What are the 'best' Anesthesia Programs?

[Aptiva]

I am a 3rd year interested in Anesthesia. I am a med student at a top 5 med school and have >230 on the Step 1. I was told I was very competive but I want to know what the "best" programs are. If someone could give me 20 programs that are the top 10 and would ensure good fellowship/job placement. I might want to do academics so I want to go to a good named place. I prefer to stay on the east coast.

Thanks and good luck to all.

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[Tenesma]

20 programs that are in the top 10??? you sure you scored 230?
hmmmm

 

[p-bo]

That is a nice way to toot your own horn! You should not have a problem at places like BW, MG, JH, or anywhere for that matter. Why dont you go into derm with your stellar attributes. AS the match nears, I find myself stressed.... not because of where I'll be, but because of who will be in my class. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of nice folks on this site, but most have a chip on their shoulder that there mamma forgot to knock off.

 

[soon2bdoc2003]

I think westchester is the best.. you should apply there and only there. You also forgot to mention how large your penis is.

 

[NaeBlis]

Penis size is very important at the top programs. At Westchester they will take measurements on the day of the interview, length and girth. A few people got sent home before they interviewed.

 

[Aptiva]

Why are you guys being jerks. I'm more interested in Anesthesia and the Critical Care Medicine - that is why I want to apply for it. I'm not trying to toot my horn, but I didn't expect everyone to be so resentful.

 

[tofurious]

I imagine others are resentful because of your demanding tone and running off stats that are rather impressive. I am however surprised that your anesthesiology chair hasn't approached you already to tell you the 10 best programs if you are indeed that stellar.

 

[Aptiva]

Um, I think more resentful than me being demanding... I only shared my stats because I have no idea what kinds of stats are needed for top programs.

I think what is more revolting is that I was suggested to pursue Derm as a career when I have no interest in it at all. I guess a lot of people are using Anesthesia as a backup career, but I am not.

i was very careful with what words to use - in fact I wished everyone good luck.

the PD wants me to stay where I am, which is why I want objective advice.

Anyways I'll look elsewhere for advice.

Later all.

P.S. the only people with a chip on the shoulder are you all. You can't handle being around someone that has better stats then you better get out of the kitchen. There are 2 other people from my school who will go for Anesthesia and one has >250. There are always going to be people who work twice as hard so get used to it. I did as I am not a top student at my school.

 

[ICUDOC]

What a bunch of f*&?ng tools you all are. To the original question...Yes, >230 is good, certainly not great as it's about 1.5 SD above the mean still almost 15% of the nation does better than you. I think with increasing numbers it will still be competitive for you to get into a top 5 program, unlike it was just a few years ago. I'm not anesthesia trained, but Do lots of critical care stuff. He's my 2 cents, in noparticular order


Hopkins, UCSF, Columbia, MGH, BW, Penn


goodluck..............

 

[gasguy]

Aptiva,
Here is a previous post from a year ago that may give you an idea regarding the so-called "best anesthesia programs":

"Academic anesthesiologists I have spoken to generally seem to stratify the outstanding programs into 3 tiers...

1) Best of the best: JHU, MGH, UCSF

2) Considered to be Elite programs: Alabama, Brigham, Columbia, Duke, Mayo, Michigan, Penn, Stanford, Wake Forest, U. Washington

3) Other excellent academic programs: Beth Israel, Cornell, Dartmouth, MC Wisconsin, Mt. Sinai, Northwestern, Penn State, UC Irvine, UCLA, UCSD, U. Chicago, U. Colorado, U. Florida, U. Iowa, UNC Chapel Hill, U. Pittsburgh, U. Rochester, U. Texas Galveston, Utah, UVA, Vanderbilt, Wash U, Yale

I think trying to rank the excellent programs from 1-50 is fruitless. If you apply yourself at any of the above programs, you will have great fellowship and job opportunities."

