What I wish I knew before starting medical school (non-trad focused)

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mspeedwagon

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Hi All, I started medical school this fall and learned a few things that I wish to share with non-trads that have been away from academics for several years, which I wish I knew when applying. I got some pretty good advice from sdn and some bad advice. Here are things that I would have done differently if I was applying to schools now.

1) When evaluating schools get the schedule and see how much study time you are given. Look for schools with the least amount of class and greatest number of free hours to study. If you are in school from 8 a.m. - 5 p.m., you're basically left with 5 hrs or so (at most) to study and this may not be enough if you have been out of school for a while. Also, try to find out if the school has a 5 year decelerated option (it's nice to know it exists if you need it), but don't ask about this at interviews.

2) In the same vain as number one, look for the least required extracurricular activities. Ideally no required physician shadowing, no forced trips before exams and the like (you want your first two years to be dedicated to doing well on your in-class exams and the boards).

3) Teaching quality and recorded lectures are very important as are access to old exams. This is really hard to evaluate. I asked about this at the interview for every school, but I didn't get an honest answer. Go around and ask students and search for reviews (though these may be hard to find... unlike in undergrad where you have whole websites dedicated to reviewing profs). The first year teachers I've had to deal with range from mediocre to really bad. Also, we had a lot of issues with recorded lectures, which has sucked given that I really needed to re-watch some of them.

4) Don't waste your time in-class if you aren't learning. This was a huge mistake I made. I went to class to get exposure to material... it's a complete waste. Either read up before the lecture so you can optimize learning in-class or watch the recorded lecture so you can pause it if you don't understand something or just review notes and power points if your school makes them available.

5) Prepare for every class. You should at least have the basics of what is going to be covered today. If you don't you are going to get lost pretty quickly and are again wasting your time.

6) Be military with time. Plan life/study schedule and stick to it as best as you can.

7) Don't only relax the summer before starting medical school (this was probably the worst advice I got from sdn). If you've been out of school a while (more than 2 or 3 and certainly if more than 5), I would actually go ahead and start reading science textbooks again (preferably in subjects that you are about to cover in the first semester). Figure out how you learn best (auditory, visual, kinesthetic). Spend a lot of time coming up with a study strategy that will work for you. There is going to be a tremendous amount of material thrown at you and if you don't know how to process it panic attacks, anxiety and depression will ensue and you'll loose your purpose and start hating medical school and this is not a position you want to find yourself in.

8) The MCAT does not prepare you at all for medical school. A misconception that I had is that some of the material from the MCAT would help carry me through my first year of medical school. All those hours put in for the MCAT are basically just a checkbox. I hope one day the MCAT serves as a prep test for med school. In a little over half a semester of med school, the only thing that has overlapped with MCAT material is Ohm's law (V=IR was mentioned in cellular physiology), skeletal muscle contraction and action potential generation.

9) If you are going to medical school in a different state, move at least a month before. If you need a car, get a certified pre-owned one with a warranty. And, ideally, live alone or, if you have to, another medical student (assuming you aren't married of course... if you are, then live with your significant other).

10) If you see yourself doing anything else, do it. I often dream of my old job and wonder why I left a six figure income for med school (which I'd describe as signing up for voluntary torture), but I really want to do this. I would be happy returning to my old job if I fail out, but only at that point.

My first semester of medical school has been a bit of a disaster because I basically didn't do the above. If I could do it all over, I'd pick the other school, move to the state a month in advance, come up with study strategies that work, buy a better car and live alone. If you do these things, you are destined to have a great transition into the right school for you. Good luck!

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#10 seems to be said over and over. Its tough though to kick the urge to go this route even after trying various careers. I wonder if its one of those things where you don't really know till your doing it. Just a heads up, if you wanted to jump ship, its okay...its still early and your loans are manageable....however, if you continue another semester or two then there is no looking back. This thread has great potential and will be interesting to follow as the nontrads give other nontrad hopefuls advice.
 
Sadly, yes, it's one of those things that you won't know if it's for you are not for you until you get there (I probably shadowed more, volunteered in hospitals more and have been around doctors more than most on sdn... granted, the basic sciences are a different ballgame). I had blinders on and focused on getting in and was not really prepared for what hit me once I was in. I was always told getting in is the hard part, but getting through it is much harder. That said, I think school choice played some factor (sad since I had multiple schools to choose from and one I would have picked in a heartbeat now that I understand medical school, but really didn't have solid advice on how to pick from the schools I was admitted to... I went solely on location). The school I go to is perfect in many ways, but it lacks a strong support system for non-trads and it has way too many other activities that don't give me enough time to study in a day.

Thankfully, I was never in this for the money. I didn't need loans and I can abandon ship several semesters from now with no debt (only the financial loss and the remorse that I took the seat away from someone that may have deserved it more than me). I was going to add the following a point, but decided not to originally: many of my classmates are very excited about the future income potential and remind themselves this will be worthwhile because of the lifestyle they can live in the future. This was never the case for me. I am mostly excited about practicing as a doctor and helping people. At best, I'd break even or do very slightly better financially as a physician.


#10 seems to be said over and over. Its tough though to kick the urge to go this route even after trying various careers. I wonder if its one of those things where you don't really know till your doing it. Just a heads up, if you wanted to jump ship, its okay...its still early and your loans are manageable....however, if you continue another semester or two then there is no looking back. This thread has great potential and will be interesting to follow as the nontrads give other nontrad hopefuls advice.
 
