of internal guilt - they didn't set aside money for Fluffy's FB surgery, they don't have the cash handy, they feel guilty, so they take it out on us. 4) Genuine sticker shock - they don't <expect> the FB surgery to cost $1k-$4k, so of course they're shocked. 5) The 'car mechanic' problem: I have no clue if/when I'm being totally ripped off by my car mechanic because I don't know jack about cars. He could tell me my car's warp core needs replacing and I'd be like "Ok, sure, dude, how much will that cost? And when did they start putting those in, anyway?" People feel some of that with vet med - they don't understand it, so they don't know how to assess what's necessary, reasonable, appropriate, etc. They feel like they could be taken advantage of, so they worry they ARE being taken advantage of.

Combine all those and yeah, they'll say stupid things.

I don't really blame most people when they pull this stuff out. It is what it is and they're frustrated and so they react poorly. Occasionally when one really pushes .... I had one guy that went over the line and got aggressive about it, and I flat out asked him if he would give my kids free piano lessons (he was a music teacher) because he must care about teaching music, right? (No, it didn't go over well. No, I didn't expect it to go over well. I was kinda beyond caring and I let it get to me.) People like the Fenton article are, in my opinion, "over the line" .... because he's gone from exam-room frustration that is understandable to taking it out on vets in the public media when he had allllll the chance in the world to go get more information and present a balanced opinion.
 
This also goes back to the whole, "You should get paid what you're worth" mentality. Vets shouldn't get paid more just because we have atrocious debt, but because we are valuable members of society, say compared to a cashier. If you got paid the average salary of a vet where I am at (55-60k, which comes out to 26.96$-29.41$ per hour), that would only be paid slightly less than double what a lot of people want to be paid (15$ an hour). Do people really think that veterinarians are only worth (to society) twice what some fast food employees think they're worth? (Sorry if that last sentence sounds heartless; I had issues trying to phrase that).
we don't live in that society. IMO. it is a poor argument, and not going to convince anyone.
 
I think the dichotomy between vet care and the growing trend as seeing pets as family is pretty interesting. On one hand, people are using "furbaby" and think their pets are more important to them than some extended family, but then balk at the sense of spending money to care for them. It is almost hypocritical to see people call their pets their children, and then refuse to spend the 15 bucks on rimadyl for their dog that just went through a dental. Would you do that for your human child? Probably not. But then I also don't really like the idea of people considering animals on the same level of human children, either. So it might just be me there.

This also goes back to the whole, "You should get paid what you're worth" mentality. Vets shouldn't get paid more just because we have atrocious debt, but because we are valuable members of society, say compared to a cashier. If you got paid the average salary of a vet where I am at (55-60k, which comes out to 26.96$-29.41$ per hour), that would only be paid slightly less than double what a lot of people want to be paid (15$ an hour). Do people really think that veterinarians are only worth (to society) twice what some fast food employees think they're worth? (Sorry if that last sentence sounds heartless; I had issues trying to phrase that).

See, but it's not like people aren't spending money on pets. I work at a pet store currently, and people will readily buy huge bags of ridiculously expensive gluten free, grain free, organic (etc, etc) dog food for their dogs, they will spend tons on toys, treats, collars, what have you... I mean, some of these dog foods cost over 50$ for a large bag. But if you suggest they take their dog with an ear infection to the vet...
 
I think there are a whole bunch of factors, including (randomly): 1) The disconnect between the value some people place on pets/animals versus the other (so there's no real uniform societal value). This exists within some families, too, so it really sets up conflict (how often have you seen one of the owners be like "let's just euthanize" and the other is all "do anything!"). 2) People don't actually pay much out of pocket for <most> of their own health care. Yeah, there are plenty of exceptions, so all of you that have high deductibles can simmer down - but generally, the costs are frequently 'hidden' from people. 3) A bit of internal guilt - they didn't set aside money for Fluffy's FB surgery, they don't have the cash handy, they feel guilty, so they take it out on us. 4) Genuine sticker shock - they don't <expect> the FB surgery to cost $1k-$4k, so of course they're shocked. 5) The 'car mechanic' problem: I have no clue if/when I'm being totally ripped off by my car mechanic because I don't know jack about cars. He could tell me my car's warp core needs replacing and I'd be like "Ok, sure, dude, how much will that cost? And when did they start putting those in, anyway?" People feel some of that with vet med - they don't understand it, so they don't know how to assess what's necessary, reasonable, appropriate, etc. They feel like they could be taken advantage of, so they worry they ARE being taken advantage of.

