What can my girlfriend do to better her chances of medical school acceptance and consider DOs?

[Sgucci]

I'm accepted to medical school and she's seen a lot through my experiences like applying to DO schools is a must (that's why I didn't get in my first cycle), and how competitive this process can be. However, she gets incredibly discouraged when I try to advise her, so I would really appreciate your advice.

Her app:
She is a quarter away from graduation and her grades are:
3.3 cGPA
3.1 SciGPA

She hasn't taken the mcat yet, and with my help I'm pretty sure she'll do well, particularly in the social sciences.
She has a diverse set of letters of recommendation from professors in sciences, non-sciences, her employer, doctors she volunteered with, and others.

She's done shadowing and medical volunteering across 5 disciplines with over 200 hrs in each. She's done extensive research in endocrinology, has done work on grant proposals, is a tutor, has worked management in retail for several years.
She also speaks several languages: Spanish, Hindi, Bengali, and Farsi.
Her race is: Indian (Asian), Hispanic, and Native American.


Issues:
She doesn't have the monetary means to do expensive post-baccs, and SMPs because her loan payments start very soon and she has a very difficult socioeconomic background (she had to work during her entire undergrad to support her family). her dad is disabled from a serious stroke, and the only other person to support her family is her mom. Are there any possibilities of her finding a cheap and affordable SMP/post-bacc? I brought up the idea of her taking summer classes at my university but they're very expensive for her and the loan-payments are really screwing her over. What would you recommend?


Furthermore, she is very hung up on the DO vs. MD divide. This even after she saw how not considering DOs seriously screwed me over the first cycle. She doesn't want to go DO because they're a "harder pathway" and she thinks she can get into a MD because I managed to. Really though I could have easily never gotten into a MD, and would have had no reservation with going DO. She wants to be an endocrinologist (I see no reason why she'd have any issue pursuing that as a DO), and thinks that because she never sees DOs at kaiser that DOs are discriminated against. Obviously this is seriously inaccurate, but I would greatly appreciate help from here showing otherwise. She's just so hung up on it and won't listen to reason.


Also, what are her chances of actually getting into a MD with a gpa like that even if she has a high mcat? I think they aren't very high, but what if she kills the mcat? What else could be done given her circumstances?

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[LizzyM]

Show her AMCAS table A-24 (used to be Table 25). Show her the Hispanic table for "best case scenario" and Asian table for "worst case". This will help her see what she needs to scores on the MCAT (converting to new score from old) to have a fighting chance given the relatively poor GPA she has. Overall, Hispanic applicants with GPA between 3.2 and 3.39 have <32% chance of being admitted to even one MD school and that would include the Puerto Rican schools. Among Asian applicants, <20% of applicants with GPA between 3.2 and 3.39 are admitted somewhere. With an exceptional MCAT she can push the chances to greater than 50-50 but she has to position herself to be in the top 5% of test takers. That may be difficult for someone who has not performed exceptionally well as an undergrad.

Right now, if she is a Spanish speaking, URM Hispanic she has a good chance but she needs to do exceptionally well on the MCAT. This is far cheaper and less time consuming than a SMP or anything else. If she isn't able to do very well on the MCAT, then she'll know where she stands and perhaps MD or even DO should not be on the table. Help her with the MCAT and see where things shake out.

 

[Sgucci]

Show her AMCAS table A-24 (used to be Table 25). Show her the Hispanic table for "best case scenario" and Asian table for "worst case". This will help her see what she needs to scores on the MCAT (converting to new score from old) to have a fighting chance given the relatively poor GPA she has. Overall, Hispanic applicants with GPA between 3.2 and 3.39 have <32% chance of being admitted to even one MD school and that would include the Puerto Rican schools. Among Asian applicants, <20% of applicants with GPA between 3.2 and 3.39 are admitted somewhere. With an exceptional MCAT she can push the chances to greater than 50-50 but she has to position herself to be in the top 5% of test takers. That may be difficult for someone who has not performed exceptionally well as an undergrad.

Right now, if she is a Spanish speaking, URM Hispanic she has a good chance but she needs to do exceptionally well on the MCAT. This is far cheaper and less time consuming than a SMP or anything else. If she isn't able to do very well on the MCAT, then she'll know where she stands and perhaps MD or even DO should not be on the table. Help her with the MCAT and see where things shake out.

Thank you so much for the advising. She's a very smart student who didn't really try during her first two years and had a lot of **** going on (I was absolutely shocked she did less than an A in some of the premed courses). Like she had to drop out to support her family. What could she do that wouldn't be seriously expensive for her to better her gpa? Her financial situation is really the limiting reagent.

 

[Megarooski]

IF you could convince her to go DO, that grade replacement would help her significantly from what it sounds like. If she's done well in the upper-levels, she could pretty easily raise her GPA if she re-took any C's or lower from her first two years.