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Sadly, yes, it's one of those things that you won't know if it's for you are not for you until you get there (I probably shadowed more, volunteered in hospitals more and have been around doctors more than most on sdn... granted, the basic sciences are a different ballgame). I had blinders on and focused on getting in and was not really prepared for what hit me once I was in. I was always told getting in is the hard part, but getting through it is much harder. That said, I think school choice played some factor (sad since I had multiple schools to choose from and one I would have picked in a heartbeat now that I understand medical school, but really didn't have solid advice on how to pick from the schools I was admitted to... I went solely on location). The school I go to is perfect in many ways, but it lacks a strong support system for non-trads and it has way too many other activities that don't give me enough time to study in a day.

Sadly, a lot of students in your shoes would make the same choice, thinking "Miami! Nice beach! Hot babes in bikinis all year long!" I don't think most students really know what the word "fit" means until they put some time into self-reflection.
 
@mspeedwagon

This is a great service that you are providing in sharing what you have learned. Thank you. I believe many go through this, get over the hump in perhaps 3rd or 4th year, and then get into another whole lengthy and bumpy grind in the first year or so of residency. IMHO, if a person is to-the-core into medicine--I mean, way deeper than the superficial BS--they will usually get over the residency humps and be happy in their choice of medicine.

Best regards.
 
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@mspeedwagon
Excellent post! Thanks! Great addition to all the hard work by @QofQuimica to support our community. I guess I will be following in your footsteps at some point... I would assume that a majority of Non-trads are not in this for the money, ecause we know there are many easier ways to make more. Was your previous career non-biomed? Contrary to SDN advice, I am loading up on 4 upper level bio courses the first half semester before matriculation to see what chug+vomit (and hope something sticks) strategy works best for me.
A few more questions mostly related to your no. 9:
1) Did you own a home? If so what did you do with it and when?
2) What did you do with your 401(k) from work? How about the HSA? Did you enroll in Obamacare or take the university insurance? Did you open a 529? How did FAFSA work out? How best to plan finances? No one wants to burn all their savings if there are other options..
 
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Haha... I'm sure a lot of people may have chosen the school I got to for that reasons you mentioned. Hot babes weren't on my consideration list. Direct flights home, weekly tests (which turned out not to be such a good thing) and good weather (though it's more humid than I thought) were though.

Honestly, I think a lot of the problem is that I did not know how to evaluate a school beyond cost and location (seemed from sdn these were the main considerations and they might be for traditional students). Knowing what I know now I would have spent a lot more time studying the curriculum and expectations of each school and learn which one has the most resources for non-trads (things like good note-taking service (we don't have one), a deceleration option and learning assessments if needed). This far outweighs the cost differences (assuming you are paying sticker price... obviously is a school offers a huge scholarship that's another matter) and location imho.

Sadly, a lot of students in your shoes would make the same choice, thinking "Miami! Nice beach! Hot babes in bikinis all year long!" I don't think most students really know what the word "fit" means until they put some time into self-reflection.
 
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I had blinders on and focused on getting in and was not really prepared for what hit me once I was in. I was always told getting in is the hard part, but getting through it is much harder.

Possibly the most important point made in this thread. This is what so many applicants need to understand.


7) Don't only relax the summer before starting medical school (this was probably the worst advice I got from sdn). If you've been out of school a while (more than 2 or 3 and certainly if more than 5), I would actually go ahead and start reading science textbooks again (preferably in subjects that you are about to cover in the first semester). Figure out how you learn best (auditory, visual, kinesthetic). Spent a lot of time coming up with a study strategy that will work for you. There is going to be a tremendous amount of material thrown at you and if you don't know how to process it panic attacks, anxiety and depression will ensue and you'll loose your purpose and start hating medical school and this is not a position you want to find yourself in.

I like your point about taking the time to find a learning style and study method that works- usually, people who want to pre-study frame it in terms of getting ahead on material, which is an unequivocally bad idea. Using the time to learn how you learn best, on the other hand, sounds reasonable. On the surface. However, as you've mentioned, you can't truly understand what you're in for until you're in it. I can easily picture someone writing a post where they lament spending all summer getting back into the habit of studying, or determining how they learn "best," only to find out their method isn't actually effective for med school volume and pace. I think most nontrads likely already have the self-discipline that you'll need for medical school studying, even if they haven't been in formal school for a while.
 
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However, as you've mentioned, you can't truly understand what you're in for until you're in it. I can easily picture someone writing a post where they lament spending all summer getting back into the habit of studying, or determining how they learn "best," only to find out their method isn't actually effective for med school volume and pace.

If loading up on biomed courses would not help fiuring out one's strategy, is there anyway better way to simulate the real environment before actually jumping into it?
 
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I personally feel having one hard semester is good, but be careful to make sure you don't tank your GPA because if you do and don't get in you'll be caught in a hard place if you suddenly show a declining grade trend. If you're already accepted, then go for it since as long as you pass you'll be ok. Undergrad is a better place to learn to learn such things than med school is.

As for the questions:

1) No, I didn't own a home. I would have sold my home had I owned one a month or two before medical school so as not to deal with any stress from finding renters and the like. Med school is going to induce a lot of stress... don't add to it.

2) I moved my 401k into a rollover account with the same brokerage. If you work for a company that is likely to be around for a while you always have the option to leave it as is, but rolling it over gives you more investment options.

I still have my HSA and use it to pay healthcare expenses. There is no charge for mine though this varies. I had a previous HSA that I had to pay a $3 a month fee to maintain after leaving the company. I rolled over that money into the newer HSA which does not have a fee. I would call up your provider and ask about fees if you leave your company and what your options are if there are fees.

I took the university health insurance since I have no major health issues and it's a pretty good deal (no co-pays and I can get seen at the university clinics). Obamacare would have limited me more, though I may have considered it if I had a family.

