(WAMC) Am I a good candidate for SMP?

[Abraxas305]

That's not really relevant

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[Buzzlightyear33]

I would definitely go DO before spending another year and more tuition on a program that offers a MD interview at best.

 

[Abraxas305]

Preference is MD which is why I want to do a SMP program. Should've clarified. I'm leaning towards clinical research and academia medicine right now and I feel that I'm not giving myself the best chance and/or a broader range of opportunities in the future if I apply DO. Making that decision down the road is very important for me in the future and really don't want any "what ifs" down the road.
Besides that, I would like to know, given my stats, if I'm a good candidate for any SMP's I listed.

 

[GrapesofRath]

1) Absolutely do not retake the MCAT. It will hurt you alot more than help you
2) That downward GPA trend is an issue. What makes you think you can thrive in an SMP when you have a 3.0 your last year of college?
3) I wouldn't worry about taking longer to graduate(5.5 is not all that long), especially given you were a CC transfer.

I'm emphasizing the second part because SMP programs are absolutely brutal and the expectations MD schools have for people who do them are very very high. It really is really really hard to beat out 2/3 or so of an MS1 class; there's a reason 2/3 of MS1's couldn't get the score you would need to. These MS1's are going to be largely 3.7-3.8 undergrad students and now they will be studying way way way more than they did in undergrad. You need to have a good reason you can beat them out; right now I don't see it.

Fortunately for you your MCAT is outstanding. Over half of applicants who applied with a 3.2-3.4 and 36-38 were accepted the past two years. It goes up to 75% for 3.4-3.6 and 36+. Now, many of these will have some form of upward trend and in some cases maybe an SMP so that number might be somewhat inflated. But the point here is that your stats aren't that far off for an MD. The bigger issue is you need to demonstrate you can be a good academic student. An SMP would do that but it is also a significant risk with brutal standards; don't beat out those MS1's and you are completely screwing any chances you have. In your situation, with a 37 MCAT my suggestion would be to do a year or so of a rigorous DIY post-bacc schedule. It's not about raising the numerical GPA too much; it's about showing an upward trend and that you can be a good student. The 37 MCAT gives you some slack and leeway with the GPA in some sense; take advantage of it. 2-3 semesters worth of aced DIY post-bacc upper level science courses even if it only gets your GPA up to 3.4 will help your case alot. Do that and if you apply with a 3.4/37, I think you have a reasonable shot with a broad list.

SMP's are last resort type of options; if you have another alternative path to becoming a reasonable MD candidate instead of an SMP, my belief is you should pursue that instead. With you, I think you do. I would only really start thinking about SMP's if after a DIY post-bacc and a cycle of MD applications you are unsuccessful.

To directly answer your question, you could easily get into an SMP. Hell, the one obstacle you might face is that your MCAT is so high some SMP programs might not deem it a great use of a spot to take someone like you when there are others who could benefit from an SMP much more. But you have to really consider whether or not it is truly worth it for you. In my opinion, I don't think it is; your MCAT is high enough that I really would try and just take a year of classes to show you are over that downward trend.

 

[Abraxas305]

Not of utmost importance

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thank you very much for your detailed response!

The downward trend in certainly troubling, coupled with taking a semester off and becoming part time for my last year (financial reasons), and you are right to assume that these programs would find the trend in GPA troubling. I would like to add that the downward trend was not purely due to academic regress, as I did have other extenuating circumstances that caused the GPA decline.

I just re-calculated my GPA according to AMCAS since I used another GPA calculator before and my GPA is lower at a 3.23 and sGPA 3.25. Now it's quite a bit below a 3.3. :/
I have ~134 graded credits and I calculated and even if I get 32 credits of BCPM worth of A's, my GPA and sGPA only rises up to a ~3.376. That's assuming I do get all A's of course. Even then, it's still low enough to get rejected when there are tons of other applicants with a much higher GPA and around the same MCAT.

Speaking of SMP's, I am well aware of the harsh academic rigors of an SMP. My cousin who had a slightly lower GPA and less-than-ideal study habits went through GT SMP 2 years ago and managed a 3.7 through grueling hard work. I do believe I am an exceptionally better student that I was before, partly due to long hours of MCAT studying for the past 5-6 months leading up to my exam. Although this not relatable to SMP or class success in general, I am extremely motivated to be the very best student I can be, jumping through the hurdles of premed and medical school eventually.

I do plan on applying to SMP's this cycle, but another question lingers. Would it better to do a "2 year" SMP, such as Tufts, Loyola/Boston MAMS, etc instead just to have something to fall back on just in case I'm not ready to apply that year? An exception for GT (if I get accepted) since they highly encourage applying to their med school during the SMP, I plan on applying to med schools the following year provided that I complete the first year. I am in no rush to get into med school at all, but I feel even doing well in a DIY post-bac in my small state school won't give me much notice, especially in FL or OOS.

Thanks for your opinion and it's definitely something I'll keep in mind throughout my SMP/post-bac applications in the coming months. Since I am working FT right now (40 hr/wk scribing), I am only planning on retaking Biochemistry and an upper level bio class for a total of 7 credits next semester. From there, I'll see what happens.