Combine all those and yeah, they'll say stupid things.

I don't really blame most people when they pull this stuff out. It is what it is and they're frustrated and so they react poorly. Occasionally when one really pushes .... I had one guy that went over the line and got aggressive about it, and I flat out asked him if he would give my kids free piano lessons (he was a music teacher) because he must care about teaching music, right? (No, it didn't go over well. No, I didn't expect it to go over well. I was kinda beyond caring and I let it get to me.) People like the Fenton article are, in my opinion, "over the line" .... because he's gone from exam-room frustration that is understandable to taking it out on vets in the public media when he had allllll the chance in the world to go get more information and present a balanced opinion.

I agree with all of this to a certain extent. Probably what I don't agree with is the social "ignorance" as a whole. It goes back to your example of the mechanic thing. While I don't think everyone should be an expert in everything (totally impossible), I don't really see it as an excuse either. With how much information is available through various reliable sources, I feel like over-reaction in a lot (not all) situations is unnecessary and immature. In the case of vet med, clients have the ability to get a second opinion. That's true in almost every profession.

we don't live in that society. IMO. it is a poor argument, and not going to convince anyone.

Not really trying to convince people, just more of a personal internal feeling towards the situation. The problem would then be that we don't live in a society like that, where the best at what they do get the best compensation (no matter what that compensation is). The best example I can think of is when I argued with a cousin about cancer research. she is of the opinion that we should have cured cancer by now with how much money has been sent towards research. I got engaged in a discussion with her on how that is an unrealistic expectation. She tried to switch gears by saying that more money needs to be devoted to research then and that extra money should come out of the pockets of those running things like the American Cancer Society. I countered that he makes just over 2 million dollars which I feel is pretty fair considering he runs a society that makes approximately 160 million a year. After taxes, he doesn't stay at 2 million. I don't think it's unfair certain CEOs make millions (though not all) because they are in charge of running multi-million to multi-billion dollar companies. They're being paid what they're worth in my opinion.

See, but it's not like people aren't spending money on pets. I work at a pet store currently, and people will readily buy huge bags of ridiculously expensive gluten free, grain free, organic (etc, etc) dog food for their dogs, they will spend tons on toys, treats, collars, what have you... I mean, some of these dog foods cost over 50$ for a large bag. But if you suggest they take their dog with an ear infection to the vet...

I fell you. My family owns pet stores and I see people buying ridiculously expensive stuff too. Again, it goes back to the "ignorance" that I mentioned above. People think that X brand of dog food is more important than a yearly check-up. With how much information is available out there, I don't think that is an excuse to blame the vet world for how much stuff costs and to not spend money in that area that is far more important to their pet's well being.
 
I think trust is a big part of the problem. In my (very limited) experience, it seems like the people who have a relationship with the vet usually trust them and, while there might be some sticker shock, generally go with the vet's recommendation. But there are a lot of people who only come in when there is something seriously wrong with their pet. Otherwise they take them to vax clinics at the big box stores, and buy their flea medicine online (if at all). They have no relationship with a veterinarian, and the trust just isn't there.

I also think there's some consumerist mentality at work as well. The things they buy for their pets make them feel good about themselves - they like the feeling of giving their pet the best food, coolest toys, clothes, etc. They get a lot of positive reinforcement for those purchases - feelings of status, reinforcement from friends. There's no reward like that for spending $$$ at the vet. I feel like that's why I've seen people spend $2k on a puppy, then never bring them in for vaccinations, and refuse to pay for the treatment when the puppy gets parvo.
 
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What an irresponsible and biased article...
 
