What I wish I knew before starting medical school (non-trad focused)

[mspeedwagon]

Good luck to you. I think I would never have been satisfied as a PA if I were straight out of college. I also likely wouldn't have been satisfied as a PA without some med school experience. That said, once you cross 30, it's much harder to sign-up for a soul sucking experience and the grass does look greener.

And, my SO's positive attitude got me this far. Honestly, if I listened to most of my other friends, I would have quit a long time ago since few of my physician peers think this route was worth it for them.

I just interviewed at mspeedwagon's state's other DO school's northern cousin this past Friday and there were 2 PA's going for DO, one of whom I got to know pretty well. So even if you did become a PA, I'm sure there'd still be that itch to give it a try.

Maybe borrow some of your SO's positive mentality?

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[DrMidlife]

look up "concept mapping". it's all the rage here. i'm sure there's youtubes. it takes discipline & commitment to produce but then you get to be smug and competent in the weeks & months to come.

it's such a thing @ my school that people use enormous sketch pads & buy enormous backpacks. and don't get me started on writing implements, straightedges, etc. with great smugness & competence comes great retail therapy.

 

[rilte4]

look up "concept mapping". it's all the rage here. i'm sure there's youtubes. it takes discipline & commitment to produce but then you get to be smug and competent in the weeks & months to come.

it's such a thing @ my school that people use enormous sketch pads & buy enormous backpacks. and don't get me started on writing implements, straightedges, etc. with great smugness & competence comes great retail therapy.

+ miniature whiteboards

 

[Gauss44]

What are some of the best classes or subjects to study to prepare for medical school curriculum and step 1?

 

[Gfliptastic]

I think there is plenty to be said for pre-studying for medical school as a non-trad who has been out for a while. Maybe with this, one would not be as stressed out, especially brushing up on the sciences. Surely if M1 is as hard as people say it is because of all the information thrown at you, shouldn't it make sense to get a head start if you can. In my opinion, having a couple months on the beach then a year of hell is not worth it. I would rather have a couple months of gentle relaxed studying. Rivals every holiday I can think of. Heck if you must, take an Anatomy book with you on your beach holiday.I am a nerd though who has always enjoyed reading so take this with a grain of salt. All the talk here of 'do not pre-study' followed by 'M1 is a beast' just does not compute. Am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong, for a traditional student, this makes absolute sense, but I think we old farts need more time to perfect our study habits and the first year of M1 does not sound like the time to do it. Maybe the little head start will give us just the wiggle-room we need to fall without failing while we learn.

Now I know I am not yet a medical student so I will probably get a good knocking from med students who know everything but everyone is different. If you think pre-studying will help you, I say go for it. I know if I had not pre-studied before starting this semester of pre-reqs I would be failing out of my Biology, Physics and Chemistry courses. It had been more than 12 years since I did these courses in high school and I couldn't even remember my table of elements. Yes I could have learnt them all during the semester but if I had, I would have achieved a substandard score compared to the young hotshots right out of high school with this fresh on their minds.

Edit: Spelling correction

I would not endorse this. It is so much the material, but if the analogy of trying to carry all of the information in a leaky bucket makes sense, that's what pre-clinical medicine is. Because for all intents and purposes, you build almost NOTHING off of it once you get into the wards. And hence you lose it.

Very few people can handle the sheer volume of the material while actually retaining it. Anyone who has studied for Step 1 knows this. It's basically cram, reacquaint, cram cram cram and hope most of it sticks so that you can regurgitate all the information at the most appropriate times - relevant to the question. Retention is your worst enemy and best ally.

What is so funny is I knew a Pharm D who went to medical school, and you know what course he thought was difficult? PHARMACY!?! I've seen molecular biologist looks like idiots in molecular cell bio. Myself as a food scientist, I'd still getting twisted up w/ biochemistry. There are so many things being thrown at you that you have a tenuous grip on material and factoids you knew well before med school. This "leaky bucket" on top of your shoulders is NOT immune to forgetting s*** you knew like used to know like your own face. Every once in awhile, you'll find yourself forgetting your PIN number for your ATM card. No joke!

