What are my chances of being accepted into an MdPhD program

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Casey Par

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Hi, I apologize for asking this since I know this question has been asked several times on this forum but I really like the advice I have obtained on these forums since I discovered it recently. I am a senior undergraduate. I Originally wanted to attend strictly medical school, however due to lack of proper guidance (mostly due to my own doing) I realized rather late into my undergraduate studies that I was very interested in pursuing a career in biomedical research. I am mostly interested in doing an MdPhD double degree however I am quite concerned that I am not competitive enough to be accepted into any programs. My stats are:

-cGPA: 3.63
-sGPA: not completely sure but around the same range (3.6ish)
-I have 2 years of research experience at my home institution and I will be attending the UPenn SUIP summer research program this year.
-I don't really have any clinical experience whatsoever but I was planning on doing approximately ~200 hours this summer by shadowing doctors on the weekends.
- I am a member of the MARC Research program at my home institution
- I attended but did not present at the ABRCMS conference
- I have presented at two conferences (not national or very well known)
- I have 2, maybe 3 excellent LOR
- I am a URM (not sure if this helps or not since I've read several different opinions)

The other problem I have is that I haven't taken the MCAT yet and was considering taking it in July or August, this concerns me because I have read that it is not wise to submit the AMCAS application this late, however, I was planning on submitting the primaries earlier and updating my application once I obtain my results. I am aiming towards 514-518 but I am afraid that if I score lower than this and submit my results anyway I wont receive any acceptances this cycle and may hurt my chances in the future by being a reapplicant. My other option was to apply to several PREP post bac programs in order to obtain more research experience and possibly publication.

Do you guys think I have any chance being accepted into an MdPhD program this cycle or would I have a better chance applying to PhD only? I am quite certain that I want a research oriented career and I am not sure if I can obtain this as an MD only

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You need to step back and evaluate your career choices:

- Do you want to be a clinician or a scientist (MD or PhD)? Do you need both degrees to achieve your career goals? Cuz it sounds like you haven't made up your mind concerning that issue
- If you want to be a physician or physician scientist, you will need to plan accordingly. First thing being that you get a solid MCAT score (very strong in the MD/PhD case)
- You need to get some clinical volunteering experience as well as shadowing.
- Your GPA is fine for MD, a bit low for MD/PhD (not impossible but understand you'll be fighting a bit of an uphill battle)
- You do understand that you're going to have at least 1 gap yr (since you're already a senior)? Because there's no need to cram all your shadowing into one summer.
- With your profile, I would at least wait until you have your MCAT score before applying. Taking 2 gap yrs won't kill you and it'd be better than being a re-applicant.
- The PhD only application cycle really won't open until around October FYI
- If you want to go into academic medicine, it is very possible to do so w/ an MD-only (though you will need protected research time in your residency and/or fellowship)
 
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You need to step back and evaluate your career choices:

- Do you want to be a clinician or a scientist (MD or PhD)? Do you need both degrees to achieve your career goals? Cuz it sounds like you haven't made up your mind concerning that issue
- If you want to be a physician or physician scientist, you will need to plan accordingly. First thing being that you get a solid MCAT score (very strong in the MD/PhD case)
- You need to get some clinical volunteering experience as well as shadowing.
- Your GPA is fine for MD, a bit low for MD/PhD (not impossible but understand you'll be fighting a bit of an uphill battle)
- You do understand that you're going to have at least 1 gap yr (since you're already a senior)? Because there's no need to cram all your shadowing into one summer.
- With your profile, I would at least wait until you have your MCAT score before applying. Taking 2 gap yrs won't kill you and it'd be better than being a re-applicant.
- The PhD only application cycle really won't open until around October FYI
- If you want to go into academic medicine, it is very possible to do so w/ an MD-only (though you will need protected research time in your residency and/or fellowship)

