What does it mean to apply "broadly?"

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rickyricardo

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I have a 39 MCAT, high GPA (3.95 or slightly more) from a top 20 private undergrad, with 3 years research and a bunch of leadership/service/volunteering.

I have "narrowed" my list down to most of the top 10, 5 more from the top 25, 4 from the top 50, and then 1 below 50 (based on USNWR).

Is this "broad" enough for me?

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First, congrats on the MCAT! I hope you posted on the MCAT thread on how your study methods!

In regards to applying broadly, I would think that you should apply to some reach schools, some safety schools and those in the middle.

If you have state schools, that is always a good option to include in your application process.

Since you do have pretty good stats, I can understand applying to more of the top med schools...usually, however, if you have more average stats, it might be better to apply to only a few of these reach schools.

Best of luck to you!
 
I only have 1 state school, which is the below 50 school.

I guess my question is "What are those safety and middle schools?" My GPA + MCAT is higher than averages than all the places that I'm applying to--does that mean that everything is in the middle?
 
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I have a 39 MCAT, high GPA (3.95 or slightly more) from a top 20 private undergrad, with 3 years research and a bunch of leadership/service/volunteering.

I have "narrowed" my list down to most of the top 10, 5 more from the top 25, 4 from the top 50, and then 1 below 50 (based on USNWR).

Is this "broad" enough for me?

Broad enough in my opinion. With application fees so dear nowadays, you would want to take advantage of your outstanding credentials to keep yourself from unnecessary expenses. :thumbup:
 
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Applying broadly, as in my case, means applying to schools you have no shot at, applying to places you can't go to, and are generally unaffordable.
 
I have a 39 MCAT, high GPA (3.95 or slightly more) from a top 20 private undergrad, with 3 years research and a bunch of leadership/service/volunteering.

I have "narrowed" my list down to most of the top 10, 5 more from the top 25, 4 from the top 50, and then 1 below 50 (based on USNWR).

Is this "broad" enough for me?

Well, I would suggest that the rankings you are looking at are a bit more arbitrary than the numbers you are ascribing to them, and that anything in the top 20ish or so is really in the same grouping (eg is Duke really "better" than Cornell? Probably not -- it turns on NIH research funding, which means squat to a med student), so you really have more like 15 in one group and 5 outside. That may pan out fine, but to actually be applying broadly you probably would want to move a few from the first group to the middle ones. That's what applying broadly means. Doesn't mean everybody with every set of stats needs to apply broadly, just that you aren't.

One caveat though, it's not all about the numbers, and EVERY YEAR someone on here with your stats gets burned because they almost exclusively apply to the top 20ish schools, and are not deemed a "good fit" by those schools, while a more broad grouping of schools might include some who would give more deference to the high numbers and overlook some of the less strong aspects of an application. You have to realize that after a certain numerical point at the top schools, the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and so just because you have that 3.9/39, doesn't mean the school isn't going to be more wowed by the former marine mountain climbing kickboxer with the 3.6/36 and the competitive violinist with the 3.7/37. So I'd have to say that once you have slightly higher numbers than the school's average, it starts to matter less than the other things.

So whether you have applied broadly enough turns on the strength of what else you have in your app. If you have the high numbers but nothing more than very generic hospital volunteering or research, I'd say add more middle ground schools. If you are as accomplished in the non-academic stuff than the academic, then I'd say, sure, focus on the "top 10", or "top 25" or wherever you are arbitrarilly drawing a line. But don't kid yourself into thinking that that's applying broadly.
 
I think you've prepared yourself well for the application process. I agree with the posts above. For someone in a worse position than you, applying broadly would mean applying to the top 10 medical schools (in areas they wouldn't mind living in), 10 school's with average GPA and MCAT scores similar to theirs (again, in an acceptable city/state), and a few with average scores significantly less than theirs. The number of secondaries you get back will also dictate how many more schools you should apply to. Those who have to apply so broadly that they are considering international schools should speak to someone about their options, whether it is retaking the mcat, taking extra courses to boost their GPA, or taking care of whatever issue is making them "look bad." Good luck!
 
