What are my chances?

[that redhead]

Hey everyone!

This thread is exactly what I have been looking for and I have almost read the entire thing! I really could use some help on determining what moves to make on my current situation. I am a graduating senior from Georgia and am going to receive my BS in biology over the summer (there are a few courses that I need to complete). I am at a crucial point where I need to make an educated decision. Here is the line up from my undergraduate experience:

Academics
cGPA: 2.75
sGPA: >2.70 (ouch)
L45 GPA: 3.38
-Full year of research that will be published (animal protein research)

GRE
VR: 146
QR: 155
Writing: 3.5

Related Experience
-330 hrs LA
-55 hrs SA
-1500 to 2000 hrs volunteering at a horse rescue
-Cared for small animals since youth (pet owner)
-Founder and President for 2 yrs of the Equestrian Club at my current college

Unrelated Experience and Achievements
- Eagle Scout of the BSA (involved 18 yrs)
- Active member in community
- Volunteer hours in nursing homes and soup kitchens (over 400 hrs)

What I know:
I understand that the GPA and the GRE are my really weak points and am eager to improve on them. The GRE is the factor that can be improved in the near future. As for the GPA please see below. Additionally, my SA experience must increase prior to applying to veterinarian school.

The plan so far (rough outline):
From what I have been reading it would seem that the prime option as of now is to apply to a graduate school in a biomedical field which contains loads of research. My end goal is to enter University of Tennessee College of Veterinarian Medicine. Of course, I am willing to enter into any veterinarian school.

What I don't know:
There are a few things that need some clarification in my plan.
-Is the best move at this moment to apply to masters programs?
-Are any fields viewed as better then others because of relevance?
-Should I apply to programs in schools that have vet programs as well (I heard a rumor that chances are increased if I do)?
-Is it more beneficial to take a year off to obtain better LA/SA experience and focus on GRE scores than entering into a masters program to raise my GPA?
-Does UT focus on the L45 or the overall GPA (I will be emailing them)?
-Is there anything that I can do which will make me stand out among other applicants besides GPA and GRE?
-Should I focus on other schools, including those overseas, such as SGU and Ross?

I know that this is a lot to ask but I really want to become a vet. This has been my dream and I am not going to give up unless I am completely out of options. There are several factors that explain my low GPA and I was able to overcome them towards my Junior and Senor years. I am pumped to do whatever I need to improve my chances and enter into vet school. Thank you for looking over this and please let me know if I missed anything.

The thing about a Masters is that it isn't at all a guaranteed ticket to vet school, which I think is a common misconception. Since you have a research background, though, it makes more sense to pursue a Masters especially if you have an actual career interest in research; if not, I think it would be less helpful. You'll have to look at how the GPA from a Masters will figure into your GPA calculations - it differs across schools so I'd contact the ones you plan to apply to. I imagine a science-based degree would be looked at more favorably than something like pottery or history. The benefits of applying to a school with a vet school would be that you could do some networking there and maybe pick up experience in their teaching hospital to boost your hours. Whether or not that will actually increase your chances I don't know for sure but it certainly can't hurt (provided you make a favorable impression).

That all being said, I'm not sure what your pre-req grades are. I would consider retaking those with a C or lower and sprinkling in some higher level science courses to prove that you've got what it takes to succeed in those rigorous science-based courses. Find a professor that you can connect with and consider for a letter of rec. Using your spare time to restudy for the GRE and build your veterinary experience (with an accompanying awesome letter of rec) would be (in my opinion) more beneficial to your application than just a Master's degree.

I think to make yourself stand out you've got to create a story for yourself. Be ready to address the poor grades and show the admissions committees that you're tough and determined. Make the other parts of your application stellar - more experience, yes, but you've got a lot of potential to tie in a comunity service angle in your PS. You can also find people who will stand up for you in the form of letters and bring the whole package together.

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[futurehealervet]

Hi,
I've actually posted on this thread recently but had a question about experience specifically. So far:
vet:
800 SA
72 LA
500 research

animal:
100 LA
100 wildlife
100 zoo

Im applying this coming cycle. I plan to have around 200 LA hours (veterinary) by the end of the summer. I don't know if I need more breadth though in terms of veterinary experience. I've noticed that many people go to far more places and immerse themselves in more areas than I have. I just want to know, since research is no longer considered vet experience, if just having worked in two areas of vet med is competitive enough. Thanks

 

[Zoocetera]

Hi..
I'm new to the forums. I came here from reddit.
I'm 28. I've previously done a diploma in Veterinary Technician, and am currently a Registered Veterinary Technician. I work mostly in small animal and exotic animal hospitals because I've mainly lived in the city. I went back to university to get my undergrad in honors biology to hopefully get into vet school.I've been working in the veterinary field (clinics/hospitals/rescues) for 4 years this June.

I am in Ontario, Canada. I have to take the MCAT. I however, did not take physics or Organic Chem because they are my weakest topics and wanted to keep my GPA high. I am taking a prep course after this semester for the MCAT and found free online courses through MIT for Physics and Organic Chem. University of Guelph's veterinary program doesn't require organic chem or physics for their prerequisites.

So far, the average for my prerequisite courses is 84% The average for my last two semester so far is 87%. Guelph looks at your last two semesters, the average of your prerequisites and your MCAT scores in a 40:40:20 ratio. And require references from veterinarians, which I already have 4 glowing recommendations from.

I have been so terrified of this up coming year, taking the MCAT over the summer and I'm really hoping I get in on the first try.

Can anyone from Ontario or who got into University of Guelph give me a little perspective on what their marks were when they got in? What your MCAT scores were like?

 

[Equestvet]

The thing about a Masters is that it isn't at all a guaranteed ticket to vet school, which I think is a common misconception. Since you have a research background, though, it makes more sense to pursue a Masters especially if you have an actual career interest in research; if not, I think it would be less helpful. You'll have to look at how the GPA from a Masters will figure into your GPA calculations - it differs across schools so I'd contact the ones you plan to apply to. I imagine a science-based degree would be looked at more favorably than something like pottery or history. The benefits of applying to a school with a vet school would be that you could do some networking there and maybe pick up experience in their teaching hospital to boost your hours. Whether or not that will actually increase your chances I don't know for sure but it certainly can't hurt (provided you make a favorable impression).

That all being said, I'm not sure what your pre-req grades are. I would consider retaking those with a C or lower and sprinkling in some higher level science courses to prove that you've got what it takes to succeed in those rigorous science-based courses. Find a professor that you can connect with and consider for a letter of rec. Using your spare time to restudy for the GRE and build your veterinary experience (with an accompanying awesome letter of rec) would be (in my opinion) more beneficial to your application than just a Master's degree.

I think to make yourself stand out you've got to create a story for yourself. Be ready to address the poor grades and show the admissions committees that you're tough and determined. Make the other parts of your application stellar - more experience, yes, but you've got a lot of potential to tie in a comunity service angle in your PS. You can also find people who will stand up for you in the form of letters and bring the whole package together.

I understand that applying and obtaining a masters degree is not a guarantee for entrance into vet school but I was wondering if that would be better than retaking some of the pre-reqs. Currently, most of the pre-reqs that I completed are Cs but are also in 200 or lower level classes. Because it is costly to retake the classes at my undergraduate school, is it possible to take undergraduate pre-reqs at another university and have them replace the ones I currently have?

Also, I have two letters of rec from professors and one from my LA vet. Finally, what does it mean to have people stand up for me in the forms of letters?

Thank you!

 

[that redhead]

I understand that applying and obtaining a masters degree is not a guarantee for entrance into vet school but I was wondering if that would be better than retaking some of the pre-reqs. Currently, most of the pre-reqs that I completed are Cs but are also in 200 or lower level classes. Because it is costly to retake the classes at my undergraduate school, is it possible to take undergraduate pre-reqs at another university and have them replace the ones I currently have?

Also, I have two letters of rec from professors and one from my LA vet. Finally, what does it mean to have people stand up for me in the forms of letters?

Thank you!

I think it would be completely reasonable to re-take the pre-reqs at another, less expensive institution In my opinion, that approach would be better for you overall than doing a Masters because it will bring up your science, pre-req and last 45 GPA which are all good things to show the adcoms that you've got a good grasp on things academically. Some schools will replace the grade outright while others may average the grades but if you do well, it's a positive for your application no matter what way they calculate it. Since they're all 200 levels, you might consider adding in some upper levels once you're back on track academically.

When I said "standing up for you in letters" I meant that your letters should be strongly in your favor; you want people writing for you that attest to how awesome of a candidate you are even if your numbers aren't as strong as other applicants. If you think a writer is just going to say, "Yeah, I had them in my class, they were fine" then I'd suggest you look elsewhere or improve upon your relationship with that writer - going to office hours or making an effort to really connect while shadowing (lots of questions, stuff like that). A lower GPA won't sink your application, but the other parts all have to be awesome

 

[that redhead]

Hi,
I've actually posted on this thread recently but had a question about experience specifically. So far:
vet:
800 SA
72 LA
500 research

animal:
100 LA
100 wildlife
100 zoo

Im applying this coming cycle. I plan to have around 200 LA hours (veterinary) by the end of the summer. I don't know if I need more breadth though in terms of veterinary experience. I've noticed that many people go to far more places and immerse themselves in more areas than I have. I just want to know, since research is no longer considered vet experience, if just having worked in two areas of vet med is competitive enough. Thanks

Can't remember your other stats, but I think 200 LA and 800 SA is pretty good. The research will add diversity even if it isn't considered veterinary experience and your animal experience is variety. The more hours the better, obviously, but I think you should be fine

 

[snapper17]

I have applied in the past and was wondering a little about where others think I stand.
School:
Undergrad GPA: 3.02 overall
Masters GPA: 3.53
-science GPA:3.1
-physics/organic: 3.3
-last 60 hours: 3.2
GRE: 154(V) and 156(Q) and 4.5 (W)

Experience:
Founded our university's pre-vet club and was president for 2 years
Founded our paintball club president 3 years
Spent 3 weeks working with African wildlife in South Africa
Worked 200+hours at a racetrack
have worked last 2 years at small animal hospital
some class time with cattle, pigs, etc.
countless hours working with my own animals

I was accepted into both of the Caribbean schools but not sure those the right choice for me. Any help would be great!! Thanks again

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Hey all, I'm expecting to be rejected (I know, Ms. Negative has entered the building) from the last two schools I haven't heard from yet. So I figured I'd post here to get some solid suggestions on what I could do to improve. I am using the OP's format...so if any more info is needed just ask! Also, please tag me in any replies so I don't miss them! Thank you!

21, female, Michigan resident

Degrees:
B.S. in Zoology this May, Michigan State University
-concentration in Zoo and Aquarium Science

Cum GPA: 3.61
Science GPA: 3.49 overall, 2.91 at Iowa
(This calculations do not include this past fall, in which I performed poorly...)

Veterinary Experience:
- about 700 hours experience SA, both receptionist and vet assistant
-about 110 hours at a wildlife rehab facility

Animal Experience:
- about 40 hours showing horses and dairy (novice level)
-230 hours at the Detroit Zoo caring for the amphibian collection (put on explanation statement since it was for school credit)
-about 30 hours raising broiler chickens from chicks. Fully designed their diet using a computer program as well. (put on explanation statement since it was for school credit)

Research:
-about 60+ hours designing and completing a research project for a class (put on explanation statement since it was for school credit)
-about 300+ hours assisting in animal welfare research for the Detroit Zoo (put on explanation statement since it was for school credit)

Employment:
-Full time child care for two summers
-Student supervisor at a campus dining hall (3 years)

Letters of Recommendation
-MSU Professor/adviser
-Wildlife rehab vet
-SA vet I currently work for
-Chief vet at zoo
-Asst. manager at dining hall

GRE:
158 verbal; 154 quant.