Also, still looking at whether my stats/trend/story is enough to be competitive for these SMP's. I would still love to get feedback on the SMP's I listed (or any others) from people who are currently in or finished a program and people who have gotten into med schools doing an SMP. I'd also love to hear comments on the rigor, coursework, stress, etc during the SMP year.

Honestly if yon can pull up your GPA to 3.35/37 I think that is the best option for you. The numerial GPA isn't the biggest issue; it's the upward trend to show you are a good student. These SMPs really aren't for people with such high MCATs if they have a somewhat salvage GPA(and I would consider a 3.25/3.25 with your MCAT that). There is somewhat more leeway for a medicore GPA when you have a 37. A 3.3/31 probably won't work for MD and an SMP could be a good idea for them. A 3.3/37? That's often a different story. It's also easy to say you realize how risky these programs are but in your shoes my advice really would be do some DIY post-bacc work and then try out an app cycle. If you don't get in, THEN and only then think about an SMP.

However, if you are hell bent on an SMP. I have created some thoughts on them and the current state of SMPs below.





If you really want to get into an SMP you'll get into an SMP. Your stats are more than fine for one.

The bigger issue is you need to figure out the right SMP for you. Here is the thing with SMPs: times have changed alot. 5-10 years ago there were many programs with significant linkage to that schools own med school. Do well in a program like EVMS or Toledo back in say 2009, and you would get into the med school in all likelihood. Now days, times have changed. These programs are letting in alot more people and the result is that now only the very best of the best in a number of cases get into their med school. EVMS about 5 years ago accepted 20/23 of their SMP students into EVMS med school. Now days, that ratio is far far far lower. Toledo used to accept 80% of their SMP grads into an MD school. Even recently in the past few years that number has gone down dramatically to below 40-50%. This is part of why I hesitate to recommend SMPs, especially to people with 36+ MCATs; there alot of traps out there and alot of these programs are simply interested in your money and granting you a masters degree that is useless outside of getting into med school. They have no responsibility or bearing on getting you into a US MD school. You have to really be careful about which programs you look into and want to go to.

So having said that Boston U has a decent reputation but it is a 2 year program and the linkage to BU is weak and while they list where all their grads get into(and there are some really good schools on that list) they are still somewhat vague. There are better options IMO. Tufts has a solid reputation and there are people onthis site who definitely get in through it but I'd be rather wary of them being so tight lipped about how successful their grad are about getting into US MD schools. That's a red flag IMO. Loyola is a pretty solid program but to me I think there are probably better options for you.

In your shoes I don't think a 2 year SMP does anything for you. For many of these, there is research the second year like BU. But for you really there are two options a) apply the year you do the SMP b) wait till your done with the SMP then apply. I would honestly probably just stick with a one year program.

To me now days with so many SMP programs being watered down and just being cash-cows the ones I recommend the most would be a) Tulane's Anatomy Program b) Temple ACMS. Both of these have very very strong linkages; get into one of htese there's a 90+% chance you'll get into their MD school. For Temple, the caveat is Temple is very very competitive requiring a 3.4+ uGPA and Tulane requires you to have had a previous app cycle and a waitlist to even be eligible. Note this is one advantage to applying first with your stats to see if you can get lucky; get an MD WL and you suddenly become eligible for Tulane's program which is far better than these other SMPs not named Temple.


For many, these aren't realistic. In that case, IMO the two best SMPs I think out there, especially for someone in your shoes if you can't do those are:

a) Cincinnati: They've made the program harder now and really this is as rigorous a program as you'll find in the cpuntry. You need to beat the MS1 average at a very strong school with 3.75/34 median stats while doing 90+% of their workload. Very hard, but if you graduate(and I think 90+% do) you get a very clear cut answer as to how their grads place. Look at the link; at least 75% go on to US MD schools. The caveat here is you need to have solid stats to even get in; I think the average SMP student here had a 3.3-3.4/33-34. And many come from top schools. In other words, these are all really bright people. But you with your 37 MCAT seem like you could fit well in here. Also, a big advantage here is after the program you can establish Ohio residency which is a good state to be in and which will help with IS tuition which is very good there.

https://med.uc.edu/msinphysiology/alumni/meet-the-class-of-2014: This will show you all about their program and how their grads do. Transparency is a huge huge thing you need with SMPs; You gotta know what you are getting into and Cincy is great at doing just that.

b) Georgetown: This is argubably the biggest name of SMPs. It is a brutally difficult program; even getting a 3.5 is very very difficult. The thing is alot of their grads who are successful also didn't really need an SMP to get into med school so be wary of that. But 85% of their grads get into med school within 2 years of completing the program and most of these are to US MD schools. So I'd venture probably around 2/3 of their grads get into a US MD school within 2 years of doing the program. Good odds. There average stats are also pretty high; 3.3/31-32.

Note the big difference here is Cincinnati is a 30 person program. Georgetown is 150. You gotta figure out which one is better for you in that sense. Both these programs get a fair amount of their grads into US MD schools the same year of the program. My vote would be to Cincy, especially since you could establish Ohio residency after the program, but that's your call. Like I said, I think doing DIY post-bacc work(note more than 7 credits, think 15+) then applying to MD schools for a cycle before thinking about SMPs is the way I would go about this. But if you really want to do an SMP, I would focus less on your odds of getting into one and more on which programs are worthwhile and best for you.