What exactly scares people about organic chemistry?

[Copernicium]

If you ain't talkin orgo (alternative: organic) I don't wanna talk

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[efle]

At my undergrad, ochem WAS a really hard course, where we had an average of about 35% on one exam, and the final grade was curved so that the top 11% got an A, the next 22% got a B, 33% C, 22% D, and 11% F. In 2008 though the older professors retired and now it's more like a normal course where the averages are in the upper 70's and people's grades are based on their final percent, not their rank within the class.

It's rare to have an actual percent grade system in Ochem, more common to do the percentile curving. But averages in the 30s is rough, I had that too, and most of my friends at other Uni's say theirs usually average in the 50s and 60s. Otherwise the bell curve gets too squished towards zero and passing the class means getting a 10/100 on the test! How does that display acceptable understanding of the material to merit a pass??

 

[acapnial]

It's rare to have an actual percent grade system in Ochem, more common to do the percentile curving. But averages in the 30s is rough, I had that too, and most of my friends at other Uni's say theirs usually average in the 50s and 60s. Otherwise the bell curve gets too squished towards zero and passing the class means getting a 10/100 on the test! How does that display acceptable understanding of the material to merit a pass??

Our professor sure wasn't shy about telling us that our understanding of the subject was unacceptable. After every test he would say to the class "I don't get why this is so hard for you. Organic chemistry is just making electrons happy."

 

[efle]

Yea, when 300+ people who did well in high school miserably fail your test, maaaaaybe it wasn't written at an appropriate difficulty level for novice ochemists.

Or yea maybe were just dumb.

 

[FFH]

For Orgo I, I picked a professor who's memory based because the materials are less logical and I haven't yet master the electron movements. The whole alkene alkyne benzene thing can get messy if the professor goes too far down the road of "what really happened" It also did not take too long to remember things for Orgo I since there aren't as many reactions as in II. For Orgo II, I picked a professor that's more mechanism based, who instead of trying to enlarge the scope of the reactions known to us, made sure we know the basic few really really well. It made Orgo II super fun without overbearing. Worked out nicely for me. If you have the option, do this. But above all, I feel like you need to find the professors that fit your style and who are not intrinsically bad people. Some, not so kind. If it's harder to connect with my professor on a human level then I find it harder to have strong passion towards the teaching. Although it shouldn't be this way since I should take the responsibility of learning to my own hand, it's just harder on generating the motivation.

And Orgo for the win!

 

[nOchemallday]

I asked all my Orgo professor where did the second "o" come from, no one knew. I feel like it must have been a very naughty person who invented this nickname.

What I'm about to post is total conjecture and made up on the spot:
Organic Chemistry could have been shortened to Org Chem then using an "o" to connect these roots such as in medical terminology (ex. arthroplasty, morphology) to yield the connecting form, Orgochem, which was then shortened to Orgo. Obviously orgology never caught on 'cause it sounds like gargling water.

 

[Hospitalized]

Dude I'm taking it this year and it is by far the hardest and most BORING/USELESS of the med school prereqs, you have to learn such a buttload of entirely new crap you were NEVER exposed to in high school (unlike gen chem) at an incredibly fast pace while taking other challenging courses. I got two high A's in the gen chems and am on the C+/B- border in this godforsaken class...no curves either...so basically just get a prof who curves generously because unless youre brilliant or work 20 hours a week on this class will humble you

Everything wrong with premeds in one post! Quite whining about being exposed to something new that takes work to understand. If you aren't willing to put in the time to learn Ochem, I can't imagine you'll be able to do well in medical school classes.

Your post seems to be the reason this class is referred to as a "weed out" class though...

 

[STLbamf]

Everything wrong with premeds in one post! Quite whining about being exposed to something new that takes work to understand. If you aren't willing to put in the time to learn Ochem, I can't imagine you'll be able to do well in medical school classes.