My concerns:
-I think it's pretty obvious I'm the average applicant. Maybe even a little less so. Any ideas on how to stand out?
-I wrote about my father coming down with some serious illnesses throughout my college career in my explanation statement. I regret this and feel like I sounded like I was making excuses for not having a good GPA. Is this something I should leave out in my next cycle? It truly did have an affect on my performance though.
-I am definitely lacking in the experience portion. Any tips of getting a LA vet to actually respond to calls/emails?
-I stopped going to the wildlife rehab facility because I truly did not like it. Should I go back anyways just to get hours?
-I am stuck on whether or not I should retake pre-reqs or try to get a master's. I have no idea on the application process for a master's either...I'd like to go into Animal Nutrition for that degree.

I am applying this year to: Michigan State, UF, Illinois, Ohio, and Iowa. Rejected so far at the last three listed. (I made it through the academic round at Illinois).

So just to follow up on my own post:

I did get rejected from all 5 schools. My file review at UF directed me to get LA and research experience and letters from vets who have known me longer. And to tell them not to specify any school names in their letters...because only 1/5 of my schools is Michigan State She also told me she thinks I really undersold myself, specifically my leadership positions and various awards, even though I listed everything on my VMCAS...? But, most importantly, my grades are right in line/slightly above the averages for UF.
Ohio basically told me I needed LA and sliiiiiight GPA boost. I was 1.5 points short of moving to the second round of their application process.

I think, in order to get letters from vets I have known for a year or more (this is what UF looks for), I'll have to take a gap year between cycles. I still have 3 other file reviews to go, so hopefully they all suggest the same fixes!

 

[that redhead]

I have applied in the past and was wondering a little about where others think I stand.
School:
Undergrad GPA: 3.02 overall
Masters GPA: 3.53
-science GPA:3.1
-physics/organic: 3.3
-last 60 hours: 3.2
GRE: 154(V) and 156(Q) and 4.5 (W)

Experience:
Founded our university's pre-vet club and was president for 2 years
Founded our paintball club president 3 years
Spent 3 weeks working with African wildlife in South Africa
Worked 200+hours at a racetrack
have worked last 2 years at small animal hospital
some class time with cattle, pigs, etc.
countless hours working with my own animals

I was accepted into both of the Caribbean schools but not sure those the right choice for me. Any help would be great!! Thanks again

If you want to apply State-side, I think you've got some work ahead of you. For your grades, all could be higher. What are you last 45 (not last 60) credit hours GPA? What about your pre-req GPA (not just physics and o-chem but general chemistry, biology, etc)? Without knowing these things it's hard to point you in the right direction. To be frank, many people who did a Masters end up with 4.0 or very close to it. Additionally, not all schools will count those courses in the GPA or as the last 45 GPA. Depending on your pre-req grades, it may be worth retaking some courses that you got a C in to boost those grades and/or take some higher level science courses to prove your ability in the tough sciences.

What are your veterinary versus "just animal" hours? My impression from what you provided is that your experience hours need a boost, especially paired with a weaker GPA. I'd take a year off between cycles if your heart is set on going to the US to bulk up your application.

Overall, my advice would be to take your acceptance to either Ross or SGU - both are good schools and applications are only getting more competitive. You won't have to put in the time, money and effort to bring your application up to some of the more stringent requirements of many US schools.

 

[Escalla]

@that redhead you're such a nice person for frequenting this thread so often. Just thought it was worth recognizing.

 

[that redhead]

@that redhead you're such a nice person for frequenting this thread so often. Just thought it was worth recognizing.

Aw, thank you

 

[snapper17]

Thanks for the information.
My veterinary experience is well over 2000 hours at my current small animal practice. I understand my gpa is low but has done nothing but increase in the last year. I have had nothing below a 3.4 in my last 45 hours. I am currently doing my masters in one year and will be finished this May so have been taking about 13-15 hours a semester of just masters classes. Right now my plan is to retake organic 2 to raise that grade since it was a C. I also wanted to retake 2-3 other classes in the fall to remove those Cs and replace them hopefully with an A. I do want to go somewhere in the US, don't see being able to pay off St. George or Ross in the next 20-25 years and the fact of never being able to come home and see family isn't appealing to me with older grandparents not in the best of health.

If you want to apply State-side, I think you've got some work ahead of you. For your grades, all could be higher. What are you last 45 (not last 60) credit hours GPA? What about your pre-req GPA (not just physics and o-chem but general chemistry, biology, etc)? Without knowing these things it's hard to point you in the right direction. To be frank, many people who did a Masters end up with 4.0 or very close to it. Additionally, not all schools will count those courses in the GPA or as the last 45 GPA. Depending on your pre-req grades, it may be worth retaking some courses that you got a C in to boost those grades and/or take some higher level science courses to prove your ability in the tough sciences.

What are your veterinary versus "just animal" hours? My impression from what you provided is that your experience hours need a boost, especially paired with a weaker GPA. I'd take a year off between cycles if your heart is set on going to the US to bulk up your application.

Overall, my advice would be to take your acceptance to either Ross or SGU - both are good schools and applications are only getting more competitive. You won't have to put in the time, money and effort to bring your application up to some of the more stringent requirements of many US schools.

 

[TheComfyCat]

Thanks for the information.
My veterinary experience is well over 2000 hours at my current small animal practice. I understand my gpa is low but has done nothing but increase in the last year. I have had nothing below a 3.4 in my last 45 hours. I am currently doing my masters in one year and will be finished this May so have been taking about 13-15 hours a semester of just masters classes. Right now my plan is to retake organic 2 to raise that grade since it was a C. I also wanted to retake 2-3 other classes in the fall to remove those Cs and replace them hopefully with an A. I do want to go somewhere in the US, don't see being able to pay off St. George or Ross in the next 20-25 years and the fact of never being able to come home and see family isn't appealing to me with older grandparents not in the best of health.

Did you get file reviews from the schools where you were rejected? That could help you figure out exactly where to strengthen your application.

Otherwise, I recommend applying to schools with selection criteria that play to your strengths, like those that focus more heavily on last 45 unit GPA or replace grades for repeated classes. Diversifying your vet experience could also help you stand out more. And schools seem to like leadership experience, so if you have some you might want to include it in your VMCAS, maybe in your personal statement (otherwise you might want to try and get some... Like being a TA, etc).

 

[snapper17]

I've been president and founder of two organizations on my campus, prevet club and also a sports club. Also I have experience with wildlife in Africa, horses at a racetrack, small/exotic at my work place, and large from class. I'm currently waiting until most schools allow me to call and ask for reviews since this time is pretty crazy for them. I applied to a few schools this year and got a total of about 5-6 interviews so may just focus on those schools again for next year if I can bring my weaknesses from there up.
Also looking into pharmacy so if anyone has any ideas there lol

 

[that redhead]

Thanks for the information.
My veterinary experience is well over 2000 hours at my current small animal practice. I understand my gpa is low but has done nothing but increase in the last year. I have had nothing below a 3.4 in my last 45 hours. I am currently doing my masters in one year and will be finished this May so have been taking about 13-15 hours a semester of just masters classes. Right now my plan is to retake organic 2 to raise that grade since it was a C. I also wanted to retake 2-3 other classes in the fall to remove those Cs and replace them hopefully with an A. I do want to go somewhere in the US, don't see being able to pay off St. George or Ross in the next 20-25 years and the fact of never being able to come home and see family isn't appealing to me with older grandparents not in the best of health.

Being far from home for school myself, I completely understand the desire to stay in the States if possible. It's hard missing the important family things, happy or sad. However, the Carribean schools are pretty much in-line tuition-wise (last I heard) with many OOS schools. Just something to consider.

As far as your further information, I think your plan to replace Cs with As is a great one. You might consider throwing in a couple upper level sciences to sweeten the pot. I would recommend that you ask all of the schools that you apply to how they will consider your Masters grades since you've done well and that would really help your application. Your 2000 SA hours are great! You might also want to find some large animal veterinary experience - seems like a lot of people get feedback that they should have more of that.

Best of luck with everything

 

[snapper17]

Being far from home for school myself, I completely understand the desire to stay in the States if possible. It's hard missing the important family things, happy or sad. However, the Carribean schools are pretty much in-line tuition-wise (last I heard) with many OOS schools. Just something to consider.

As far as your further information, I think your plan to replace Cs with As is a great one. You might consider throwing in a couple upper level sciences to sweeten the pot. I would recommend that you ask all of the schools that you apply to how they will consider your Masters grades since you've done well and that would really help your application. Your 2000 SA hours are great! You might also want to find some large animal veterinary experience - seems like a lot of people get feedback that they should have more of that.

Best of luck with everything

Thanks for all the help. Wish I could talk with these other schools before I had to make a decision. But if I don't take Ross I will be retaking my animal phys, comparative, animal nutrition, and organic 2. Giving me 7 hours of biology, 3 chemistry, and 3 animal science.

 

[jwolf22]

I know I definitely need more veterinary hours so I'm working on that. I did apply last cycle and florida basically told me I need to get way more experience with vet hours.

GPA 3.63
GRE 156 V 154 Q and 4.5 W
200 hrs S.A. vet experience
200 hrs Research experience
500 hrs animal husbandry with large animals including tail docking and ear tagging sheep, band castrating bull calves, and caring for other farm animals

Any other recommendations for how to really wow them this year? I am actively looking for vet hours now and I do plan on retaking the GRE as well.

 

[that redhead]

I know I definitely need more veterinary hours so I'm working on that. I did apply last cycle and florida basically told me I need to get way more experience with vet hours.

GPA 3.63
GRE 156 V 154 Q and 4.5 W
200 hrs S.A. vet experience
200 hrs Research experience
500 hrs animal husbandry with large animals including tail docking and ear tagging sheep, band castrating bull calves, and caring for other farm animals

Any other recommendations for how to really wow them this year? I am actively looking for vet hours now and I do plan on retaking the GRE as well.

Sounds like you have a good plan in place. Are you only applying to florida?

Make sure your letters and ps are strong. You might consider a community service activity or other extracurricular in addition to a bunch more vet hours just to show some balance/community involvement.

 

[jwolf22]

I'm definitely applying to florida, penn, oklahoma and georgia. maybe ohio as well not sure about which other schools I want to take a shot at. Yeah, I'm also involving myself in some research dealing with chickens and viruses, and I'm going to volunteer at an animal shelter as well as work on a farm maybe every saturday. I kind of left out my extracurriculars but I probably have enough right now. I do a lot of charity work with cancer fundraisers, and fundraisers for my fraternity. I've also helped clean up my campus and coordinated/set up events on campus as well.

I'm planning on taking a trip to south america with an organization known as VIDA in order to gain surgery experience since they allow college students to perform spays and neuters under supervision there. I think my biggest flaw right now is the vet hours, but thanks for the recommendations

 

[that redhead]

I'm definitely applying to florida, penn, oklahoma and georgia. maybe ohio as well not sure about which other schools I want to take a shot at. Yeah, I'm also involving myself in some research dealing with chickens and viruses, and I'm going to volunteer at an animal shelter as well as work on a farm maybe every saturday. I kind of left out my extracurriculars but I probably have enough right now. I do a lot of charity work with cancer fundraisers, and fundraisers for my fraternity. I've also helped clean up my campus and coordinated/set up events on campus as well.

I'm planning on taking a trip to south america with an organization known as VIDA in order to gain surgery experience since they allow college students to perform spays and neuters under supervision there. I think my biggest flaw right now is the vet hours, but thanks for the recommendations

I would caution you against applying to Georgia if you aren't in state; they are notorious for taking very, very few OOS applicants and those who are selected have really strong gpas. Sounds like your other involvements are strong, just bulk up those vet hours. Good luck!

 

[jwolf22]

Thanks and yeah I heard Georgia is tough with their out of state but I'm from DE. Both Georgia and Oklahoma put DE applicants in with the instate apps, since DE does not have a vet school. So I really should apply to both of them since I have good odds at both schools. But yeah thanks for the warning.