People obviously have their opinions and may disagree with this stratification, but I think that it is pretty good.

Your board scores are probably high enough to get your application automatically considered everywhere, but scores alone certainly won't guarantee you a spot anywhere. As I am sure you know, matching depends on the entire package...USMLE scores, clerkship evaluations, GPA, and personal characteristics.

Hope this helps.

To everyone in the match: good luck next week.

Gasguy

 

[FZISHN]

Aptiva-
I agree with the residency programs ICUDOC listed, and I would like to add UPitt. They have a strong academic and critical care program.

I also understand about your PD. Sometimes a PD does not know much about other programs or has the ulterior motive of keeping you at your home institution.

Also, I am not sure if English is your first language since you make numerous errors in your posts. Maybe this is part of the miscommunication on this board. No one is jealous of your stats. And I hope you have more than just these stats if you are seriously considering top 10 programs.

Everyone is nervous about the Match since anesthesiology gets more competitive every year. Maybe after the Match results are out on Thursday you will get more feedback. Bear in mind that the Match will most likely be more competitive for you than it is for us.

 

[Aptiva]

Thanks for your help all...

English is my first language and making of fun of typos is pretty funny man. Good way to sneak in a cheap shot. Good luck to all.

 

[Lonestar]

Aptiva,

There is no doubt in my mind that next years anesthesia match will be more competitive. As more med studs find out about the perks of being an anesthesiologist, they can't help but become attracted to the field. It's sad but maybe in a couple of years it may become the next Radiology in terms of competitiveness.

By the way, there are 5 people interested in my class and if you averaged their board scores, it would be in the high 220s. For my school, the board scores keep going up every year for anesthesiology applicants. If you must know, I have a 234 and I don't consider myself special. Afterall, its just a test. But, hey, if it gets me to where i want to go, so be it. Peace

 

[jester]

Aptiva,
don't worry about it, most of the people that blasted you are probably weak and jealous about your board scores. I understand why you put your stats down and I was not offended at all. I agree with the above posts regarding "top programs" in my opinion:
1) Hopkins
2) UCSF
3) MGH
4) BWH
5) Columbia
6) Stanford
7) Mayo
8) Penn
9) U Washington
10) Duke

 

[beezar]

Originally posted by Aptiva
I am a 3rd year interested in Anesthesia. I am a med student at a top 5 med school and have >230 on the Step 1. I was told I was very competive but I want to know what the "best" programs are. If someone could give me 20 programs that are the top 10 and would ensure good fellowship/job placement. I might want to do academics so I want to go to a good named place. I prefer to stay on the east coast.

Thanks and good luck to all.

Aptiva, don't take other people's comments personally, but you have to see why they might be offended. You could have easily just asked "what are the top 10 programs for academics" without posting your stats and left it at that.

Unfortunately, there are just too many arrogant a$$holes in med school who try to show off and who try to prove that they are better than everyone else... childish... and this makes people sensitive to comments about higher stats. You don't seem like that type of person, but you can see why people may be sensitive to your comments.

With your excellent Step I score, you should probably get interviews from most if not all the places you apply. Now all you gotta do is get good letters of rec (start planning now... ask who writes good letters and try to get a rotation with them) and practice interview techniques and mock interviews (I think that this is highly underrated... interview skills can be improved tremendously with practice). Good luck!

 

[Jubal]

I agree with gasguy's stratification with one ammendment: Columbia IS NOT in the ELITE Anesthesia residency programs(and never was!). I woudl push Columbia down to 3rd category.
If you want to know mroe about residency programs, go to http://www.grogono.com/nrmp/index.html
I have psoted this link several times. It is amazing how people do NOT read replies on message boards but ratehr come up with the same topic every 2 months.

