Waitlisted everywhere, help evaluating for re-app?

[nOchemallday]

EDIT: Will be matriculating at UVA.

Disclaimer: this will be a long post. I'm asking for help, I want to make sure everything is open for straightforward evaluation.

My school list can be found on my MDapps including the general timeline of submitting materials (all but 2 secondaries submitted mid-late Aug).

I applied to a variety (caliber and mission) of schools, received 5 IIs which netted 4 waitlists and 1 High priority waitlist. Two of those waitlists (JHU and UVA) have very little movement, so it looks like the Philly schools are my best chance of getting in off the waitlist. I know there's still a chance this cycle, but, despite it being a "wait"-list, I'm not just gonna sit around and wait. I plan on preparing my re-app and submitting on June 3rd without spring grades (stupid quarter system). In red are my current thoughts on changes to my app.

Stats: 3.8+/3.8+ c/sGPA, (14PS/10VR/11BS) 35 MCAT, Double majors: Bio and Chem, ORM, traditional (maybe not anymore)

LORs: Committee Packet "Highly recommend" (scale is "do not rcmd", "rcmd", "highly rcmd", "highest rcmd") including 1 Lab PI (very strong), 1 Non-science prof (strong), 1 science prof (mediocre)

ECs:
Volunteer at hospital in PM&R primarily doing transport and helping physical therapy + prosthetics patients with workout maneuvers. Patient population has strong connection to my background. 1.5 yrs + 1 future (150+100 hrs)
Employment:
Intern/research assistant - chemical equipment manufacturer - 1 summer (480hrs)
Cashier/Food prep - high school + 1st summer of college (3100+400 hrs) Removing HS hours
Research: Analytical Chemistry lab - 1 year (500 hrs) *most meaningful* - Small lab, no pubs, no presentations Now 2 yrs (1000 total), maybe (still low likelihood) presentation by reapp
Athletics: Club ultimate frisbee (play for a national collegiate league) - 2 years + 1 future listed (650+300 hrs). Summer league frisbee - 4 years (140 hrs).
Leadership:
Was volunteer at soup kitchen, became student leader to help organize other student volunteers while I volunteered - 2 yrs (240 hrs) *most meaningful*
Founded in-team tutoring program for ultimate frisbee team and chemistry tutor - 1yr +1 future (100+100 hrs)
Shadowing: ENT (OR + office) and Academic radiologist - 24 hrs A clear weakness that I'm still working on improving. I exhausted all my connections to even get this much, but I'll find more for next app. Despite an apparent "lack" of shadowing, I feel that I can thoroughly describe my reasons for pursuing medicine as both a passion and a profession.
Honorable Mention - STEM writing award with publication in university anthology.

New: American Chemical Society member - give tours to accepted chemistry students and am a demonstrator for exhibits at events - 9mos (50hrs)

Note: had 1 Incomplete for upper-level analytical chemistry because of a broken instrument. Resolved before fall term and updated all schools post-interview with fall grades (4.0) including the completed grade.

PS: Reviewed by 4 people. Creative writing is not my strong suit, but objectively I'd rank it at about average to very slightly above-average (1 stellar paragraph). Plan on re-writing and asking for more sources to read. Likely submitting to SDN review as well.

Secondaries: I was feeling the burnout near the end, especially working full time and finishing my incomplete labwork/write-up. However, most of my interviews came from my later secondaries. I think my themes: diversity, greatest challenge/adversity, failure, etc. are good, but could use some buffing. Character limits were my greatest enemy the first time around.

Mock interviews: part of the committee packet recommendation involved two 30-min interviews. The advice given to me for straightforward "tell me about X" questions was to rehearse more (you read that correctly) and distill my feelings into specific examples to convey my message. For the "think on your feet"/"ethical" questions I was told I nailed it. As objectively as I can analyze it, I had a mediocre 1st interview and a rock solid 2nd one - leading to "highly recommend".

Real interviews: All of my school interviews were 1 student + 1 faculty interviews. My fairest assessment of these interviews was that I always "clicked" with 1 interviewer and rocked it, but then had a hard time with the other. Consequently, I'd say that all of my interviews were average to good, but only some were great and only 1 I would call excellent. Never 2 greats at the same school. I think this might be where I can significantly improve as well. More mock interviews with different people to help me prepare for the ones that don't "click" as easily. I was able to get some II's the first time around, I just need to capitalize. I also know I could be more knowledgable on the Affordable Care Act, but this only came up in 1 interview and may be low-yield.


I know there's still a chance this cycle, but a lot of movement happens in June which will be too late to apply at the absolute earliest for the worst-case scenario. Aside from finding the money to fund a re-app, my next biggest concern is what schools do I apply to? I guess I have some digging to do to figure out which schools look kindly on re-apps. (May edit to include said list in the future).

