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Discussion in 'Pre-Dental' started by alexvitzthum, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. alexvitzthum

    alexvitzthum

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    Hello everyone,

    I am currently a Junior at the University of Iowa. I plan on applying for Fall of 2013 and am somewhat freaking out about whether I will get in anywhere. I have a 3.47 Science GPA and a 3.5 Cumulative GPA. I took a non-traditional path by pursuing an undergraduate degree in Business Management. With taking the business track, I'm a bit worried admissions may think I haven't taken enough science classes. I'd love to get into Iowa so I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice or if there is any chance. My DAT scores are below.Thanks

    Biology 19 | PAT 18
    General Chemistry 20 | Quantitative Reasoning 19
    Organic Chemistry 21 | Reading Comprehension 20

    Total Science 20 | Academic Average 20
  2. DavesNotHere

    DavesNotHere

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    As long as you have the pre reqs I would see a business management degree as a good thing...practice management is one of the most important things in private practice that a lot of dents miss
  3. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    You have great stats apply broadly to 20+ schools to maximize chances, but you'll definitely get into at least one school.
  4. JdogDMD

    JdogDMD

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    You'll be fine.
  5. omnipoDent

    omnipoDent

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    :thumbup:
  6. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    Just apply broadly dont forget that
  7. alexvitzthum

    alexvitzthum

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    It just sucks because I pay for all of my own undergraduate and all of the application fees, when you say apply broadly do you think 5 or 6 schools is enough?
  8. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    You have awesome stats but I wouldnt risk less than 10 to 15 schools because you never know whos going to accept you. And if you dont get in you'll have to spend more $$$ to reapply. 10 to 15 minimum and 20 to be ultra safe.
  9. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic

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    I got two acceptances this year with a Business degree and just the pre-reqs. My cum GPA was better but you have the edge in science GPA. We have similar DAT scores two. You should be good to go buddy :thumbup:

    Make sure you apply to some safety schools though. Some schools like business degrees more than others. Nova, for instance, likes their students to have a lot of science pre-reqs so you probably would get rejected there based on that alone. All in all, if you apply to about 15 schools you should easily get at least 5 interviews and 3 acceptances. Just apply early!!!
  10. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic

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    Its going to cost a lot of money. I think I spent close to $7,000 this cycle applying to 18 schools. That includes primary applications, secondary applications, flying to interviews, hotels, rental cars, deposits, postage, etc, etc.

    I think you could at the very least get away with applying to 10 schools. Just make sure you go to your Pre-Health Advisement Office or whatever and look at the book the AADSAS makes each year. It tells you how many students each school accepts, where they accepted their students from, average GPA's and DAT's, etc. If you have 5 "safety schools" you should be fine.
  11. alexvitzthum

    alexvitzthum

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    With statistics like mine, does anyone have recommendations of schools to apply to?
  12. omnipoDent

    omnipoDent

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    Doc Toothache has made some really good charts that show the average DAT and gpa for different dental schools. I would look back and find those. I would suggest picking 15 to 20: 5 where your stats are slightly, 5-10 where your stats are right on their numbers, 5-10 where your stats are above their numbers. It's all a numbers game, but I'd use the averages to get idea at what schools you might be a competitive applicant. Best of luck.
  13. wired202808

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    Where in the states are you? To guarantee acceptances include private schools such as NYU, Case, MWU-IL, MWU-AZ, Tufts, etc. Those are usually good backups to have but they're often very expensive to attend.
  14. omnipoDent

    omnipoDent

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    Backups?:laugh: Sorry, applying to all of those schools does not guarantee acceptances. Tufts interviews less than 10 percent of their 4,600 applicants, and will accept around 70% of those. You have a good chance if you get an interview, but it's not even close to a guarantee you will get one. Case, MWU-AZ, and NYU are also far from sure interviews, much less guaranteed acceptances, with the stats this individual has.
  15. hopeful57

    hopeful57

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    Wired202808, perhaps you can give some 'expert' suggestions about how the OP could get accepted to where you're going to go to school. I forget, where is that again?
  16. BU2012

    BU2012

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    Your DAT is great (PAT a tad low for select schools). I think Business Management is an EXCELLENT major for a dental professional and will NOT be frowned upon whatsoever. Just make sure you have the pre-reqs for each school (or will have by matriculation) and you'll be fine.