There is now absolute way to rank the top 20, however Grogono givesa few criteria that he looked at over almost 10 years now: number recruited via match into the program, and number of students from that medical school that are accepted into anesthesiology residencies. A thisrd criteria would be the NIH funding. Other criteria are welcome to and these are not absolute criteria, since they tend to favor "big number" departmenta which does not mean that being a smaller depart. -approx 10 residents a year- does not make you competitive. Anotehr thing to consider and that validates teh above criteria, is that huge departmetns with 20+ residents like U Miami and SUNY Brooklyn, are nowhere inthe list because they are unable/unwilling to fill their spots via the match.

Here are the tables:
Medical Schools\ Anes\ Grads
Indiana University 31 257
Univ Texas - San Antonio 29 179
Univ Texas SW - Dallas 22 187
Medical College of Wisconsin 20 176
Univ Texas Houston 16 194
Loma Linda University 15 145
MCP Hahnemann University 15 199
University of Washington 15 169
University of Alabama 14 148
Wayne State University 14 222
Creighton University 14 89
University of Cincinnati 14 149
University of Iowa 13 155
Univ of Illinois Chicago 13 149
SUNY Downstate 13 184
Univ of Tennessee Memphis 13 147
Univ of Kansas -Kansas City 12 111
Ohio State University 12 190
Univ Minnesota - Twin Cities 11 192
SUNY Upstate Medical Univ 11 145
University at Buffalo 11 131
Northeastern Ohio Universities 11 97
Temple University 11 148
Texas Tech Univ - Lubbock 11 107
N = 24 361 3870

Residencies/ Matched/ Available
UC San Francisco-CA 22 22
Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD 22 22
Indiana Univ Sch Of Med 20 20
NYP Hosp-Colum Presby-NY 20 20
U Texas Med Sch-Houston 20 20
UCLA Medical Center-CA 18 18
Massachusetts Gen Hosp 18 18
NYP Hosp-NY Cornell-NY 18 18
Med Coll Wisconsin Aff Hosps 18 18
Stanford Univ Progs-CA 17 17
Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT 16 16
U Florida Prog-Shands Hosp 16 16
Emory Univ SOM-GA 16 16
McGaw Med Ctr-NW Univ-IL 16 16
Mayo Grad SOM-MN 16 16
U Alabama Hosp-Birmingham 15 15
Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA 15 15
Mt Sinai Hospital-NY 15 15
Thomas Jefferson Univ-PA 15 15
U TX SW Med Sch-Dallas 15 15
University of Virginia 15 15
N = 21 363 363


For teh NIH ranking go here: http://www.residentphysician.com/Anesthesiology_rankings.htm
or to the NIH site directly if you are misttrustful.

Anyone can clearly see that most of teh names overlap.
Geography and otehr personal criteria coem into play then.
Etcetera...

 

[lattimer13]

Originally posted by soon2bdoc2003
I think westchester is the best.. you should apply there and only there. You also forgot to mention how large your penis is.

i'm laughing my ass off right now!

 

[euhsa]

Originally posted by soon2bdoc2003
I think westchester is the best.. you should apply there and only there. You also forgot to mention how large your penis is.

Why are you so down on Westchester? Hey, I have no shame on stating that I ranked the program #2 (above 7 other programs)on my ROL and matched into the program. Although the program did have its problems in the past (when anesthesiology was very weak), I am very confident that it will improve and I will get a solid background after three years. In addition, with the wide variety of pathology, I am also sure that I will not have problems getting a job at the time as well.

BTW, dude, you are the only person who ripped this program on this post.

 

[Dawkter]

Old thread but would like to know some thoughts on this topic.

 

[Surfer]

Old thread but would like to know some thoughts on this topic.

penis size is still very important.

 

[amyl]

For private practice anesthesia my program is the best... Ccf. Care to disagree? I got about a half million reasons I'm right ;-)

 

[Gern Blansten]

For private practice anesthesia my program is the best... Ccf. Care to disagree? I got about a half million reasons I'm right ;-)

President Obama would like to talk to you about 40% of those reasons.