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I think trust is a big part of the problem. In my (very limited) experience, it seems like the people who have a relationship with the vet usually trust them and, while there might be some sticker shock, generally go with the vet's recommendation. But there are a lot of people who only come in when there is something seriously wrong with their pet. Otherwise they take them to vax clinics at the big box stores, and buy their flea medicine online (if at all). They have no relationship with a veterinarian, and the trust just isn't there.

I also think there's some consumerist mentality at work as well. The things they buy for their pets make them feel good about themselves - they like the feeling of giving their pet the best food, coolest toys, clothes, etc. They get a lot of positive reinforcement for those purchases - feelings of status, reinforcement from friends. There's no reward like that for spending $$$ at the vet. I feel like that's why I've seen people spend $2k on a puppy, then never bring them in for vaccinations, and refuse to pay for the treatment when the puppy gets parvo.

A lot of people are very susceptible to marketing, too. One blue buffalo commercial and they're sold on the idea their dog needs to be eating like a wild wolf, etc. I've spoken with older women who buy the expensive stuff for their dogs, but can barely afford to feed themselves.

I think that's why it's important (well, one reason) for vets to--in a highly professional manner, of course--get involved on social media, if only on a clinic page, etc. Obviously you have to be careful, but lots of clinics have facebook pages now, etc.
 
I think trust is a big part of the problem. In my (very limited) experience, it seems like the people who have a relationship with the vet usually trust them and, while there might be some sticker shock, generally go with the vet's recommendation. But there are a lot of people who only come in when there is something seriously wrong with their pet. Otherwise they take them to vax clinics at the big box stores, and buy their flea medicine online (if at all). They have no relationship with a veterinarian, and the trust just isn't there.

I also think there's some consumerist mentality at work as well. The things they buy for their pets make them feel good about themselves - they like the feeling of giving their pet the best food, coolest toys, clothes, etc. They get a lot of positive reinforcement for those purchases - feelings of status, reinforcement from friends. There's no reward like that for spending $$$ at the vet. I feel like that's why I've seen people spend $2k on a puppy, then never bring them in for vaccinations, and refuse to pay for the treatment when the puppy gets parvo.

Yup, it's like anything in life. There's fun and excitement and joy in spending money on things you WANT. Only disdain for spending money for things you need.

People are happy to pay for their cable TV. They resent paying their heating bill.

People are happy to pay for their luxury cars. They resent the high insurance and maintenance costs associated with it.

It's human nature.
 
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As much as it hurts when people use the, "well, if you loved animals you'd do this for free", I don't think people actually believe we should work for free. I think it is almost a reaction without thought. You have an owner who really wants to help their ailing pet and they see the cost, get frustrated with knowing they can't afford that price and just respond. I think it is more a reflex for most people (there are definitely some that think they should get everything they want and for the price they want it at, but I really think they are a minority, the guy who wrote this article would be in the minority).

When I worked as a tech, we were actually responsible for discussing finances with the client, not the vet. The vet would explain to the client what they recommend and then send the techs in with the estimate. I learned very quickly how to handle the whole, "well, if you loved animals you would do this for free" and the answer is to not turn it back on them. The worst thing to say is "would you work for free?" It only further frustrates people and raises the tension for both yourself and the client. If you take the time to understand where the client is coming from, understand their financial concerns, explain alternate treatment options and remain non-judgmental, things tend to work out really well. It is hard however to not reflexively want to react to those words questioning if we actually care. Of course we care. And clients will be able to see that you care if you remain calm and don't turn things back around on them.
 
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As much as it hurts when people use the, "well, if you loved animals you'd do this for free", I don't think people actually believe we should work for free. I think it is almost a reaction without thought. You have an owner who really wants to help their ailing pet and they see the cost, get frustrated with knowing they can't afford that price and just respond. I think it is more a reflex for most people (there are definitely some that think they should get everything they want and for the price they want it at, but I really think they are a minority, the guy who wrote this article would be in the minority).