Your post seems to be the reason this class is referred to as a "weed out" class though...

hey douche, no law against hating a class. Organic Chemistry is essentially irrelevant to medicine when compared to the other prereq's and i think its boring and don't like it! Still getting a B though so i AM working hard, god FORBID anybody whines about a class from time to time, I'm sure you've NEVER done it, now stop being a tool. Next time I just want to vent on an anonymous forum I'm glad I have you around to police everything that's wrong with me

 

[efle]

Everything wrong with premeds in one post! Quite whining about being exposed to something new that takes work to understand. If you aren't willing to put in the time to learn Ochem, I can't imagine you'll be able to do well in medical school classes.

Your post seems to be the reason this class is referred to as a "weed out" class though...

hey douche, no law against hating a class. Organic Chemistry is essentially irrelevant to medicine when compared to the other prereq's and i think its boring and don't like it! Still getting a B though so i AM working hard, god FORBID anybody whines about a class from time to time, I'm sure you've NEVER done it, now stop being a tool. Next time I just want to vent on an anonymous forum I'm glad I have you around to police everything that's wrong with me

 

[Holmwood]

The concept of weeding out implies you are actually removing weeds.

The definition of weeds is "a valueless plant growing wild, especially one that grows on cultivated ground to the exclusion or injury of the desired crop."

Whoever created that terminology of weeding out really wanted to be douchy.

-----------------------

hey douche, no law against hating a class. Organic Chemistry is essentially irrelevant to medicine when compared to the other prereq's and i think its boring and don't like it! Still getting a B though so i AM working hard, god FORBID anybody whines about a class from time to time, I'm sure you've NEVER done it, now stop being a tool. Next time I just want to vent on an anonymous forum I'm glad I have you around to police everything that's wrong with me

Anyway, Ochem builds the foundations for Biochemistry, which has a lot to do with pharmaceuticals and understanding molecular processes that underlie diseases. If you don't know the basics, you can't understand scientific literature. If you can't understand scientific literature... well good luck to the longevity of your practice. Medicine is constantly changing with new scientific findings. So, it's important that you at least have a solid foundation of ochem concepts, and build upon those concepts through biochemistry onward.

And B = / = laziness. I will agree with that. Some of the courses I worked crazy hard for, I ended up getting a B in. : /

 

[Hospitalized]

hey douche, no law against hating a class. Organic Chemistry is essentially irrelevant to medicine when compared to the other prereq's and i think its boring and don't like it! Still getting a B though so i AM working hard, god FORBID anybody whines about a class from time to time, I'm sure you've NEVER done it, now stop being a tool. Next time I just want to vent on an anonymous forum I'm glad I have you around to police everything that's wrong with me

Hate it all you want. But it doesn't sound like you hate Ochem, it sounds like you hate the vast amount of material and the fact that you can't pick up on it easily without practicing it.

Tell me exactly how learning organic structures that are directly correlated to medications is irrelevant?

Also, I am critical of my classes all of the time. It's my presentation of scrutiny that is important. And yours too, for that matter.

 

[PlasticBag]

I hate orgo and find it boring but I don't think it's completely useless. I would say it's more relevant to medicine than physics...

I just think it's not taught in an interesting/inspiring way. It should be much better integrated with lab to make it less abstract. I guess at some schools you do cool stuff like make aspirin but mine just makes me reflux things every lab.

 

[FFH]

Come on, we don't even have to go as far as in med school where it'll be useful, even required as a foundation for biochem and for pharm. Don't you appreciate that now when you are on the toilet and don't have your phone for SDN, you can read the shampoo bottles and you can actually read the name of the chemicals used to make the shampoo and have a rough rough idea what type of compounds they are?

 

[STLbamf]

No i love learning i knew nothing about gen chem or calculus 1 and 2 but i loved both of them and got A's, just dont like ochem because I find it uninteresting and I've always been told once you get to med school you really don't apply it hardly at all. It's pretty presumptuous of you to understand everything about me and my motivations from one post bitching about ochem, but if I can give you some false notion of premed superiority i'm glad i could help.

 

[STLbamf]

Hate it all you want. But it doesn't sound like you hate Ochem, it sounds like you hate the vast amount of material and the fact that you can't pick up on it easily without practicing it.

Tell me exactly how learning organic structures that are directly correlated to medications is irrelevant?