Any other thoughts on where I went wrong?

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[samsunimomo]

What in the world do students in your school have to do in order to get a "highest rcmd" in their committee letter?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Given the number and caliber of schools you interviewed at, I feel like your problem might have been your interviews. You have an extremely solid app that in all likelihood should have netted you an acceptance and I am very sorry that it did not. The only other thing I can think of is your "mediocre" letter of rec was mediocre enough that it hurt, but that's a nebulous assertion.

 

[nOchemallday]

What in the world do students in your school have to do in order to get a "highest rcmd" in their committee letter?

I think my 1st interview for the committee nudged me out of that category. They also asked for a draft PS and the one I had at the time (Feb) was absolute crap, which definitely didn't help.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm afraid the late application (around Aug submission) was what tanked your app. That and insufficient science letters (and possible bad/mediocre science letter)

Your ECs and stats are good enough to be recognized by Top 20 though. I'll let adcoms add in to see what other flaws you have.

EDIT: i wouldn't lose hope though. Wait around May 15 (after when everyone will be holding one acceptance). The waitlist movement should improve and with your locality, you should definitely be accepted to one of those Philly schools at least.

 

[exmoderpina]

I'm afraid the late application (around Aug submission) was what tanked your app. That and insufficient science letters (and possible bad/mediocre science letter)

Your ECs and stats are good enough to be recognized by Top 20 though. I'll let adcoms add in to see what other flaws you have.

EDIT: i wouldn't lose hope though. Wait around May 15 (after when everyone will be holding one acceptance). The waitlist movement should improve and with your locality, you should definitely be accepted to one of those Philly schools at least.

I believe it's April 30th this cycle

 

[Lawpy]

I believe it's April 30th this cycle

Is it? More good news for OP (even if he already knows, but a reassurance helps).

 

[ridethecliche]

I'm afraid the late application (around Aug submission) was what tanked your app. That and insufficient science letters (and possible bad/mediocre science letter)

Your ECs and stats are good enough to be recognized by Top 20 though. I'll let adcoms add in to see what other flaws you have.

EDIT: i wouldn't lose hope though. Wait around May 15 (after when everyone will be holding one acceptance). The waitlist movement should improve and with your locality, you should definitely be accepted to one of those Philly schools at least.

The op certainly wasn't early but definitely wasn't late...

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

The op certainly wasn't early but definitely wasn't late...

+1 I'm seeing this as more of an interview problem, August certainly isn't late enough to straight tank an app.

 

[NickNaylor]

You have good numbers, so that isn't a problem. Your ECs as presented here seem pretty solid. I actually don't think you lack all that much clinical experience. Sure, more shadowing is a good thing if only for your own exploration, but I don't think that in and of itself is a "weakness" given your work in PM&R.

Based on the general trajectory of your cycle, I'm guessing you have problems in two areas - both of which you (kind of) identified. The first is your letters. I'm wondering if they're as strong as you think they are. That you had so many pre-interview rejections in your MDApps makes me think there's a problem with something in your app, especially given the fact that your ECs and numbers are actually pretty decent. You might also have problems in the written portions of your app, i.e., your PS and secondaries. However, you seem to be relatively good at assessing yourself, so I would tend to believe you if you don't think those were problematic.

The second issue is your interviews, which you yourself state probably didn't go as well as they could have. You see this in your cycle as the lack of post-interview acceptances. Unfortunately it's hard to say what the "problem" here might be without seeing the interviews first-hand.

My advice would be to 1) see if you can get a better sense of what your letters actually include. My sense is that these likely aren't as strong as you think. The second-tier committee letter, while unfortunate, likely isn't enough to sink you unless there's something concerning there. Second, see if you can improve your interview skills. It sounds like you're a relatively outgoing person based on your ECs, so I'm guessing you're not a complete weirdo. Were you nervous? Did you come across as somewhat "aggressive" in your interviews (i.e., trying to sell yourself too much)? There are many things that could've gone wrong, but based on how things turned out it seems to be something systemic rather than multiple flukes. I rarely recommend this, but in this case I would see if you can get in touch with the schools at which you're waitlisted to see if you can get any feedback on why you got the decisions that you did. Ultimately they're the ones that can provide you with the most useful information since they've seen your app in its entirety. Obviously wait to do that until there's very little chance of actually receiving an acceptance.

 

[breakintheroof]

@nOchemallday I'm sorry you're in this position. I agree with others that you have done a good postmortem on your application, and that with the work you're putting in and a bit more luck, you should be fine.