 

[geologist]

Hi! I'm a semi non-trad applicant who is hoping to apply in 2015. I was a geoarchaeology major in college after being told that getting into vet school was too hard, then went into a MS program for geology. I realized geology is not for me and then got interested in vet med again. I ended up leaving my graduate program last quarter. I'd love some feedback on what I can improve on in the next year! I am really hoping to go to my in state, CSU, but I will likely apply to others including Western, Tufts, UPenn, and UMN.

Education: BA in Geoarchaeology from Hamilton College (small LAC in upstate NY), 2 quarters at OSU for geology MS
cGPA: 3.1 (upward trend)
Last 45 GPA: 3.4ish
Most of my courses were archaeology/geology/chemistry and did well in my MS classes (3.7 GPA)

The prereqs for vet school I have are:
Intro chem: C+ (freshman year)
Bio 1: C+ (freshman year)
Biochemistry: B+
Organic Chemistry 1: A-
Organic Chemistry 2: B+
Calculus: B

I plan on taking additional prereqs including microbio, genetics, nutrition, and anatomy or physiology at University of Colorado.

GRE: 162 (V), 158 (Q)

Vet Experience
-120 hours at a shelter (doing intake exams, medicating, surgery support)
-Internship at Colorado Equine Vet Services next week (full time + emergencies)

Animal Experience
-1080 hours on college equestrian team
-500 hours as a working student at a barn
-500+ hours fostering
-Raised chickens for 10 years
-Raised waterfowl for 3 years
-Pet owner (dogs, cats, rodents, birds)

Other Stuff
-2 years as secretary at Communications and Development
-2 years as TA/research assistant in archaeology lab
-2 quarters as research assistant in geology lab, prepping samples for Ar/Ar dating
-2 summers at National Parks leading education programs (one is this summer in Denali)
-2 years on rugby team
-Captain of equestrian team for 3 semesters and held various other e-board positions before

This summer I'll be working as an education program intern at Denali National Park, but I'll also have an opportunity to volunteer in their kennels and shadow their wildlife techs. I'm also hoping to find a veterinarian in Alaska to shadow while I'm up there. In the next year, I plan to take classes and work at a vet clinic/volunteer at the local shelter doing surgery support.

I'd love any advice you guys can give me!

Also, I know I'll have to explain my abrupt change.. This is a short explanation: I've loved science and animals since I was a kid, and I wanted to be a vet for my childhood. When I went to college, that's what I wanted to do, but because of a bad first semester (I didn't know how to study/had undiagnosed ADD) the vet school advisor recommended I pursue other things. Geology was really interesting to me and I loved the people - so it was the path of least resistance. Since then, I learned that just because I'm good at something doesn't mean I'm passionate about it. I still love science and I still love animals, so I decided to explore vet med by volunteering at the shelter.. And I've never been so fascinated and motivated. I love all aspects - animal, science, human, and business. I don't know exactly what I want to go into yet, but I know I will make this dream a reality.

 

[that redhead]

Hi! I'm a semi non-trad applicant who is hoping to apply in 2015. I was a geoarchaeology major in college after being told that getting into vet school was too hard, then went into a MS program for geology. I realized geology is not for me and then got interested in vet med again. I ended up leaving my graduate program last quarter. I'd love some feedback on what I can improve on in the next year! I am really hoping to go to my in state, CSU, but I will likely apply to others including Western, Tufts, UPenn, and UMN.

Education: BA in Geoarchaeology from Hamilton College (small LAC in upstate NY), 2 quarters at OSU for geology MS
cGPA: 3.1 (upward trend)
Last 45 GPA: 3.4ish
Most of my courses were archaeology/geology/chemistry and did well in my MS classes (3.7 GPA)

The prereqs for vet school I have are:
Intro chem: C+ (freshman year)
Bio 1: C+ (freshman year)
Biochemistry: B+
Organic Chemistry 1: A-
Organic Chemistry 2: B+
Calculus: B

I plan on taking additional prereqs including microbio, genetics, nutrition, and anatomy or physiology at University of Colorado.

GRE: 162 (V), 158 (Q)

Vet Experience
-120 hours at a shelter (doing intake exams, medicating, surgery support)
-Internship at Colorado Equine Vet Services next week (full time + emergencies)

Animal Experience
-1080 hours on college equestrian team
-500 hours as a working student at a barn
-500+ hours fostering
-Raised chickens for 10 years
-Raised waterfowl for 3 years
-Pet owner (dogs, cats, rodents, birds)

Other Stuff
-2 years as secretary at Communications and Development
-2 years as TA/research assistant in archaeology lab
-2 quarters as research assistant in geology lab, prepping samples for Ar/Ar dating
-2 summers at National Parks leading education programs (one is this summer in Denali)
-2 years on rugby team
-Captain of equestrian team for 3 semesters and held various other e-board positions before

This summer I'll be working as an education program intern at Denali National Park, but I'll also have an opportunity to volunteer in their kennels and shadow their wildlife techs. I'm also hoping to find a veterinarian in Alaska to shadow while I'm up there. In the next year, I plan to take classes and work at a vet clinic/volunteer at the local shelter doing surgery support.

I'd love any advice you guys can give me!

Also, I know I'll have to explain my abrupt change.. This is a short explanation: I've loved science and animals since I was a kid, and I wanted to be a vet for my childhood. When I went to college, that's what I wanted to do, but because of a bad first semester (I didn't know how to study/had undiagnosed ADD) the vet school advisor recommended I pursue other things. Geology was really interesting to me and I loved the people - so it was the path of least resistance. Since then, I learned that just because I'm good at something doesn't mean I'm passionate about it. I still love science and I still love animals, so I decided to explore vet med by volunteering at the shelter.. And I've never been so fascinated and motivated. I love all aspects - animal, science, human, and business. I don't know exactly what I want to go into yet, but I know I will make this dream a reality.

The biggest pieces of advice I have are to get As in your remaining pre-reqs (even with an upward trend your GPA is on the lower side) and to bulk up your veterinary experience hours significantly (which sounds like you've planned for with your internship). How many hours are you expecting to get out of your internship? I think you should make a strong effort to get vet experience in Alaska, even though shadowing wildlife techs would probably be cooler, it will be better for your application to have the vet experience.

Otherwise it sounds like you have a story to tell and you'll contribute to class diversity. Good luck with your classes

 

[WildZoo]

Hey guys! I'll be applying in the fall and I just wanted to get some advice on what I could do to improve my application with the time I have left. Thanks!

20, Female, FL resident, University of Pittsburgh undergrad

Majors – Biological Sciences and English Fiction Writing

Minors – Chemistry and English Literature

Graduating Spring 2015

I’ll have enough credits to get two separate degrees, a BS in Bio and a BA in Writing, which is exciting for me but may not mean anything to vet schools

Applying:

Florida, Penn, NCSU, UTK


Academics:
I started undergrad with 37 credits from AP/IB exams and have averaged 16 credits per semester
Cum GPA:3.7
Last 45:3.68 (this will obviously be different when I actually apply and will not include the semester where I got a C in organic chem 2)
Overall Science: 3.5
GRE:Taking in April


Experience:
Veterinary: 320

170 as a volunteer in clinic/surgery at two different shelters (this is ongoing ~6 hours/wk)

50 at a private practice small animal hospital

100 as a hospital intern at the National Aviary (also ongoing until May ~18 hours/wk)


Animal: 270

200 as a cat care/dog walking/foster volunteer at the same two shelters

65 as a keeper assistant at a zoo (split between mammal and bird areas)

5 at a wildlife rehab center

I'm also planning on applying for a 6 week internship at a wildlife sanctuary this summer, which will provide mostly animal experience but should provide some vet experience too.

Research:None

Awards:
Dean's list/honor roll for all but one semester so far

Not sure if we can even include awards prior to undergrad but:

Honors College Full Tuition Merit Scholarship

National Merit Semifinalist

International Baccalaureate Degree

AP Honors Scholar


Extracurricular activities:
Fiction writing: This is my biggest extracurricular, and obviously my second major. So far I’ve had two short stories published in the last year and a half.

Book Clubs: I’ve been a member of both the SciFi and Dystopias book clubs here for multiple semesters

eLORS:
2 veterinarians (one from one of the shelters I’ve worked at for 2 years, one from the National Aviary)

1 science professor/advisor (haven’t decided who this will be yet)

1 literature professor (I’ve had 4 classes with him and he knows me better than anyone else here)

Just a minor update, I took the GRE today and got a 168 (V) and 159 (Q). I'm having trouble figuring out what constitutes a "good" quantitative score, so if anyone could help me out with that I would really appreciate it! I'd like to know early whether or not I should consider retaking it to raise the quantitative score.

 

[TheComfyCat]

Just a minor update, I took the GRE today and got a 168 (V) and 159 (Q). I'm having trouble figuring out what constitutes a "good" quantitative score, so if anyone could help me out with that I would really appreciate it! I'd like to know early whether or not I should consider retaking it to raise the quantitative score.

A percentile score of 75%+ is very good, and your GPA looks good as well, so I wouldn't bother retaking it.

 

[Ashgirl]

Just a minor update, I took the GRE today and got a 168 (V) and 159 (Q). I'm having trouble figuring out what constitutes a "good" quantitative score, so if anyone could help me out with that I would really appreciate it! I'd like to know early whether or not I should consider retaking it to raise the quantitative score.

In my opinion, I think your GRE scores look great! I believe my Q score was similar to yours and got around 75%, which is considered quite competitive (at least for all of the schools I applied to). A 168 is going to be in high 90ish% I would assume, which is amazing. Definitely don't retake it, as some schools (not sure about the ones you are applying to) just average your scores anyways. Your GPA is also really good, so I don't think you will have a problem academically at all.

Have you gotten anymore animal or veterinary experience during the year, or expanded to large animal at all? Really, the only thing I would consider improving is perhaps some large animal/equine experience or slightly more hours total, because otherwise you are looking really great

 

[WildZoo]

In my opinion, I think your GRE scores look great! I believe my Q score was similar to yours and got around 75%, which is considered quite competitive (at least for all of the schools I applied to). A 168 is going to be in high 90ish% I would assume, which is amazing. Definitely don't retake it, as some schools (not sure about the ones you are applying to) just average your scores anyways. Your GPA is also really good, so I don't think you will have a problem academically at all.

Have you gotten anymore animal or veterinary experience during the year, or expanded to large animal at all? Really, the only thing I would consider improving is perhaps some large animal/equine experience or slightly more hours total, because otherwise you are looking really great

Thanks!

My internship is ongoing until the end of the semester, so that alone will be about 300 hours. I'm in contact with a few places back home trying to get a job during the summer. If that doesn't work out I'll be at the humane society hospital pretty much every day, and hopefully the zoo once a week. I've also managed to find a mixed practice vet in the area so once I'm back home I'm going to reach out to her to see if I can at least shadow for a day, and hopefully go from there. Serious scarcity of large animal opportunities in my area, but I'm going to try.

 

[Ashgirl]

Thanks!

My internship is ongoing until the end of the semester, so that alone will be about 300 hours. I'm in contact with a few places back home trying to get a job during the summer. If that doesn't work out I'll be at the humane society hospital pretty much every day, and hopefully the zoo once a week. I've also managed to find a mixed practice vet in the area so once I'm back home I'm going to reach out to her to see if I can at least shadow for a day, and hopefully go from there. Serious scarcity of large animal opportunities in my area, but I'm going to try.

That's great! Even if you can get around 50 or so hours in equine or large animal, a lot of schools will look at that. Every little bit counts! Plus, if you get a chance to ride around on farm calls, it is quite different from small animal practice and in my opinion it is a blast.