Also, I am critical of my classes all of the time. It's my presentation of scrutiny that is important. And yours too, for that matter.

Come on, we don't even have to go as far as in med school where it'll be useful, even required as a foundation for biochem and for pharm. Don't you appreciate that now when you are on the toilet and don't have your phone for SDN, you can read the shampoo bottles and you can actually read the name of the chemicals used to make the shampoo and have a rough rough idea what type of compounds they are?

Ochem is NOT useful in 99% of medical school and reading a shampoo bottle and "roughly" understanding what it has in it probably isn't on the USMLE, all I did was give the OP my honest opinion of what makes ochem SCARY which is what this thread is about

 

[Germanicus89]

This is why organic chemistry is scary

 

[efle]

Lol that's practically friendly looking.

One of the questions on my second ever Orgo I exam (approx a month into the course):

"Propose an arrow pushing mechanism to account for this conversion". Here's the answer - keep in mind we had about ten minutes per question. I couldn't even draw all that in ten minutes if I knew the mechanism ahead of time!

Passing grade on this exam was a 12/100.

That's why Orgo is scary - no amount of studying really helps you get ready for that because the textbook problems from the introductory ochem book are not even in the same ballpark. And memory certainly does nothing for you. It just comes down to you figuring it out better than all the other smart kids around you and beating them on a curve.

 

[Germanicus89]

Can you identify the molecule I posted?

 

[Mountaineer23]

Way better imo than gen chem, pretty straightforward too, but i'm at the point where all the mechanisms are gonna pop up, sooo ill let you know in a few weeks if i change my mind lol

So technically you haven't experienced organic yet lol you will change your mind.

Organic is tough in the sense it requires you to think in different ways than other classes. Synthesis problems were always my weak point. If you try to memorize organic you won't do very well

 

[Mountaineer23]

View attachment 186562

This is why organic chemistry is scary

Trinitrotoluene. NEXT lol. IUPAC and common naming were the easiest parts

 

[Mountaineer23]

Also, anyone who says organic builds a foundation for biochemistry is a liar. You could do well in biochem without even taking organic in my opinion

 

[Germanicus89]

I'm pretty scared of TNT. Also this one:

 

[efle]

Guys I missed his point - he isn't saying structures are hard he's listing really nasty stuff like chemical weapons

 

[Mountaineer23]

 

[efle]

That gif is unsettling

 

[sunflower18]

I <3 Stanley

 

[efle]

I <3 Stanley

 

[Holmwood]

Also, anyone who says organic builds a foundation for biochemistry is a liar. You could do well in biochem without even taking organic in my opinion

It depends on which biochemistry teacher you ended up getting... lol.

I did the whole electron drawing/nomenclature/synthesis with my biochemistry prof, but my brother didn't. He just had to remember the "concepts". We were in different state unis, but he was a biochemistry major... so I don't know where he got off on getting the easy biochem.

 

[Mountaineer23]

Did you take a chem focused biochem? Mine was more on the biology pathway type emphasis

 

[Holmwood]

Did you take a chem focused biochem? Mine was more on the biology pathway type emphasis

Oh, that might be it! I believe it was chem focused since we did have some biochem and chem majors in the class. It was required for bio majors, so I had no choice but to take it.... At my uni, there was an easier biochem where you learned more about nutritional stuff, but that was only for non-science majors. I guess different schools structure it differently. Anyway, you've correctly addressed why I'm biased about ochem's role in biochem.

The question I have is whether the biochem in medical schools require a strong background in ochem. As a pre-med, I can't answer that question, lol.

 

[JoyKim456]

You know what I don't understand? People on here think that pre-meds and freshman worrying about the future are extremely annoying. I understand that. But if I ask a serious question and ask for thoughtful insight, I come to see sarcasm and people being rude to each other.

 

[efle]

You know what I don't understand? People on here think that pre-meds and freshman worrying about the future are extremely annoying. I understand that. But if I ask a serious question and ask for thoughtful insight, I come to see sarcasm and people being rude to each other.