Let's take a look at your school list from this cycle. I have attempted to classify them, put interviews in blue, and indicated PA schools.

Reach (3):
Hopkins
Penn (PA)
Pitt (PA)

Target or "safety" (10):
Temple, Drexel, Jefferson (PA)
UVA
Penn State (PA)
Einstein
Ohio State (OOS)
Wake Forest
UVM (OOS like 99.8% of America)
NYMC

Low yield (5) [high applicant volume and/or few spots]:
Brown
Georgetown
BU
Tufts
Dartmouth

Hmmmm. This seems OK to me. You clearly did your research, put a good number of targets on there, and didn't include anything wacky. I tend to believe that some of the more popular "mid-tier" schools you've included are low-yield due to low acceptance/interview rates, but I would still say that your list has decent breadth. Five interviews is fewer than I would have expected, indicating there may be an issue on paper like @NickNaylor says. That would mean the Hopkins interview is a significant outlier, though.

At any rate, for your upcoming cycle, there are plenty of schools similar to these with which to rebuild your list. They are just located in other parts of the country. I would start with what's downstate of Valhalla, west of Columbus, or south of Winston-Salem.

 

[RutgersAR]

I agree with some of the above that there may be a red flag on your app that you are unaware of (or did not mention). I feel like there are 2-3 other schools that shouldn't have passed over you, or at least they shouldn't have been so quick to reject. I agree with contacting them later if the waitlists don't work out (maybe consider UVA earlier since they're in your stat range but have very little movement)

 

[BillrothI]

Mock interviews: part of the committee packet recommendation involved two 30-min interviews. The advice given to me for straightforward "tell me about X" questions was to rehearse more (you read that correctly) and distill my feelings into specific examples to convey my message. For the "think on your feet"/"ethical" questions I was told I nailed it. As objectively as I can analyze it, I had a mediocre 1st interview and a rock solid 2nd one - leading to "highly recommend".

Real interviews: All of my school interviews were 1 student + 1 faculty interviews. My fairest assessment of these interviews was that I always "clicked" with 1 interviewer and rocked it, but then had a hard time with the other. Consequently, I'd say that all of my interviews were average to good, but only some were great and only 1 I would call excellent. Never 2 greats at the same school. I think this might be where I can significantly improve as well. More mock interviews with different people to help me prepare for the ones that don't "click" as easily. I was able to get some II's the first time around, I just need to capitalize. I also know I could be more knowledgable on the Affordable Care Act, but this only came up in 1 interview and may be low-yield.

I had a similar experience at several schools last cycle: one exceptional interview and one mediocre one. I have to wonder if a single sub-optimal interview is enough to get you rejected. Any adcom insight would be appreciated!

The rest of your application is very impressive. I wish I could give you advice on how to improve your interview skills, but it's difficult to do so since I haven't figured it out for myself! Based on the results from your mock interviews, you may benefit from targeting schools that use the MMI. Off the top of my head: UCSD, UCLA, UC Davis, U of AZ, U of AZ - Phoenix, OHSU. I'm sure there are several others in the East as well.

That said, you are on enough waitlists to have a realistic shot of acceptance this cycle, so don't give up hope quite yet.

-Bill

 

[alphamine]

Does anyone know why he/she could possibly have been wait-listed? These are the kinds of stats I usually see SDN med students and docs recommend having; yet, this person was wait-listed at every school.

 

[sunflower18]

Can you go through the committee process again to try and get a better letter, or is that not allowed? If not, I would make the following changes next cycle, most of which have already been mentioned:
- Apply earlier
- Add more schools (your list from this cycle looks pretty good, but I'd definitely cast a wider net for the second time around)
- Practice interviewing more
- Double check your letters
- Have someone review your PS and activity descriptions

I'm really really sorry that you've been met only with waitlists That must be terribly disheartening, but you have a fantastic attitude about improving for next cycle! Major kudos for that

 

[KindofBlue]

I would have to agree with Lawper. The app submission for most applicants have been getting earlier and earlier.
When I applied for 2014, it took me almost a month to get verified even though I submitted my app 2 weeks after opening date.
I remember seeing somewhere that almost half (or a very large percentage) of the applicants submit their apps in the first few weeks.

 

[Vain Brother]

first of all, you'll probably get off one of the 5 waitlists you're on, so this won't matter

but it seems clear the problem is with your interviewing skills. you got 5 interviews out of 18 applications, and with your profile that's a pretty good yield. it's not your application. you've admitted yourself that your committee recommendation was possibly held back a bit by a poor interview, and also said that EACH of your med school interviews went less than stellar. this isn't rocket science

 

[MaybeDr]

Can you go through the committee process again to try and get a better letter, or is that not allowed? If not, I would make the following changes next cycle, most of which have already been mentioned:
- Apply earlier
- Add more schools (your list from this cycle looks pretty good, but I'd definitely cast a wider net for the second time around)
- Practice interviewing more
- Double check your letters
- Have someone review your PS and activity descriptions

I'm really really sorry that you've been met only with waitlists That must be terribly disheartening, but you have a fantastic attitude about improving for next cycle! Major kudos for that

Out of curiosity how does one double check letters if they are confidential?