When I worked as a tech, we were actually responsible for discussing finances with the client, not the vet. The vet would explain to the client what they recommend and then send the techs in with the estimate. I learned very quickly how to handle the whole, "well, if you loved animals you would do this for free" and the answer is to not turn it back on them. The worst thing to say is "would you work for free?" It only further frustrates people and raises the tension for both yourself and the client. If you take the time to understand where the client is coming from, understand their financial concerns, explain alternate treatment options and remain non-judgmental, things tend to work out really well. It is hard however to not reflexively want to react to those words questioning if we actually care. Of course we care. And clients will be able to see that you care if you remain calm and don't turn things back around on them.
Very well said! I think many of us know this and hopefully practice it. It's easy to come on SDN and vent though and say things that you wish you could say to clients, but ultimately we get farther with compassion.
 
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I agree with all of this to a certain extent. Probably what I don't agree with is the social "ignorance" as a whole. It goes back to your example of the mechanic thing. While I don't think everyone should be an expert in everything (totally impossible), I don't really see it as an excuse either. With how much information is available through various reliable sources, I feel like over-reaction in a lot (not all) situations is unnecessary and immature. In the case of vet med, clients have the ability to get a second opinion. That's true in almost every profession.



I fell you. My family owns pet stores and I see people buying ridiculously expensive stuff too. Again, it goes back to the "ignorance" that I mentioned above. People think that X brand of dog food is more important than a yearly check-up. With how much information is available out there, I don't think that is an excuse to blame the vet world for how much stuff costs and to not spend money in that area that is far more important to their pet's well being.

I don't think it is really "ignorance" to be honest. Yes, some of it is, but I think it is more that if you look up things on the internet there is TOO much information out there. And a good majority of this information is inaccurate. I also think that people don't realize how much emergency vet care can cost. We are looking at doing more things within veterinary medicine than we did 10-20 years or more ago. It has drastically changed and the public is just now starting to realize it. We didn't have digital xrays 10 years ago (not as much as we do now, when I first started working we were still using film). People didn't take their pets to specialists as much as they do now. The services that we can offer are increasing and because of that, so is the cost. There really isn't much information out there for people to find that discusses what all vet med can do for their pets as well as the associated costs. It really, to me, isn't as much an "ignorance" as that information isn't really put out there by vets much. You can find a ton of information on diseases, conditions, treatments, etc, but nothing on how much that might cost a person.

I think it would do both clients and veterinarians a bunch of good if we discussed things like emergency care or even possible specialist care at a puppy/kitten visit. Maybe not the first puppy/kitten visit, necessarily. However, if you explain to a client with their new pet that it is a good idea to have an emergency fund for their pet and explain why, then they are prepared or at least have been informed of this. It doesn't have to be an in-depth conversation either, just a mention of, "it is a good idea to have either pet health insurance (provide a few different brochures for various companies) or an emergency fund for Fluffy. Should Fluffy need emergency care, this can get expensive and you will be very happy to have the financial resource if it is needed." Create a "new pet" information packet that has multiple brochures and handouts on important things (flea/tick, hw, vaccines, pet health insurance, etc). Will the clients ever read it? Maybe not, but some will.
 
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I also think there's some consumerist mentality at work as well. The things they buy for their pets make them feel good about themselves - they like the feeling of giving their pet the best food, coolest toys, clothes, etc. They get a lot of positive reinforcement for those purchases - feelings of status, reinforcement from friends. There's no reward like that for spending $$$ at the vet. I feel like that's why I've seen people spend $2k on a puppy, then never bring them in for vaccinations, and refuse to pay for the treatment when the puppy gets parvo.

All right, let's put our heads together to think of a way to incorporate material status bragging rights into visiting the vet. Maybe special collar charms for visits. "Congratulations, this is your tenth time here! Have this bedazzled heart charm for Fluffy's collar!" A super jingly collar = someone who can afford to go to the vet for every little thing. Boom! Jingly pet collars become the new Rolex.
 
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In my experience, I haven't had the "You should do this for free" as much as I've had "You're charging me out the a** to pay for a big house and a nice car!" It's pretty hard (for me anyways) to calm that argument down without telling the client personal information about the doctor that is none of their business (that beater out in the lot is the DOCTOR'S!).