Thanks for the advice! Honestly you are right, I am pretty sure I want to be a scientist however I am unsure if I really need to get both degrees. Part of me thinks that the reason I want to do an MdPhD is because of the job security compared to PhD. I have heard scary things about how difficult it can be for PhD's to find a decent paying job, but I don't know if I am making a mistake since I am very interested in research, however I do not know if I will particularly like going to medical school as well
 
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Thanks for the advice! Honestly you are right, I am pretty sure I want to be a scientist however I am unsure if I really need to get both degrees. Part of me thinks that the reason I want to do an MdPhD is because of the job security compared to PhD. I have heard scary things about how difficult it can be for PhD's to find a decent paying job, but I don't know if I am making a mistake since I am very interested in research, however I do not know if I will particularly like going to medical school as well

Academic (particularly tenure track positions at R01 institutes) job security is what's really shaky for PhD-only. However, there are tons of other opportunities if one is willing to work hard and not limit their choices (industry, government, private research institutes, national labs, etc). Also if you're willing to go to a smaller institution that isn't as focused on publication volume, you may find jobs in there. Just thought I'd at least say that. Now as far as being in academia doing biomedical science research, the MD/PhD is probably the most secure way to get to that path (not a guarantee but you get what I'm saying).

Not being sure is a part of life (hell I wasn't sure I wanted to do this until ~4 yrs after UG) - but you do need to really evaluate your career goals and options. If you're at a school w/ a med school, it may be worth it to set up a meeting with a PhD-only and MD/PhD faculty member doing research you find interesting and ask them about their training experience. While many PIs are very busy, you can never underestimate the enjoyment that they get from talking about themselves.

Med school, unfortunately, is not something that you want to lightly commit to due to the sheer rigor of the path. Take the time and shadow plenty of doctors so you know if the path is worth committing to.
 
Academic (particularly tenure track positions at R01 institutes) job security is what's really shaky for PhD-only. However, there are tons of other opportunities if one is willing to work hard and not limit their choices (industry, government, private research institutes, national labs, etc). Also if you're willing to go to a smaller institution that isn't as focused on publication volume, you may find jobs in there. Just thought I'd at least say that. Now as far as being in academia doing biomedical science research, the MD/PhD is probably the most secure way to get to that path (not a guarantee but you get what I'm saying).

Not being sure is a part of life (hell I wasn't sure I wanted to do this until ~4 yrs after UG) - but you do need to really evaluate your career goals and options. If you're at a school w/ a med school, it may be worth it to set up a meeting with a PhD-only and MD/PhD faculty member doing research you find interesting and ask them about their training experience. While many PIs are very busy, you can never underestimate the enjoyment that they get from talking about themselves.

Med school, unfortunately, is not something that you want to lightly commit to due to the sheer rigor of the path. Take the time and shadow plenty of doctors so you know if the path is worth committing to.

Thanks! I think the best to would right now would be to take a gap year to strengthen my application, I will also get a chance to maybe boost my gpa to a 3.7 since I was planning on retaking a course where I got a C, not a science class but still. Do you think a post bacc would be advisable in this extra year in order to get more experience? The other option I was considering was to do a PhD first and afterwards get an MD degree since I think I might have a better chance at being accepted into a PhD program in a higher ranked school than getting accepted in an MSTP program in the same school, however, according to Q of Quimica this path isint very advisable if I have any chance of being accepted in an MdPhd program
 
IMO I don't think a postbacc would do you much good since your GPA is right on the lower side of acceptable. Q of Quimica (and a few of the other PhD-to-MDs) are absolutely correct in saying that that path is the least efficient way. However, it's not impossible to do (I have a couple classmates who did it) as long as you are careful in picking your thesis project's scope and having a reasonable PI.

When I was applying I wasn't sure if I'd get into the combined program so I concurrently applied to PhD programs as well (prepping for both sucked lol). Fortunately it worked out in the end. The best you can do is delay taking the MCAT until you can crush it (think 516+) and getting some comprehensive research experience. I'm not sure what your interests are but programs like the NIH IRTA, research tech positions, etc tend to be pretty useful. This most likely means a 2 yr gap but it might be worth it if you can get a strong MCAT (~95th percentile+), more research experience, bolster your clinical exposure, and being a URM should help you get into a good amount of programs the first time.
 