Just let it happen. It's been happening this way for years. And I can't understand how people continue to try to "game" the system. There's no slick way to pass the Steps. There's no slick way to pass Pathology. Or near. It's all pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and going balls to the wall insane. Getting immersed and "filthy" w/ it. It's only 2 years. Then you PURGE the F*** out of it. Don't waste all your energy trying to game the system. Trust me, if someone figured out how, we'd all know. Again, going back to my previous post, own up the fact that you aren't as special as you think you are once you start medical school. Tyler Durden just invited you to Fight Club, once you matriculate, space monkey.

Ask any attending doctor about the Krebs cycle. Which medium best grows listeria. How many residues cross the phospholipid bilayer of the insulin receptor. It's all useless pointless information. If you really want to be an uppity go-getter, believing you are going to be a doctor, study all the clinical crap. That's where you'll make your living and be a doctor. Not in which bug can utilize sorbitol.

 

[Gauss44]

Possibly the most important point made in this thread. This is what so many applicants need to understand.




I like your point about taking the time to find a learning style and study method that works- usually, people who want to pre-study frame it in terms of getting ahead on material, which is an unequivocally bad idea. Using the time to learn how you learn best, on the other hand, sounds reasonable. On the surface. However, as you've mentioned, you can't truly understand what you're in for until you're in it. I can easily picture someone writing a post where they lament spending all summer getting back into the habit of studying, or determining how they learn "best," only to find out their method isn't actually effective for med school volume and pace. I think most nontrads likely already have the self-discipline that you'll need for medical school studying, even if they haven't been in formal school for a while.

How can one determine if their study method is sound? For example, I know that I am an auditory learner, from experience, and learn best from listening and watching videos. I suspect that IF I can handle 25 credits at Harvard Extension of upper level science and math classes using this method that I am probably good to go.

 

[Gauss44]

I don't think there is anything you can do to fully prepare for med school. I had a pretty good idea after watching my wife go through it, but it still hits harder when you go through it yourself. The biggest issue is study approach. You will change your approach to study several times before you finally figure it out. Part of it is being able to manage the large amounts of information and the other is figuring out how best you can retain it.

#10 is definitely spot on. I made good money before med school, but hated what I did. So glad I am here and will never go back even if they offered my 10 times the salary.

Suggestions? What successful strategies have people tried?

I never thought I would be writing papers and having group presentation every 2-3 weeks in med school... Some schools put a lot unnecessary burden on students.

This is a great thread...

We had mandatory attendance rule at my school until most of the students (myself included) decided not to show up for class; administration notice grades get better, they drop that mandatory attendance rule... Having time to study is key in med school because the volume of material is enormous...

Attendance rule should be on anyone's top consideration whenever choosing a med school (assuming you have multiple acceptance)... I was a below average student in MS1, and suddenly I am above average (so far) in MS2 because I have more time to study...

Which schools have relaxed attendance policies or no attendance policy?

I never thought I would be writing papers and having group presentation every 2-3 weeks in med school... Some schools put a lot unnecessary burden on students.

Which schools do this? Which ones don't?

(Feel free to PM or reply on thread. I am trying to reduce the number of questions I have for individual schools.)

 

[mspeedwagon]

Yes. You're good to go. I think the fact that my point was targeted at non-trads that haven't seen a science book in 5 yrs aside from MCAT material was somehow missed. 25 credits of recent upper level science at Harvard, means you don't qualify for the target demographic .

Honestly, based on that fact, you'll be ok at any school... even with a lot of requirements, mandatory attendance and less study time since you have a strong foundation to build on. Many of these points were for non-trads that stepped away from academics for a while.

Get accepted (obviously most important), live alone and get a good reliable car are pretty much the only things applicable to you.

How can one determine if their study method is sound? For example, I know that I am an auditory learner, from experience, and learn best from listening and watching videos. I suspect that IF I can handle 25 credits at Harvard Extension of upper level science and math classes using this method that I am probably good to go.

 

[Gfliptastic]

Suggestions? What successful strategies have people tried?




Which schools have relaxed attendance policies or no attendance policy?