Just reading the first few paragraphs of this article has me eye-rolling. I have explained to a lot of people why they think veterinary care is so outrageously price: because they rarely see the price of their own health care if they have any insurance at all. Yeah, health insurance can be expensive. But when you're repairing a fractured leg on a kid for $10k+ or having a baby for $15-20k+, you don't always see past your deductible, which usually isn't more than $5000 (that I've seen). Repairing a fractured leg on your dog might be $1000 or something, and people lose their minds. For example, my deductible to see a specialist is $25. I never see how much the office visit actually costs and how much the doctor charges for her time. 48 hours of hospitalization and around the clock care for $1000 isn't too bad, especially for an emergency clinic. A lot of people don't realize that $1000 is the entire bill, but they pay a fraction of their medical bills without seeing the remainder.

The author also makes it seem like CareCredit is some sort of scam to get more money in a vet's pocket. No...the clinics get more revenue because CareCredit is making unaffordable procedures something that clients can actually consider now, although interest is never fun. My clinic even goes so far as to suggest looking into pet insurance for certain breeds right off the bat, and then dogs that have a history of shredding blankets and shoes and such. It's an important conversation to have.
This also goes back to the whole, "You should get paid what you're worth" mentality. Vets shouldn't get paid more just because we have atrocious debt, but because we are valuable members of society, say compared to a cashier. If you got paid the average salary of a vet where I am at (55-60k, which comes out to 26.96$-29.41$ per hour), that would only be paid slightly less than double what a lot of people want to be paid (15$ an hour). Do people really think that veterinarians are only worth (to society) twice what some fast food employees think they're worth? (Sorry if that last sentence sounds heartless; I had issues trying to phrase that).
I've brought this up a long time ago, but being told "Veterinarians are of a lower social status, and that's why they deserve crappy pay" will forever be burned into my brain. Veterinarians do deserve the same pay as human doctors. We just don't have any way to charge our clients the same prices human doctors charge theirs.
 
As much as it hurts when people use the, "well, if you loved animals you'd do this for free", I don't think people actually believe we should work for free. I think it is almost a reaction without thought. You have an owner who really wants to help their ailing pet and they see the cost, get frustrated with knowing they can't afford that price and just respond. I think it is more a reflex for most people (there are definitely some that think they should get everything they want and for the price they want it at, but I really think they are a minority, the guy who wrote this article would be in the minority).

When I worked as a tech, we were actually responsible for discussing finances with the client, not the vet. The vet would explain to the client what they recommend and then send the techs in with the estimate. I learned very quickly how to handle the whole, "well, if you loved animals you would do this for free" and the answer is to not turn it back on them. The worst thing to say is "would you work for free?" It only further frustrates people and raises the tension for both yourself and the client. If you take the time to understand where the client is coming from, understand their financial concerns, explain alternate treatment options and remain non-judgmental, things tend to work out really well. It is hard however to not reflexively want to react to those words questioning if we actually care. Of course we care. And clients will be able to see that you care if you remain calm and don't turn things back around on them.

You are absolutely right, and this is excellent advice :)
 
In my experience, I haven't had the "You should do this for free" as much as I've had "You're charging me out the a** to pay for a big house and a nice car!" It's pretty hard (for me anyways) to calm that argument down without telling the client personal information about the doctor that is none of their business (that beater out in the lot is the DOCTOR'S!).

There shouldn't be any reason to discuss personal information about the doctor or any of the employees. This "you are charging me out the ass to pay for blah, blah, blah," is still along the same lines as "you would do this for free if you cared". There is an underlying frustration there with the cost, the words don't matter so much as the underlying theme. Sometimes you have to just give them a moment when that is their reaction. Then calmly state, "I hear you are frustrated with the cost, let's discuss that together and come up with the best option for helping Fluffy without breaking your budget." There really should never be a need to discuss anything personal about any of the employees. It is about the client, their pet and helping their pet within their budget, whatever that may be. Keeping the discussion focused on Fluffy and the client and their needs will show that you care. If you start making it about what the vet is actually driving or what type of house they really live in, then you have stopped making it about the client and turned the discussion into something it doesn't need to be. It starts to make the discussion go down the line of trying to justify your costs because the vet has a crappy car or high debt or whatever. That isn't the time to be getting into those discussions. The client isn't going to feel bad that you have $200,000 in debt when they are worried about Fluffy's kidney failure.