IMO I don't think a postbacc would do you much good since your GPA is right on the lower side of acceptable. Q of Quimica (and a few of the other PhD-to-MDs) are absolutely correct in saying that that path is the least efficient way. However, it's not impossible to do (I have a couple classmates who did it) as long as you are careful in picking your thesis project's scope and having a reasonable PI.

When I was applying I wasn't sure if I'd get into the combined program so I concurrently applied to PhD programs as well (prepping for both sucked lol). Fortunately it worked out in the end. The best you can do is delay taking the MCAT until you can crush it (think 516+) and getting some comprehensive research experience. I'm not sure what your interests are but programs like the NIH IRTA, research tech positions, etc tend to be pretty useful. This most likely means a 2 yr gap but it might be worth it if you can get a strong MCAT (~95th percentile+), more research experience, bolster your clinical exposure, and being a URM should help you get into a good amount of programs the first time.
Thanks for the advice! However I have one question. How bad would it be if I were to apply this cycle? Obviously my application is lacking in several aspects but how bad would being rejected this cycle affect my chances of being accepted in the future? In other words, what is the major disadvantage of being a reapplicant?
 
Thanks for the advice! However I have one question. How bad would it be if I were to apply this cycle? Obviously my application is lacking in several aspects but how bad would being rejected this cycle affect my chances of being accepted in the future? In other words, what is the major disadvantage of being a reapplicant?

Unfortunately there does tend to be a disadvantage being a reapplicant (barring some special cases). From the info you've given, it would be difficult for you to convince a MD/PhD adcomm to give you a chance. Your GPA is on the low side (though that can be countered w/ more research experience) and you'd need a pretty insane MCAT score to convince them applying late in the cycle (~520+). Now you'd mentioned submitting primaries early and updating once you get your results. I'm usually not a fan of this option since it's better to know your MCAT (arguably one of the most major components of your application) before burning time, money and effort applying. Don't go into an application cycle w/ the plan to reapply.

Can it be done - yes, but you'd be gambling on quite a few variables. Also more than anything, you really have to be sure (like at least 80%+) whether you want to commit to this path - it's hard to know when you're still fresh off of college. That's why I tend to be an advocate for a small gap period (in most cases).
 
Being a re-applicants does not necessarily is a disadvantage. In my program, we accepted 2 re-applicants who had rejected the prior year. The key was to address some issues, and both did that. They were seen more mature by the admissions committee.
 
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Ok, I definitely agree that it would be a good idea to take 1 or 2 gap years in order to decide if this is really what I want since I found out kind of late as an undergrad. Regarding clinical experience, I am planning on doing shadowing this summer but I'm afraid this won't be enough, do you recommend doing volunteer work as well or is this not as important for Md/PhD programs? Thanks for all the advice guys!
 
Ok, I definitely agree that it would be a good idea to take 1 or 2 gap years in order to decide if this is really what I want since I found out kind of late as an undergrad. Regarding clinical experience, I am planning on doing shadowing this summer but I'm afraid this won't be enough, do you recommend doing volunteer work as well or is this not as important for Md/PhD programs? Thanks for all the advice guys!

From the programs I applied to, MD/PhD applicants are still held to the same standards as MD-only applicants (in terms of ECs needed). Therefore, you will need to volunteer in a clinical setting as well as shadow (active + passive clinical exposure) - though you probably won't need an insane amount. The formula that I used was as follows:

- shadowing: 3-6 specialties for 5-15 hrs each. I think I ended up having 80-100 hrs total
- clinical volunteering: this can include hospitals, hospice, nursing homes, etc. I volunteered at the medical center and nursing home near my UG for like 5-10 hrs/month (on avg.) for ~1.5 yrs and ended up with around 150-200 hrs.

Remember the goal of these programs is to produce physician scientists. Good luck!
 
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