Wayne state DMC VS Sinai Grace

[realruby2000]

What are the main differences between these two programs? they seem both strong to me and the fact that they're in detroit makes me think that they're really strong. besides what's on scutwork Can anyone offer any other info about these 2 programs ?

thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[edinOH]

I inteviewed at both and thought they were both good programs.

I'm not an expert by any means on the Detroit programs but I think DMC (Detroit Receiving) might have a slight edge based on name recognition at least.

Perhaps someone else can give you a more meaningful answer.

 

[philomena]

Both programs are associated with the DMC and Wayne State University, so in a way are sort of sister programs. At both programs you will do rotations at Children's Hospital of Michigan and Hutzel Women's hospital. In the last few years they have begun a "resident sharing" program so that each program's residents spend 1 0r 2 months at the other hospital. But I don't know if that is still going on. They are both strong programs where you will see a lot of pathology but they are definitely separate AND DIFFERENT programs (just ask the residents).

Receiving has a stronger academic history, a brand new ED, shares trauma with a strong surgery dept..

Grace has more trauma, a WEALTH of procedural experience, less reliance/co-leadership with surgery, ...and more trauma.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Wondering if someone can give a quick blurb on the Detroit area programs? I am getting interviews at most if not all of them but I dont want to interview with 6 places. Anyone with thoughts?

 

[castaway]

Same here. Don't know much about Saginaw, Kalamazoo, St John and Sinai-Grace. A blurb would definitely be appreciated.

 

[JeepERdoc]

I guess I could offer a little bit of insight into the Detroit area programs, as I am a local Wayne State medical student pursuing EM.

Detroit Receiving: New ED. Rest of hospital a dump physically. Excellent faculty--some of the coolest people I have ever come across as far as personality, approachability, etc... Wicked cool trauma bay with three spots and overhead computerized XRay. Oftentimes trauma bay is full, blood is pouring, and procedures are underway. PLENTY of trauma. Codes are run by surgery and EM on ALTERNATE days. Trauma procedures are run by whoever is NOT running the code that day. Grads here are trauma and procedure PRO's. Legendary surgeons--makes for great off-service rotations. Nursing staff leaves something to be desired.

Sinai Grace: Never rotated, though alot of my classmates have. The most trauma in Detroit. West side Detroit in SHADY neighborhood, yet drivable and very nice living within 15 min drive. PD and assist PD are damn cool people. You probably cant get better trauma experience than this, and YOU are the people running the codes. Less academic than DRH, though you are very valuable on off-service rotations. Great drop-off crazy stuff. If you dig chaos with trauma, naked crack ****** running thru the ED, and plenty of good indigent pathology, this is a place to check out.

Henry Ford: Never rotated. STRONG reputation. Manny Rivers and his shock research is cutting edge stuff. Great off-service stuff. Good name recognition outside of Detroit. EM runs trauma codes...residents reported as almost "cowboy-like" with so much autonomy. Downtown Detroit. Nice facilities. One of my favorites in Deeetroit.

St. John: This place probably truly does get the best of both worlds in EM. Trauma with good procedures and bread and butter EM. Sits on the border of Detroit and Grosse Pointes ( a very wealthy neighborhood of Metro Detroit.) You can buy smaller homes in this neighborhood (or a section of it) for 160-200K and up. Very nice community. Residents here are treated well. FREE food for residents. Good Pay. Nice ED. Off-service stuff not as strong as above at least as far as reputation is concerned. Solid program. Name recognition might suffer, but I would seek treatment from any one of these grads.

Beaumont: Did not apply. Dont know much about it. Known downtown as Club Beau. A little more bread and butter stuff in a nice suburb of Detroit. Kinda "Cushy". One of my friends rotated and didnt care for it. Wont say any more cuz I dont know much about it.

Saginaw: Heard it is a small program, Good administration, know nothing else.

Detroit in general: Not as bad as everyone says it is...at least not in places that you would live. Contrary to what you might think, there are plenty of very nice suburbs within a 20 min drive that are affordable. Residents at all of the programs above are happy.

Why then, if all these places seem so great, am I leaving? One GOOD reason, my WIFE. She is looking for a bit more of a fancy-schmancy city. I actually like it here but am looking for some new scenery. If you are concerned that maybe you arent in the top tier of applicants but doesnt want to sacrifice great training, you need to at least check these programs out. Even if you are top tier competitive and want experience in the ED that they couldnt dream up for tv, check these places out. They are all comparable in training so if you cant visit all of em, use the above info and other resources to check out at least a few.

 

[castaway]

Hey, thanks for the info. Helpful.

 

[realruby2000]

great post

 

[EctopicFetus]

how about UMIchigan?

 

[JeepERdoc]

I dont have any first hand experience with UM. However, the name UM can't hurt any. It is a four year program, which is one of the reasons I did not apply. I worked with attendings who are graduates of that program and they said it was tough goin, but a good education. They dont see nearly the trauma that we see in Detroit, but they get some funky stuff flown in. As I understand it though, these patients have usually been stabilized prior to transport, thus are shipped to the floors once in the ED. When I applied to EM, I left UM off my list because the guys downtown make fun of the "cushiness" of that program. Not in the sense that they dont work hard, or get pimped hard, just that it is academic EM. To ME, it is a little elitist. (Wayne students tend to say that in general, though). You cant go WRONG with this program, just that it's style may or may not fit what you are looking for. Definately worth checking out. Plus, Ann Arbor is WORLDS apart from Detroit in terms of living conditions, cool downtown, safety, college scene...rated among the best cities in the US to live...the price you pay for that (literally) is high property values. (Though still affordable enough to live in.

