Vital Question

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MattMVS7

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I struggle with depression and I have this philosophical question that I need an answer for. Actually, it might even be a scientific question.

Now I need to know the answer to this very vital question. I am thinking that there is only one way love, joy, happiness, and inspiration can be experienced. That being, through our reward system (our good moods). The more our reward system is functional and healthy, the more of those things we will have in our lives since our good moods would be greater. But like I said before, there is the difference between words and phrases and our mental states.

So by depressed people focusing on words and phrases alone of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration, they are only fooling themselves into thinking they are in love, joyful, happy, and inspired while depressed when they never were since depression as well as anhedonia are what turn off our reward system (our good moods). Even if they focused on the mental state of their thinking while depressed and told themselves that this is a form of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration, then they would be fooling themselves here as well since they are not in the actual mental state of having those things.

So they would be fooling themselves through this whole world of personally creating our own meanings in life and personally defining them for ourselves which would have to be false since there is only one way to experience those said things I've mentioned. There is only one way to experience the mental state of visualizing objects (sight) and perceiving sound (hearing). If you were to become blind and deaf, then your thoughts alone cannot give you that mental state.

If a blind and deaf person thought to his/herself that he/she still has sight and hearing, then that would not give him/her sight and hearing. That would only give him/her nothing more than the labels (words and phrases) of sight and hearing.

So there is only one function that gives us our mental states of visualizing objects and perceiving sound just as how there is also only one way to experience touch, smell, taste, etc. So in that same sense, there is also only one way to have good meaning, love, joy, happiness, and inspiration. There is only one function of our brains that can give us that. There is only one mental state that can give us those things. That being, the mental state of our good moods as I've said before.

If you are going to say something to me such as that we can have good meaning, love, joy, happiness, and inspiration through our way of thinking alone even while depressed and not in a good mood, then you have to prove to me how this is the actual mental state of having those things and not just the words and phrases of those things.

My question is, is my theory right or wrong? If it is wrong, then you are going to have to prove it wrong. You cannot just say that we can have those things in our lives while depressed. You have to do what the last paragraph above says. You have to prove to me how that is the actual mental state of perceiving those things.

In case I ever have to live my life depressed, then it is vital I find the answer. I am thinking that having good meaning in one's life is not just simply from knowing things. It is being in the mental state of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration in doing those things. For example, if you were not in any mental state of love, joy, happiness, or inspiration at all and were in a completely blank hopeless state and you just knew to yourself deep down that you have to go and save your family's life since they have good meaning to you, then they would not have any good meaning to you at all. You are telling yourself nothing more than just words and phrases of good meaning. The only way you can actually perceive them as having good meaning to you would be if you were in an inspired, happy, loving, and joyful mental state in saving their lives.

So, in short, since you were not in a good mood while saving their lives, then your family would actually have no good meaning to you in that given moment when you were depressed and in a blank mental state. For you to live your life just through knowing things while depressed and just thinking that has good meaning to you, that is living your life as an utterly inferior dead lifeless biological machine. It is our good moods that make us and our lives something. It is only our good moods that can give good meaning to our lives from our friends, family, and our goals/dreams. Therefore, even all the famous genius artists and composers who struggled with depression were nothing great. They and their lives were nothing great. Their works of art cannot mean anything to them during their depression and nor can the idea that they helped/inspired others all around the world and made their lives good. Nor can their own works of art mean anything good to them either.

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So...what is your question?

If your aiming to turn philosophical ideas into scientific discussion you need to operationalize the factors you're interested in. You need to do so clearly and concisely.

Of course I'll take a stab at it anyway. There's no research to support that depressed individuals have reward systems that are "off" or that the positive emotions experienced while depressed are qualitatively different than those experienced in normal moods. Instead, there is evidence for a blunting of affect; a difference in the degree of emotional experience. This discussion also needs to differentiate emotional experience from negative moods. People in a negative mood can still experience positive emotions, and not just via "thought;" the key differentiation, according to the affective dynamics literature, lies in the sustainment of positive emotional experiences rather than in the quality of the experience itself.
 