 

[UFprevet12]

Just a minor update, I took the GRE today and got a 168 (V) and 159 (Q). I'm having trouble figuring out what constitutes a "good" quantitative score, so if anyone could help me out with that I would really appreciate it! I'd like to know early whether or not I should consider retaking it to raise the quantitative score.

Your GRE score is pretty impressive to me! I definitely wouldn't retake it. I don't know about you but I HATED that test. And I really sucked at it! I had to take it 3 times and still couldn't get a decent score. I'm happy Auburn didn't look at my GRE scores as much. Unlike UF who really looked at it. You have a really great chance for UF. Great GRE, good GPA, and diverse experience (just get more hours this summer!) Good luck applying, you got this!

 

[WildZoo]

Your GRE score is pretty impressive to me! I definitely wouldn't retake it. I don't know about you but I HATED that test. And I really sucked at it! I had to take it 3 times and still couldn't get a decent score. I'm happy Auburn didn't look at my GRE scores as much. Unlike UF who really looked at it. You have a really great chance for UF. Great GRE, good GPA, and diverse experience (just get more hours this summer!) Good luck applying, you got this!

UF is what I'm hoping for so that's really reassuring, thanks! And congrats on your acceptance ^_^

 

[geologist]

The biggest pieces of advice I have are to get As in your remaining pre-reqs (even with an upward trend your GPA is on the lower side) and to bulk up your veterinary experience hours significantly (which sounds like you've planned for with your internship). How many hours are you expecting to get out of your internship? I think you should make a strong effort to get vet experience in Alaska, even though shadowing wildlife techs would probably be cooler, it will be better for your application to have the vet experience.

Otherwise it sounds like you have a story to tell and you'll contribute to class diversity. Good luck with your classes

Thank you! I was planning on killing the classes and bulking vet hours up. I'm planning on getting at least 50, but hopefully doing this week will open new opportunities. I'm hoping that I'll be able to intern there a second time or extend my internship, since it's so close to my home. Unfortunately since I'll be in a National Park, I'll have limited opportunities to get vet experience there, but they do have a kennel on site so I'll be meeting the vet that works with the sled dogs and help with puppy vet visits.

 

[HaHa15]

Florida resident, UCF sophmore (junior by credits)
Major Biology (Graduation: Spring 2015)
Minor Chemistry
Cumulative GPA: 3.48
Science GPA: 3.3
Last 45hrs:3.31
GRE: V149, Q150,A 4.0 (will be retaking in May)
Animal Experience hours:
-200hrs at a local animal rescue
-30hrs at Audubon Center for Birds of Prey
-will be volunteering at a farm in May
Vet Experience:
-220hrs at small animal vet clinic (just got a job there so more hours to come)
Research:
-published 61 page Honors in the Major research thesis on marine communities in the Indian River Lagoon, FL
Honors/Awards:
-Delta Epsilon Iota Academic Honor Society
-Phi Eta Sigma National Honor Society
-National Society of Collegiate Scholars
-National Society of Leadership and Success
-Principal's Honor Role Fall 2012
-Dean's List Spring 2013
Extracurricular:
-violin tutor 2012
-Pre-vet Society 2013
-violinist at church Christmas 2010-2013
-violinist at senior living home 2013
Work Experience:
-just started job at small animal vet
-assistant for psychologist 2012-present
I am thinking about applying to UF, Mississippi, Purdue and one of the following: Midwestern, Georgia, Pennsylvania, or Missouri. Thanks for any advice on which schools I should apply to and what I can do to improve my application.

 

[that redhead]

Florida resident, UCF sophmore (junior by credits)
Major Biology (Graduation: Spring 2015)
Minor Chemistry
Cumulative GPA: 3.48
Science GPA: 3.3
Last 45hrs:3.31
GRE: V149, Q150,A 4.0 (will be retaking in May)
Animal Experience hours:
-200hrs at a local animal rescue
-30hrs at Audubon Center for Birds of Prey
-will be volunteering at a farm in May
Vet Experience:
-220hrs at small animal vet clinic (just got a job there so more hours to come)
Research:
-published 61 page Honors in the Major research thesis on marine communities in the Indian River Lagoon, FL
Honors/Awards:
-Delta Epsilon Iota Academic Honor Society
-Phi Eta Sigma National Honor Society
-National Society of Collegiate Scholars
-National Society of Leadership and Success
-Principal's Honor Role Fall 2012
-Dean's List Spring 2013
Extracurricular:
-violin tutor 2012
-Pre-vet Society 2013
-violinist at church Christmas 2010-2013
-violinist at senior living home 2013
Work Experience:
-just started job at small animal vet
-assistant for psychologist 2012-present
I am thinking about applying to UF, Mississippi, Purdue and one of the following: Midwestern, Georgia, Pennsylvania, or Missouri. Thanks for any advice on which schools I should apply to and what I can do to improve my application.

Your biggest weakness is in veterinary hours. You should get as many as possible before applying at the small animal place, but many/most schools want to see some large animal experience in there too. Hopefully there will be a vet you can shadow at the farm - those hours with a vet are important and I'd be prioritizing vet over just animal.

Not sure what your schedule for classes will be in the last year before you graduate, but your GPA looks like it may be trending down a bit? It's really important to do well in the higher level sciences, so make sure you buckle down in those classes and seek out help early if necessary. I think if you can swing the last 45 up a bit and bulk up your vet hours, you'll be putting yourself in a much better position. Good luck

 

[beatles1964]

Florida resident, UCF sophmore (junior by credits)
Major Biology (Graduation: Spring 2015)
Minor Chemistry
Cumulative GPA: 3.48
Science GPA: 3.3
Last 45hrs:3.31
GRE: V149, Q150,A 4.0 (will be retaking in May)
Animal Experience hours:
-200hrs at a local animal rescue
-30hrs at Audubon Center for Birds of Prey
-will be volunteering at a farm in May
Vet Experience:
-220hrs at small animal vet clinic (just got a job there so more hours to come)
Research:
-published 61 page Honors in the Major research thesis on marine communities in the Indian River Lagoon, FL
Honors/Awards:
-Delta Epsilon Iota Academic Honor Society
-Phi Eta Sigma National Honor Society
-National Society of Collegiate Scholars
-National Society of Leadership and Success
-Principal's Honor Role Fall 2012
-Dean's List Spring 2013
Extracurricular:
-violin tutor 2012
-Pre-vet Society 2013
-violinist at church Christmas 2010-2013
-violinist at senior living home 2013
Work Experience:
-just started job at small animal vet
-assistant for psychologist 2012-present
I am thinking about applying to UF, Mississippi, Purdue and one of the following: Midwestern, Georgia, Pennsylvania, or Missouri. Thanks for any advice on which schools I should apply to and what I can do to improve my application.

It would probably be good to do what you can to increase your GPA a tenth of a point or so, but sometimes people are accepted with much lower averages. It's good you plan on retaking the GRE, as painful as that will be. There's room for improvement. I think your hours are probably the weakest part. Definitely continue to work on gaining more hours, but not only in small animal vet med. Schools like to see "breadth and depth" when it comes to experience. So try to get some equine, exotics, wildlife, etc hours, preferably with a vet.

I can't speak for all the schools on your tentative app list, but I know Georgia takes very few OOS applicants, so that's something to look into. And Penn weighs numbers (GPA and GRE) very heavily, so take that into consideration as well.

 

[MathewsMD]

Hi,

I'm only in first year but thought it would be best to hear some opinions first before I continue on. I've only within the past year really strongly considered pursuing veterinary medicine (though I've always been attracted to the field). Bearing this in mind, any information regarding where to go from here and what schools I should strongly consider in the future would be really helpful.

I was raised and am currently studying in Ontario, Canada (if that helps). Originally, I was thinking about human medicine. It's not that I've lost interest in human medicine, I am still looking at it, but veterinary medicine seems extremely appealing. I've never really ventured into the field much and I guess since it is still a little early for me I'll be able to make a better judgement after getting more experience. I can't say I'm exactly like a lot of others who've known they wanted to be vets since they were born, but I certainly am passionate about the field.

I have to take the MCAT and GRE and this could drastically improve or worsen my application. Is there any information about which and how schools will view the 2015 MCAT? I know most require the GRE and a few the MCAT, but any updates pertaining to changes to how different schools will look at the new MCAT would be nice. Now, a bit about me....

Program: Medical Biophysics
cGPA: 4.00/Science GPA: 4.00 (I've only completed first year so far)

-Research Assistant (200 hours: 1 year)

• paper currently under being written
• dealing with vegetative state patients and unconsciousness (not sure how applicable this is to veterinary medicine)

-Administrative Health Assistant (250 hours: half a year)

• handled miscellaneous administrative duties and set up appointments
• worked in an Urgent Care Clinic, Family Practice, and Centre for Women's Health

-MD Shadowing (50 hours: 1 year)
-*Wildlife Conservations Society - member (did very little this year but hope to contribute more in future years/ 10 hours: 1 year)
-*Animal Cruelty Awareness Club - member (50 hours: 1 year)
(nothing major for both these clubs, just a few fundraisers and spreading word)
-Competitive Tennis (75 hours: 1 year/still continuing in the future) and Volleyball (75 hours: 1 year/still continuing in the future) intramurals at my University
-Played high school volleyball (not sure how many hours but a lot in total: 3 years/ should these sports go on my application?)
-Hospital Volunteer (200 hours: 3 years)
-Mathematics Tutor (50 hours: 1 year/after-school volunteer at my high school)

A lot of academic awards and minor scholarships.

Now I just have a few more questions/comments and any clarifications would be greatly appreciated! Sorry if they're unnecessary, foolish or have been asked numerous times!

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am a male and I've heard this is advantageous for admission into veterinary medicine. Seeing as my ECs are not the best for vet schools, I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm also just curious but is being a male in any way beneficial for admissions or is this purely a fallacy?

Also, I was looking at applications and heard some schools need 6 or more references, namely Cornell. Although I have a few possible references, 6 may be pushing it. Do any schools besides Cornell need this many? Being in-province for Guelph, they require at least 2 LoRs from vets in 2 different settings. Is this requirements required or highly stressed for other schools as well?

I'm planning on volunteering at a wildlife rehabilitation centre this summer (May - August, and plan on returning in subsequent summers) and should hopefully have over 100 hours of experience after the summer. This work will be primarily feeding and taking care of animals like raccoons, bats, squirrels and a few others possibly. I plan on volunteering at another wildlife centre (this one deals with raptors) or perhaps a veterinary clinic during the school year (September - April). I plan on continuing all these positions in the future hopefully. I realize I don't have much experience in veterinary care yet and I was really trying to find an opportunity in some sort of animal care setting this summer. Understandably, I was unsuccessful since I don't have much prior experience or particular skills in the field to offer clinics that they should pay me. Would working at a place like Reptilia Zoo be helpful at all and look good for an application to vet school? My main duties would be teaching children more about reptiles and handling them. How is this type of experience viewed by adcom? Since I'm not in the best financial situation, I can only volunteer 1 day a week at the moment at the wildlife rehab centre and will most likely be working as a tutor or at my local gym this summer. The reason I bring this up is because I doubt I will have much past 500 hours by the time of application to vet schools, and this includes total time spent in any setting animal-related whether it is clinical or not. I've spoken with a few vet students and gone over a lot of past posts and it seems having 2500+ hours in a variety of settings is the norm. Vet medicine is surely not for everyone and schools need to know their students know what they're getting themselves into. With this in mind, do I really stand a shot at any vet schools with the minimal experience that I've outlined above that I hope to pursue? Is applying for both human and veterinary medicine at the same time looked down upon or unfavourable in any way? I plan on applying during 3rd and 4th year and I really just want to confirm this is a path I actually have a chance on since I can't afford to spend extra years in school or to pay for unnecessary applications. Sorry for the long post but I just want to ensure this is something I can still do. I plan on continuing the aforementioned positions regardless of me going into vet meds or not. Knowing what paths are open in the future in the timeframe I've outlined would be very helpful to say the least.