 

[Holmwood]

You know what I don't understand? People on here think that pre-meds and freshman worrying about the future are extremely annoying. I understand that. But if I ask a serious question and ask for thoughtful insight, I come to see sarcasm and people being rude to each other.

I know this is off topic, but that's just how the world works. It'd be best to learn how to deal with this sort of thing early on before you pursue medical training, which is world renown for its bullying culture.

And as @efle said, welcome to the internet.

 

[JoyKim456]

Sorry for thinking that people pursuing the medical field were intelligent and mature. I guess you guys are right though. A lot of people have nothing better to do than being on the internet and being douches.

 

[efle]

Sorry for thinking that people pursuing the medical field were intelligent and mature. I guess you guys are right though. A lot of people have nothing better to do than being on the internet and being douches.

 

[JoyKim456]

Why would I be butt hurt? Look at this post, no one was specifically mean to me (except you right now). I feel as if this is one of those times where you cannot be logical with a bully.

 

[Meerkatology]

its boring.

 

[640936]

Back to ochem: it's definitely not my best class (almost the worst), but it's my best MCAT section...hmm...

 

[efle]

Why would I be butt hurt? Look at this post, no one was specifically mean to me (except you right now). I feel as if this is one of those times where you cannot be logical with an idiot.

[Probably sore from the giant stick up ur butt]

I redact my comment, the mods did not enjoy my trolling of JoyKim as much as I did. I apologize, may his intellect, maturity and completely normal level of sensitivity enlighten all of us unreasonable idiots!

 

[Doxorubicin]

I think where a lot of people screw up in organic is they learn reactions for one test and forget them. Then they realize too late that they needed to have those reactions learned for good... all while more reactions pile up.
Not to say it's easy, but like anything else, if you keep up, life is so much easier.

 

[640936]

I think where a lot of people screw up in organic is they learn reactions for one test and forget them. Then they realize too late that they needed to have those reactions learned for good... all while more reactions pile up.
Not to say it's easy, but like anything else, if you keep up, life is so much easier.

That was me last Friday. Luckily for me, there was a nice curve and my prof is willing to help me get them known for good

 

[Winged Scapula]

Users are reminded to remain civil and refrain from insulting each other.

 

[z_maverica]

Your inability to understand it makes you feel out of control fool!

 

[Copernicium]

I always thought the physics sequence was much harder and dont understand why I never see anybody complain about it

 

[panda16]

When I tutor Orgo, my students' number one complaint is that they can't memorize their way through to an A, at least at our school. Sure, if you memorize you can get like a B or B-, but it's only if you understand over arching themes of the course that you can say you get that mastery of the material.

 

[ChrisMack390]

My orgo 1 professor was so crappy she got canned after that semester :-/

My orgo 2 class was much better, but I still struggled since my fundamentals weren't good.

 

[NeuResurgens]

I always thought the physics sequence was much harder and dont understand why I never see anybody complain about it

I hate physics by far the most of any of the prereqs. It's interesting to see how the world works in this way, but I don't like the level of knowledge required for, say, the MCAT when it comes to physics. I wish the amount of physics and orgo on it would be switched as you can see a lot more orgo at work in physiology and cell/drug biology.

View attachment 186562

This is why organic chemistry is scary

 

[RedPhys]

I always thought the physics sequence was much harder and dont understand why I never see anybody complain about it

I think because people realize there is simply no way to memorize your way through physics
People do, however, think they can (and sometimes, even think that they have to!) memorize their way through Organic as long as they go at it hard enough

"Propose an arrow pushing mechanism to account for this conversion". .

Problems like these are why I loved organic chemistry. It's just playing with the patterns and things you've been taught (resonance structure and stability, and how things play out when your reagent is an acid, i.e. a source of H+)

 

[Banco]

I actually really liked it.

 

[panda16]

I hate physics by far the most of any of the prereqs. It's interesting to see how the world works in this way, but I don't like the level of knowledge required for, say, the MCAT when it comes to physics. I wish the amount of physics and orgo on it would be switched as you can see a lot more orgo at work in physiology and cell/drug biology.

OMG Physics was the absolute WORST, I hated every second of that course and every time it was on the MCAT, even if it was simple.