No 529 plan. I filled out FASFA, but declined all loans (I was told at a med school interview to always fill out FAFSA since if you don't you might not be eligible to receive some scholarships and the like). I viewed my first semester of med school as sort of a trial so paid for it in full. I knew I could afford the financial hit (though obviously not ideal) if things didn't work out.


@mspeedwagon
Excellent post! Thanks! Great addition to all the hard work by @QofQuimica to support our community. I guess I will be following in your footsteps at some point... I would assume that a majority of Non-trads are not in this for the money, ecause we know there are many easier ways to make more. Was your previous career non-biomed? Contrary to SDN advice, I am loading up on 4 upper level bio courses the first half semester before matriculation to see what chug+vomit strategy works best for me.
A few more questions mostly related to your no. 9:
1) Did you own a home? If so what did you do with it and when?
2) What did you do with your 401(k) from work? How about the HSA? Did you enroll in Obamacare or take the university insurance? Did you open a 529? How did FAFSA work out? How best to plan finances? No one wants to burn all their savings if there are other options..
 
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My intent was to say come up with a few strategies that may work (granted, it is indeed possible they may not work in med school). The way I studied in undergrad was to essentially come up with cliff notes of the main ideas of a lecture on a sheet of paper. Highlight the facts that I needed to memorize and then make flash card decks. Then keep doing this till I added all the details I thought necessary. As you can imagine, this takes a lot of time, which I found out very quickly just didn't work in med school and I didn't have a plan B. Additionally, there is a lot minute detail tested in med school that I had viewed as not that important in prepping for tests (and the exam was a bad time to learn that the professor felt differently).

I basically then found myself scrambling for new strategies as the material kept going on and on and unfortunately the option to hit "Pause" on med school while you try to figure stuff out doesn't exist. Once you're significantly behind in med school it's game over. I had the self-discipline and knew to put in the time, but I was scrambling to figure out how to best utilize it. A little preparation over the summer would have saved a lot of heartache.


I can easily picture someone writing a post where they lament spending all summer getting back into the habit of studying, or determining how they learn "best," only to find out their method isn't actually effective for med school volume and pace. I think most nontrads likely already have the self-discipline that you'll need for medical school studying, even if they haven't been in formal school for a while.
 
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I had the self-discipline and knew to put in the time, but I was scrambling to figure out how to best utilize it. A little preparation over the summer would have saved a lot of heartache.

That makes sense. I'm still not sure it would make a huge difference, even though with the benefit of hindsight it seems like it would have. For example, you know now what level of detail is necessary but would you have figured it out on your own? At least to a degree that it would've made a difference? Or would you instead have written a post about how you put in work that didn't seem to pay off anyway? There's no real way to know.

While I'm not sure the payoff would be all that great, I don't think it'd hurt to try. Definitely a better idea than spending 8 hours a day trying to master Anatomy ahead of time.
 
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OP, im curious as to what you did before starting med school and what ultimately helped you decide it was worth it?
 
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Basically a manager at a big company that you know well. Honestly, if you are asking what made me decide med school is worth it, I actually don't know that it is. By the end of the semester I could literally say to hell with this and go back to what I was doing before. But, I wanted to be a doctor and didn't have the opportunity earlier.

I would have never been satisfied without at least giving med school a go. It sucks that we can't just audition a semester of med school and decide because, as I alluded to, if I don't become a doctor it really sucks that I took a spot from someone that may have and the single semester of med school wasn't particularly cheap (especially with no degree to show for it).

OP, im curious as to what you did before starting med school and what ultimately helped you decide it was worth it?
 
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I don't think there is anything you can do to fully prepare for med school. I had a pretty good idea after watching my wife go through it, but it still hits harder when you go through it yourself. The biggest issue is study approach. You will change your approach to study several times before you finally figure it out. Part of it is being able to manage the large amounts of information and the other is figuring out how best you can retain it.

#10 is definitely spot on. I made good money before med school, but hated what I did. So glad I am here and will never go back even if they offered my 10 times the salary.
 
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Basically a manager at a big company that you know well. Honestly, if you are asking what made me decide med school is worth it, I actually don't know that it is. By the end of the semester I could literally say to hell with this and go back to what I was doing before. But, I wanted to be a doctor and didn't have the opportunity earlier.

I would have never been satisfied without at least giving med school a go. It sucks that we can't just audition a semester of med school and decide because, as I alluded to, if I don't become a doctor it really sucks that I took a spot from someone that may have and the single semester of med school wasn't particularly cheap (especially with no degree to show for it).


I was gonna say hedge fund mgr, but then you were only somewhere around six figures, which would be early salary going down the HFM path, so.. .

Could you imagine? I've heard of MDs going into HFM, but not the other way around.

I am glad to hear that things seem a bit better for you. :)
 
My intent was to say come up with a few strategies that may work (granted, it is indeed possible they may not work in med school). The way I studied in undergrad was to essentially come up with cliff notes of the main ideas of a lecture on a sheet of paper. Highlight the facts that I needed to memorize and then make flash card decks. Then keep doing this till I added all the details I thought necessary. As you can imagine, this takes a lot of time, which I found out very quickly just didn't work in med school and I didn't have a plan B. Additionally, there is a lot minute detail tested in med school that I had viewed as not that important in prepping for tests (and the exam was a bad time to learn that the professor felt differently).

I basically then found myself scrambling for new strategies as the material kept going on and on and unfortunately the option to hit "Pause" on med school while you try to figure stuff out doesn't exist. Once you're significantly behind in med school it's game over. I had the self-discipline and knew to put in the time, but I was scrambling to figure out how to best utilize it. A little preparation over the summer would have saved a lot of heartache.
Hey thanks for writing all this. I'd love to know what strategies have worked for you, though, and how you found them..?
 