It's trial and error. You'll know after your first exam grade. And then you'll see where you did well (keep that method) and where you did not well (dump that method). It's a lot more involved in that, sometimes you'll try to see if you are a AM person, and do all of your studying before the sunsets. Or maybe you'll try to be a vampire and do all your hard core studying at night. Depends on the teaching delivery method too.

Most profs give you elaborate powerpoints and just read the slides to you (see it, hear it). But some other will give you bullet points and will talk a bunch. I had a pharm teacher who prepared like 6 slides for a 50 minute session, but talked an immense amount. So...her slides were mostly useless, but listening to her lectures was supreme. Then there are profs who suck at either, BUT they have amazing study packets. Filled w/ old questions they wrote. And you would notice the "theme" and how they like to ask questions. And you could basically NOT show up to lecture at all. Or, the way they liked to do things was, have almost no lecture, but LUV having us come in to ask questions, and work them out w/ them on a dry erase board.

There's a lot of personalities for professors and styles once you get there. So you're supposed "sure fire" method, might not work, if per se, you are a listener, when your biochem teacher like the hands-on method.

Just get accepted. Do your best. Work your butt off. You can't game the system. Honestly. It's like trying to get people to lose weight. No one really wants to "eat less and exercise more". Everyone wants a shortcut or a fad diet, or something fancy. In the end, getting through med school is, WORK HARD! STUDY A LOT! BE ORGANIZED! ASK QUESTIONS!

Attendance varies from each institution. If you find yourself in a situation where you feel you can actually choose a school based on this attendance policy, more power to you! As opposed to answering the question: "Where'd you go to med school?" "The one that accepted me"

 

[Dohnut]

Ain't that the goddamn truth!

Someone sticky this thread for all the nontrads?

I would not endorse this. It is so much the material, but if the analogy of trying to carry all of the information in a leaky bucket makes sense, that's what pre-clinical medicine is. Because for all intents and purposes, you build almost NOTHING off of it once you get into the wards. And hence you lose it.

Very few people can handle the sheer volume of the material while actually retaining it. Anyone who has studied for Step 1 knows this. It's basically cram, reacquaint, cram cram cram and hope most of it sticks so that you can regurgitate all the information at the most appropriate times - relevant to the question. Retention is your worst enemy and best ally.

What is so funny is I knew a Pharm D who went to medical school, and you know what course he thought was difficult? PHARMACY!?! I've seen molecular biologist looks like idiots in molecular cell bio. Myself as a food scientist, I'd still getting twisted up w/ biochemistry. There are so many things being thrown at you that you have a tenuous grip on material and factoids you knew well before med school. This "leaky bucket" on top of your shoulders is NOT immune to forgetting s*** you knew like used to know like your own face. Every once in awhile, you'll find yourself forgetting your PIN number for your ATM card. No joke!

Just let it happen. It's been happening this way for years. And I can't understand how people continue to try to "game" the system. There's no slick way to pass the Steps. There's no slick way to pass Pathology. Or near. It's all pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and going balls to the wall insane. Getting immersed and "filthy" w/ it. It's only 2 years. Then you PURGE the F*** out of it. Don't waste all your energy trying to game the system. Trust me, if someone figured out how, we'd all know. Again, going back to my previous post, own up the fact that you aren't as special as you think you are once you start medical school. Tyler Durden just invited you to Fight Club, once you matriculate, space monkey.

Ask any attending doctor about the Krebs cycle. Which medium best grows listeria. How many residues cross the phospholipid bilayer of the insulin receptor. It's all useless pointless information. If you really want to be an uppity go-getter, believing you are going to be a doctor, study all the clinical crap. That's where you'll make your living and be a doctor. Not in which bug can utilize sorbitol.