 

[Mman]

For private practice anesthesia my program is the best... Ccf. Care to disagree? I got about a half million reasons I'm right ;-)

really? that's not much to brag about in private practice land and certainly not an argument for the best.

 

[proman]

President Obama would like to talk to you about 40% of those reasons.

He'd really prefer discussing 60% of them.

 

[Cardio2b]

IMHO, you can get good training many places. You also need to consider how/what that reputation is built on. (ex: research versus more PP oriented etc.) What YOUR "best" may not be universally agreed upon.

I'd look at resident happiness, case load/volume, case acuity, and hopefully there are no glaring deficits. Otherwise, just go where you think you'll be happy. That's basically how I chose and I'm happy now. Hopefully, I'll be happy in the future when it's time to get a job....

 

[imfrankie]

For private practice anesthesia my program is the best... Ccf. Care to disagree? I got about a half million reasons I'm right ;-)

There is no "best program."
P.S. It's not how much you make, it's how much you make per hour.

 

[kazuma]

There is no "best program."
P.S. It's not how much you make, it's how much you make per hour.

Dang, should have done psych. They seem to do pretty well on an hourly basis.

 

[Cardio2b]

really? that's not much to brag about in private practice land and certainly not an argument for the best.

Yeah, but she's just starting out if I recall correctly..... I'd say that's not too shabby.

 

[lane]

The best program is where you will be happy. That means happy with the location, the surrounding area, proximity to friends and family, the people you work with 50+ hours per week, the lecture schedule and style, the caseload and distribution, and any other factors that are truly important to you and your future career goals.

Every program is different. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Prestige may or not be a driving factor for you and your career goals. There are plenty of folks from programs around the country who are willing to share their insight, which is much more valuable than an arbitrary list.

 

[Cardio2b]

The best program is where you will be happy. That means happy with the location, the surrounding area, proximity to friends and family, the people you work with 50+ hours per week, the lecture schedule and style, the caseload and distribution, and any other factors that are truly important to you and your future career goals.

Every program is different. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Prestige may or not be a driving factor for you and your career goals. There are plenty of folks from programs around the country who are willing to share their insight, which is much more valuable than an arbitrary list.

I agree 100%. I think too many people that DON'T intend on going into academics still place too high a priority on name recognition.

 

[W222]

For private practice anesthesia my program is the best... Ccf. Care to disagree? I got about a half million reasons I'm right ;-)

I am calling bull**** on this. No practice in the continental US is offering this to recent grads and if they promised you this best of luck working the 80+ hours you will be expected to work for the two years they dangle partnership in front of you, only to can you at the end.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I am calling bull**** on this. No practice in the continental US is offering this to recent grads and if they promised you this best of luck working the 80+ hours you will be expected to work for the two years they dangle partnership in front of you, only to can you at the end.

500K the first 2 years, even if it doesn't result in partnership, is damn good bling. Take that money and the skills you learn/hone in on and go elsewhere after the 2 years.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Dang, should have done psych. They seem to do pretty well on an hourly basis.

or PM$R

 

[W222]

500K the first 2 years, even if it doesn't result in partnership, is damn good bling. Take that money and the skills you learn/hone in on and go elsewhere after the 2 years.

What I am saying is that these jobs don't exist. They are fantasy and merely bait to get you into the practice, once there you get screwed.

 

[Stank811]

Any program can get you offers similar to Amyls...I now several residents that have graduated from the program that I attend that have gotten similar and better offers...W222 they are definitely out there....like it has been repeated on here many times, do not use recruiters or gas works. Amyl congrats on the job

 

[amyl]

I am calling bull**** on this. No practice in the continental US is offering this to recent grads and if they promised you this best of luck working the 80+ hours you will be expected to work for the two years they dangle partnership in front of you, only to can you at the end.