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Why is this "vital?"
 
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didn't we go through this already in your "Scientific Proof of Hedonism" thread?

But, just a point of clarification, there is evidence of reward system dysfunction in depressed individuals, depending on how you look at it. Decreased dopminergic activity in the Ventral Tegmentum and Nucleus Accumbens.
 
...fundamentally, there is a fallacy at play here: There is never only "one way." Reformulate your ideas/questions with that in mind.

Also, depression is unique to each person. We can only cluster manifest symptoms to understand how to better treat it. So while you talk about 'tricking' oneself by focusing on more positive thoughts, feelings, behaviors, etc. That strategy may not work for some, but be helpful with bouts/episodes for others.
 
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My question is, is my theory right or wrong? If it is wrong, then you are going to have to prove it wrong. You cannot just say that we can have those things in our lives while depressed. You have to do what the last paragraph above says. You have to prove to me how that is the actual mental state of perceiving those things.
 
My question is, is my theory right or wrong? If it is wrong, then you are going to have to prove it wrong. You cannot just say that we can have those things in our lives while depressed. You have to do what the last paragraph above says. You have to prove to me how that is the actual mental state of perceiving those things.

No one has to do ****, pal. Give it a rest.
 
No one has to do ****, pal. Give it a rest.

My theory has not been tested which is why there is no scientific evidence to support it. But if it were to be tested, then there could be whole new empirical evidence to support it.
 
My theory has not been tested which is why there is no scientific evidence to support it. But if it were to be tested, then there could be whole new empirical evidence to support it.
How could it be tested? It seems hard to operationalize to me.
 
MattMV, you started off this email saying that you are struggling with depression. I found your email a little bit difficult to follow. I wonder if talking with a therapist or a friend would be more useful than posting this emotional topic on an academic board like this?
 
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MattMV, you started off this email saying that you are struggling with depression. I found your email a little bit difficult to follow. I wonder if talking with a therapist or a friend would be more useful than posting this emotional topic on an academic board like this?

In case I ever have to live my life depressed, then it is vital I find the answer. I am thinking that having good meaning in one's life is not just simply from knowing things. It is being in the mental state of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration in doing those things. For example, if you were not in any mental state of love, joy, happiness, or inspiration at all and were in a completely blank hopeless state and you just knew to yourself deep down that you have to go and save your family's life since they have good meaning to you, then they would not have any good meaning to you at all. You are telling yourself nothing more than just words and phrases of good meaning. The only way you can actually perceive them as having good meaning to you would be if you were in an inspired, happy, loving, and joyful mental state in saving their lives.

So, in short, since you were not in a good mood while saving their lives, then your family would actually have no good meaning to you in that given moment when you were depressed and in a blank mental state. For you to live your life just through knowing things while depressed and just thinking that has good meaning to you, that is living your life as an utterly inferior dead lifeless biological machine. It is our good moods that make us and our lives something. It is only our good moods that can give good meaning to our lives from our friends, family, and our goals/dreams. Therefore, even all the famous genius artists and composers who struggled with depression were nothing great. They and their lives were nothing great. Their works of art cannot mean anything to them during their depression and nor can the idea that they helped/inspired others all around the world and made their lives good. Nor can their own works of art mean anything good to them either.
 
I would study Ellis - REBT both for your question and probably mental health needs
 
In case I ever have to live my life depressed, then it is vital I find the answer.

OK, let's drop the pretense that this is an intellectual discussion. You seem to be painting yourself into a philosophical corner, intentionally. Sometimes depression is like that. "I'll agree to be miserable as long as I don't have to risk leaving this box I've designated for myself." Does that sound familiar? It's a terrible place to be - I fell into that trap once, right in the middle of graduate school at that, and therapy helped me see it and find a way out. Please get professional help for yourself.
 
Also, getting a referral for a psychiatrist might not be a bad way to go. Your thoughts are all over the place.
 
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