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This is a great thread...

We had mandatory attendance rule at my school until most of the students (myself included) decided not to show up for class; administration notice grades get better, they drop that mandatory attendance rule... Having time to study is key in med school because the volume of material is enormous...

Attendance rule should be on anyone's top consideration whenever choosing a med school (assuming you have multiple acceptance)... I was a below average student in MS1, and suddenly I am above average (so far) in MS2 because I have more time to study...
 
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I concur except:

5. Pre-reading isn't necessary. Heck, profs aren't even necessary except when they drop hints about their test. But making multiple passes through the material is key. If you don't comprehend something, move on. Maybe you'll get it on the 3rd pass, maybe you won't, maybe it won't even be on your test, maybe you'll finally understand it 2 semesters or 2 years later. Just keep moving because the train isn't stopping.

7. Spend the summer chillaxing. Free time... is... awesome.

10. It's common to feel like medicine is a mistake, especially at transition/torture points like 1st year, Steps, internship, etc. Just keep at it. A 1st year student is a child whining about how tedious and mundane it is to memorize multiplication tables. They don't have the context to understand that it's one of the many tedious building blocks that leads to greater things like launching a rocket into space. Some material is quite relevant, and even the non-relevant material is important because it begins the process of teaching you to think like a doctor.

If you like being a lifelong learner, working with patients, and can deal with difficult people and bureaucracy, then medicine can work out if you choose your specialty wisely. That means doing due diligence on your specialty and knowing how much BS you can tolerate. For example, you may have a "passion" for women's health and delivering babies, but might not have the tolerance to deal with the stress of always having a couple lawsuits hanging over you for years at a time or driving to the hospital at 3 am several times a week for the rest of your working life to deal with women screaming and cursing at you.
 
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Thankfully, I was never in this for the money. I was going to add the following a point, but decided not to originally: many of my classmates are very excited about the future income potential and remind themselves this will be worthwhile because of the lifestyle they can live in the future. This was never the case for me. I am mostly excited about practicing as a doctor and helping people. At best, I'd break even or do very slightly better financially as a physician.

Ironically, kids who are in med school solely for money, and wind up in things like ortho or derm, end up with lots of grateful patients, in addition to money.

Meanwhile, the people motivated to go med school primarily to "help people" are the ones most likely to burn out. It would suck to go through all the sacrifices only to find out you're just a government/insurance company employee and most patients don't appreciate your help. They just want you to give them their pain meds and do whatever it is that will get them back to being able to smoke, drink, stuff their faces, and antagonize family members.
 
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I agree with lots of slow passes through the material (each time picking up on more and more detail). Also, study to the professor. Find out from M2s or old tests (if you have access to the latter) what the professor likes to test. Quizlets that may be shared by your classmates are great as is walking through the material with someone else after you each have had several passes. But expect to spend five to six hours a day studying (outside of classes).

While I agree with don't get hung up on things, I do think you should make sure you understand key concepts. This was a mistake I made in one of my first classes. I skimmed by a big concept that I didn't understand. The next several lecture built on the concept. By the time I understood it, I was several lectures behind and damn near had an anxiety attack.

Hey thanks for writing all this. I'd love to know what strategies have worked for you, though, and how you found them..?
 
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2 things I'll add to the non-trad-wish-I-woulda list:

1. 21-24 year olds are outright annoying to be around, until they aren't. I bailed on a couple of study groups that had unfunny uninteresting chatterboxes taking up all the time. But the #1 thing I would have done differently is commit to 2-4 other students who are pragmatic and can focus on what matters. What matters? RECALL. A functional study group is measured by exam scores which are only superior if recall is superior. So the group has to be dedicated to maximizing recall for the group. No giving lectures or creating quizzes. Jimmy get up and draw the damn coagulation cascade. Yes right now. What did he miss. What did WE miss. Next!

2. For schools that use shelf exams, and probably for schools that don't use shelf exams, the material is extremely standardized. Yes I want to be inspired by a fabulous microbiology lecture but I NEED to be solid on what bugs a macrolide works on AND WHY - and whether a virus is ds or ss or what. There is no need to be confused about what to be studying first. Use First Aid as your high level syllabus, and build up your daily dose from Firecracker, Pathoma, Red Robbins, and whatever else is proven and/or getting your classmates points on exams. Memorizing powerpoints & taking lecture notes rely on an assumption that the lecturer has any effing clue what's on Step 1. And the crappier your school, the less likely your faculty is measuring exam question quality. Yes you should want to know things that aren't on Step 1. But read up on those things AFTER you are on top of the known standard content. Have a vibrant discussion on the character of the cell membrane AFTER you are done with your daily diet.

My school went to 100% shelf exams when a new academic adviser actually started asking questions and paying attention and making charts. Question banks are THE PRIMARY LEARNING SOURCE for success. Yes. Learn the material by going straight to the quiz. Then get with your group and drill baby drill.

[edited:] Also understand 5 pancakes. Make it your religion.

Best of luck to you.
 
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6) Be military with time. Plan life/study schedule and stick to it as best as you can.
Oh if only you knew how much you don't want to be military with time. Didn't you know we invented Hurry Up And Wait?
 
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1) No, I didn't own a home. I would have sold my home had I owned one a month or two before medical school so as not to deal with any stress from finding renters and the like. Med school is going to induce a lot of stress... don't add to it.

2) I moved my 401k into a rollover account with the same brokerage. If you work for a company that is likely to be around for a while you always have the option to leave it as is, but rolling it over gives you more investment options.
1. Easier said than done, specially if houses around you are comping low because of short sellers and foreclosures. Your valuation might be well below the running payoff amount for your mortgage. It takes years for neighborhood valuations to recover.
2. This is good advice. What they might not tell you is that if you don't roll your 401K out to an IRA (not a Roth) you start paying ridiculous 401K account fees that your company was paying all along. I rolled mine into a managed account.
 