Please keep in mind that these are my personal opinions based on feedback, attitudes that float in the wind around here. Not based on any clinical experience. I am sure there are some UM residents ready to tear me a new one for what has been said. My bet is that it is a solid program academically, and if you are considering it, check it out.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Much appreciation. Of course I know these are your opinions.. Thanks a ton..

 

[dlung]

I'll say some blurbs about the non-Detroit programs.

But first, I interviewed at Sinai-Grace, Receiving, St. John's, and Henry Ford. Ranked Henry Ford above the rest because I was aiming at an academic track and my personality fit in with those guys the best (plus have a friend there and had met a number of grads of the program). However, for academics, the lesser known programs could boast of some really excellent fellowship placements (eg Sinai-Grace recently put some at Denver Tox and St. John's put someone at Ohio State Peds EM). I would have been very happy at any of those programs. I think one of the most interesting things about these programs is that each has a pretty distinct personality type and that ended up being one of the main ways I sorted through them.

Saginaw--did not interview, but know some of the faculty are very cool. seemed like you'd be taken care of well.

Kalamazoo--rural program with large catchment area in SW Michigan. very chill. happy residents. lots of flight time. you work out of two hospitals in kalamazoo. arguably the strongest training program at those hospitals. they advertise a 'best of' community and academic environment mix. faculty are very good and supportive. the program itself has a lot of nice perks like a local home loan/financing assistance thingy.

 

[Dr.Evil1]

I am an intern at Detroit Receiving Hospital (DRH) in EM. I am a former Wayne State student and interviewed at all the programs in the Detroit area besides U of M. I obviously am biased towards DRH as it was my first Detroit choice but have friends at many of the other area hospitals.

As far as the original question regarding the two WSU programs: The two programs are completely separate with separate program directors and separate recruiting. The two programs share affiliation with WSU and a few clinical faculty split time between the places. At the beginning of the year we have a combined retreat with the 1st and 3rd years of both programs too. We do both rotate at Children's and Hutzel hospitals. There used to be a crossover month during your third year but that stopped because resident's from both places hated it.

As far as Detroit area programs are concerned I agree with much of what JeepERdoc has said. To that post I will add the following:

Detroit Receiving Hospital: I decided on DRH based upon the faculty and more academic feel of the program. I think that there is a little better national name recognition to this program, aprox equal to that of Ford. One thing that I think is misleading is that we share trauma with surgery. EM leads the trauma resuscitation 90% of the time, we control airway nearly 100% of the time. The true alternation comes down to procedures, which ends up being 50/50 for all the trauma procedures. There are abundant procedures so this doesn't cause any problems…there are many times when the three bays are all full of trauma cases. My favorite thing, though, are the other residents that are in the program. We have 3 years of extremely energetic, smart and diverse people.

Sinai Grace: Like the previous poster mentioned this place is in the middle of a more residential area of Detroit. There is LOTS of trauma, probably the most of all the hospitals in Detroit. The EM residents are boss of their ER and no one takes any control away from them. The EM residents are the top residents in the hospital, which gives them a lot of power. Graduates of this program will have seen EVERYTHING, possibly twice. Are traditionally friendly to FMGs.

Ford: Ford's strength lies in it's critical care in the ER training. Manny Rivers has brought national attention to this program with his early intervention in sepsis work. We just got a grad of their program as new faculty at DRH and he is very into critical care. They also have the EM/IM and EM/IM/Critical care tracks. Their ER is set up with a great area to take care of the very sick individuals (Cat 1) and then a crappy area for everyone else (Cat 2 and 3). They put on a good presentation on interview day. Dig deep and get your questions answered. Last year many of my friends matched here and I haven't heard any complaints.

St. John: You can't talk about St. John without mentioning Don Benson. He is the program director and probably one of the most interesting people in EM in Detroit. He was an old military medic guy and is a bit nuts. This will not be a "normal" interview for you. In my interview we basically talked about hockey for 45 min. Agree with previous post. Traditionally friendly to FMGs.

Beaumont: Very busy ER. Definitely has a more suburban feel with much less penetrating trauma. One thing not mentioned is that the program really seems to be interested in the political aspects of EM. Had a good dinner last year. I wouldn't call it "Kushy" it's just that the ED isn't filled with coke addicts and homeless alcoholics.

U of M: All I had to hear about the program is that it was 4 years and I was out. I love Ann Arbor though and think that it is a GREAT place to live based on lifestyle. Can't really say more since I didn't interview there.

Hope it helps. If you have any other questions please PM me. I will be open and honest about all aspects of my program and can probably give you a little bit of insight into the strengths and weaknesses of the other programs. If you are interviewing and want some suggestions on where to stay or eat then just let me know.