Several of the positions I considered were 500 plus w benefits. Many required significant case numbers in cardiac and regional. I do not think I would have been interviewed.if I was from a lesser program. I am very thankful for my education and thus am promoting my residency program

 

[lane]

It's all about location. If you're willing to get away from the big city it's easy to get $$$ with a nice signing bonus. One of our graduates last year got $500k+ with a $50k signing bonus outside a midsize town in Ohio. Those willing to go to a bigger city can find good jobs, albeit with less bling.

In the end you get out of your training what you put into it, no matter where you are.

 

[Mman]

Several of the positions I considered were 500 plus w benefits. Many required significant case numbers in cardiac and regional. I do not think I would have been interviewed.if I was from a lesser program. I am very thankful for my education and thus am promoting my residency program

it's great to be proud of your residency. However, I'd imagine that in most states outside Ohio it isn't the #1 choice for people offering the jobs. If you are looking for a job in Massachusetts, Brigham and MGH are the be all and end all. If you are looking in San Fran, UCSF and Stanford are your keys to getting in the door.

Getting a job in private practice is usually about connections and it's hard to top local connections. CCF is a big name in medicine. Their reputation within the realm of academic anesthesia programs nationwide is a little bit less.

 

[Surfer]

Several of the positions I considered were 500 plus w benefits. Many required significant case numbers in cardiac and regional. I do not think I would have been interviewed.if I was from a lesser program. I am very thankful for my education and thus am promoting my residency program

I'm sure you believe this... however the real terms of the deal will not be realized until you are well into your new gig.

 

[Surfer]

The thing is, groups don't talk $$ until you are in. Before that it's all just very vague financial terms. The reason for this is financial information of medical groups is very highly classified information for obvious reasons.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Any program can get you offers similar to Amyls...I now several residents that have graduated from the program that I attend that have gotten similar and better offers...W222 they are definitely out there....like it has been repeated on here many times, do not use recruiters or gas works. Amyl congrats on the job

Seconded. I'm really glad it worked out well for you amyl!

 

[El Dooderino]

Old thread but would like to know some thoughts on this topic.

I posted this in the other thread but at least from an academic sense and national reputation-wise people seemed to group MGH, BWH, UCSF, Hopkins, and Stanford into a group at the top. Of course some people have different opinions and this might vary by region

 

[W222]

Amyl If you really got a gig like this bravo and I wish you the best of luck.


But a message to others, there are only a few ways you can make that much starting out: You are joining a group that is CRNA heavy and covering 1:4 or more (risking your license and patient lives), you are heading to Alaska(know two who have done this), or your are being lied to with regards to what you will actually end up with at the end of the year. Several people warned me about jobs like this because the group brings you in with all these magical promises and a complex "bonus system". At the end of the day you may be signing charts for cases you were never really involved in, you work 80+ hour weeks, and when it comes time to pick up that bonus check the partners or hospital exec gives you the "well, the way we calculated your bonus you only brought in x so we are going to give you Y. Better luck next year." One I know of recently left a private gig after being strung along for two years after he was supposed to make partner; every year he came up for partner it was "oh, there are no spots this year."

As for CCF, I think this is one of the most under-rated residencies out there. The hospital is amazing and residents/fellows I have met are top notch, the place gets a bad rap because its in Cleveland.

 

[Mman]

But a message to others, there are only a few ways you can make that much starting out: You are joining a group that is CRNA heavy and covering 1:4 or more (risking your license and patient lives),

I assume you aren't implying that people in an ACT model supervising CRNAs are risking patient lives and their medical license. It's a model that is proven to be safe and effective and endorsed by the ASA and is the most common model for anesthesia delivery in the US.

 

[IN2B8R]

I assume you aren't implying that people in an ACT model supervising CRNAs are risking patient lives and their medical license. It's a model that is proven to be safe and effective and endorsed by the ASA and is the most common model for anesthesia delivery in the US.