 

[katiemaude]

There are tests online that will help you figure out if you are an auditory, visual or kinesthetic learner. Most people are some combo. First year tends to require a lot of memorizing, so if you can figure out a better way to do that, you might be a little ahead of the game. But really? You just have to work hard and try it a few ways until you figure out what works for you. Attend class, try watching from home, pre read, don't pre read, take long hand notes, type notes, study in a group, study alone. I still tweak my method based on the subject and the instructor. It helps to talk to other people because you get new ideas about how to do it better. It never occurred to me to draw out the biochem pathways on a whiteboard until someone else told me about it. I only really learned anatomy from looking at a cadaver and dissecting, but plenty of people do fine with an atlas. I need to write notes by hand to retain info. I also retain more when I attend lecture (I can see the professor lecturing in my mind vs I have poor recall of what I hear on video - our cameras don't show the lecturer, just the slides). But some days I need to use my early morning energy for studying so I skip lecture and watch it later from home when I'm winding down.

 

[katiemaude]

OP, I was mulling over what you said about a non-trad who has been out of school for awhile and has a medical school acceptance in hand and what they can do to get up to speed. Looking back, I would have benefitted from taking an upper level undergrad class in physiology or pathology. I could have used that information and also I could have worked on my study skills. It still would not come close to replicating the pace or volume of information but it might have warmed up my brain at least and gotten me in the groove.

I still think the best thing you can do to prepare for medical school is to rest and to get your personal house of cards in order. You want your ideal living situation set up, the mundane details of life out of the way, and the financial pressures of adult life on hold. Things like a mortgage and a rental back home, a car on its last legs, a crazy roommate, bad internet service or credit card debt will only make a difficult transition worse. Get your health in good shape, get your annual dr visits out of the way, get a workout routine going and figure out a plan for grocery shopping and cooking. Then jump in and swim swim swim. Prepare your ego for a potential struggle and don't become disillusioned (or try not to) if you aren't an A student initially. Don't let it defeat you. Try to embrace the opportunities you have as a student. Mourn the loss of the "weekends" you used to enjoy so much but are now used for studying. Make friends. Don't let being older dissuade you from bonding with your classmates. You are on the same journey.

That's my advice for any non trad, not just mspeedwagon.

 

[New_Slang]

I feel like this thread is validating some of the choices I am making currently/plan to make in the future. Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful input.

I am not terribly far removed from college (finished BA in 2009, MA in 2012, post-bacc May 2015) but in my current gap year, I have a job that is only heavy part time hours. I am finally over the stress of the application cycle and find myself with some free time, so I decided I would go against all the SDN advice from the younger crowd and start to study. I don't mean that I bought the anatomy text and am taking notes, but I've signed up for a few EdX courses to help keep my brain functioning and current on important topics (currently, biochemistry). It isn't tons of work, its free, and it makes me feel interested in science again.

I'm 99% sure I'm attending a school that's 45 minutes away and my husband and I are not planning on selling our home. My current plan - which I totally stole from someone on SDN or on the MSHQ podcast - is to figure out how to play the lectures as podcasts and listen to them on my drive to and from school. While that is passive, it is still not wasted time in a car. And as I consider the school I plan on attending vs my other options, class schedule and lifestyle is very important. This particular school has class 8-12pm plus a few afternoon activities on select days. My tour guide at my interview was a non-trad and I asked for her feedback on the structure and she was very positive about it. And, it is block so 1 class at a time which I think, while not cutting edge, works with my personal style. I'm not in this to make friends and meet the love of my life, so if I have to be that anti-social person in the library most of the time, that is something I am willing to do for my grades.

On a similar note, something I learned in grad school and that my non-trad tour guide echoed was this: "Treat this as a job." Make yourself plan your time so that you are doing the maximum amount of work between 8am-6pm and then go home and remember your family. I know that there will be days where I'll have to study late at night or all weekend for a test, but if I treat this as my job and use my time productively, I am hoping to find success.

I don't have a ton of experience learning from a video (except Khan Academy) as I was always the "attend every single lecture" person, so I'm learning how to navigate that a bit better as I do the EdX classes. We'll see what I end up doing, but it is nice to refine my study and organizational skills now in combination with what I learned about myself as a post-bacc student.

*and FWIW, I rolled my 403(b) into a Roth IRA .