Just reading the first few paragraphs of this article has me eye-rolling. I have explained to a lot of people why they think veterinary care is so outrageously price: because they rarely see the price of their own health care if they have any insurance at all. Yeah, health insurance can be expensive. But when you're repairing a fractured leg on a kid for $10k+ or having a baby for $15-20k+, you don't always see past your deductible, which usually isn't more than $5000 (that I've seen). Repairing a fractured leg on your dog might be $1000 or something, and people lose their minds. For example, my deductible to see a specialist is $25. I never see how much the office visit actually costs and how much the doctor charges for her time. 48 hours of hospitalization and around the clock care for $1000 isn't too bad, especially for an emergency clinic. A lot of people don't realize that $1000 is the entire bill, but they pay a fraction of their medical bills without seeing the remainder.

This is something that people just don't notice. It is unfortunate that people are so out of touch what their doctor actually costs. With this, there is a right time and a wrong time to discuss this with a client when they say, "even my dr. isn't this expensive." If they are saying that rudely because they are frustrated and upset, not the time to be hashing out why that is. However, if they genuinely ask (which I have had clients do), why it is more expensive, that is when I will explain the above.

The author also makes it seem like CareCredit is some sort of scam to get more money in a vet's pocket. No...the clinics get more revenue because CareCredit is making unaffordable procedures something that clients can actually consider now, although interest is never fun. My clinic even goes so far as to suggest looking into pet insurance for certain breeds right off the bat, and then dogs that have a history of shredding blankets and shoes and such. It's an important conversation to have.

CareCredit can kind of be a scam, or seen that way, if you aren't careful in explaining how it works. You need to be sure that you are telling clients how long they get interest-free payments for. After that point, CareCredit really is kind of a scam, they have some atrocious interest rates. It is best to explain this to clients beforehand so that they aren't shocked by it later when they get smacked with the absurd interest charges. And inform them of the high interest rates before they apply.. make sure they are understanding of it. Most people are just needing to spread the bill out over 3-4 months, so carecredit is great.


I've brought this up a long time ago, but being told "Veterinarians are of a lower social status, and that's why they deserve crappy pay" will forever be burned into my brain. Veterinarians do deserve the same pay as human doctors. We just don't have any way to charge our clients the same prices human doctors charge theirs.

Veterinarians will never (at least I don't think) be paid similar to human doctors. I am not even sure I would argue that they "deserve" to be paid as much. Heck yes, I would love to be paid as much, but with how animals are viewed within society and the wide range of attitudes, we won't ever see that salary. A human life will always be viewed as more important than an animal's life and that is why we will never see the same pay. I have been told many times that we are inferior, blah, blah, blah, so it is frustrating that people don't understand what all we can do, but we still aren't quite up to what human med can do. And that is mainly due to how society views animals vs. humans and how much money is allocated to research in veterinary medicine to allow us to grow and develop new treatments and procedures.
 
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Care credit is kind of a scam. If you don't pay it off within the first six months or whatever that is interest free, you owe a lot in interest. It is predatory at the very least
 
Yes, some of it is, but I think it is more that if you look up things on the internet there is TOO much information out there. And a good majority of this information is inaccurate.

There really isn't much information out there for people to find that discusses what all vet med can do for their pets as well as the associated costs. It really, to me, isn't as much an "ignorance" as that information isn't really put out there by vets much. You can find a ton of information on diseases, conditions, treatments, etc, but nothing on how much that might cost a person.