IMHO, someone with excellent stats (LizzyM >77) plus clinical exposure and research experience shouldn't need more than 13 applications to get one offer.

The problem that most often arises for these applicants is walking in acting like the interview is a formality and that the offer of admission is a foregone conclusion. This is even worse if the applicant has already been admitted to a more prestigious school but is interviewing with the hope of a scholarship or to create a bidding war. That sense of entitlement tends to create a stench that adcoms abhor. Another group with high stats who get no offers tend to have no personalities and seem better suited for the lab than the bedside. In either case, applying more broadly won't help.... if your personality is a turn off for 13 adcoms, it will be a turnoff for the next 13 and the next 13.
 
Well, I would suggest that the rankings you are looking at are a bit more arbitrary than the numbers you are ascribing to them, and that anything in the top 20ish or so is really in the same grouping (eg is Duke really "better" than Cornell? Probably not -- it turns on NIH research funding, which means squat to a med student), so you really have more like 15 in one group and 5 outside. That may pan out fine, but to actually be applying broadly you probably would want to move a few from the first group to the middle ones. That's what applying broadly means. Doesn't mean everybody with every set of stats needs to apply broadly, just that you aren't.

One caveat though, it's not all about the numbers, and EVERY YEAR someone on here with your stats gets burned because they almost exclusively apply to the top 20ish schools, and are not deemed a "good fit" by those schools, while a more broad grouping of schools might include some who would give more deference to the high numbers and overlook some of the less strong aspects of an application. You have to realize that after a certain numerical point at the top schools, the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and so just because you have that 3.9/39, doesn't mean the school isn't going to be more wowed by the former marine mountain climbing kickboxer with the 3.6/36 and the competitive violinist with the 3.7/37. So I'd have to say that once you have slightly higher numbers than the school's average, it starts to matter less than the other things.

So whether you have applied broadly enough turns on the strength of what else you have in your app. If you have the high numbers but nothing more than very generic hospital volunteering or research, I'd say add more middle ground schools. If you are as accomplished in the non-academic stuff than the academic, then I'd say, sure, focus on the "top 10", or "top 25" or wherever you are arbitrarilly drawing a line. But don't kid yourself into thinking that that's applying broadly.

That's why I was asking.

I'm not sure what the "generic" volunteering or research would be...I go to a huge research institution and would never say any research is "generic." I don't want to spend more money than I have to, and was only planning on applying to 18-20 schools max. Most of the lower ranked (< 50) schools as per USNWR are state schools that do not accept many OOS. I just want to make the best use of my money, so if I can get in by applying top mainly top 25s and then 5 Top 50s, that's broad enough for me.
 
IMHO, someone with excellent stats (LizzyM >77) plus clinical exposure and research experience shouldn't need more than 13 applications to get one offer.

The problem that most often arises for these applicants is walking in acting like the interview is a formality and that the offer of admission is a foregone conclusion. This is even worse if the applicant has already been admitted to a more prestigious school but is interviewing with the hope of a scholarship or to create a bidding war. That sense of entitlement tends to create a stench that adcoms abhor. Another group with high stats who get no offers tend to have no personalities and seem better suited for the lab than the bedside. In either case, applying more broadly won't help.... if your personality is a turn off for 13 adcoms, it will be a turnoff for the next 13 and the next 13.

Great advice. I think I do have personality (or at least I hope) after meeting with members of adcom members at a couple schools, and they all told me I had a great chance and my "manner" was good. Also, I think the whole arrogance thing can be easily avoided. I don't know how common that is, because I don't see how you couldn't just be humble for a short interview, even if you thought you already deserved the acceptance.