 

[deleted520847]

@mspeedwagon I am certainly glad you started this thread. I think the points you laid out are actually very handy for non-trads who are looking to do their pre-reqs after a long hiatus from school. I had foolishly decided to enroll for 8 week courses of Bio 1 and 2 and have them knocked out during the spring semester as well as Chem 1 and Physics one. You get the drift... So much confidence, so little information. All this while, I also have to do business courses during the semester (related to work). I decided to go ahead and crack open my Bio books and get my study game on. Now, I last did Biology in early 2000s when I graduated high school. In college I passed without needing to study too much (last minute all nighter, captain of the procrastination club) and worked 2 full time and 2 part time jobs. I thought it was going to come flowing back just as easily. My confidence rose after studying because I felt I was retaining a lot of the material. I understood it all. I was in heaven. Those fools on SDN didn't know what they were talking about telling me to take it slow. What did they know anyway, right? Wrong! I did some practice tests and came crashing right back down to earth. While I understood all of the concepts, I kept missing out on little silly details. Why? I realized that while I am good at grasping concepts, I have not perfected my memorization skills. I can explain the entire concept to you, but I would have to keep looking up the names. I can pass a multiple choice exam, but if asked to write it down and explain it, I would be stumped because I would not remember the terminology off the top of my head. And unlike my humanities degree, you can't bull**** your way out of it with Biology by using synonyms.

You were certainly right. For someone who was in school recently, studying might come a little more naturally, but for someone like me who has been out a while, perfecting study habits is key. Besides, I did a humanities degree, memorization is not as important as thinking on your feet. I literally showed up to one exam after partying the night before and still aced it. It was a media class and I watched tv. That's all I needed. With sciences, it is a little different and the last time I used my science brain way ages ago (and I had a younger brain then).

Right now I realize I am not even studying to get ahead. I just need to perfect my study habits before school starts to ensure I am not left way behind. Also while I will still be doing a full load, I will only take one hard science a semester now until I have my footing. I am confident once I get my flow going I can do more science courses per semester. Until then however, this train is going slow and steady. Choo! Choo!

Another arrogant over-confident pre-med has seen the light, bring out the choir!

 

[mspeedwagon]

Honestly, you won't have many or any of the problems I faced. You graduated in 2015 (assuming from a full-time post-bac program). Any studying you'll do is will help minimally (but you know that). That said, I'm not opposed to it.

You're also lucky to have a block schedule with class that lasts to 1 p.m. You basically took all the advice on the thread. With a 45 minute commute make sure you have a new or very reliable car. Classes at our school went till 8-3 or 8-5 so if you worked only from 8-6, you'd fail miserably.

My advice is medical school is your life, not your job. You'll be studying weekends and nights often. The first semester is rather humbling. But, don't be anti-social. Your classmates are the only ones who understand how you feel day to day.

I'm 99% sure I'm attending a school that's 45 minutes away and my husband and I are not planning on selling our home. My current plan - which I totally stole from someone on SDN or on the MSHQ podcast - is to figure out how to play the lectures as podcasts and listen to them on my drive to and from school. While that is passive, it is still not wasted time in a car. And as I consider the school I plan on attending vs my other options, class schedule and lifestyle is very important. This particular school has class 8-12pm plus a few afternoon activities on select days. My tour guide at my interview was a non-trad and I asked for her feedback on the structure and she was very positive about it. And, it is block so 1 class at a time which I think, while not cutting edge, works with my personal style. I'm not in this to make friends and meet the love of my life, so if I have to be that anti-social person in the library most of the time, that is something I am willing to do for my grades.

On a similar note, something I learned in grad school and that my non-trad tour guide echoed was this: "Treat this as a job." Make yourself plan your time so that you are doing the maximum amount of work between 8am-6pm and then go home and remember your family. I know that there will be days where I'll have to study late at night or all weekend for a test, but if I treat this as my job and use my time productively, I am hoping to find success.

I don't have a ton of experience learning from a video (except Khan Academy) as I was always the "attend every single lecture" person, so I'm learning how to navigate that a bit better as I do the EdX classes. We'll see what I end up doing, but it is nice to refine my study and organizational skills now in combination with what I learned about myself as a post-bacc student.

*and FWIW, I rolled my 403(b) into a Roth IRA .

 

[futuremdforme]

I feel like this thread is validating some of the choices I am making currently/plan to make in the future. Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful input.