Also is submitting at 6/26 really that late? Hell I would consider that early if I was talking about UG admissions.

 

[Lawpy]

Out of curiosity how does one double check letters if they are confidential?

Also is submitting at 6/26 really that late? Hell I would consider that early if I was talking about UG admissions.

OP's app was only complete when he submitted the secondaries in August, which i felt was rather late. Also, OP's MDApps suggest several secondaries were completed 3-4 weeks after being received. Iirc, that's not a good thing since several schools expect fast turnaround. A minor point to note, but others can add on.

 

[sunflower18]

Out of curiosity how does one double check letters if they are confidential?

Also is submitting at 6/26 really that late? Hell I would consider that early if I was talking about UG admissions.

I guess maybe ask the writers about them, or ask the committee. I more meant really think about if any of the writers could have said something incriminating.

 

[nOchemallday]

You have good numbers, so that isn't a problem. Your ECs as presented here seem pretty solid. I actually don't think you lack all that much clinical experience. Sure, more shadowing is a good thing if only for your own exploration, but I don't think that in and of itself is a "weakness" given your work in PM&R.

Based on the general trajectory of your cycle, I'm guessing you have problems in two areas - both of which you (kind of) identified. The first is your letters. I'm wondering if they're as strong as you think they are. That you had so many pre-interview rejections in your MDApps makes me think there's a problem with something in your app, especially given the fact that your ECs and numbers are actually pretty decent. You might also have problems in the written portions of your app, i.e., your PS and secondaries. However, you seem to be relatively good at assessing yourself, so I would tend to believe you if you don't think those were problematic.

So my estimation of the strength of my LORs is based on how emphatic my writers were when they agreed. (The typical "can you write me a strong letter?" and then judging how excited they were to actually write said letter) However, of my writers, the 2 "stronger" letters were written by people who don't have extensive knowledge of medical school LORs. I had considered that this may have been a problem early on in the cycle, but they've all written tons of LORs before. Is a medical school LOR expected to be that much different?

The second issue is your interviews, which you yourself state probably didn't go as well as they could have. You see this in your cycle as the lack of post-interview acceptances. Unfortunately it's hard to say what the "problem" here might be without seeing the interviews first-hand.

My advice would be to 1) see if you can get a better sense of what your letters actually include. My sense is that these likely aren't as strong as you think. The second-tier committee letter, while unfortunate, likely isn't enough to sink you unless there's something concerning there. Second, see if you can improve your interview skills. It sounds like you're a relatively outgoing person based on your ECs, so I'm guessing you're not a complete weirdo. Were you nervous? Did you come across as somewhat "aggressive" in your interviews (i.e., trying to sell yourself too much)? There are many things that could've gone wrong, but based on how things turned out it seems to be something systemic rather than multiple flukes. I rarely recommend this, but in this case I would see if you can get in touch with the schools at which you're waitlisted to see if you can get any feedback on why you got the decisions that you did. Ultimately they're the ones that can provide you with the most useful information since they've seen your app in its entirety. Obviously wait to do that until there's very little chance of actually receiving an acceptance.

I was also concerned with the fact that I was hit with so many rejections pre-II. Even after this cycle, I have to agree that something is off. If anything, it sounds like the fact that I even got interviews was the fluke. I may cold call/email some of those early rejections and ask if there's anything they can share about interpreting my app and why it was trashed so quick. I'll also ask the schools I'm waitlisted at when it gets to the end and there's no shot of getting in, but that'd be too late to make significant improvements on my primary if that's where the problem lies.

There are a lot of things that could be going wrong with my interviewing. As much as I want to solve this for myself, I think it'd be best to work with my career-counseling/premed department to get more advice on what's wrong with and how to improve my interviewing.

Thanks a ton for your advice/evaluation

 

[nOchemallday]

@ all the discussion about early/late. I think the August is "not early, but not late" is probably most accurate, but I agree that it seems like everyone is getting their application in earlier and earlier each year. Especially in response to @Lawper , turnaround/earliest possible submission is a a significant change I plan to make for next cycle and hope it makes even a slight difference.

 

[nOchemallday]

@nOchemallday I'm sorry you're in this position. I agree with others that you have done a good postmortem on your application, and that with the work you're putting in and a bit more luck, you should be fine.