    I don't agree with people who say to apply to 15+ schools. Apply to the schools you WANT to go to, and then apply to the schools where you have the best chance (if different). I'd say, with your DAT if you do not plan to retake, then apply to 10 initially this cycle.
  17. flyingshocker

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    I wouldn't worry at all. I made it into a Top 10 school and had a 3.45 GPA with an Aerospace Engineering degree (picked up my prereq's afterwards, GPA 3.56 now). I know you're probably already past this point but the biggest thing I can stress to you is to do well in your prereq's. Your DAT scores are almost exactly as mine were with the exception of the PAT. I know you don't want to think about taking the DAT again and I really wouldn't recommend it, BUT if you did I would try raising that PAT score. I had five interviews and in all of them I asked them why they thought an engineer would make a good dentist, their response, diversity. A business degree will definitely stand out against all the life science degrees. Make sure you apply EARLY!!! I didn't think this was crucial but it definitely is. Just keep your nose in the books, shadow a lot this spring and you'll be fine.
  18. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    OP, you're going to have to spend lots of money to apply to schools. Apply to schools you are truly interested in and would be happy with if you are accepted there. Don't apply to schools just because there's a notion that "it's easy to get in" at those places.
  19. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    Last time I checked there's no guarantee to get accepted anywhere. Its perfectly fine to apply to safety schools in order to have choices. Everyone does it and its fine. Schools that I mentioned are good safety choices that most applicants should have on their list to maximize their chances of admission. I really see no point in trying to argue about this one...
  20. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    Wired, you said yourself that these schools are expensive and in a ton of your posts, you repeatedly say how anti-debt you are.

    There are threads on this forum where people apply to NYU, BU, USC, any of the expensive schools as back ups, and that is the only school they are accepted into. Now I don't know how much they thought this out, but they start questioning the huge loans they will have to take out. They become so concerned that they decide to turn down their only offer and apply again the following cycle.

    If the OP is truly interested in those schools and is aware of the tuition and expenses of those schools, then he can apply to them, of course. However, it's pointless to apply to schools you are not interested in for whatever reason. No point in throwing away your application fees

    And in OP's case, I think he has a pretty good shot at his target school, since he has good stats.
  21. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    no the acceptance is guaranteed of course :laugh: like everything else in life.
  22. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    If you truly want to go to dental school and you have other choice then I guess you have to go to NYU, USC, etc. If I had no other choice I would attend USC because I want dentistry bad enough. But that's just me.

    In addition, please dont twist my words around and say i'm totally anti-debt. I don't believe that one should go to a school like Tufts vs. their state school. Because the degree is the same and the other factors are mitigated. But if one had no other choice and really wants to pursue dentistry then one should go to Tufts, obv in the last resort type of world.

    Ps there's nothing pointless in applying to backup schools. You never know if state school X will even call you for an interview. Ask Bereno and other senior members on this site. This application cycle has been a huge lottery ball for all of us. I personally got a few interviews I never expected and I also got some rejections that I was shocked by. If it was as simple as pick school X, interview and then attend, then everyone would do it. The app cycle is very complex and adcoms do "funny" things. Of course you can just pick state schools and apply, but when you dont get in you'll waste a ton more money to reapply.
  23. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    I got waitlisted (practically rejected at this point from my state school) but got accepted at a "back up" that I didn't think I would hear back from. It's my only acceptance and it's an expensive school but I'm sticking with it since I don't want to waste a year and reapply. Now I didn't apply to this school because I thought it was "easier to get into," I applied because the school sounded interesting. However this past summer, I did apply to USC and BU because they looked "easier" in terms of getting an interview at the very least. Later (as in two months after submitting my application) I realized I didn't want to go to these schools.

    If the OP wants to spend the money, he obviously can, even if it's for schools he is not truly interested in. But to apply to schools just because you think they give out interviews and acceptances like Oprah gives free cars to audience members, seems ridiculous.

    But of course, each to his/her own.