I am not terribly far removed from college (finished BA in 2009, MA in 2012, post-bacc May 2015) but in my current gap year, I have a job that is only heavy part time hours. I am finally over the stress of the application cycle and find myself with some free time, so I decided I would go against all the SDN advice from the younger crowd and start to study. I don't mean that I bought the anatomy text and am taking notes, but I've signed up for a few EdX courses to help keep my brain functioning and current on important topics (currently, biochemistry). It isn't tons of work, its free, and it makes me feel interested in science again.

I'm 99% sure I'm attending a school that's 45 minutes away and my husband and I are not planning on selling our home. My current plan - which I totally stole from someone on SDN or on the MSHQ podcast - is to figure out how to play the lectures as podcasts and listen to them on my drive to and from school. While that is passive, it is still not wasted time in a car. And as I consider the school I plan on attending vs my other options, class schedule and lifestyle is very important. This particular school has class 8-12pm plus a few afternoon activities on select days. My tour guide at my interview was a non-trad and I asked for her feedback on the structure and she was very positive about it. And, it is block so 1 class at a time which I think, while not cutting edge, works with my personal style. I'm not in this to make friends and meet the love of my life, so if I have to be that anti-social person in the library most of the time, that is something I am willing to do for my grades.

On a similar note, something I learned in grad school and that my non-trad tour guide echoed was this: "Treat this as a job." Make yourself plan your time so that you are doing the maximum amount of work between 8am-6pm and then go home and remember your family. I know that there will be days where I'll have to study late at night or all weekend for a test, but if I treat this as my job and use my time productively, I am hoping to find success.

I don't have a ton of experience learning from a video (except Khan Academy) as I was always the "attend every single lecture" person, so I'm learning how to navigate that a bit better as I do the EdX classes. We'll see what I end up doing, but it is nice to refine my study and organizational skills now in combination with what I learned about myself as a post-bacc student.

*and FWIW, I rolled my 403(b) into a Roth IRA .

I'm glad that you're feeling prepared and that you've had the chance to talk to a non-trad. I do think that it is a bit optimistic to plan on the 8-6 -- that's not always possible, and in fact is often impossible. I was really unprepared for the volume of work that is required.

 

[New_Slang]

I'm glad that you're feeling prepared and that you've had the chance to talk to a non-trad. I do think that it is a bit optimistic to plan on the 8-6 -- that's not always possible, and in fact is often impossible. I was really unprepared for the volume of work that is required.

Well yes I realize that it won't work every day. But the students (both traditional and not) I spoke to at this particular school were really optimistic about how the block schedule works in their favor and how they have been able to find a balance. Especially if I'm done with classes at noon. I get that it will have to be changed when tests and such are coming up, but I think having a game plan set up when I go in is half the battle. It can always be readjusted but I want to have a plan of attack.

And this doesn't take into account how I will wake up early and study for a couple hours before the day really begins. I've done that with a lot of success before. 8-6 would be on campus time during which I plan to do the BULK of the work as much as I can. Then dedicate a few evening hours to my marriage.

 

[GCSDOC]

If I ever get in, this is my plan as well. Some of the most productive hours of my day are between 4am-7am....with studying in morning, then class till noon, then studying till 6pm, I think it sounds reasonable if you are disciplined with the schedule

 

[New_Slang]

If I ever get in, this is my plan as well. Some of the most productive hours of my day are between 4am-7am....with studying in morning, then class till noon, then studying till 6pm, I think it sounds reasonable if you are disciplined with the schedule

The thing is, anything is possible if you are disciplined enough to make it work. You'll get there!

 

[deleted520847]

In case anyone is interested, one thing I have recently run into is memory training. I believe this might be a gem us non-trads can also use before med school starts to get everything up to snuff up in memory town. Watch John Foer's Ted talk on it. It is absolutley useful. A lot of work getting accustomed to but it seems solid

 

[pageantry]

Honestly, you won't have many or any of the problems I faced. You graduated in 2015 (assuming from a full-time post-bac program). Any studying you'll do is will help minimally (but you know that). That said, I'm not opposed to it.