Once again, any advice on things I should look out for and tips for a Canadian application would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[that redhead]

Hi,

I'm only in first year but thought it would be best to hear some opinions first before I continue on. I've only within the past year really strongly considered pursuing veterinary medicine (though I've always been attracted to the field). Bearing this in mind, any information regarding where to go from here and what schools I should strongly consider in the future would be really helpful.

I was raised and am currently studying in Ontario, Canada (if that helps). Originally, I was thinking about human medicine. It's not that I've lost interest in human medicine, I am still looking at it, but veterinary medicine seems extremely appealing. I've never really ventured into the field much and I guess since it is still a little early for me I'll be able to make a better judgement after getting more experience. I can't say I'm exactly like a lot of others who've known they wanted to be vets since they were born, but I certainly am passionate about the field.

I have to take the MCAT and GRE and this could drastically improve or worsen my application. Is there any information about which and how schools will view the 2015 MCAT? I know most require the GRE and a few the MCAT, but any updates pertaining to changes to how different schools will look at the new MCAT would be nice. Now, a bit about me....

Program: Medical Biophysics
cGPA: 4.00/Science GPA: 4.00 (I've only completed first year so far)

-Research Assistant (200 hours: 1 year)

• paper currently under being written
• dealing with vegetative state patients and unconsciousness (not sure how applicable this is to veterinary medicine)

-Administrative Health Assistant (250 hours: half a year)

• handled miscellaneous administrative duties and set up appointments
• worked in an Urgent Care Clinic, Family Practice, and Centre for Women's Health

-MD Shadowing (50 hours: 1 year)
-*Wildlife Conservations Society - member (did very little this year but hope to contribute more in future years/ 10 hours: 1 year)
-*Animal Cruelty Awareness Club - member (50 hours: 1 year)
(nothing major for both these clubs, just a few fundraisers and spreading word)
-Competitive Tennis (75 hours: 1 year/still continuing in the future) and Volleyball (75 hours: 1 year/still continuing in the future) intramurals at my University
-Played high school volleyball (not sure how many hours but a lot in total: 3 years/ should these sports go on my application?)
-Hospital Volunteer (200 hours: 3 years)
-Mathematics Tutor (50 hours: 1 year/after-school volunteer at my high school)

A lot of academic awards and minor scholarships.

Now I just have a few more questions/comments and any clarifications would be greatly appreciated! Sorry if they're unnecessary, foolish or have been asked numerous times!

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am a male and I've heard this is advantageous for admission into veterinary medicine. Seeing as my ECs are not the best for vet schools, I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm also just curious but is being a male in any way beneficial for admissions or is this purely a fallacy?

Also, I was looking at applications and heard some schools need 6 or more references, namely Cornell. Although I have a few possible references, 6 may be pushing it. Do any schools besides Cornell need this many? Being in-province for Guelph, they require at least 2 LoRs from vets in 2 different settings. Is this requirements required or highly stressed for other schools as well?

I'm planning on volunteering at a wildlife rehabilitation centre this summer (May - August, and plan on returning in subsequent summers) and should hopefully have over 100 hours of experience after the summer. This work will be primarily feeding and taking care of animals like raccoons, bats, squirrels and a few others possibly. I plan on volunteering at another wildlife centre (this one deals with raptors) or perhaps a veterinary clinic during the school year (September - April). I plan on continuing all these positions in the future hopefully. I realize I don't have much experience in veterinary care yet and I was really trying to find an opportunity in some sort of animal care setting this summer. Understandably, I was unsuccessful since I don't have much prior experience or particular skills in the field to offer clinics that they should pay me. Would working at a place like Reptilia Zoo be helpful at all and look good for an application to vet school? My main duties would be teaching children more about reptiles and handling them. How is this type of experience viewed by adcom? Since I'm not in the best financial situation, I can only volunteer 1 day a week at the moment at the wildlife rehab centre and will most likely be working as a tutor or at my local gym this summer. The reason I bring this up is because I doubt I will have much past 500 hours by the time of application to vet schools, and this includes total time spent in any setting animal-related whether it is clinical or not. I've spoken with a few vet students and gone over a lot of past posts and it seems having 2500+ hours in a variety of settings is the norm. Vet medicine is surely not for everyone and schools need to know their students know what they're getting themselves into. With this in mind, do I really stand a shot at any vet schools with the minimal experience that I've outlined above that I hope to pursue? Is applying for both human and veterinary medicine at the same time looked down upon or unfavourable in any way? I plan on applying during 3rd and 4th year and I really just want to confirm this is a path I actually have a chance on since I can't afford to spend extra years in school or to pay for unnecessary applications. Sorry for the long post but I just want to ensure this is something I can still do. I plan on continuing the aforementioned positions regardless of me going into vet meds or not. Knowing what paths are open in the future in the timeframe I've outlined would be very helpful to say the least.

Once again, any advice on things I should look out for and tips for a Canadian application would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

First of all, welcome to the pre-vet side of SDN I think overall your application looks pretty strong for a first year student and you have plenty of time to make your decision. Some people don't decide to apply until really late, so you aren't in a bad spot just because you haven't always wanted to be a vet.

A couple thoughts:

- The first thing you need to do is get some veterinary experience. You say you're passionate about the field, but I'm not sure how you can feel that strongly when you haven't had the chance to see what it's like first hand. You mention the wildlife center, which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but hours working directly with a vet are a lot more valuable on your application than "just" working with animals in a care-taking setting, even if you are performing some level of veterinary care (medications, etc). I think the best use of your time would be to seek out veterinary experiences (working directly witha vet) over animal experience (working with animals but not with a vet). Sure, many people have thousands of hours, but if the rest of your application (grades, GRE, letters) is strong, 500 hours is absolutely reasonable.

In your particular case, wildlife centers often have a volunteer vet that will come in on certain days - I would ask this place if you would be able to shadow their vet whenever they come around. Then, during the school year, find a position shadowing a veterinarian more "full time" in a setting like small animal, large animal, equine, etc.

- Since you're a Canadian student, your options for vet school are limited to your province's school and foreign schools (US, Caribbean, etc). As far as I understand (and maybe @Coquette22 or @Escalla can chime in), it may be pretty difficult to get government loans to cover the (very high) cost of attendence for an international school. That all being said, the moral of the story is to become very familiar with your province's rules and requirements. (For example, they may look at the MCAT - I have no idea - but you can easily search their website for that information, as well as requirements for letter writers. Schools all have varying writer requirements - some say at least one vet, others want very specific people writing for you. Again, check with the schools you're interested in.)

- Your ECs look good so far. Research is valuable no matter what field you worked in, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Also, I would absolutely include your involvement in sports as you can talk a lot about leadership, teamwork, discipline, etc.

- Being male in and of itself doesn't give you much (if any) of a boost. They may consider you more over an equally qualified female, but it isn't going to make up for deficits in any important categories. However, if you do get in, the odds are in your favor for having women hanging all over you at all times

 

[Escalla]

Yep, like TRH said, you're pretty much funding yourself if you want to attend vet school outside of Canada. The government or a bank wasn't going to lend me the 44K/yr in tuition alone for KState and my parents would have had to find the money.

That combined with tuition being ~10K at Canadian schools, I would definitely focus your efforts on OVC.

 

[Coquette22]

What redhead and Escalla said. You're in-province for Guelph, so throw all your proverbial eggs into that basket. Don't worry about satisfying the requirement for numerous US schools because you're unlikely to find the cash for them unless you're independently wealth. You can expect about $15,000/year from the Canadian government and Ontario government. Maybe up to $150,000 (total) from a bank line of credit, though lines of credit aren't always easy to get depending on you and your family's situation. Plus you've likely got a MUCH higher shot at Guelph then at any of the US schools. Your grades are solid, focus on nailing the MCAT and getting some good LOR.

However, if you do get in, the odds are in your favor for having women hanging all over you at all times

Didn't we make an entire video MOCKING this idea last year?

 

[WildVet18]

Hi,

I'm only in first year but thought it would be best to hear some opinions first before I continue on. I've only within the past year really strongly considered pursuing veterinary medicine (though I've always been attracted to the field). Bearing this in mind, any information regarding where to go from here and what schools I should strongly consider in the future would be really helpful.

I was raised and am currently studying in Ontario, Canada (if that helps). Originally, I was thinking about human medicine. It's not that I've lost interest in human medicine, I am still looking at it, but veterinary medicine seems extremely appealing. I've never really ventured into the field much and I guess since it is still a little early for me I'll be able to make a better judgement after getting more experience. I can't say I'm exactly like a lot of others who've known they wanted to be vets since they were born, but I certainly am passionate about the field.

I have to take the MCAT and GRE and this could drastically improve or worsen my application. Is there any information about which and how schools will view the 2015 MCAT? I know most require the GRE and a few the MCAT, but any updates pertaining to changes to how different schools will look at the new MCAT would be nice. Now, a bit about me....

Program: Medical Biophysics
cGPA: 4.00/Science GPA: 4.00 (I've only completed first year so far)

-Research Assistant (200 hours: 1 year)

• paper currently under being written
• dealing with vegetative state patients and unconsciousness (not sure how applicable this is to veterinary medicine)

-Administrative Health Assistant (250 hours: half a year)

• handled miscellaneous administrative duties and set up appointments
• worked in an Urgent Care Clinic, Family Practice, and Centre for Women's Health

-MD Shadowing (50 hours: 1 year)
-*Wildlife Conservations Society - member (did very little this year but hope to contribute more in future years/ 10 hours: 1 year)
-*Animal Cruelty Awareness Club - member (50 hours: 1 year)
(nothing major for both these clubs, just a few fundraisers and spreading word)
-Competitive Tennis (75 hours: 1 year/still continuing in the future) and Volleyball (75 hours: 1 year/still continuing in the future) intramurals at my University
-Played high school volleyball (not sure how many hours but a lot in total: 3 years/ should these sports go on my application?)
-Hospital Volunteer (200 hours: 3 years)
-Mathematics Tutor (50 hours: 1 year/after-school volunteer at my high school)

A lot of academic awards and minor scholarships.

Now I just have a few more questions/comments and any clarifications would be greatly appreciated! Sorry if they're unnecessary, foolish or have been asked numerous times!

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am a male and I've heard this is advantageous for admission into veterinary medicine. Seeing as my ECs are not the best for vet schools, I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm also just curious but is being a male in any way beneficial for admissions or is this purely a fallacy?

Also, I was looking at applications and heard some schools need 6 or more references, namely Cornell. Although I have a few possible references, 6 may be pushing it. Do any schools besides Cornell need this many? Being in-province for Guelph, they require at least 2 LoRs from vets in 2 different settings. Is this requirements required or highly stressed for other schools as well?

I'm planning on volunteering at a wildlife rehabilitation centre this summer (May - August, and plan on returning in subsequent summers) and should hopefully have over 100 hours of experience after the summer. This work will be primarily feeding and taking care of animals like raccoons, bats, squirrels and a few others possibly. I plan on volunteering at another wildlife centre (this one deals with raptors) or perhaps a veterinary clinic during the school year (September - April). I plan on continuing all these positions in the future hopefully. I realize I don't have much experience in veterinary care yet and I was really trying to find an opportunity in some sort of animal care setting this summer. Understandably, I was unsuccessful since I don't have much prior experience or particular skills in the field to offer clinics that they should pay me. Would working at a place like Reptilia Zoo be helpful at all and look good for an application to vet school? My main duties would be teaching children more about reptiles and handling them. How is this type of experience viewed by adcom? Since I'm not in the best financial situation, I can only volunteer 1 day a week at the moment at the wildlife rehab centre and will most likely be working as a tutor or at my local gym this summer. The reason I bring this up is because I doubt I will have much past 500 hours by the time of application to vet schools, and this includes total time spent in any setting animal-related whether it is clinical or not. I've spoken with a few vet students and gone over a lot of past posts and it seems having 2500+ hours in a variety of settings is the norm. Vet medicine is surely not for everyone and schools need to know their students know what they're getting themselves into. With this in mind, do I really stand a shot at any vet schools with the minimal experience that I've outlined above that I hope to pursue? Is applying for both human and veterinary medicine at the same time looked down upon or unfavourable in any way? I plan on applying during 3rd and 4th year and I really just want to confirm this is a path I actually have a chance on since I can't afford to spend extra years in school or to pay for unnecessary applications. Sorry for the long post but I just want to ensure this is something I can still do. I plan on continuing the aforementioned positions regardless of me going into vet meds or not. Knowing what paths are open in the future in the timeframe I've outlined would be very helpful to say the least.