Let's take a look at your school list from this cycle. I have attempted to classify them, put interviews in blue, and indicated PA schools.

Reach (3):
Hopkins
Penn (PA)
Pitt (PA)

Target or "safety" (10):
Temple, Drexel, Jefferson (PA)
UVA
Penn State (PA)
Einstein
Ohio State (OOS)
Wake Forest
UVM (OOS like 99.8% of America)
NYMC

Low yield (5) [high applicant volume and/or few spots]:
Brown
Georgetown
BU
Tufts
Dartmouth

Hmmmm. This seems OK to me. You clearly did your research, put a good number of targets on there, and didn't include anything wacky. I tend to believe that some of the more popular "mid-tier" schools you've included are low-yield due to low acceptance/interview rates, but I would still say that your list has decent breadth. Five interviews is fewer than I would have expected, indicating there may be an issue on paper like @NickNaylor says. That would mean the Hopkins interview is a significant outlier, though.

At any rate, for your upcoming cycle, there are plenty of schools similar to these with which to rebuild your list. They are just located in other parts of the country. I would start with what's downstate of Valhalla, west of Columbus, or south of Winston-Salem.

I can definitely agree with the "low yield" schools, I was very hesitant to even bother with BU/Georgetown. I was also hoping for more than 5, but I'll absolutely take what I can get. If it comes to 5 next year, I'm hoping improved interviewing skills will help convert those interviews into acceptances.

I guess it's time to see how far south and west I can drag my girlfriend along. There's also the issue of affording those longer trips, but I'll cross that bridge if I get to it. Total interview expenses this cycle (travel, lodging, and food): $84

Thanks

 

[DokterMom]

I think my 1st interview for the committee nudged me out of that category. They also asked for a draft PS and the one I had at the time (Feb) was absolute crap, which definitely didn't help.

• Can you get a new committee letter? -- With your improved PS and [hopefully] improved interview skills?
• I'd suggest you ask for a few more reviews on your personal statement. I'd have expected a few more II's also... If character counts are your enemy, definitely get some editing help. That's an easy one to fix.
• And do work on your interviewing. Clearly it's not awful, or you would have received a few rejections; but it's also not stellar or five interviews would have netted you an acceptance.

And good luck --

 

[breakintheroof]

I guess it's time to see how far south and west I can drag my girlfriend along. There's also the issue of affording those longer trips, but I'll cross that bridge if I get to it. Total interview expenses this cycle (travel, lodging, and food): $84

That makes sense. You were working under geographic limitations, Northeast minus NYC/Long Island. You did well in building your list under those conditions, and hopefully you will still get into a school in those boundaries this coming cycle.

In broadening your scope, I think there will be enough schools that aren't too far away, or too inaccessible, from the Northeast. Cities like Chicago, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, and St. Louis aren't quite as far as they seem if you're trying to keep in contact with friends and family. There are hopefully job or school opportunities for your girlfriend, too. But anyway, these are your personal considerations, and you'll figure it out. Good luck.

 

[nOchemallday]

Does anyone know why he/she could possibly have been wait-listed? These are the kinds of stats I usually see SDN med students and docs recommend having; yet, this person was wait-listed at every school.

Stats get you to the door. Who you are/everything else gets you through it.

+1 I'm seeing this as more of an interview problem, August certainly isn't late enough to straight tank an app.

first of all, you'll probably get off one of the 5 waitlists you're on, so this won't matter

but it seems clear the problem is with your interviewing skills. you got 5 interviews out of 18 applications, and with your profile that's a pretty good yield. it's not your application. you've admitted yourself that your committee recommendation was possibly held back a bit by a poor interview, and also said that EACH of your med school interviews went less than stellar. this isn't rocket science

Yup, I think interviewing is definitely the primary issue here with respect to acceptances. Sine I'm preparing to do it again, I have the time to fix any other issues as well though. The tough part (imho) is figuring out what those other issues are.

• Can you get a new committee letter? -- With your improved PS and [hopefully] improved interview skills?
• I'd suggest you ask for a few more reviews on your personal statement. I'd have expected a few more II's also... If character counts are your enemy, definitely get some editing help. That's an easy one to fix.
• And do work on your interviewing. Clearly it's not awful, or you would have received a few rejections; but it's also not stellar or five interviews would have netted you an acceptance.

And good luck --

Can you go through the committee process again to try and get a better letter, or is that not allowed? If not, I would make the following changes next cycle, most of which have already been mentioned:
- Apply earlier
- Add more schools (your list from this cycle looks pretty good, but I'd definitely cast a wider net for the second time around)
- Practice interviewing more
- Double check your letters
- Have someone review your PS and activity descriptions

The time to get a [new] committee letter for this year has already passed, but I think I'll contact my premed advisor and just ask if there's anything he can tell me about my packet/letters. I think both of these lists are great for moving forward. Thanks to both of you.