1. Easier said than done, specially if houses around you are comping low because of short sellers and foreclosures. Your valuation might be well below the running payoff amount for your mortgage. It takes years for neighborhood valuations to recover.
2. This is good advice. What they might not tell you is that if you don't roll your 401K out to an IRA (not a Roth) you start paying ridiculous 401K account fees that your company was paying all along. I rolled mine into a managed account.

Why not convert to Roth after a year? When you have zero income and are in the lowest tax bracket that you will ever be (I am assuming tax rates will never go down), the tax liability will very minimal.

2 things I'll add to the non-trad-wish-I-woulda list:

1. 21-24 year olds are outright annoying to be around, until they aren't. I bailed on a couple of study groups that had unfunny uninteresting chatterboxes taking up all the time. But the #1 thing I would have done differently is commit to 2-4 other students who are pragmatic and can focus on what matters. What matters? RECALL. A functional study group is measured by exam scores which are only superior if recall is superior. So the group has to be dedicated to maximizing recall for the group. No giving lectures or creating quizzes. Jimmy get up and draw the damn coagulation cascade. Yes right now. What did he miss. What did WE miss. Next!

2. For schools that use shelf exams, and probably for schools that don't use shelf exams, the material is extremely standardized. Yes I want to be inspired by a fabulous microbiology lecture but I NEED to be solid on what bugs a macrolide works on AND WHY - and whether a virus is ds or ss or what. There is no need to be confused about what to be studying first. Use First Aid as your high level syllabus, and build up your daily dose from Firecracker, Pathoma, Red Robbins, and whatever else is proven and/or getting your classmates points on exams. Memorizing powerpoints & taking lecture notes rely on an assumption that the lecturer has any effing clue what's on Step 1. And the crappier your school, the less likely your faculty is measuring exam question quality. Yes you should want to know things that aren't on Step 1. But read up on those things AFTER you are on top of the known standard content. Have a vibrant discussion on the character of the cell membrane AFTER you are done with your daily diet.

My school went to 100% shelf exams when a new academic adviser actually started asking questions and paying attention and making charts. Question banks are THE PRIMARY LEARNING SOURCE for success. Yes. Learn the material by going straight to the quiz. Then get with your group and drill baby drill.

[edited:] Also understand 5 pancakes. Make it your religion.

Best of luck to you.

You are a wonderful resource! Thank you!
This is all going to be new to me having never participated in group study in college (although lots of TBL experience outside of it) and never had to strictly memorize anything since multiplication tables... fun!
 
I would have never been satisfied without at least giving med school a go. [U said:
It sucks that we can't just audition a semester of med school [/U]and decide because, as I alluded to, if I don't become a doctor it really sucks that I took a spot from someone that may have and the single semester of med school wasn't particularly cheap (especially with no degree to show for it).

@mspeedwagon
I've heard of some 1-year post-bac cert programs that are basically a "med school light" audition for the real thing. After your med school experience, do you think a program like this would be a good idea for a non-trad?
 
So are you staying in or jumping ship?
 
Yes. Seeing some of the comments remember that my advice is specific to non-trads that have been out of school several years (haven't seen a bio book except for the MCAT in recent years). I think a med school light would have helped tremendously. Similarly, there are schools that let you take one class over the summer (normally anatomy) and then have a lighter load your first semester. Knowing what I do now, I would hunt down and apply to such schools.

@mspeedwagon
I've heard of some 1-year post-bac cert programs that are basically a "med school light" audition for the real thing. After your med school experience, do you think a program like this would be a good idea for a non-trad?
 
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Yes. Seeing some of the comments remember that my advice is specific to non-trads that have been out of school several years (haven't seen a bio book except for the MCAT in recent years). I think a med school light would have helped tremendously. Similarly, there are schools that let you take one class over the summer (normally anatomy) and then have a lighter load your first semester. Knowing what I do now, I would hunt down and apply to such schools.

Thanks so much for your feedback! I definitely fit the description of your intended audience, having earned my BS in 2002. Although recently I've re-taken a few basic science pre-reqs to boost my GPA, I know med school will be a lot tougher, so I'm leaning towards also doing the 1-year post bac cert to prepare. I was intrigued by your comment about some med schools letting you take anatomy in the summer to lighten the load... I will research this further, but could you tell me which schools you know of that do this?
 
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There were several when I was looking, but the only one that immediately comes to mind is SUNY Upstate in Syracuse, NY.

Thanks so much for your feedback! I definitely fit the description of your intended audience, having earned my BS in 2002. Although recently I've re-taken a few basic science pre-reqs to boost my GPA, I know med school will be a lot tougher, so I'm leaning towards also doing the 1-year post bac cert to prepare. I was intrigued by your comment about some med schools letting you take anatomy in the summer to lighten the load... I will research this further, but could you tell me which schools you know of that do this?
 
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I was intrigued by your comment about some med schools letting you take anatomy in the summer to lighten the load... I will research this further, but could you tell me which schools you know of that do this?
This. I am infinitely curious as well
 
Why not convert to Roth after a year? When you have zero income and are in the lowest tax bracket that you will ever be (I am assuming tax rates will never go down), the tax liability will very minimal.
The max annual contribution on a Roth is small, like 4K/yr max. Regular rollover IRA's are better for moving a good sized 401K. The income is higher (Roth growth sucks) and the penalties are lower when taking out money for living expenses (10% of the withdrawal) and there are no penalties for education related withdrawals. That's the plan I'm on for augmenting my Post 9/11 GI Bill financial needs while I finish my undergrad and hopefully move on to medical school.

