What exactly scares people about organic chemistry?

[JoyKim456]

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[Person0715]

I think it has a lot to do with the perceived volume of stuff there is to memorize, but conceptually, Orgo is relatively easy.

 

[What's Up Doc]

you have to be smart and work hard to do well. nothing special.

 

[Funke]

It's been great so far. I've liked it way better than gen chem.

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

Because it is a different style of thinking that isn't quantitative like math/physics nor memorizational like bio. It's very conceptual topic where most people are exposed to that type of thinking for the first time. I find people who like proof type math (not plug and chug) or other theory based things like philosophy enjoy it.

Personally, I love the subject and it makes a lot of sense to me. Just keep up with the material and try to really conceptualize what's going on and you'll be fine. Premeds are just whiny about it.

 

[Theafoni]

I think it's easier than physics and gen chem.

 

[grivacobae]

Way better imo than gen chem, pretty straightforward too, but i'm at the point where all the mechanisms are gonna pop up, sooo ill let you know in a few weeks if i change my mind lol

 

[AGSIII]

I don't think it's that hard, but IMHO gen chem was much more enjoyable.

 

[dkr34]

I think it's a combination of the volume of information, including all of those darn mechanisms!

 

[The Kraken]

Ochem is the most straightforward, logical class as long as you learn the fundamentals.

 

[GodComplex]

Mostly all of the hype that everyone else perpetuates after taking the course.


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[moisne]

Gotta actually understand what you are doing to pass.

 

[sunflower18]

I've been an OChem tutor for the past two years, and people consistently get tripped up by the visualization aspect. Most students haven't ever thought in a 3-dimensional sense before, and trying to convert between Newman projections and chairs and flat structures in order to determine stereochemistry can initially be challenging.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I've been an OChem tutor for the past two years, and people consistently get tripped up by the visualization aspect. Most students haven't ever thought in a 3-dimensional sense before, and trying to convert between Newman projections and chairs and flat structures in order to determine stereochemistry can initially be challenging.

I tutor organic as well (they call it O Chem on the west coast?! ) and ppl usually think they have a grasp of the material when it's presented to them in simpler molecules. And later, they're tested with more complex carbon skeletons and they lose sight of the relevant functional groups.

 

[sunflower18]

I tutor organic as well (they call it O Chem on the west coast?! ) and ppl usually think they have a grasp of the material when it's presented to them in simpler molecules. And later, they're tested with more complex carbon skeletons and they lose sight of the relevant functional groups.

Yes, that's what I see too. Students tend to get very confused with rings regarding axial/equatorial vs up/down and how to do ring flips and all that. They often make mistakes when converting between the types of drawings, and that's where some confusion comes in. But all these problems are fixable! They just take a bit of time and patience.

Haha, you just say "organic"?? That's funny! @claduva94 and I have an ongoing war about "orgo" vs "OChem"... he knows I'm right though "OChem" is the superior nickname! "Orgo" just sounds gross. I don't mind "organic" either... But "OChem" and "PChem" go well together. I've heard some people say "Phy Chem" and that's too weird to even consider hahaha.

 

[Silverflash]

I'll go ahead and be the person to say that I really, really struggled with Ochem, and I'm a very logical, math-oriented person. I think I failed to pick up the fundamentals early (a poor teacher had something to do with this), and thus got lost as the material progressed. I'd ask people who were stellar at Ochem how a problem worked, and they'd say something along the lines of "Well, the electrons are pushed to this carbon..." and I'd respond with "But why?" and they'd say "...it just does." They had a "feel" for it, and I didn't.

In other words, until I picked up the fundamentals (sometime during Ochem 2) of electron movements and electronegativity, everything was hazy and confusing. I only passed Ochem 1 (with a B, even) via rote memorization of hundreds of reaction archetypes; I had no actual understanding of the material at all for the first semester.

I'm not saying Ochem is hard, since once it "clicked" it became relatively simple. I just understand why some people have difficulty with it, since I certainly did.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Yes, that's what I see too. Students tend to get very confused with rings regarding axial/equatorial vs up/down and how to do ring flips and all that. They often make mistakes when converting between the types of drawings, and that's where some confusion comes in. But all these problems are fixable! They just take a bit of time and patience.

Haha, you just say "organic"?? That's funny! @claduva94 and I have an ongoing war about "orgo" vs "OChem"... he knows I'm right though "OChem" is the superior nickname! "Orgo" just sounds gross. I don't mind "organic" either... But "OChem" and "PChem" go well together. I've heard some people say "Phy Chem" and that's too weird to even consider hahaha.