I'm really really sorry that you've been met only with waitlists That must be terribly disheartening, but you have a fantastic attitude about improving for next cycle! Major kudos for that

I had a similar experience at several schools last cycle: one exceptional interview and one mediocre one. I have to wonder if a single sub-optimal interview is enough to get you rejected. Any adcom insight would be appreciated!

The rest of your application is very impressive. I wish I could give you advice on how to improve your interview skills, but it's difficult to do so since I haven't figured it out for myself! Based on the results from your mock interviews, you may benefit from targeting schools that use the MMI. Off the top of my head: UCSD, UCLA, UC Davis, U of AZ, U of AZ - Phoenix, OHSU. I'm sure there are several others in the East as well.

That said, you are on enough waitlists to have a realistic shot of acceptance this cycle, so don't give up hope quite yet.

-Bill

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I really hope 5 lists are enough to get some good news by orientation week. I'm in this 'til the bitter end, but only time will tell the outcome.

 

[Lawpy]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I really hope 5 lists are enough to get some good news by orientation week. I'm in this 'til the bitter end, but only time will tell the outcome.

April just started, so I fully expect you to get in somewhere, whether be it the Philly schools (locality and that HPWL) or UVa (from the update letters you sent) (JHU is also possible but a little tough). It's good you're preparing early, but I wouldn't lose hope until around mid-May when nothing changed.

I read somewhere that 3 WL is the minimum threshold to achieve 1 acceptance (I guess this was the corollary to 3 II for 1 A?). So you have a strong chance of success. The problems in your app are more so due to a delay and possible lackluster LOR than the actual interview, otherwise you would've been rejected post-II, which you haven't. You have something that impressed the Top 20 but made OOS mid/low-tier schools be rather wary of you.

Anyways, wish you the best of luck.

 

[nOchemallday]

April just started, so I fully expect you to get in somewhere, whether be it the Philly schools (locality and that HPWL) or UVa (from the update letters you sent) (JHU is also possible but a little tough). It's good you're preparing early, but I wouldn't lose hope until around mid-May when nothing changed.

I read somewhere that 3 WL is the minimum threshold to achieve 1 acceptance (I guess this was the corollary to 3 II for 1 A?). So you have a strong chance of success. The problems in your app are more so due to a delay and possible lackluster LOR than the actual interview, otherwise you would've been rejected post-II, which you haven't. You have something that impressed the Top 20 but made OOS mid/low-tier schools be rather wary of you.

Anyways, wish you the best of luck.

I swear bolded was the most confusing part. And thanks!

EDIT: I swear bolded is the most confusing part.

 

[Rinya]

I guess it's time to see how far south and west I can drag my girlfriend along. There's also the issue of affording those longer trips, but I'll cross that bridge if I get to it. Total interview expenses this cycle (travel, lodging, and food): $84

Thanks

I'm extremely jealous of your expenses. I live in Alaska, which is not only OOS for everything except WWAMI/University of Washington, but also requires a minimum of a $800 plane ticket to get anywhere last minute (also meant I couldn't combine interviews if I wanted to save money and get tickets early!) My interview expenses for three OOS interviews and fortunately one IS interview were around $2500.

I do think your issues can be helped by applying to a more areas. I mostly applied Midwest since I had family ties, but most of my interviews were at places I didn't have any family ties, so they seemed like random fluke locations. Your application seems impressive and the only thing I can think of is maybe edit your PS and have an English teacher or someone who you know is good at creative writing edit it. Also check on the LOR situation. Possibly obtain one more letter from someone you know can write a strong one.

Best of luck! I hope you get off a Waitlist soon!

 

[Omppu27]

I believe it's April 30th this cycle

Is it? More good news for OP (even if he already knows, but a reassurance helps).

Had no idea that it changed either. Not that it matters since I only have one acceptance

 

[ridethecliche]

@nOchemallday let me know if you want another set of eyes to read your PS. I'd be happy to help read and edit.

Additionally, you NEED to practice your interviewing skills. That honestly bit me in the ass at one of my interviews, but I was able to regroup for others.

I would also write update letters to all your schools if you have any semblance of an excuse to do so.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

5/18 applications looks pretty good, but ALL waitlisted? Is it also due to those schools? jhu: a super reach (and likely to WL given your date), Temple, Drexel and Jefferson: super low/high # of apps. You should spread out a bit more. Did you apply to your uni? Look at the yields of the schools you applied. GT, Boston? Brown? Those get a huge number of applications. Try an even more diverse collection. Skip schools like UPenn.