I'm not an expert, that's just what I'm doing with my fidelity managed account team. You should talk to your rep.
 
1) agreed but you also could end up benefitting from some of the non-core requirements and really don't know what you are looking at before med school. You definitely want as little mandatory attendance as possible so you can be flexible with your learning style. Once a week testing is the pits but it's not the worst ever. You have more chances to redeem yourself than if you had a midterm and a final.

2) extracurriculars are my favorite part of school :) but yeah you need to study first and foremost. Boards?? As an M1 focus on doing well in class. If you are easily killing it add in boards review. But really, you know nothing yet if you have a traditional curriculum.

3) Med school is often about teaching yourself and culling material from a variety of resources. You are going to need this skill for the rest of your life. A couple bad professors won't sink you.

4) Agreed, if you go to class you need to read the material beforehand or you are getting nothing out of it. Might as well watch it on video later.

7) disagree here. Relax the summer before. There is not much you can do to get ready for the firehose of info except to uh, do your first year of med school in a masters program at a medical school (not recommending that unless you need it to get in). Come in well rested and be prepared for the emotional onslaught. Also be prepared to get help and to change your study habits quickly.

9) yep yep. Get your ideal living situation in order and get yourself set up weeks before classes start. take care of any adult life nonsense so you can go full speed ahead when classes start.

10) "If you see yourself doing anything else, do it." This will always be true. It's a really long hard road and you don't want to start it unless you are sure.
 
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Hi All, I started medical school this fall and learned a few things that I wish to share with non-trads that I wish I knew when applying. I got some pretty good advice from sdn and some bad advice. Here are things that I would have done differently if I was applying to schools now.

1) When evaluating schools get the schedule and see how much study time you are given. Look for schools with the least amount of class and greatest number of free hours to study. If you are in school from 8 a.m. - 5 p.m., you're basically left with 5 hrs or so (at most) to study and this may not be enough if you have been out of school for a while. Also, try to find out if the school has a 5 year decelerated option (it's nice to know it exists if you need it), but don't ask about this at interviews.

2) In the same vain as number one, look for the least required extracurricular activities. Ideally no required physician shadowing, no forced trips before exams and the like (you want your first two years to be dedicated to doing well on your in-class exams and the boards).

3) Teaching quality and recorded lectures are very important as are access to old exams. This is really hard to evaluate. I asked about this at the interview for every school, but I didn't get an honest answer. Go around and ask students and search for reviews (though these may be hard to find... unlike in undergrad where you have whole websites dedicated to reviewing profs). The first year teachers I've had to deal with range from mediocre to really bad. Also, we had a lot of issues with recorded lectures, which has sucked given that I really needed to re-watch some of them.

4) Don't waste your time in-class if you aren't learning. This was a huge mistake I made. I went to class to get exposure to material... it's a complete waste. Either read up before the lecture so you can optimize learning in-class or watch the recorded lecture so you can pause it if you don't understand something.

5) Prepare for every class. You should at least have the basics of what is going to be covered today. If you don't you are going to get lost pretty quickly and are again wasting your time.

6) Be military with time. Plan life/study schedule and stick to it as best as you can.

7) Don't only relax the summer before starting medical school (this was probably the worst advice I got from sdn). If you've been out of school a while (more than 2 or 3 and certainly if more than 5), I would actually go ahead and start reading science textbooks again (preferably in subjects that you are about to cover in the first semester). Figure out how you learn best (auditory, visual, kinesthetic). Spent a lot of time coming up with a study strategy that will work for you. There is going to be a tremendous amount of material thrown at you and if you don't know how to process it panic attacks, anxiety and depression will ensue and you'll loose your purpose and start hating medical school and this is not a position you want to find yourself in.

8) The MCAT does not prepare you at all for medical school. A misconception that I had is that some of the material from the MCAT would help carry me through my first year of medical school. All those hours put in for the MCAT are basically just a checkbox. I hope one day the MCAT serves as a prep test for med school. In a little over half a semester of med school, the only thing that has overlapped with MCAT material is Ohm's law (V=IR was mentioned in cellular physiology), skeletal muscle contraction and action potential generation.

9) If you are going to medical school in a different state, move at least a month before. If you need a car, get a certified pre-owned one with a warranty. And, ideally, live alone or, if you have to, another medical student (assuming you aren't married of course... if you are, then live with your significant other).

10) If you see yourself doing anything else, do it. I often dream of my old job and wonder why I left a six figure income for med school (which I'd describe as signing up for voluntary torture), but I really want to do this. I would be happy returning to my old job if I fail out, but only at that point.

My first semester of medical school has been a bit of a disaster because I basically didn't do the above. If I could do it all over, I'd pick the other school, move to the state a month in advance, come up with study strategies that work, buy a better car and live alone. If you do these things, you are destined to have a great transition into the right school for you. Good luck!
I strongly disagree with #7, and #4 is only good advice if you are a self motivator -- have seen that go horribly wrong for the people that are prone to procrastinate and dally and need the structure of classes and a schedule.
 
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Regarding #4 I think it will vary a little with school. The school I go to has class from 8 a.m. - 5 p.m. If you don't learn anything in class you are hosed. My SO went to a school where they got out at 1 p.m. on most days (except for the day they had anatomy lab). I think in that case you'd be fine going to class for exposure.

I realize a lot of people on sdn will disagree with #7. But, if you haven't seen any form of a science book in 5 yrs (and have been out of the academic world), refreshing your memory on how to best learn science to me is time well spent. But, I know a lot will disagree. I don't think it hurts much to come up with some potential learning strategies though.