 

[Sgucci]

@Goro - I'd appreciate your advice and help encouraging her as you know DOs so well.

IF you could convince her to go DO, that grade replacement would help her significantly from what it sounds like. If she's done well in the upper-levels, she could pretty easily raise her GPA if she re-took any C's or lower from her first two years.

I will, maybe she could get take them at CCs and get scholarships to take them. Is that common or possible? She's so anti-DO it's ridiculous for no reason.

 

[Megarooski]

I will, maybe she could get take them at CCs and get scholarships to take them. Is that common or possible? She's so anti-DO it's ridiculous for no reason.

Not sure about the scholarship thing as that is very person and school-based. However, she could re-take them at a CC and be fine I think, especially if she indicates a financial strain in her application that caused her to re-take them at a CC. I could be wrong about that, but it does at least seem reasonable.

As far as trying to convince her to go DO, maybe compile some match lists from various DO schools and show her where their students are matching. I think it's quite possible for her to do endo as a DO.

 

[Sgucci]

Not sure about the scholarship thing as that is very person and school-based. However, she could re-take them at a CC and be fine I think, especially if she indicates a financial strain in her application that caused her to re-take them at a CC. I could be wrong about that, but it does at least seem reasonable.

As far as trying to convince her to go DO, maybe compile some match lists from various DO schools and show her where their students are matching. I think it's quite possible for her to do endo as a DO.

Will do. the DOs particularly the CA ones offer a lot. Like they have matches on par with UCD.

 

[NotWayneBrady]

She's so anti-DO it's ridiculous for no reason.

I see this way too often. I've even seen it from parents of a DO... they told the DO's pre-med younger sister something along the lines of "maybe one day you can be a real doctor."

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

What could she do that wouldn't be seriously expensive for her to better her gpa? Her financial situation is really the limiting reagent.

I can't speak for SMPs because I've never looked into them, but the problem with post-baccs (even the informal, just taking classes somewhere type) is that since you're not pursuing a degree, you're usually not eligible for any federal financial aid. She could choose to take out loans. I understand why that's maybe undesirable but in the grand scheme of med school, it may be worth it. I've seen some talk on here about actually enrolling in a second bachelor's degree as a way to get financial aid, take classes, and then drop out before finishing... I honestly have no idea how that would work so I can't really advocate it but maybe it's an option?

Ultimately, the whole DO thing is something she has to figure out herself and there probably isn't too much you can do to sway her. But if she were open to even just shadowing a DO, she might realize that they are absolutely equivalent to MD's in every way. Maybe google search to see if there are any DO endocrinologists in your area? Unfortunately, it may take a few MD rejections (I sincerely hope it doesn't work out that way and I'm not saying it will!) for her to realize that DO is an option worth considering.

 

[doc05]

what LizzyM said. her grades are very poor, and without an mcat score, it's impossible to gauge her chances.

realistically, she shouldn't consider the SMP, because the expense is significant, and without a stellar mcat score, the issue is moot.

 

[Sgucci]

I see this way too often. I've even seen it from parents of a DO... they told the DO's pre-med younger sister something along the lines of "maybe one day you can be a real doctor."

Yea , even as someone who had this mentality it makes me so mad that people are willing to sell themselves so far short over absolutely nothing of difference. If you want to be a doctor and there's another way you should be willing to do that.

I can't speak for SMPs because I've never looked into them, but the problem with post-baccs (even the informal, just taking classes somewhere type) is that since you're not pursuing a degree, you're usually not eligible for any federal financial aid. She could choose to take out loans. I understand why that's maybe undesirable but in the grand scheme of med school, it may be worth it. I've seen some talk on here about actually enrolling in a second bachelor's degree as a way to get financial aid, take classes, and then drop out before finishing... I honestly have no idea how that would work so I can't really advocate it but maybe it's an option?

Ultimately, the whole DO thing is something she has to figure out herself and there probably isn't too much you can do to sway her. But if she were open to even just shadowing a DO, she might realize that they are absolutely equivalent to MD's in every way. Maybe google search to see if there are any DO endocrinologists in your area? Unfortunately, it may take a few MD rejections (I sincerely hope it doesn't work out that way and I'm not saying it will!) for her to realize that DO is an option worth considering.

I'll try and get her to shadow some DOs, but isn't receptive to this and we're actually in a big argument over this because she just won't listen to anything about this process. I failed the first time i applied because I didn't add DOs, and shes seen everything I've been through, all the lessons I learn, and she's still too hung up on the initials of MD to do what she really wants to do instead of selling herself short.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I'll try and get her to shadow some DOs, but isn't receptive to this and we're actually in a big argument over this because she just won't listen to anything about this process. I failed the first time i applied because I didn't add DOs, and shes seen everything I've been through, all the lessons I learn, and she's still too hung up on the initials of MD to do what she really wants to do instead of selling herself short.