Once again, any advice on things I should look out for and tips for a Canadian application would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Hi and welcome to the pre-vet forum! You've gotten some great advice from the posters above, but as someone who started out pre-med and only switched to pre-vet junior year, I wanted to add my two cents. First of all it is absolutely okay that you are still deciding at this point in your education, but I also think it is far too early to truly say what your chances are, even with the detailed plan you have laid out. You clearly know how to get As in college, so keep that up but don't feel bad if you get Bs in the upper sciences like ochem, biochem, etc. Both med and vet school would prefer a 3.7 student with great experience over a 4.0 student with minimal experience. I, too, began planning all four years of college, all summers and vacations, when I would take tests, etc. during my first year in college, and pretty much all of it changed. You know what they say about "The best laid plans of mice and men..." Sorry for the cheesiness but couldn't help quoting that here Anyway it's great to plan but just make sure you stay open to changing those plans, otherwise you may miss out on amazing opportunities.

As for your MCAT/recommendation question, I would NOT advise counting on the MCAT for vet school. I don't know about Guelph, but the only vet school I can think of off the top of my head that still takes MCAT is Cornell. More schools used to accept it, but many having been dropping that option. So if anything I would guess that when it comes time for you to apply fewer schools will accept it, not more. And no, most vet schools do not require 6 LORS. VMCAS (the centralized vet school app for almost all US schools and many Canadian) requires only 3 and accepts up to 6. Cornell requires that many because they want a letter from each experience you list on your application, but most schools do not expect this.

In terms of it "looking bad" applying to both vet and med school, I would say that probably it would not look "bad" per say, but it would appear kind of like you are unsure what you want, which I think would definitely hurt you for both types of schools. Both vet and med schools invest a lot of time and energy in their students, and with so few spots available they want people who really know the want to be a physician/vet. Certainly they will not hold it against you that you considered both career paths, and definitely you can go ahead and list experiences from both types of medicine on whatever application you choose. But by the time you apply you should have made the decision, and probably should have dedicated a good bit of time before that application to the discipline you choose. If you make the choice right before applying, it again shows that you are not sure what you want as a career. I applied about a year after deciding on vet med, had about 1,000 hours of veterinary experience at two different facilities. I was told the main reason I got wait list at the school I applied to (only did one for my first application round) was that they just really weren't sure I had had enough experience to know that I wanted to go in to vet medicine. They said if I got more experience over the next year and still wanted to go in to vet med, I would have a good shot if I applied again. I did what they suggested and got in there (and at another school) on my second application. So I'm thinking that 500 hours may be too few.

That all being said, here is what I would recommend to you. Take your time deciding what you want to do career wise, it's perfectly all right to take that time. However do not count on being able to apply before the end of college. It's still possible at this point, but you would have to choose pretty soon and dedicate a lot of time getting experience/preparing for tests in that discipline. I completely understand that you cannot afford more undergrad schooling beyond four years, I think many, many people are in the same situation. As long as you get the necessary pre-requisites in before you graduate, that shouldn't be necessary. What you should consider is taking some time off after graduating (even just a year would be really helpful) and take that time to work and improve your application! If you can get a paid job in whatever field you have chosen at that point, great, but if not you can get any paying job and spend time on weekends/evenings getting hours in vet or human med. You might actually end up better financially if you do this, because you could save up some money that would help you pay application fees, get to interviews, etc. That way you don't have to rush your decision!

In terms of gaining experience, I feel your pain in terms of getting experience without experience. Even after hundreds of vet experience hours at various internships, local vet clinics around my school wouldn't even let me SHADOW because it was a liability (I went to school in LA, so people there are pretty sue-happy). But in other areas of the country I have had no problem getting shadowing opportunities...just don't expect it to be paid. Look for animal experiences (like the zoo you mentioned), shelters, horse farms, etc., but try to find them at areas where there is a vet working, even part time. That way while gaining animal experience, you can hopefully make contact with vets and that can lead to great shadowing opportunities! Another recommendation is to look within your own school. If you have an animal science department or anything similar at your school, take some of their classes because they often involve some hands-on experience and opportunities to meet people in the veterinary field, and all while getting school credit! Also ask around your biology department, especially professors doing research with animals, and see if they need any help caring for the lab animals. At my school, this was a paid job. Finally sometimes the best opportunity for getting in-depth vet experience is to apply internships specifically intended for pre-vet students, rather than applying for jobs open to anyone. The jobs will more likely go to the certified techs, etc., but the internships are more open to take people without much experience. Many of these are not paid unfortunately, but some will include free housing or maybe even food (two I can think of are Cape Wildlife Center, where I worked, and CROW on Sanibel Island). Some may offer housing and a small stipend (Animal Care Sanctuary in East Smithfield, PA, is one I worked at and they offer housing and a $100/week stipend. Not much, but it paid for food and gas).

If you are interested in reading about my pre-med to pre-vet journey, you can read my post here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ts-class-of-2018.1044809/page-3#post-15079995 and feel free to PM me!

Wow sorry for the epically long post...hope it's helpful.!

 

[LyraGardenia]

Hi all! So I've avoided posting in this thread for a long time now, because I'm nervous about being told that I've totally screwed myself over. However, I applied this past cycle and got rejected from all three I applied to (Mizzou -- my IS, with an interview; OK State due to a prereq issue that I overlooked ; and Purdue). I'm going to reapply for this upcoming cycle, and I know I've got my work cut out for me again, but I'd like some honest feedback on just how screwed I am. I'm definitely going to apply to Mizzou and OK State again, and I'm still deciding on probably two others. I didn't do a file review at Purdue because I don't plan on applying there again (it was kind of an arbitrary choice and I think others would be a better fit), OK State didn't offer it due to it being a prereq issue, and I'm going to do a file review at Mizzou as soon as I can (my rejection letter said to contact them after April 30th). Anyways, all that being said, my info:

21, female, Missouri resident

Degrees:
B.S. in Biology this May, Missouri State University, Minor in Psychology (it's just a subject of personal interest. I think it helps make me well-rounded, plus I can say that knowing some about how people think helps in dealing with clients!)

Cum GPA: 3.61
Science GPA: ~3.36 depending on which classes you include
Last 45 units: estimated 3.62 based on how this semester's grades are looking
However, it really depends on how you calculate those. You see, the kicker is that I've really struggled with organic 2. I'm currently taking it for the 5th time. Yeah, I know. I got a D, then an F, then another D, then another F (in hindsight, I really should have dropped it last semester). I'm on track to get at least a C, hopefully a B in it this semester. Honestly, I don't have a great explanation for it -- no illnesses or family troubles or full-time jobs. However, I didn't get a very good foundation with organic because my professor for organic 1, and organic 2 the first time around was new to Missouri State, and ended up no longer teaching organic after that year, I'm guessing because of VERY poor grades and evaluations from his students. My organic 2 class with him had a final grade average of 50% -- yikes! Then after that, I've alternated professors each semester, and the one that I failed twice with just did not have a teaching or testing style that worked for me. The last time I got a D I was very close to a C.

I didn't mention any of this in my app last year, and I think I just briefly mentioned not getting a good foundation in organic in my Mizzou interview, because I know it looks bad to blame professors for poor performance, and I know I should have gotten my butt in gear a lot sooner. I think I kept screwing up again and again because due to a weird combination of overconfidence and embarrassment, I wouldn't study near as much as I should have. I would think "oh, I already know this stuff, I don't need to study it" and then even when it became clear that I didn't, I was so embarrassed that just opening the textbook made me feel horrible about myself. I felt guilty every time friends and family would ask me how it was going, to the point that no one in my personal life knows I'm re-taking it this time (I hate lying to people, but apparently it's helped!). However, I've finally learned from my mistakes, and I'm doing a lot better this time around. I'm also taking biochem right now and on track to get a B in there as well, so I don't think I have an issue applying the basics from organic. I just can't seem to master those damn mechanisms! But anyway, in my Mizzou interview I also tried to spin it as an opportunity to learn from my mistakes and deal with failure and not give up, etc., and I think that's my best angle. It definitely shows that I don't give up easily. I've heard several classmates say they switched from being pre-vet or pre-med after getting a C in organic or another tough science course, and it has crossed my mind that this might mean I'm not cut out for vet school (you don't get second chances in vet school, let alone third or fourth or fifth), but I never seriously considered giving up, because it's been my dream to be a vet since I was little.

I'm going to be looking at which schools only include the most recent attempt at repeated courses in their GPA calculations (which is what Missouri State, my undergrad school, does) but I know it will all still be visible on my transcript no matter what, so unfortunately it's something that I'll have to live with. Mizzou averages repeated courses and had my cum GPA at a 3.38, and last 45 units at 3.05 (they don't calculate a science GPA). Everything should improve once this semester's grades are out, although I haven't had a really clear upward trend. Like I said I'm graduating in May, and making efforts to raise my GPA would be an uphill, impractical battle given the number of hours I have at this point. I know even with only including my most recent attempt at organic 2, my GPA could be better. However, I've only had two other grades lower than B's -- a C in organic 1, and a C+ in general physiology (the latter of which was within mere points of a B, and I got an A last semester in a more advanced physiology class with the same professor). I'd rather not spend the money to retake either of those, and I don't know if I'd be able to improve those grades much. Postbacc work or grad school also isn't something I'm interested in, because my only real option would be staying at Missouri State, since I'm not interested in moving until I get into vet school (my job, my family, my boyfriend, and most of my friends are here). I've honestly taken all of the courses that I'm really interested in at MSU (I came in with a ton of AP credit, so I had some wiggle room in my schedule), and I'm not interested in doing a masters because none of the research that professors here are doing has grabbed my interest. Feel free to tell me if I should reconsider, but I don't want to spend my time or money on more classes or another degree if it's not something that I really want to do or that will do me much good.

Veterinary Experience:
This is another weak area. When I applied last time I only had about 250, most from one SA clinic (some just shadowing, and some work as a vet assistant/receptionist) along with a couple one-day shadowing experiences in high school. I know that's really low when I've wanted to be a vet for so long, but I didn't get the memo that you need hundreds of shadowing hours to be competitive until late in my sophomore year of college, and it was hard to get a ton of hours since then with my schedule and wanting to focus on doing well in my classes. I know it's my fault again, but I'm working at a different SA clinic (that also sees some exotics!) as a vet assistant now, and I've currently got about 70 hours from there, bringing my total to ~320 hours. It should be a LOT more by the time I apply again, because I'll be working pretty much full-time this summer, and throughout the next year. I'm also going to work on getting as much LA and equine experience as I can over the summer, because I've got basically zilch now.

Animal Experience:
~20 hours caring for boarding/hospitalized animals on the weekends at the clinics I've worked at
32 hours volunteering cleaning cages and walking dogs at a local animal adoption center
40 hour internship at the local zoo assisting zookeepers with cleaning enclosures and feeding animals
~25 hours from a horseback riding class, but IIRC they say not to include classroom experiences
I've also owned at least one cat for the past 11 years, but I didn't mention that on my app because I know opinions vary about whether to include pet ownership, and none of them have ever had serious medical issues (knock on wood!) or anything requiring special care.