You said 13 schools would be enough...but do you mean 13 out of the top 13? Surely if someone with LizzyM > 77 applied to 13 of the schools with lowest stats in the country, he/she would get in to at least one. So it's helpful advice, but would you mind elaborating for me, in my particular situation?
 
I have a 39 MCAT, high GPA (3.95 or slightly more) from a top 20 private undergrad, with 3 years research and a bunch of leadership/service/volunteering.

I have "narrowed" my list down to most of the top 10, 5 more from the top 25, 4 from the top 50, and then 1 below 50 (based on USNWR).

Is this "broad" enough for me?

Yes.

You could keep the state school, and drop 5 from the rest of the list perhaps based on geography, graduation requirements (a few schools have a required thesis, for example), or other factors that you value.
 
Yes.

You could keep the state school, and drop 5 from the rest of the list perhaps based on geography, graduation requirements (a few schools have a required thesis, for example), or other factors that you value.

I find it incredibly hard to eliminate schools based on anything besides geography (which I have already done). They all sound the same or at least reasonable culture-wise. And as far as graduation requirements, I trust the schools. If Stanford says a thesis requirement helps make you a better doctor, I'm sure it could. If my state school doesn't, maybe it's not necessary. Basically I have no experience with medical education, so it would be presumptious for me to say "A thesis requirement is stupid. I'll do research if I want to," and eliminate a thesis-requiring school based on that. Same goes for other factors...
 
I find it incredibly hard to eliminate schools based on anything besides geography (which I have already done). They all sound the same or at least reasonable culture-wise. And as far as graduation requirements, I trust the schools. If Stanford says a thesis requirement helps make you a better doctor, I'm sure it could. If my state school doesn't, maybe it's not necessary. Basically I have no experience with medical education, so it would be presumptious for me to say "A thesis requirement is stupid. I'll do research if I want to," and eliminate a thesis-requiring school based on that. Same goes for other factors...

It isn't that a thesis is or isn't stupid...:confused: Either you enjoy research enough that you look forward to the opportunity to engage in an independent project and write a thesis or you'd rather spend your time in other ways. Why do you want to come to "..." medical school where we require a thesis? You've got to be able to answer that question.
 
I guess my point was that it doesn't matter to me. I like research and want to do it (or else I wouldn't be applying to top ranked research schools). A required thesis has some pros (makes you write something and gives you a goal, plus you get guidance) and some cons (its required and if I change my mind about research I probably wouldn't be too happy about it). It may be that a required thesis indicates a school with an overall focus on research, but that would be assuming too much as well (who's to say that a strong research school just doesn't want to force its students to do projects?).
 
It isn't that a thesis is or isn't stupid...:confused: Either you enjoy research enough that you look forward to the opportunity to engage in an independent project and write a thesis or you'd rather spend your time in other ways. Why do you want to come to "..." medical school where we require a thesis? You've got to be able to answer that question.

But returning to my original question, some subset of my 20 schools (10 in the Top 10, 5 in Ranks 10-25, 5 in Ranks 25-50, and one below 50) should be fine?
 
But returning to my original question, some subset of my 20 schools (10 in the Top 10, 5 in Ranks 10-25, 5 in Ranks 25-50, and one below 50) should be fine?

Fine. You could cut the list but you don't want to. Some of the top schools do not release any offers until the end of the season but some schools do. You could always save money by deciding not to interview at some schools after you have an offer at one school .
 
Fine. You could cut the list but you don't want to. Some of the top schools do not release any offers until the end of the season but some schools do. You could always save money by deciding not to interview at some schools after you have an offer at one school .

Well I wouldn't mind cutting 2 or 3. My target was 18-20 to begin with, so if the 20 is good enough I'd be happy. It sounds like you're saying my 20 would be fine.

But you're right about choosing interviews later on. However, many schools are in the east coast (where I live) and accessible by a $20-40 bus ticket, so the cost of the AMCAS + secondary can be just as much as the interview.
 
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