I say organic and orgo I've only heard Ochem from a Californian so I guess that's the correct way to say it

I tell the students to draw 50 chairs and to flip them for practice so that it becomes 2nd nature. Most of them don't listen though

Phy Chem sounds hilarious, yet it must be insanely difficult. And thank heaven I can avoid it! But you're taking it now, aren't you?! Ah, the rigors of Sunflower U!!

 

[altblue]

Going through the orgo haze fest right now... You have to understand what's going on to do well.

 

[Megalomis]

I say organic and orgo I've only heard Ochem from a Californian so I guess that's the correct way to say it

I tell the students to draw 50 chairs and to flip them for practice so that it becomes 2nd nature. Most of them don't listen though

Phy Chem sounds hilarious, yet it must be insanely difficult. And thank heaven I can avoid it! But you're taking it now, aren't you?! Ah, the rigors of Sunflower U!!

Well what is orgo? Lol. Organic and ochem actually make sense in their abbreviated versions.

 

[sunflower18]

I say organic and orgo I've only heard Ochem from a Californian so I guess that's the correct way to say it

I tell the students to draw 50 chairs and to flip them for practice so that it becomes 2nd nature. Most of them don't listen though

Phy Chem sounds hilarious, yet it must be insanely difficult. And thank heaven I can avoid it! But you're taking it now, aren't you?! Ah, the rigors of Sunflower U!!

Hahaha "OChem" is the correct way you actually say "Phy Chem"?!? Wow. I say "PChem"! And yes it is very hard currently taking it. It's interesting though I suppose!!

Your advice is very good i bet the ones who do listen get really great at it!

 

[sunflower18]

Well what is orgo? Lol. Organic and ochem actually make sense in their abbreviated versions.

Right?! Take that @claduva94

 

[Silverflash]

I've only heard Ochem from a Californian so I guess that's the correct way to say it

We say Ochem here in Texas as well!

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Hahaha "OChem" is the correct way you actually say "Phy Chem"?!? Wow. I say "PChem"! And yes it is very hard currently taking it. It's interesting though I suppose!!

Your advice is very good i bet the ones who do listen get really great at it!

Thanks! It does work out well for the the ones that listen. And I usually say PChem. This is the first time I've heard Phy Chem and it sounds hilarious.

Well what is orgo? Lol. Organic and ochem actually make sense in their abbreviated versions.

Apparently it's a rooftop bar in Singapore

http://www.yoursingapore.com/content/traveller/en/ExecSG/nightlife-orgo.html

 

[deleted642188]

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I personally felt when I was taking organic chemistry, the most scary part of it was the volume of knowledge: concepts, reactions, and especially exceptions for each reaction. In addition lab was very time consuming for me and is a quarter of your grade at my school. the thing that sucked also was that I had to schedule my labs on the day of my o-chem midterms....

 

[efle]

Nothing about the content is what makes it "scary". It's the fact that it's curved with the average usually set to about a B/B- or 3.0/2.7 GPA, so half the people are guaranteed to get grades which can bring down their BCPM for med school apps. Some courses, like PChem, are straight up hard. Ochem is only made difficult by the inherent competition.

 

[TactFR44]

The only thing that makes Ochem scary is the professor you take it with. Some are horrendous while others are more straightforward.

 

[FFH]

I asked all my Orgo professor where did the second "o" come from, no one knew. I feel like it must have been a very naughty person who invented this nickname.

 

[deleted642188]

The only thing that makes Ochem scary is the professor you take it with. Some are horrendous while others are more straightforward.

Indeed, I remember that when 3/4 of the class stopped going to lecture, my o-chem 2 professor purposely made the final almost impossible

 

[FFH]

The only thing that makes Ochem scary is the professor you take it with. Some are horrendous while others are more straightforward.

This is why doing well in college is only about half to do with intelligence. Another half is hard work+detective skills. By detective skills I mean finding the right professor and really understand what the professor is looking for.

 

[Theafoni]

I asked all my Orgo professor where did the second "o" come from, no one knew. I feel like it must have been a very naughty person who invented this nickname.

orgasmic

 

[PlasticBag]

Seems like "orgo" is an east coast thing and "ochem" a west coast/southwest thing?

Either way, this class seems to be highly correlated with my existential crises ("do I really need to go to med school?", "is there another career that I would be happy with that doesn't require orgo?", "am I of below average intelligence?" and so on ---> googling suicide hotline).