Research:
Nothing other than a project with crayfish for a class. Not sure if it's worth mentioning, it wasn't even a very good experiment.

Other employment:
Part-time phone survey caller for the sociology department at Missouri State, for a ~3-month long project. Talk about a random first job, right?

Letters of Recommendation:
-SA vet at the first clinic I worked at. I shadowed/worked there for two summers and he really liked me, in fact they called me to ask me to come back the second summer before I could call them! So as far as I know that letter was very positive.
-Certified vet tech from that same clinic (this one I'll probably replace with one of the vets from the clinic I'm working at now). Again, as far as I know it was very positive.
-Undergrad academic advisor. This is the one I'm most unsure about, as he doesn't know me super-well, but he had me do a bit of an interview with him before he wrote the LOR so it wasn't totally bland. I may also replace this one with another vet, but I haven't really decided.

GRE:
165 V, 159 Q, 5.5 A (on my first try! )

Leadership experience/extracurriculars:
-Induction chair, then secretary of Phi Eta Sigma national honor society (one of the largest organizations at Missouri State). We do a lot of community service activities, as well as social events for our members.
-Event coordinator, then vice-president of Tri-Beta biology honor society
-Morale committee member for Dance Marathon (12-hour fundraiser for Children's Miracle Network)
-Member of pre-vet club (but I wasn't very involved, their meeting times never seemed to work for me...)
-Member of Thespians in high school, and I took dance lessons (ballet, jazz and modern) for 12 years up through HS, and was on my dance studio's competition team for 2 years
-Member of Latin Club in high school
-Some volunteer experiences at a local library and a local hospital in high school

Honors/awards:
-My honor society memberships
-Dean's List both semesters of my freshman year at MSU
-Full tuition academic-based scholarship all four years at MSU
-Salutatorian (one of ~10 since I went to a large high school), distinguished graduate, and distinguished service graduate in high school

Other stuff:
-I don't really have any life experiences/diverse qualities that make me stand out in a good way. :/
-I think my personal statement was good, but I only had a couple other people read it over since I wrote it at the last minute, so I'll revise it, get more people to look it over, and put more thought into it this time around.
-I didn't include an explanation statement last time, and I don't know if I should this time kind of putting my positive spin on the organic situation (again, not blaming the professors), or if that's the sort of thing I should wait to talk about in interviews.
-I felt really confident about my interview at Mizzou (thanks, SDN interview feedback questions!), so unless I read the situation completely wrong, I don't think that was the deciding factor in my rejection.
-If I still don't get in anywhere this coming application cycle, I'll probably look at Ross and SGU. They're my last resort, since I'd rather not be that far away from my loved ones, not to mention in a third-world country, but it's better than not going to vet school at all.

Sorry for writing a bit of a novel here, but if even one person reads this and has some advice/insight to offer, I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

[Kyoht]

@LyraGardenia, IMO you should decide whether or not you really want to discuss you poor grades in O-chem on your application. You don't want to bring all the attention to your mistakes. This could happen if you talk about it all throughout your application and at the interview. I would just take responsibility for them by possibly mentioning them in your explanation statement. I had many more F's than you (cum GPA 2.81) and dropped out from college a few times and I got in on my first try. What I decided to do was write a short paragraph in my explanation section. It pretty much said that I take full responsibility for my actions that led to my poor grades, that I have since changed/matured, and that I do not foresee this as being a problem for me in the future. I didn't mention my grades at the interview or in my personal statement. I focused on my strengths.

Looking at the rest of your application I would suggest increasing vet experience with LA and other more varied experiences. I had a massive amount of vet experience, but it was in a mixed practice so we saw everything! Also research experience could help you stand out as well. I feel that my research experience and varied vet experience helped me overcome my poor GPA. I hope that this helps you get some ideas of what to do. Just remember that there are applicants with lower grades than you and they get in. Don't focus everything on your mistakes and Good luck!

 

[WildZoo]

Hi all! So I've avoided posting in this thread for a long time now, because I'm nervous about being told that I've totally screwed myself over. However, I applied this past cycle and got rejected from all three I applied to (Mizzou -- my IS, with an interview; OK State due to a prereq issue that I overlooked ; and Purdue). I'm going to reapply for this upcoming cycle, and I know I've got my work cut out for me again, but I'd like some honest feedback on just how screwed I am. I'm definitely going to apply to Mizzou and OK State again, and I'm still deciding on probably two others. I didn't do a file review at Purdue because I don't plan on applying there again (it was kind of an arbitrary choice and I think others would be a better fit), OK State didn't offer it due to it being a prereq issue, and I'm going to do a file review at Mizzou as soon as I can (my rejection letter said to contact them after April 30th). Anyways, all that being said, my info:

21, female, Missouri resident

Degrees:
B.S. in Biology this May, Missouri State University, Minor in Psychology (it's just a subject of personal interest. I think it helps make me well-rounded, plus I can say that knowing some about how people think helps in dealing with clients!)

Cum GPA: 3.61
Science GPA: ~3.36 depending on which classes you include
Last 45 units: estimated 3.62 based on how this semester's grades are looking
However, it really depends on how you calculate those. You see, the kicker is that I've really struggled with organic 2. I'm currently taking it for the 5th time. Yeah, I know. I got a D, then an F, then another D, then another F (in hindsight, I really should have dropped it last semester). I'm on track to get at least a C, hopefully a B in it this semester. Honestly, I don't have a great explanation for it -- no illnesses or family troubles or full-time jobs. However, I didn't get a very good foundation with organic because my professor for organic 1, and organic 2 the first time around was new to Missouri State, and ended up no longer teaching organic after that year, I'm guessing because of VERY poor grades and evaluations from his students. My organic 2 class with him had a final grade average of 50% -- yikes! Then after that, I've alternated professors each semester, and the one that I failed twice with just did not have a teaching or testing style that worked for me. The last time I got a D I was very close to a C.

I didn't mention any of this in my app last year, and I think I just briefly mentioned not getting a good foundation in organic in my Mizzou interview, because I know it looks bad to blame professors for poor performance, and I know I should have gotten my butt in gear a lot sooner. I think I kept screwing up again and again because due to a weird combination of overconfidence and embarrassment, I wouldn't study near as much as I should have. I would think "oh, I already know this stuff, I don't need to study it" and then even when it became clear that I didn't, I was so embarrassed that just opening the textbook made me feel horrible about myself. I felt guilty every time friends and family would ask me how it was going, to the point that no one in my personal life knows I'm re-taking it this time (I hate lying to people, but apparently it's helped!). However, I've finally learned from my mistakes, and I'm doing a lot better this time around. I'm also taking biochem right now and on track to get a B in there as well, so I don't think I have an issue applying the basics from organic. I just can't seem to master those damn mechanisms! But anyway, in my Mizzou interview I also tried to spin it as an opportunity to learn from my mistakes and deal with failure and not give up, etc., and I think that's my best angle. It definitely shows that I don't give up easily. I've heard several classmates say they switched from being pre-vet or pre-med after getting a C in organic or another tough science course, and it has crossed my mind that this might mean I'm not cut out for vet school (you don't get second chances in vet school, let alone third or fourth or fifth), but I never seriously considered giving up, because it's been my dream to be a vet since I was little.

I'm going to be looking at which schools only include the most recent attempt at repeated courses in their GPA calculations (which is what Missouri State, my undergrad school, does) but I know it will all still be visible on my transcript no matter what, so unfortunately it's something that I'll have to live with. Mizzou averages repeated courses and had my cum GPA at a 3.38, and last 45 units at 3.05 (they don't calculate a science GPA). Everything should improve once this semester's grades are out, although I haven't had a really clear upward trend. Like I said I'm graduating in May, and making efforts to raise my GPA would be an uphill, impractical battle given the number of hours I have at this point. I know even with only including my most recent attempt at organic 2, my GPA could be better. However, I've only had two other grades lower than B's -- a C in organic 1, and a C+ in general physiology (the latter of which was within mere points of a B, and I got an A last semester in a more advanced physiology class with the same professor). I'd rather not spend the money to retake either of those, and I don't know if I'd be able to improve those grades much. Postbacc work or grad school also isn't something I'm interested in, because my only real option would be staying at Missouri State, since I'm not interested in moving until I get into vet school (my job, my family, my boyfriend, and most of my friends are here). I've honestly taken all of the courses that I'm really interested in at MSU (I came in with a ton of AP credit, so I had some wiggle room in my schedule), and I'm not interested in doing a masters because none of the research that professors here are doing has grabbed my interest. Feel free to tell me if I should reconsider, but I don't want to spend my time or money on more classes or another degree if it's not something that I really want to do or that will do me much good.

Veterinary Experience:
This is another weak area. When I applied last time I only had about 250, most from one SA clinic (some just shadowing, and some work as a vet assistant/receptionist) along with a couple one-day shadowing experiences in high school. I know that's really low when I've wanted to be a vet for so long, but I didn't get the memo that you need hundreds of shadowing hours to be competitive until late in my sophomore year of college, and it was hard to get a ton of hours since then with my schedule and wanting to focus on doing well in my classes. I know it's my fault again, but I'm working at a different SA clinic (that also sees some exotics!) as a vet assistant now, and I've currently got about 70 hours from there, bringing my total to ~320 hours. It should be a LOT more by the time I apply again, because I'll be working pretty much full-time this summer, and throughout the next year. I'm also going to work on getting as much LA and equine experience as I can over the summer, because I've got basically zilch now.

Animal Experience:
~20 hours caring for boarding/hospitalized animals on the weekends at the clinics I've worked at
32 hours volunteering cleaning cages and walking dogs at a local animal adoption center
40 hour internship at the local zoo assisting zookeepers with cleaning enclosures and feeding animals
~25 hours from a horseback riding class, but IIRC they say not to include classroom experiences
I've also owned at least one cat for the past 11 years, but I didn't mention that on my app because I know opinions vary about whether to include pet ownership, and none of them have ever had serious medical issues (knock on wood!) or anything requiring special care.

Research:
Nothing other than a project with crayfish for a class. Not sure if it's worth mentioning, it wasn't even a very good experiment.

Other employment:
Part-time phone survey caller for the sociology department at Missouri State, for a ~3-month long project. Talk about a random first job, right?

Letters of Recommendation:
-SA vet at the first clinic I worked at. I shadowed/worked there for two summers and he really liked me, in fact they called me to ask me to come back the second summer before I could call them! So as far as I know that letter was very positive.
-Certified vet tech from that same clinic (this one I'll probably replace with one of the vets from the clinic I'm working at now). Again, as far as I know it was very positive.
-Undergrad academic advisor. This is the one I'm most unsure about, as he doesn't know me super-well, but he had me do a bit of an interview with him before he wrote the LOR so it wasn't totally bland. I may also replace this one with another vet, but I haven't really decided.

GRE:
165 V, 159 Q, 5.5 A (on my first try! )

Leadership experience/extracurriculars:
-Induction chair, then secretary of Phi Eta Sigma national honor society (one of the largest organizations at Missouri State). We do a lot of community service activities, as well as social events for our members.
-Event coordinator, then vice-president of Tri-Beta biology honor society
-Morale committee member for Dance Marathon (12-hour fundraiser for Children's Miracle Network)
-Member of pre-vet club (but I wasn't very involved, their meeting times never seemed to work for me...)
-Member of Thespians in high school, and I took dance lessons (ballet, jazz and modern) for 12 years up through HS, and was on my dance studio's competition team for 2 years
-Member of Latin Club in high school
-Some volunteer experiences at a local library and a local hospital in high school

Honors/awards:
-My honor society memberships
-Dean's List both semesters of my freshman year at MSU
-Full tuition academic-based scholarship all four years at MSU
-Salutatorian (one of ~10 since I went to a large high school), distinguished graduate, and distinguished service graduate in high school

Other stuff:
-I don't really have any life experiences/diverse qualities that make me stand out in a good way. :/
-I think my personal statement was good, but I only had a couple other people read it over since I wrote it at the last minute, so I'll revise it, get more people to look it over, and put more thought into it this time around.
-I didn't include an explanation statement last time, and I don't know if I should this time kind of putting my positive spin on the organic situation (again, not blaming the professors), or if that's the sort of thing I should wait to talk about in interviews.
-I felt really confident about my interview at Mizzou (thanks, SDN interview feedback questions!), so unless I read the situation completely wrong, I don't think that was the deciding factor in my rejection.
-If I still don't get in anywhere this coming application cycle, I'll probably look at Ross and SGU. They're my last resort, since I'd rather not be that far away from my loved ones, not to mention in a third-world country, but it's better than not going to vet school at all.