I strongly disagree with #7, and #4 is only good advice if you are a self motivator -- have seen that go horribly wrong for the people that are prone to procrastinate and dally and need the structure of classes and a schedule.
 
I will have to say that I couldn't more strongly disagree with below. Doing poorly or failing a lot of classes in a row can really sink and demotivate you. I guess the timing of being exposed to these professors might be more critical. When they are your first three in med school teaching core science classes it can be really bad, especially is all their tests are then in the same week.

A couple bad professors won't sink you.
 
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I will have to say that I couldn't more strongly disagree with below. Doing poorly or failing a lot of classes in a row can really sink and demotivate you. I guess the timing of being exposed to these professors might be more critical. When they are your first three in med school teaching core science classes it can be really bad, especially is all their tests are then in the same week.
It would be a huge shame if "bad professors" are why you're not having a good time. Not because the professors are bad, but because you're letting them kill you.

You can't equate a bad professor with your bad performance. The material is extremely standardized. There are a whole lot more variables than "bad professor".

I stopped going to lectures because more often than not, the lecturers sucked, there was no actual teaching (vs reading), the material was not organized, the number of slides was always 3x more than they could get done in the hour, the microphone was garbage with dead batteries half the time, and I wasn't going to be held hostage to the trick exam question(s) that you only know the answer to if you went to class. Thankfully we had video streaming that we could run at 1.5x. But the content in those lectures is always, always secondary to standard materials. If a study method doesn't work for you, try another, keep trying. You can literally use First Aid as a high level syllabus of what you're supposed to be learning. Get that material down first.

Honestly it sounds like you don't talk to your classmates at all. That would be incredibly isolating and awful, if so.
 
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Addendum: M1 year sucked bad. M2 year was the hardest thing I've ever survived (and trust me, I've survived serious other stuff). I don't honestly think I could have comprehended any advice like what's in this thread before I was already in over my head. (But we keep trying with these wish-I'd-have-known threads.) I struggled. The whole time. Was not fun. WAS NOT FUN. While I was studying for Step 1 I was in a low grad panic attack for a whole month and was looking at job openings and apartments back home. DID NOT LIKE.

I totally support my classmates who walked away from it, M1 year, M2 year, M3 year and holy crap one even walked away this M4 year. It's totally okay in my book to just decide you're not willing to spend any more of your life being that miserable. You don't even have to bring money into it. Just deciding to not be miserable is enough.

But my point, in this post and the one before it, is that it would be dumb to give up because the professors can't teach. 2 years from now, if you make it through, you will roll your eyes at the whole didactic process so hard you'll break your skull. You'll have your own system of learning that you use every day and is still evolving. And 2 years from now you'll be half done, you'll be on the wards, you'll be inching toward actually getting to DO STUFF.

BTW the doing of stuff, like working with patients and delivering babies and holding a retractor while the real doctors are literally elbow deep in the abdominal cavity trying to pull a tumor out between the IVC & aorta and YOU are the one that remembers the patient started heparin yesterday? REALLY FUN. REALLY FUN. The getting of residency interview invites? I'd argue it's more intensely pleasurable than getting med school invites. It's much more personally relevant.

But I digress. Carry on.
 
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I should mention that I definitely talk to my classmates and study with them and we ALL failed the exams... over 150+ students did (the class average was failing on two of the three exams. It was only a few points above passing on the third). So yeah, either a) the exams are too hard, b) we are all stupid or (and I think this is the actual problem) c) the scheduling is really bad forcing us on mandatory trips and the like that prevent us from studying right before exams. We already get out pretty late as it is (and there have been issues with lecture recordings so you can't count on these). Add three more hours of mandatory things and you cant even start studying till pretty late.

And, yes, I agree with what you said about getting the material down first. But a lot of professors at the school I go to like to test random things they teach not found in standardized material (there is literally no mention of some of the things that we were tested on in First Aid or BRS physiology... honestly, if you studied with these resources you would have failed our physio exam. The professor randomly cut and paste very tiny details from his note packet into confusing multiple choice questions... what type of fish produces a certain type of toxin for example... probably why we, as a class, failed).

A lot of this will vary from school to school. My SO other went to another school and studied straight of BRS Physio and First Aid and aced everything. She looked at our questions and said they were complete crap and mostly worthless since it just tested random things that the prof wanted to test and not what was important to know longer-term. I downloaded an old exam from the same block from her school and did pretty well (it was basically material from BRS physio tested and more along the lines of what I was expecting our test to look like). Some of our later profs are better and their material does mimic the review books.


It would be a huge shame if "bad professors" are why you're not having a good time. Not because the professors are bad, but because you're letting them kill you.

You can't equate a bad professor with your bad performance. The material is extremely standardized. There are a whole lot more variables than "bad professor".

I stopped going to lectures because more often than not, the lecturers sucked, there was no actual teaching (vs reading), the material was not organized, the number of slides was always 3x more than they could get done in the hour, the microphone was garbage with dead batteries half the time, and I wasn't going to be held hostage to the trick exam question(s) that you only know the answer to if you went to class. Thankfully we had video streaming that we could run at 1.5x. But the content in those lectures is always, always secondary to standard materials. If a study method doesn't work for you, try another, keep trying. You can literally use First Aid as a high level syllabus of what you're supposed to be learning. Get that material down first.

Honestly it sounds like you don't talk to your classmates at all. That would be incredibly isolating and awful, if so.
 
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Hmm. I might quit a school that bad. It's not impossible to transfer...

A test that everybody fails should be thrown out. Along with the course director.
 
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Alas, at this point my med school transcript would have barely passing / failing grades in science classes (similar to most of my classmates) so I don't think another school would touch me (back to why I wrote about now knowing how to evaluate a school). A lot of M2s have said they failed a lot of first semester exams and were able to pull through so that leaves me with some hope.