Interviews also indicate a problem. Your description tells it all. You need to keep up the energy and be ready with an all day deal. Find an interesting story to tell. You know the type of questions you'll be asked.

 

[solitarius]

I'm hopeful your situation will work out this year.

My take is as follows:

- Bar to get in is higher these days. For example, 35 means less than it did. Lots of other paper-solid applicants who haven't gotten in or got into just one school. Count me as surprised, but not surprised given the trends.
- Bar to get in as a college senior is higher. More people are applying w/ tremendous research or clinical experience/accomplishments.
- Getting into JHU or UVa would've required an Oscar-level interview performance, but the 3 Philly schools are going to look at your total app ---> which goes back to my first 2 points.
- I think 5 II's out of 18 apps is a very good % in this environment. In light of the feedback above, it's fair to note that you got 3 interviews at high app ("low yield") schools.
- EC's. Some thing that really stuck out was that you listed an activity w/ 240 hours as a Most Important experience, above other activities where you spent far more time. I'll refer to my second point above.

My fairest assessment of these interviews was that I always "clicked" with 1 interviewer and rocked it, but then had a hard time with the other. Consequently, I'd say that all of my interviews were average to good, but only some were great and only 1 I would call excellent. Never 2 greats at the same school. I think this might be where I can significantly improve as well. More mock interviews with different people to help me prepare for the ones that don't "click" as easily.

As is now common wisdom, it's very difficult for people to assess how well they did on interviews. You're basing it on vibe, but what if that's how they structured it? What if the person you "clicked" with evaluated you poorly, while the less enthusiastic one rated you higher?

 

[nOchemallday]

@nOchemallday let me know if you want another set of eyes to read your PS. I'd be happy to help read and edit.

Additionally, you NEED to practice your interviewing skills. That honestly bit me in the ass at one of my interviews, but I was able to regroup for others.

I would also write update letters to all your schools if you have any semblance of an excuse to do so.

Hey, thanks for the offer.

I've been working with our career guidance center for interview help, but they're swamped with seniors trying to get jobs. I scheduled a mock interview for about a month out and am hoping I can rotate through a few different people in the dept to practice more over the summer.

I've also written updates to all but 1 school (they're ranked and said update letters/LORs won't help, but I'm curious if that's the real truth). Updates include grades + new activity + "continued interest". Not a true LOInterest, just a sentence reminding them that I exist. Pacing it to ~1 update/2months at each school. Wrote 2 to my #1 already since they were the first to get a decision back. This pace will likely lead to a combined Update/LOInterest on April 30 at all schools and an Update/LOIntent to #1. I know gyngyn has repeated (what seems like endlessly) how LOIntent means nothing, and I'm prepared to accept that it will probably just get thrown in the trash. But I'd rather send in updates/LOIs that do nothing than just do nothing myself - at least for my sanity.

 

[Doug Underhill]

You may also want to consider some books/lectures on med school interviews.

 

[Lawpy]

Hey, thanks for the offer.

I've been working with our career guidance center for interview help, but they're swamped with seniors trying to get jobs. I scheduled a mock interview for about a month out and am hoping I can rotate through a few different people in the dept to practice more over the summer.

I've also written updates to all but 1 school (they're ranked and said update letters/LORs won't help, but I'm curious if that's the real truth). Updates include grades + new activity + "continued interest". Not a true LOInterest, just a sentence reminding them that I exist. Pacing it to ~1 update/2months at each school. Wrote 2 to my #1 already since they were the first to get a decision back. This pace will likely lead to a combined Update/LOInterest on April 30 at all schools and an Update/LOIntent to #1. I know gyngyn has repeated (what seems like endlessly) how LOIntent means nothing, and I'm prepared to accept that it will probably just get thrown in the trash. But I'd rather send in updates/LOIs that do nothing than just do nothing myself - at least for my sanity.

That should certainly help. I'm still very confident you'll get an acceptance from a Philly school at least, and sending an LOI/update should certainly help with that.

Also, congrats on the 2+ year member badge! And I shall bring @WedgeDawg to help you out with his epic metric.

 

[nOchemallday]

5/18 applications looks pretty good, but ALL waitlisted? Is it also due to those schools? jhu: a super reach (and likely to WL given your date), Temple, Drexel and Jefferson: super low/high # of apps. You should spread out a bit more. Did you apply to your uni? Look at the yields of the schools you applied. GT, Boston? Brown? Those get a huge number of applications. Try an even more diverse collection. Skip schools like UPenn.

Interviews also indicate a problem. Your description tells it all. You need to keep up the energy and be ready with an all day deal. Find an interesting story to tell. You know the type of questions you'll be asked.