That sucks, I'm sorry. Sometimes all you can do is let the other person figure things out on their own. Be supportive of whatever she decides and hopefully she'll come around.

 

[MoDiddy]

How much would the Native American heritage help? @LizzyM

 

[IlDestriero]

Her anti DO stance will either end her dream or push her to the land of crystal clear water, tanned skin and hurricanes.

 

[NotWayneBrady]

Yea , even as someone who had this mentality it makes me so mad that people are willing to sell themselves so far short over absolutely nothing of difference. If you want to be a doctor and there's another way you should be willing to do that.

This almost sounds like a sales pitch for the Caribbean.

 

[Lawpy]

Her anti DO stance will either end her dream or push her to the land of crystal clear water, tanned skin and hurricanes.

I agree

 

[LizzyM]

How much would the Native American heritage help? @LizzyM

No more than Hispanic, Spanish speaking would. NA is so rare that AAMC doesn't have a separate table for it but there is a "all URM" table that would give a reasonable approximation. Being NA and Hispanic isn't going to be better than one or the other alone.

 

[Sgucci]

That sucks, I'm sorry. Sometimes all you can do is let the other person figure things out on their own. Be supportive of whatever she decides and hopefully she'll come around.

I've been so supportive, but all she does is find excuses and take what i say for granted. I went through hell to get a medical school acceptance, just like a lot of us and she knows that blow by blow, and she throws away anything that might help....sigh

This almost sounds like a sales pitch for the Caribbean.

It might as well be at the rate she's going.

 

[gyngyn]

Relatively few applicants that self identify as NA are actually affiliated with a recognized tribe (mrh).
Many of those who identify as "Hispanic" are not under-represented in medicine.
Language skills are always appreciated, though.

 

[bunchesonothing]

If she doesn't want to be advised, I'd leave it alone.

I understand that you care and want to see her succeed. But...

Once you've tried, she didn't listen and/or resisted, it is on her. She's an adult. She has to make her own decision and she decides what her dreams are. Even if everyone on this website sides with you, what is the point in pushing her the DO route if that isn't going to make her happy? This is about her, right?

I've been married for a bit now and I've learned things that have thus far helped keep peace, happiness and respect flowing despite the fact that my husband and I are soooooooo different from one another.

1) In matters where it is your sig other's decision and it doesn't hurt you either way, let them make it. Show them you respect them. Relinquish a need to push "help" on someone that doesn't want it.
2) Being right all of the time doesn't matter. Focusing on it yields grudge-y relationships.
3) Sometimes the "wrong" thing gets done. Life goes on. Not always as hoped, but it does go on. Things will play out. Sometimes wrong is relative.

 

[Goro]

If she's against going to a DO school, I can't help her.

 

[doc05]

I think we've all spent enough time on this matter. Not everyone needs to become a doctor.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

you should show her the match lists between DO and Carib, as well as the price (taking into account COL).

I used to ignorantly share her same sentiment. It almost cost me dearly...

DO is a no brainer

 

[candbgirl]

Take a step back. Stop trying to convince her of anything and let what happens happen. If she hasn't learned a thing from your experience she's not going to be influenced by anything you say. Let her figure it out.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If she's against going to a DO school, I can't help her.

Why is it that it is always the 3.1 sGPA types who are so hellbent on NOT applying DO? It baffles me, I don't get it. It's like deep down they know that DO is their only chance so they fight so hard against it and bury their heads in the sand.

 

[Sgucci]

Why is it that it is always the 3.1 sGPA types who are so hellbent on NOT applying DO? It baffles me, I don't get it. It's like deep down they know that DO is their only chance so they fight so hard against it and bury their heads in the sand.

Seriously, imo it's a lot to do with pride, but honestly beggars can't be choosers. If I had a 3.1 sGPA and knew there were med schools that'd still accept me I'd be kissing the ground and saying thank you, but I'm not one to take stuff like this for granted.

If she's against going to a DO school, I can't help her.

Wise words, it's all on her.

you should show her the match lists between DO and Carib, as well as the price (taking into account COL).

I used to ignorantly share her same sentiment. It almost cost me dearly...

DO is a no brainer

I showed her the match list for Touro-CA which shoots some excellent MDs out of the water, it's definitely time for a refresher on that though.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I applied with similar GPA numbers and was successful, so feel free if you want to PM me if she's/you're curious what I did to remediate the problem.

To be honest if she decimates the MCAT she will have a fighting chance at an acceptance at an MD school. If she doesn't, warn her, let her apply MD, and see what happens. Just as it took you (and many others) a failed cycle to apply DO, it will likely require the same from her.

At the end of the day you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.