I agree with you and think all of the first three profs we had should be thrown out given that at least 50%, and often more, of the class failed their exams. The passing ratios have gotten better with some subsequent professors.


Hmm. I might quit a school that bad. It's not impossible to transfer...

A test that everybody fails should be thrown out. Along with the course director.
 
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First year is a poop show - and that is putting it mildly. Nothing can prepare you for the onslaught.
I will say that it does get better. Second year you know what is coming and you know what to do and how to prepare.
And then third year is better because well you are not behind a book or in a classroom all day and it is glorious
And fourth year is spectacular

Then you are an intern and basically the poop hits the fan again - putting it nicely. Still an exceptionally steep learning curve and many tears of frustration. But again second year is so much better.

Hang in there it does get better I promise
I can not tell you how many times I have thought about quitting because it just gets to be too much sometimes
It sounds like your school places a lot of extra expectations on you that are not helping
 
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I never thought I would be writing papers and having group presentation every 2-3 weeks in med school... Some schools put a lot unnecessary burden on students.
 
Writing papers, presentations etc. I was definitely expecting and they are common to almost all schools. My gf went to an MD school had to do them and I am at DO school and have to do them.

I was talking more along the lines of driving to a hospital over an hour each way to shadow a physician for several hours. Or things that are not academic related that take away from precious study time (think forced trips to far away places) or classes that don't add to med school (bioethics and all I'm cool with as I can see the value added).

I never thought I would be writing papers and having group presentation every 2-3 weeks in med school... Some schools put a lot unnecessary burden on students.
 
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The max annual contribution on a Roth is small, like 4K/yr max. Regular rollover IRA's are better for moving a good sized 401K. The income is higher (Roth growth sucks) and the penalties are lower when taking out money for living expenses (10% of the withdrawal) and there are no penalties for education related withdrawals. That's the plan I'm on for augmenting my Post 9/11 GI Bill financial needs while I finish my undergrad and hopefully move on to medical school.

I'm not an expert, that's just what I'm doing with my fidelity managed account team. You should talk to your rep.

Sorry, don't mean to derail the thread, but AmICrazy's suggestion is actually a very wise one. There is no limit on Roth conversions and it may be a very smart thing to do for a med student with no other earned income in a calendar year.
 
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I should mention that I definitely talk to my classmates and study with them and we ALL failed the exams... over 150+ students did (the class average was failing on two of the three exams. It was only a few points above passing on the third). So yeah, either a) the exams are too hard, b) we are all stupid or (and I think this is the actual problem) c) the scheduling is really bad forcing us on mandatory trips and the like that prevent us from studying right before exams. We already get out pretty late as it is (and there have been issues with lecture recordings so you can't count on these). Add three more hours of mandatory things and you cant even start studying till pretty late.

And, yes, I agree with what you said about getting the material down first. But a lot of professors at the school I go to like to test random things they teach not found in standardized material (there is literally no mention of some of the things that we were tested on in First Aid or BRS physiology... honestly, if you studied with these resources you would have failed our physio exam. The professor randomly cut and paste very tiny details from his note packet into confusing multiple choice questions... what type of fish produces a certain type of toxin for example... probably why we, as a class, failed).

A lot of this will vary from school to school. My SO other went to another school and studied straight of BRS Physio and First Aid and aced everything. She looked at our questions and said they were complete crap and mostly worthless since it just tested random things that the prof wanted to test and not what was important to know longer-term. I downloaded an old exam from the same block from her school and did pretty well (it was basically material from BRS physio tested and more along the lines of what I was expecting our test to look like). Some of our later profs are better and their material does mimic the review books.

Hmm. I might quit a school that bad. It's not impossible to transfer...

A test that everybody fails should be thrown out. Along with the course director.

How was a test that 150+ students failed counted??? At the very least, shouldn't a certain number of questions be thrown out, which would [hopefully] raise the average? Your classes aren't curved? Was anyone in the administration/faculty notified of this???
 
Question are only thrown out if they are fundamentally faulty. The answers were technically in the note packet so no questions got thrown out.

The class is curved at the end. I personally have always hated curves b/c tests should be written to be passable, but that's personal taste. Entirely possible there will be a 15 pt curve (I'm in my first semester so not too familiar with this).

The administration had a panic attack because 150 people now need tutoring for failing and there aren't that many tutors available.

How was a test that 150+ students failed counted??? At the very least, shouldn't a certain number of questions be thrown out, which would [hopefully] raise the average? Your classes aren't curved? Was anyone in the administration/faculty notified of this???
 
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Alas, at this point my med school transcript would have barely passing / failing grades in science classes (similar to most of my classmates) so I don't think another school would touch me (back to why I wrote about now knowing how to evaluate a school). A lot of M2s have said they failed a lot of first semester exams and were able to pull through so that leaves me with some hope.

I agree with you and think all of the first three profs we had should be thrown out given that at least 50%, and often more, of the class failed their exams. The passing ratios have gotten better with some subsequent professors.


Holy crap that sucks.
 
Question are only thrown out if they are fundamentally faulty. The answers were technically in the note packet so no questions got thrown out.

The class is curved at the end. I personally have always hated curves b/c tests should be written to be passable, but that's personal taste. Entirely possible there will be a 15 pt curve (I'm in my first semester so not too familiar with this).

The administration had a panic attack because 150 people now need tutoring for failing and there aren't that many tutors available.


This is bad... I mean really, wow kind of bad. And all these outside things you are told to do are mandatory? All 150 people need to write a group letter of dire concern.

I fear that I am starting to strongly dislike your school.
 
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