Sorry for writing a bit of a novel here, but if even one person reads this and has some advice/insight to offer, I'd greatly appreciate it!

I won't say much about the GPA aspect - I'm sure someone around here knows which schools only include your most recent attempt for a course in their calculations. I will say that it doesn't seem like a hopeless situation to me. The fact that you got an interview with Mizzou tells me that. Your GPA also isn't bad by any means, and since you're graduating and aren't interesting in doing a post-bacc or a masters, I'd say your best bet would be to focus on other aspects of your application. Your GRE scores are almost exactly the same as mine, and I've been told my scores were competitive, so I don't think you have anything to worry about there.

Just from what I've seen around here, diversity in your experience is a big deal, and I think Mizzou is a school that likes to see that. The full time job is going to be great for small animal, but definitely look into getting LA and equine hours too, and exotics if you can. And make sure to build relationships with the vets you end up working with so you can get excellent recommendation letters. Unless I missed it, I don't think you mentioned where your eLORs came from and whether you were sure of how positive they were.

 

[LyraGardenia]

@LyraGardenia, IMO you should decide whether or not you really want to discuss you poor grades in O-chem on your application. You don't want to bring all the attention to your mistakes. This could happen if you talk about it all throughout your application and at the interview. I would just take responsibility for them by possibly mentioning them in your explanation statement. I had many more F's than you (cum GPA 2.81) and dropped out from college a few times and I got in on my first try. What I decided to do was write a short paragraph in my explanation section. It pretty much said that I take full responsibility for my actions that led to my poor grades, that I have since changed/matured, and that I do not foresee this as being a problem for me in the future. I didn't mention my grades at the interview or in my personal statement. I focused on my strengths.

Looking at the rest of your application I would suggest increasing vet experience with LA and other more varied experiences. I had a massive amount of vet experience, but it was in a mixed practice so we saw everything! Also research experience could help you stand out as well. I feel that my research experience and varied vet experience helped me overcome my poor GPA. I hope that this helps you get some ideas of what to do. Just remember that there are applicants with lower grades than you and they get in. Don't focus everything on your mistakes and Good luck!

Thank you, that really helps! I didn't go into my interview intending to dwell on my poor organic grades, but it was literally the first thing they asked about, and in retrospect I may have talked about it more than I should have. Mizzou's interviews are only 15 minutes, and that time FLIES by! I think I will write a short explanation statement about it, but try to turn the conversation in any interviews I get in a more positive direction. I tend to get pretty down on myself, so it's hard to focus on emphasizing my strengths rather than explaining my weaknesses!

Thank you @WildZoo for the confidence boost as well! I did mention my eLORs, but it's understandable that you missed it in my wall of text.

 

[WildZoo]

Thank you, that really helps! I didn't go into my interview intending to dwell on my poor organic grades, but it was literally the first thing they asked about, and in retrospect I may have talked about it more than I should have. Mizzou's interviews are only 15 minutes, and that time FLIES by! I think I will write a short explanation statement about it, but try to turn the conversation in any interviews I get in a more positive direction. I tend to get pretty down on myself, so it's hard to focus on emphasizing my strengths rather than explaining my weaknesses!

Thank you @WildZoo for the confidence boost as well! I did mention my eLORs, but it's understandable that you missed it in my wall of text.

Just went back and saw it haha, I tried to read everything but I just finished writing an 8 page paper so my brain is a little dead! Anyway, it is probably a good idea to replace the one from the tech with one from a vet from a different place, if only because it may be more helpful to have letters from different experiences rather than two from the same experience. Make sure to look at the specifics for letter requirements though, I don't know about Mizzou but I know some schools want to have at least one eLOR from an academic source, so you may not want to replace the one from your advisor with one from a vet.

 

[Ashgirl]

Hello again @LyraGardenia!

As Wildzoo mentioned, it looks like increasing the diversity of your vet and animal experience will be beneficial for you. I know it's hard to find, but if you can search for a large animal or equine vet to shadow for a bit, I think that would really help diversify your application.

Your GRE looks great, though for better or worse I know Mizzou only counts it as 4%.

As for LORs, it's up to you. I could be mistaken, but I don't think Mizzou has a preference for LORs necessarily. For me, I would want quality. So if you think that your adviser knows you better than a vet, then go ahead and keep it. If you find another vet that you really like and you think will write you a good letter, then replace it (or just add the new vet one as well. I believe some schools accept 5 letters, such as Mizzou or Purdue). I know some schools like to see letter writers that can assess you in different situations (academic, vet med, leadership, etc), so you might want to consider that as well.

 

[remi4301]

@LyraGardenia, IMO you should decide whether or not you really want to discuss you poor grades in O-chem on your application. You don't want to bring all the attention to your mistakes. This could happen if you talk about it all throughout your application and at the interview. I would just take responsibility for them by possibly mentioning them in your explanation statement. I had many more F's than you (cum GPA 2.81) and dropped out from college a few times and I got in on my first try. What I decided to do was write a short paragraph in my explanation section. It pretty much said that I take full responsibility for my actions that led to my poor grades, that I have since changed/matured, and that I do not foresee this as being a problem for me in the future. I didn't mention my grades at the interview or in my personal statement. I focused on my strengths.

Looking at the rest of your application I would suggest increasing vet experience with LA and other more varied experiences. I had a massive amount of vet experience, but it was in a mixed practice so we saw everything! Also research experience could help you stand out as well. I feel that my research experience and varied vet experience helped me overcome my poor GPA. I hope that this helps you get some ideas of what to do. Just remember that there are applicants with lower grades than you and they get in. Don't focus everything on your mistakes and Good luck!

I agree! I left out grade talk in my PS too, and addressed it in the explanation section. Owned up to it, and focused on what I've done to assure there is no longer a problem. This forum gave me that wise advice.

 

[smallbiz2doc]

As a non-trad, I have been denying where I know my heart is, working with animals and the medical sciences. I have believed that my only chance to fulfill the medical side, with my old stats in tow, is DO school. However, I just can't accept my reasons for going into human instead of veterinary medicine. My biggest problem is I work very well with people, but mostly because there are animals around or at least as the topic of conversation, otherwise I feel out of my element. The more I relinqish pet sitting territory for human pre-med efforts, the more wrong I feel about this whole thing. Animals are pretty much my link to humanity, and a strong one considering my reputation in this area as a pet sitter. I just keep thinking I should be pursuing pre-vet activities, not pre-med (my interest in medical science is what draws me away from my current line of work, but pulling myself away from animal work in this process I fear is not worth it). Case in point, most of my volunteer efforts thus far have been with animals.

So here goes. My first degree over a decade ago in business yielded a whopping 2.5 GPA. I am now getting straight A's as I pursue a 2nd degree in Math/Stats with all the more interesting medical pre-reqs (clearly I am in school to learn something this time around). I expect a high score on the MCAT (or VCAT now?), not without serious effort, of course. However, even with straight A's, the best overall I can hope for (next to 3.9ish science GPA) is a 3.2, maybe 3.4 if I add a minor and take 5 years. I've been told the reinvention aspect of my story would be recognized by med school adcoms as reason to give my app a look. Could the same be said for veterinary school admissions, or is it really that much more competitive than med school?

 

[KCgophervet]

I expect a high score on the MCAT (or VCAT now?), not without serious effort, of course. However, even with straight A's, the best overall I can hope for (next to 3.9ish science GPA) is a 3.2, maybe 3.4 if I add a minor and take 5 years. I've been told the reinvention aspect of my story would be recognized by med school adcoms as reason to give my app a look. Could the same be said for veterinary school admissions, or is it really that much more competitive than med school?

First off, pretty sure the VCAT no longer exists, most vet schools take the GRE nowadays.

Secondly, do you have any actual experience with a vet? I would start looking into that, and all the issues with the profession at the moment, before making too drastic of a decision. Loving animals and science are both great qualities, but you also need to be cognizant of the actualities of vet med specifically.

Just my short 2 cents on the subject - otherwise there are tons of non-trads around and there are schools that weight your GPA more heavily on the most recent 45 credits or just the prerequisite classes (UMN specifically). Look into the schools you'd be interested in and see what their policy is (or just do a little more digging on these forums and I'm sure a lot has been answered before).

 

[smallbiz2doc]

First off, pretty sure the VCAT no longer exists, most vet schools take the GRE nowadays.

Secondly, do you have any actual experience with a vet? I would start looking into that, and all the issues with the profession at the moment, before making too drastic of a decision. Loving animals and science are both great qualities, but you also need to be cognizant of the actualities of vet med specifically.

Just my short 2 cents on the subject - otherwise there are tons of non-trads around and there are schools that weight your GPA more heavily on the most recent 45 credits or just the prerequisite classes (UMN specifically). Look into the schools you'd be interested in and see what their policy is (or just do a little more digging on these forums and I'm sure a lot has been answered before).

Thank you.

 

[that redhead]

As a non-trad, I have been denying where I know my heart is, working with animals and the medical sciences. I have believed that my only chance to fulfill the medical side, with my old stats in tow, is DO school. However, I just can't accept my reasons for going into human instead of veterinary medicine. My biggest problem is I work very well with people, but mostly because there are animals around or at least as the topic of conversation, otherwise I feel out of my element. The more I relinqish pet sitting territory for human pre-med efforts, the more wrong I feel about this whole thing. Animals are pretty much my link to humanity, and a strong one considering my reputation in this area as a pet sitter. I just keep thinking I should be pursuing pre-vet activities, not pre-med (my interest in medical science is what draws me away from my current line of work, but pulling myself away from animal work in this process I fear is not worth it). Case in point, most of my volunteer efforts thus far have been with animals.

So here goes. My first degree over a decade ago in business yielded a whopping 2.5 GPA. I am now getting straight A's as I pursue a 2nd degree in Math/Stats with all the more interesting medical pre-reqs (clearly I am in school to learn something this time around). I expect a high score on the MCAT (or VCAT now?), not without serious effort, of course. However, even with straight A's, the best overall I can hope for (next to 3.9ish science GPA) is a 3.2, maybe 3.4 if I add a minor and take 5 years. I've been told the reinvention aspect of my story would be recognized by med school adcoms as reason to give my app a look. Could the same be said for veterinary school admissions, or is it really that much more competitive than med school?

As kcoughli mentioned, it is important to do some work with a vet before you make this decision. Pet sitting and veterinary work are two very different environments and the typical general practice vet spends a lot of time with people too. With the vet economy being so bad right now (and for the forseeable future) I think it's worth a good hard look at your motivation to switch over. You can always continue volunteer work with animals as a physician to keep yourself sane.

If you do decide to make the switch, the reinvention angle is still valid. However, many applicants have well into the thousands of hours of veterinary experience (pet sitting would count as animal experience, which is "worth" less on an application than working directly with a vet) and with a lower than average GPA, you will definitely need to have some solid hours backing your decision.

As for the standardized testing, the VCAT isn't around anymore and not many schools will look at your MCAT. The good news is, the GRE is a lot less rigorous of an exam than the MCAT!