Hey, thanks for the response. As @solitarius points out below, JHU and UVA both fall into that reach category and I needed to be a lot more than I am to impress someone there; I'm actually quite happy I managed to not get a straight up rejection. As for the Philly triplets, I'm a PA resident. I know this means little for Jefferson, but Temple is one of the few PA schools that has a marginal preference for PA residents (50%, the only other 2 are Penn State, 59% -to which I also applied- and PA Commonwealth, 61% -to which I did not apply because I figured I would be screened out for yield protection). I did apply to my home institution. @breakintheroof did a solid breakdown of my school list w.r.t app #'s and diversification of school list. UPenn was, admittedly, a super reach. But I figured I should throw a few on the list, and with JHU it actually turned out positive.

Yea, I agree with the story telling part. In one of my interviews I was specifically told: "I like to hear stories, tell me a story about a time during your X activity." I think if I approached "What did you do here" questions with more stories instead of answers I might be able to gel better and also get to show more of my personality.

 

[nOchemallday]

I'm hopeful your situation will work out this year.

My take is as follows:

- Bar to get in is higher these days. For example, 35 means less than it did. Lots of other paper-solid applicants who haven't gotten in or got into just one school. Count me as surprised, but not surprised given the trends.
- Bar to get in as a college senior is higher. More people are applying w/ tremendous research or clinical experience/accomplishments.
- Getting into JHU or UVa would've required an Oscar-level interview performance, but the 3 Philly schools are going to look at your total app ---> which goes back to my first 2 points.
- I think 5 II's out of 18 apps is a very good % in this environment. In light of the feedback above, it's fair to note that you got 3 interviews at high app ("low yield") schools.
- EC's. Some thing that really stuck out was that you listed an activity w/ 240 hours as a Most Important experience, above other activities where you spent far more time. I'll refer to my second point above.

As is now common wisdom, it's very difficult for people to assess how well they did on interviews. You're basing it on vibe, but what if that's how they structured it? What if the person you "clicked" with evaluated you poorly, while the less enthusiastic one rated you higher?

Thanks for the hope. As time passes, I'm (irrationally) getting more hopeful about the 5 WL situation as well, but I don't want that to deter me from a solid re-app in case it doesn't pan out.
1. I agree, my biggest surprise of the cycle was GTLO. With his superstar app I was expecting a little more love, but I guess the game is just tougher(?) now.
2. Also agree, based on my hours you can tell I didn't really kick into gear until Soph year. I wish I had started earlier and landed more accomplishments instead of just X# of hours.
3. I think that's exactly how I landed in the situation I'm in. Stats and more research than clinical/community probably got me looks at the more elite institutions and the minimal amount of community involvment probably hurt me at the philly schools.
4. I'm also satisfied with 5/18, that's the statistical percentage I was expecting based on IS/OOS interview rates at each school. Was hoping for more, but I'm perfectly content with the 5 I got. ReA resident from above.
5. From AAMC on the Most Meaningful designation: "When writing your response, you might want to consider the transformative nature of the experience, the impact you made while engaging in the activity, and the personal growth you experienced as a result of your participation." As much as I love ultimate, it definitely doesn't fall under most meaningful.

I'm not basing my performance strictly on vibe, though that certainly plays a substantial role in my analysis. For instance, at one of my answers at the Hopkins interview, the interviewer literally said "wow, that's great answer" in response to my answer about a time that I failed. Somewhat related to your suggestion though, I've been thinking back to a comment Goro or gyngyn made on the weight each committee member holds. They had said something to the effect of "Certain members want to accept everyone, so the only time we are quick to agree is when that member rejects. And conversely a member that is harsh on everyone and always rejects, when s/he says accept, we know it's a strong applicant." I'm wondering if most of the people I clicked with are the generally more friendly quick-to-accept types that hold little weight.

 

[Markymark15]

Had similar stats, was accepted off the waitlist recently, 3 waitlists out of 6 interviews, definitely keep sending updates and interest letters, I think you will get in somewhere in May, good luck

 

[Lawpy]

Congrats to @nOchemallday for being accepted to UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA!!!!!

I knew you'll get accepted! 5 waitlists is a good indicator of being accepted somewhere and you got into an EXCELLENT school!!!!

 

[NeuResurgens]

One thing I noticed - your one science professor's letter, as you said, was "mediocre." Your PI's letter is valuable, except that for a lot of schools, it won't count as a true "science letter" if you didn't take a class with this professor. This might have been insufficient for some school's requirements. Besides this, the problem likely had to do with some interview issues.

EDIT: Wait, accepted to UVA?! That's a fantastic school!