Ok, not googling suicide hotlines quite yet but there is nothing I ever hated that much (lab especially!) and I already have two degrees.

 

[deleted642188]

Seems like "orgo" is an east coast thing and "ochem" a west coast/southwest thing?

Either way, this class seems to be highly correlated with my existential crises ("do I really need to go to med school?", "is there another career that I would be happy with that doesn't require orgo?", "am I of below average intelligence?" and so on ---> googling suicide hotline).

Ok, not googling suicide hotlines quite yet but there is nothing I ever hated that much (lab especially!) and I already have two degrees.

In regards to another career without O-chem.... have you thought about comp. Sci/Engineering/statistician? oh wait what about accounting?

 

[FFH]

Seems like "orgo" is an east coast thing and "ochem" a west coast/southwest thing?

Either way, this class seems to be highly correlated with my existential crises ("do I really need to go to med school?", "is there another career that I would be happy with that doesn't require orgo?", "am I of below average intelligence?" and so on ---> googling suicide hotline).

Ok, not googling suicide hotlines quite yet but there is nothing I ever hated that much (lab especially!) and I already have two degrees.

My suggestion, fool yourself into loving Orgo. It worked for me at first and then I started to develop genuine feelings for her. In the end, I was kind of a Orgo manic.
And btw, you have the most humble sounding username on SDN.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I just disliked the amount of time I had to spend on ORGO to understand and memorize it. "Orgo" isn't just an east coast thing; it's a Midwest thing too because that's what we Wash U kids call it lol. Orgo morgo porgo schmorgo!
@sunflower18 @claduva94 @Cyberdyne 101

 

[Ragtime]

I just started my first quarter of o.chem, and I find it challenging to visualize and manipulate the molecules in 3D in my head and on paper. stereochemistry or whatever

 

[Zelda840]

In other words, until I picked up the fundamentals (sometime during Ochem 2) of electron movements and electronegativity, everything was hazy and confusing. I only passed Ochem 1 (with a B, even) via rote memorization of hundreds of reaction archetypes; I had no actual understanding of the material at all for the first semester.

I'm not saying Ochem is hard, since once it "clicked" it became relatively simple. I just understand why some people have difficulty with it, since I certainly did.

Same here. I swear I got a B that first semester through sheer will. I had no idea at all what was going on. Just memorized every picture I saw and tried to find the patterns. Stereochemistry and NMR were my saving grace.

 

[STLbamf]

Dude I'm taking it this year and it is by far the hardest and most BORING/USELESS of the med school prereqs, you have to learn such a buttload of entirely new crap you were NEVER exposed to in high school (unlike gen chem) at an incredibly fast pace while taking other challenging courses. I got two high A's in the gen chems and am on the C+/B- border in this godforsaken class...no curves either...so basically just get a prof who curves generously because unless youre brilliant or work 20 hours a week on this class will humble you

 

[Jabbed]

There's this myth that because organic chemistry is the 'most difficult' premed class it also best prepares you for medical school. This is patently false. The only thing that organic chemistry prepares you for is integration of arcane and disparate information that is, for the most part, not readily comprehensible. What's worse is that it has zero application to any medical school coursework. Anything that you see in medical school from undergrad will come from biochemistry, genetics, immuno, micro, cell bio, anatomy/physio and a tiny bit of physics.

Organic chemistry has no place in higher education for medical students. That's why everyone hates it.

 

[PlasticBag]

My suggestion, fool yourself into loving Orgo. It worked for me at first and then I started to develop genuine feelings for her. In the end, I was kind of a Orgo manic.
And btw, you have the most humble sounding username on SDN.

I'm in the middle of orgo 2 now so 1,5 semester of hatred will be hard to turn into love and whenever I see something borderline interesting in the textbook ("this compound reduced tumor growth blah blah"), I think "this will not be on the exam",so skip skip skip.

Haha, never thought much about my SDN handle but it probably reflects the ego-crushing transformation into a premed

 

[WillburCobb]

The two things that make OCHEM (not orgo - weirdos) hard are rote memorizing info v. conceptualizing it and differences between profs. Once you learn the difference between memorizing and conceptualizing Ochem is pretty reasonable. Regarding the second factor, I took Ochem twice because it took me until half way through Ochem II to actually realize how to conceptualize the material. My first prof. would have questions where he'd ask you to show the mechanism to synthesize branched cyclic and aromatic compounds from 2-3 C precursors that were worth 1/4 - 1/3 of your grade. If you made one mistake, even fudging a reagent letter or not making your e- arrows "clear" enough you lost all points, no partial credit.