The real question is the following: if you, or if, God forbid, your neonate kid/sick grandmother, were undergoing a major surgical procedure, which model do you consider to be "safest"? I think we all know the answer. There is nothing "proven" in the ACT model. I chose to reply to your response becasue you specifically chose the word "proven." Lets face it, when the **** hits the fan (and this can happen even with healthy patients), the "proven" safety--and this is my strong opinion-- is in having a well trained anesthesiologist who will get things immediately diagnosed and under control. This, unfortunately and as you well know, cannot be at all possible when you are supervising. So, in pure essence, you are risking patients lives and your license when you are supervising. You are simply placing your hopes on having a complication that you can tend to fast enough, such that the patient will eventually survive because of your delayed intervention. Simply put, it is easiest to put out a fire once you are close to it and before it becomes a huge, engulfing flame.... The ASA supports this "most common" model because they have no choice: there are not enough anesthesiologists to care for all americans and the lobby of the CRNAs is like a cancer that keeps recurring. These words, by the way, are coming from a guy who both supervized and worked solo. But I personally like hearing these words from a former CRNA turned MD: "I didn't know what I didn't know and that was the problem..".

 

[Harrison486]

I think too many people that DON'T intend on going into academics still place too high a priority on name recognition.

How much does the name factor really come into play when looking for jobs or applying for fellowship? Obviously there are differences between a candidate coming from a school considered to be in the top tier and a school at the bottom of the barrel, but what about situations where its not so drastic? Is taking a step off of the "top tier" level really sacrificing potential future options?

I have talked to some residents from top programs who didn't seem to be the happiest, but claimed it was worth it for the training and the name. At the same time, I've talked to residents from programs outside of the top tier (but still good schools) who seemed very happy with residency and claimed they would still be able to get jobs/fellowships where they wanted.

I'm just confused as to the magnitude of the name factor and if it is the end-all, be-all when considering ranking or if it really is not a huge thing.

 

[ProRealDoc]

Amyl If you really got a gig like this bravo and I wish you the best of luck.


But a message to others, there are only a few ways you can make that much starting out: You are joining a group that is CRNA heavy and covering 1:4 or more (risking your license and patient lives), you are heading to Alaska(know two who have done this), or your are being lied to with regards to what you will actually end up with at the end of the year. Several people warned me about jobs like this because the group brings you in with all these magical promises and a complex "bonus system". At the end of the day you may be signing charts for cases you were never really involved in, you work 80+ hour weeks, and when it comes time to pick up that bonus check the partners or hospital exec gives you the "well, the way we calculated your bonus you only brought in x so we are going to give you Y. Better luck next year." One I know of recently left a private gig after being strung along for two years after he was supposed to make partner; every year he came up for partner it was "oh, there are no spots this year."

As for CCF, I think this is one of the most under-rated residencies out there. The hospital is amazing and residents/fellows I have met are top notch, the place gets a bad rap because its in Cleveland.

http://s1.cpl.delvenetworks.com/med...tucketevent_102011-quicktime-h-264--delve.mp4

It's a good place to train despite the naysayers. Towards the end of the video when OR 67 door is opening you can see me in blue scrubs.

 

[Bertelman]

It's all about location. If you're willing to get away from the big city it's easy to get $$$ with a nice signing bonus. One of our graduates last year got $500k+ with a $50k signing bonus outside a midsize town in Ohio. Those willing to go to a bigger city can find good jobs, albeit with less bling.

In the end you get out of your training what you put into it, no matter where you are.

But wait- YOU didn't go to CCF, did you Lane? How could that be? Is there someone else other than amyl scoring 500k a year?

 

[lane]

But wait- YOU didn't go to CCF, did you Lane? How could that be? Is there someone else other than amyl scoring 500k a year?

I think he did an away rotation at CCF as a med student...

 

[OB1🤙]

"In America, there is New York, San Francisco, and New Orleans. Everywhere else is Cleveland."

-Mark Twain