You're also luck to have a block schedule with class that lasts to 1 p.m. You basically took all the advice on the thread. With a 45 minute commute make sure you have a new or very reliable car. Classes at our school went till 8-3 or 8-5 so if you worked only from 8-6, you'd fail miserably.

My advice is medical school is your life, not your job. You'll be studying weekends and nights often. The first semester is rather humbling. But, don't be anti-social. Your classmates are the only ones who understand how you feel day to day.

Question for you guys, since class schedules and money are both big in this thread. Would you rather: pay $100,000 (over four years, total) and have somewhat mandatory attendance (HP/P/F, 70% attendance for HP), 8-4, at a newer school (which had one nice match so far, fwiw), OR: $240,000 at a respected (but not prestigious) school with no mandatory attendance?

Obviously this is before interest which I calculate puts the cost over the life of the loans with IBR at ~$200,000 over 16 years or ~$400,000 over 20 years. (ETA: respectively.)

Basically I'm asking what's the dollar value of controlling your own time through pre-clinicals--in the minds of people going through it.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Honestly, school name doesn't matter much. I'd go to the school for 100k and make a study schedule that factors in the that you will be in class from 8-4. The main issue I have with my school isn't so much the mandatory attendance (which we have in only some classes), but rather the add-ons. As I reflect on the week from hell, the school really put me in a bad situation with our two hardest exams in the same week and then forcing me to do physician shadowing and go to the an art museum in that same week. I really had no time to study and had little to no hope of passing.

Controlling your own schedule is helpful, but I wouldn't pay more than a few thousand dollars for it in tuition. Especially since, come third year, it doesn't matter. So you'd be paying 140k to control some of first and second year at best. And, who knows, maybe you'll learn in class and want to attend. Then it's really flushing money down the toilet.

Question for you guys, since class schedules and money are both big in this thread. Would you rather: pay $100,000 (over four years, total) and have somewhat mandatory attendance (HP/P/F, 70% attendance for HP), 8-4, at a newer school (which had one nice match so far, fwiw), OR: $240,000 at a respected (but not prestigious) school with no mandatory attendance?

Obviously this is before interest which I calculate puts the cost over the life of the loans with IBR at ~$200,000 over 16 years or ~$400,000 over 20 years. (ETA: respectively.)

Basically I'm asking what's the dollar value of controlling your own time through pre-clinicals--in the minds of people going through it.

 

[pageantry]

Thanks so much, @mspeedwagon. Needed it put in perspective for me...

 

[futuremdforme]

Question for you guys, since class schedules and money are both big in this thread. Would you rather: pay $100,000 (over four years, total) and have somewhat mandatory attendance (HP/P/F, 70% attendance for HP), 8-4, at a newer school (which had one nice match so far, fwiw), OR: $240,000 at a respected (but not prestigious) school with no mandatory attendance?

Obviously this is before interest which I calculate puts the cost over the life of the loans with IBR at ~$200,000 over 16 years or ~$400,000 over 20 years. (ETA: respectively.)

Basically I'm asking what's the dollar value of controlling your own time through pre-clinicals--in the minds of people going through it.

70% attendance is not that much, that's an awful lot of class that you can still skip. I'd go for the cheap school.

 

[Gfliptastic]

If anyone wants to learn a memory trick, association is probably the one you want to have down pact. The people I know who were amazing at pharm did association. I was somewhat for it too, but I wasn't dedicated enough to it to make it work so well. Maybe if I saw it's utility early on I would have been more "aggressive" w/ it.

I can't think of an example of it anymore, so I'll just make it up. For example, I have a drug that starts w/ the letter Z, so it is at my Zoo, it covers gram positives, but is parenteral so I have a grandpa at the Zoo w/ a syringe. It's side effects can cause arrhythmias and diarrhea, so my grandpa (Gram-Pos) is at the zoo, w/ a syringe in his hand hooked up to an EKG machine while sitting on the toilet.

Lol I think I might be describing Zosyn!!!

Anyways, this is association. Maybe this is something for pre-meds to start to develop. Hell, if you want to be uppity, just start learning all the medications. You're welcomed!