 

[PlasticBag]

I think the hardest part is that you need to synthesize (ha! ) information from all previous chapters and also be able know them really well, even when it's out of context. I realized at some point that my biggest struggle comes from not being able to identify "which chapter" something comes from on an exam. When I do textbook problems, I know I'm reading about, say, carboxylic acids, so my mind will immediately think about carbonyl chemistry, oxidation, etc. But when the exam has five other chapters on it, I cannot immediately recognize that "oh, this is the carboxylic acid thing". I just can't put it in the big picture, I'm not sure where to start (partial charges, protons available to be taken away, weird reagents? etc.). I just started making flashcards from different chapters and shuffling them randomly to force myself to think about the big picture and identify patterns. I hope my grade is not beyond salvation yet. When did I become that person who really hopes to avoid anything below a C and has wild dreams of a B-... ugh...

 

[claduva94]

I just disliked the amount of time I had to spend on ORGO to understand and memorize it. "Orgo" isn't just an east coast thing; it's a Midwest thing too because that's what we Wash U kids call it lol. Orgo morgo porgo schmorgo!
@sunflower18 @claduva94 @Cyberdyne 101

D*mn skippy it is orgo! But no reason to start a debate. @sunflower18, @Cyberdyne 101 ,and the rest of y'all are entirely entitled to be wrong!!!

I found ORGO to be my favorite class. Plus I currently draw some pretty great hexagons. That is the limit of my artistic ability.

 

[sunflower18]

D*mn skippy it is orgo! But no reason to start a debate. @sunflower18, @Cyberdyne 101 ,and the rest of y'all are entirely entitled to be wrong!!!

I found ORGO to be my favorite class. Plus I currently draw some pretty great hexagons. That is the limit of my artistic ability.

You know I'm right. You've slipped up and called it "OChem" multiple times. Don't even start with me!

I think it also really depends on how it's taught and tested... At my school, OChem classes are ~15-20 people, so all of the exams are long answer where you have to draw out mechanisms and write explanations for why things occur. There are also a lot of real world examples, since our professors are all engaged in medicinal chemistry to some extent, and they want us to always think about how these concepts relate to actual compounds. This is really conducive to learning, in my opinion. I can't imagine doing organic chemistry in a multiple choice way, like it's tested on the MCAT.... It's just so much harder to actually grasp concepts when you don't have the opportunity to verbalize them and instead you're selecting an answer from a list.

 

[efle]

I'm pretty surprised to hear that having to memorize a lot is what people struggled with. At my school it was assumed that everyone would have everything memorized very well and it was the extreme logical difficulty of the exams and fact that it was curved which made it a nightmare. It was never about mastering the material, since everyone did that (textbook problems were too easy to be good practice). It was about being smarter in applying it to bizzare new situations unlike anything seen in the book or lecture than all your very gifted peers.

 

[claduva94]

You know I'm right. You've slipped up and called it "OChem" multiple times. Don't even start with me!

I think it also really depends on how it's taught and tested... At my school, OChem classes are ~15-20 people, so all of the exams are long answer where you have to draw out mechanisms and write explanations for why things occur. There are also a lot of real world examples, since our professors are all engaged in medicinal chemistry to some extent, and they want us to always think about how these concepts relate to actual compounds. This is really conducive to learning, in my opinion. I can't imagine doing organic chemistry in a multiple choice way, like it's tested on the MCAT.... It's just so much harder to actually grasp concepts when you don't have the opportunity to verbalize them and instead you're selecting an answer from a list.

Only to please you

But yes. I was able to spend roughly 3 hours total on each exam because it is almost entirely logic. If you have basic reactions memorized and know how electrons should flow it really isn't too difficult. Mechanisms can be deduced fairly easily.

 

[efle]

Get a room guys @sunflower18 @claduva94

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Lol, can this get any geekier?!

 

[efle]

Lol, can this get any geekier?!

they could put on their robes and wizard hats?

 

[acapnial]

At my undergrad, ochem WAS a really hard course, where we had an average of about 35% on one exam, and the final grade was curved so that the top 11% got an A, the next 22% got a B, 33% C, 22% D, and 11% F. In 2008 though the older professors retired and now it's more like a normal course where the averages are in the upper 70's and people's grades are based on their final percent, not their rank within the class.

 

[claduva94]

they could put on their robes and wizard hats?

Don't tempt me