I think it would do both clients and veterinarians a bunch of good if we discussed things like emergency care or even possible specialist care at a puppy/kitten visit. Maybe not the first puppy/kitten visit, necessarily. However, if you explain to a client with their new pet that it is a good idea to have an emergency fund for their pet and explain why, then they are prepared or at least have been informed of this. It doesn't have to be an in-depth conversation either, just a mention of, "it is a good idea to have either pet health insurance (provide a few different brochures for various companies) or an emergency fund for Fluffy. Should Fluffy need emergency care, this can get expensive and you will be very happy to have the financial resource if it is needed." Create a "new pet" information packet that has multiple brochures and handouts on important things (flea/tick, hw, vaccines, pet health insurance, etc). Will the clients ever read it? Maybe not, but some will.

The first statement is why I said reliable sources in my response. I am a big advocate of not trusting a lot of information on the internet because of source conflicts and such. That's also why I mentioned that, for those who can afford it, second opinions are always an option.

I do see what you're saying on certain information being available to the public. That is a really good point.

I agree completely with everything in that last paragraph. That would be a great discussion to have with people when they get a new dog or cat so that people can have some semblance of preparedness even for the long run. I am actually already in the process in setting up an emergency fund starting this summer for my dogs because the new job I am getting in the fall will be salary with room and board included. since I will have the money, might as well put it in a fund or something just in case I need it.
 
The first statement is why I said reliable sources in my response. I am a big advocate of not trusting a lot of information on the internet because of source conflicts and such. That's also why I mentioned that, for those who can afford it, second opinions are always an option.

I do see what you're saying on certain information being available to the public. That is a really good point.

I agree completely with everything in that last paragraph. That would be a great discussion to have with people when they get a new dog or cat so that people can have some semblance of preparedness even for the long run. I am actually already in the process in setting up an emergency fund starting this summer for my dogs because the new job I am getting in the fall will be salary with room and board included. since I will have the money, might as well put it in a fund or something just in case I need it.

I'm also an advocate of not trusting anything you find on the internet but you can't expect the general public to adhere to that. They don't. People don't know what is credible information and what isn't. That's why you have so many people fighting against vaccines, GMO's, etc, because there is bad information out there that is being pushed as truth and some people cling to that information. You can't expect say your grandmother to know that what she is reading is reliable information from a proper source. And there is a lot of woo on the internet. Heck, people were insisting that lemon juice cures parvo a few years back and a lot of people believed it.
 
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There shouldn't be any reason to discuss personal information about the doctor or any of the employees. This "you are charging me out the ass to pay for blah, blah, blah," is still along the same lines as "you would do this for free if you cared". There is an underlying frustration there with the cost, the words don't matter so much as the underlying theme. Sometimes you have to just give them a moment when that is their reaction. Then calmly state, "I hear you are frustrated with the cost, let's discuss that together and come up with the best option for helping Fluffy without breaking your budget." There really should never be a need to discuss anything personal about any of the employees. It is about the client, their pet and helping their pet within their budget, whatever that may be. Keeping the discussion focused on Fluffy and the client and their needs will show that you care. If you start making it about what the vet is actually driving or what type of house they really live in, then you have stopped making it about the client and turned the discussion into something it doesn't need to be. It starts to make the discussion go down the line of trying to justify your costs because the vet has a crappy car or high debt or whatever. That isn't the time to be getting into those discussions. The client isn't going to feel bad that you have $200,000 in debt when they are worried about Fluffy's kidney failure.

This is something that people just don't notice. It is unfortunate that people are so out of touch what their doctor actually costs. With this, there is a right time and a wrong time to discuss this with a client when they say, "even my dr. isn't this expensive." If they are saying that rudely because they are frustrated and upset, not the time to be hashing out why that is. However, if they genuinely ask (which I have had clients do), why it is more expensive, that is when I will explain the above..

This. All of it.
 
I have been told many times that we are inferior, blah, blah, blah, so it is frustrating that people don't understand what all we can do, but we still aren't quite up to what human med can do.

You know what's funny....I most often find it is the general public saying **** like that. Every single MD or DO I have ever interacted with has been immensely respectful upon learning that I'm a vet.
 
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