 

[Dohnut]

If anyone wants to learn a memory trick, association is probably the one you want to have down pact. The people I know who were amazing at pharm did association. I was somewhat for it too, but I wasn't dedicated enough to it to make it work so well. Maybe if I saw it's utility early on I would have been more "aggressive" w/ it.

I can't think of an example of it anymore, so I'll just make it up. For example, I have a drug that starts w/ the letter Z, so it is at my Zoo, it covers gram positives, but is parenteral so I have a grandpa at the Zoo w/ a syringe. It's side effects can cause arrhythmias and diarrhea, so my grandpa (Gram-Pos) is at the zoo, w/ a syringe in his hand hooked up to an EKG machine while sitting on the toilet.

Lol I think I might be describing Zosyn!!!

Anyways, this is association. Maybe this is something for pre-meds to start to develop. Hell, if you want to be uppity, just start learning all the medications. You're welcomed!

That sounds like how I train my dog, lol!

Start learning all the medications how? I know pharmacology is kinda taught differently in med and pharm schools but still.... I used association just for drug classes and not specific drugs while in pharm school. So how's learning all the medication gonna do to help me when I start med school?

 

[Dohnut]

Honestly, school name doesn't matter much. I'd go to the school for 100k and make a study schedule that factors in the that you will be in class from 8-4. The main issue I have with my school isn't so much the mandatory attendance (which we have in only some classes), but rather the add-ons. As I reflect on the week from hell, the school really put me in a bad situation with our two hardest exams in the same week and then forcing me to do physician shadowing and go to the an art museum in that same week. I really had no time to study and had little to no hope of passing.

Controlling your own schedule is helpful, but I wouldn't pay more than a few thousand dollars for it in tuition. Especially since, come third year, it doesn't matter. So you'd be paying 140k to control some of first and second year at best. And, who knows, maybe you'll learn in class and want to attend. Then it's really flushing money down the toilet.

Can't you just do the studying at the art museum? Or burn some CD's to listen to when you're commuting?

 

[mspeedwagon]

Unfortunately we were chaperoned at the art museum. They made sure we looked at art. Studying wasn't feasible although we all tried given we had an upcoming exam.

I loved audio osmosis for the MCAT, but a lot of our profs seem to test from the note packet/slides so have not found an equivalent to audio osmosis for med school. I guess I could have read stuff aloud on played back the recording, but didn't. Not as effective as dedicated studying though.

Can't you just do the studying at the art museum? Or burn some CD's to listen to when you're commuting?

 

[familyaerospace]

Since I am a long time sdn member, you sound like me and whipple before we started med school. I could have written you a 200 pg paper (not kidding) telling you why I felt a "calling" to medicine and it would all be worth it. I spent 5 yrs blinded on getting in. I also have thousands of hrs of shadowing, volunteering and the like and know my way around hospitals like the back of my hand.

I did not believe I would ever question this path. I did not listen to my physician friends that said do not do it. Tried to find only those that were positive and wanted it as badly as I thought I did. I attended conferences and met other non-trads, but, again, never listened to anyone that said a negative thing. I would never question my decision, it was my calling in life. I also would have said the same thing as you, "I like my job, but do not want to do it 20 yrs from now."

However, things change when you are in. I probably would be questioning this with passing grades (I do have some; highest grade in class in clinical skills) because it is all consuming... Med school, which is hellish in workload and monotony, takes over your life. I almost feel you need to have been dissatisfied with where you were to be successful in med school. Most of my classmates motivate themselves by saying they would never go back to what they were doing before... ever!

Add me to that list... All of it.

 

[familyaerospace]

Every once in awhile, you'll find yourself forgetting your PIN number for your ATM card. No joke!

I literally forgot how to turn on a light switch.

 

[Heyitsthatguy!]

your post on what non-trads should know is literally the best thing i've ever read on SDN. I'm a PA student (in no way comparing MD/DO to PA just giving reference) but in terms of the comments related to how better prepare especially having been out of school are 100% dead-on. My first semester could have gone a lot better had I done some reading over the summer rather than taking the advice of friends and just "relaxing." I hope you're doing great in your career!