    And this is why I can't stop associating you with anti debt :p :
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  24. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    lol dont be a spinster that works at Fox News and take a comment that has nothing to do with this thread and try to "weave it in." ;)

    Its always good to have options, I think it makes sense to apply to easier schools and then make a decision when the time comes. If going to dental school was like buying a car, then yes you should only get what you're interested in. However the reality is that schools ultimately pick you, so its only logical to maximize your chances. Obv if you apply and only get into USC, you have some tough decisions to make, but that's a lot better than getting zero acceptances and wasting another year reapplying.
  25. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    It's just a funny comment that I couldn't resist. However, dental schools and school cost/debt are always going to be linked. True Story.
    PS: Not a spinster, and I hate fox news :)

    OP, I still advise you to think strongly about where you are applying. AADSAS will charge $75 for each school. Then each school will charge you a fee as well. If you apply to schools far away, you'll have to take travel and lodging expenses into account. If I were you, I would make it count. It's why I said it's a good idea to just apply to schools you are truly interested in, and other have said something similar on this thread. For example, if you're in Iowa, USC may not be a good choice if PBL is not appealing to you and you don't want to be far away from home.

    And it's your decision to make as to if...
    a) You just want to get in anywhere (where some schools will require you to take out up to 400 K in loans)

    b) You would like to get into certain schools, even if it means having to reapply.... You might have to apply more than once but at least you'll be where you want to be and not bitterly taking out 400 K in loans if you didn't want to be at that school in the first place.

    Good luck.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  26. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    Application fees = pennies in the grand scheme of 300K to 400K worth of an education. There's no guarantee that school X will even invite you for an interview so travel and lodging isnt an issue. Additionally you can always turn down interviews, I turned down about 5 interviews after I decided where I wanted to attend.

    OP be aware that the cycle is 50/50 when it comes to luck. You might hear back from some schools you never expected and you might get rejected pre-interview at some of the backups. Keep your mind and pocket open when you apply because it will cost more to reapply and lose a year's worth of education than putting down a few extra schools and spending another $500. I'm only giving this advice because its hard to really determine where you'll get accepted and its best to maximize your odds by applying broadly. The choice is ultimately yours.
  27. omnipoDent

    omnipoDent

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    I didn't want to twist your words, so I thought I was just remind you what you said. I think your sarcasm about guarantees would perhaps have been more appropriate if you had not actually said "to guarantee acceptances.":)
  28. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    yup the acceptances are guaranteed 100% all the time!
  29. omnipoDent

    omnipoDent

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    I want to take a second a thank you for the bolded section above. Appreciate your acknowledging that this is simply your opinion. Obviously, I believe your opinions are not often correct, but I wanted to acknowledge that did.:thumbup:

    When referencing Tufts, and others like NYU, statistically the applicants are often more likely to get into their state school than these places. Obviously, this is not always the case with the top tier public schools like those in California (obviously not the only place, but just what came to mind), but often that’s the reality. So, while the money may be an issue, they will often not be faced with that issue of having to choose because they will not get into the private schools you reference. I think the more accurate references should be made to some of the newer private schools with actual higher acceptances rates than some publics for their in state residents, but I’m sure you were just pulling Tufts out of a hat as a school, in the highlight above, to reference as, “the last resort type of world.”;)

    Also, I’m curious that in one sentence you reference backup schools, which I find a little amusing because they can’t be a backup if they’re harder to get into for in state residents for their state school, but then you go and talk about how the application cycle is a lottery. If you consider the application cycle to be such a lottery, how could you really designate certain schools as “backups”?:rolleyes:

    Lastly, while you may receive the same degree, as in undergrad, I believe some schools with prepare you with the material better than others. While they are cheaper, I believe, from what I have seen, dentists I have spoken with, faculty I spoke with, and students I spoke with, you do not get the same level of preparation at all schools. I understand that we all become dentists. I guess you would then also have to say Harvard undergrad graduates in the same major are as equally prepared from a lower tier state school in the same major. Yes, they both get a college degree, as you say with dentistry, but I’d assume one is more well prepared and has received an education at Harvard that gave them a better understanding of and preparation to use the material. If not, then you really should contact all of those crazy ranking people and the people that paid more to go to Ivy League or other top schools.:scared: They’ve all been duped.:laugh: If you’re a South Carolina resident, why pay that money to be an electrical engineering major at MIT when you could just attend South Carolina State and get the same “degree” in the same major? Anyway, I feel that’s enough sarcasm for one paragraph.:smuggrin:

    While the state schools being cheaper needs to be a factor, I believe with some you’re simply getting what you paid for. It’s a case by case thing, though. Once you hit a certain amount the difference is offset, but in the closer amount it is not because of, I believe, the superior preparation you will get at private schools like Tufts, Penn, NYU, etc… over many publics.
  30. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    oh really... oh wow ok. Well to be honest I decided not to read all of that. :thumbup:
  31. omnipoDent

    omnipoDent

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    It's simply another viewpoint and opinion. As such, I wasn't expecting you would read it.:)
  32. zgoettsc

    zgoettsc

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    First off, hello fellow hawkeye! I too am a junior here at Iowa but will be attending the college of dentistry this fall.

    As for the business major, I agree with what others have said, I think it is not a negative. Business is a very important part of running and managing a dental practice. Try to play that part of your background up as much as possible in your personal statement. I am a science major and have a lower science GPA, so I think you you are good in that regard. Your DAT is good enough to get you into Iowa. I believe their class average is a 19. My advice would be to own the rest of your classes, apply early, and probably apply broadly. You will have to decide which is more important to you: going to dental school next year, or going to the University of Iowa's dental school next year. I chose the second of the two options and only applied to Iowa. It ended up working out, but it was extremely stressful and waiting to hear back was hard because it was my only chance. I would definetly apply to more than one school if I had to do it again!

    Goodluck with everything! Go hawks
  33. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    :thumbup: Go big or go home! I like that attitude and I'm glad it worked out for you! You're a big gambler in my book and you've got more guts than most people!
  34. omnipoDent

    omnipoDent

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    I wouldn't exactly suggest the applicant take the same approach and apply to only Iowa, even though it's a great school. Congratulations on your gamble paying off, though. I'm glad it worked out, but I do think OP may want to mix in some other schools to be safe.
  35. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    So not only did you get into the only dental school you applied to.... you got accepted w/out a bachelors degree? That's pretty amazing :thumbup:

    I'm glad it worked out for you, but I agree that it's important to apply to more than one school (if the person can)... but to schools that actually interest the applicant at hand.
  36. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    And to apply broadly... just incase... since you never know ;)
  37. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    Applying broadly and applying to schools you are interested in are not exclusive ;)
  38. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    :) i like our respect for each other. It works! seriously!
  39. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    Ha... I might see what you mean?
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  40. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    Wired, what school are you going to this fall? Just curious. Not being snarky or anything.
  41. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    lol are you scared we'll wind up being best friends in d-school?
  42. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    :laugh:
    With the quirks in my life, I almost wouldn't be surprised... Because you don't like pricey schools, I figured you're going somewhere in state. If that's the case, I doubt we'll run into each other.
  43. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    maybe or maybe not... you never really know.
  44. Seamonkey Doc

    Seamonkey Doc

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    :shifty: .... lol j/k... or maybe not...:eyebrow:
  45. wired202808

    wired202808 Removed

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    my lips are sealed about my decision to attend school X :)
  46. Bereno

    Bereno Smoking Monkey

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    Ooohhh, the mystery continues! lol :D

    OP: apply broadly, but apply deliberately. Don't waste your money at a place you don't have a shot at. :thumbup:
  47. HeyEjo

    HeyEjo Abandoned

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    it's nyu isn't it
  48. hopeful57

    hopeful57

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    I'm assuming it's Meharry. I realize it's private, which you seem to dislike, but in this process you sometimes just have to go where you can get into.:thumbup:
  49. wired202808

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    I'm not a URM... but then again it doesnt matter. A Meharry grad will be a dentist just like a "super duper smart" Tufts grad.
  50. hopeful57

    hopeful57

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    Ah, yes, School X. I've heard good things. I did some research and found the Dean.

    View attachment X-Pac_2.jpg

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