What if I don't get into Medical/Dental school?

[Iwilldietrying]

Ahh, the infamous "What if" question.

Well, I've come to the realization that taking the "Get-a-Bachelors-of-science-degree-and-apply-to-medical-school" route is quite a risky one, as I recently discovered that only 30% of applicants get accepted (a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs). Consequently, seeing as I'm applying for University programs this year, I'm unsure of which programs to apply and which degree to pursue. Originally, I was planning to apply for the Life Sciences program at McMaster, pursue a BSc, and major in Biology. However, I've noticed that the careers to which a BSc holder qualifies aren't very "health-care-oriented", to say the least. For instance, I remember coming across "Science Columnist" as one of the possibilities.

My questions are:

1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

Thanks in advance!

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[Vicviper]

Well, first thing first, stop worrying so much, you've got plenty of time ahead of you.

Nextly, you should major in a subject you enjoy, music, history, art, not necessarily Bio or Chem. Be a science major if you enjoy science, because if you enjoy what you do, it will come much more easily to you. One important thing to know is that it doesn't matter what your major is to health professional schools, and I've heard many times that given a choice between a bio major and an art major with the same scores, they may very well go for the art major. As long as you take certain pre-requiste classes like General Biology, Physics, and Chemistry, that's all you need to apply. So be a major you really enjoy.

And for the question of what to do if you get rejected, you apply again, simple as that. While you're waiting you can do a post-bac (an extra year of school to boost your grades), a masters, get clinical shadowing experience, see the world, anything really, as long as it's meaningful. And for dental, the average accepted GPA isn't 3.8, it's 3.3-3.5, so don't think you have to be perfect. Plus, GPA isn't everything, there's test scores (MCAT, DAT, PCAT, OAT), and other accomplishments you can do.

As far as other health professions, you could go pharmacy, optometry, podiatry, audiology, vet, there's really tons of options, and luckily all health professions have essentially the same pre-reqs you have to do (that I listed above), so you have plenty of time to decide exactly what you want to do.

And if you've appliued 4-5 times and have yet to get in (and I've often heard of people getting accepted after theire 6th application cycle), there's always Law. With a science background, you could really go far in law, there are many opportunities. Law school is also much easier to get into, as there are so many law schools (as long as you don't want top 10 or so). I think my backup plan, as in I didn't get in after multiple attempts, would have been to either teach, or go to law school, probably teach though, because I always enjoyed it.

Again, don't worry, you've got plenty of time to decide what you want to do, so don't stress!

Good luck, and keep on keeping on.

 

[DrYoda]

My questions are:

1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

I was going to go work for a few years. If I was unhappy with what I was doing and still wanted to go to med school after that I would reapply.

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

Nure anesthesia, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, physical therapy.

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

The degrees pretty much only prepare you for research jobs. What other types of jobs you can get depends on you, your skills, work experience, connections ect.

 

[Iwilldietrying]

Well, first thing first, stop worrying so much, you've got plenty of time ahead of you.

Nextly, you should major in a subject you enjoy, music, history, art, not necessarily Bio or Chem. Be a science major if you enjoy science, because if you enjoy what you do, it will come much more easily to you. One important thing to know is that it doesn't matter what your major is to health professional schools, and I've heard many times that given a choice between a bio major and an art major with the same scores, they may very well go for the art major. As long as you take certain pre-requiste classes like General Biology, Physics, and Chemistry, that's all you need to apply. So be a major you really enjoy.

And for the question of what to do if you get rejected, you apply again, simple as that. While you're waiting you can do a post-bac (an extra year of school to boost your grades), a masters, get clinical shadowing experience, see the world, anything really, as long as it's meaningful. And for dental, the average accepted GPA isn't 3.8, it's 3.3-3.5, so don't think you have to be perfect. Plus, GPA isn't everything, there's test scores (MCAT, DAT, PCAT, OAT), and other accomplishments you can do.

As far as other health professions, you could go pharmacy, optometry, podiatry, audiology, vet, there's really tons of options, and luckily all health professions have essentially the same pre-reqs you have to do (that I listed above), so you have plenty of time to decide exactly what you want to do.

And if you've appliued 4-5 times and have yet to get in (and I've often heard of people getting accepted after theire 6th application cycle), there's always Law. With a science background, you could really go far in law, there are many opportunities. Law school is also much easier to get into, as there are so many law schools (as long as you don't want top 10 or so). I think my backup plan, as in I didn't get in after multiple attempts, would have been to either teach, or go to law school, probably teach though, because I always enjoyed it.

Again, don't worry, you've got plenty of time to decide what you want to do, so don't stress!

Good luck, and keep on keeping on.

Wow! It's amazing how one reply can give a person so much confidence and encouragement! You've given me so much hope! Now, I actually feel like I can succeed in this profession. I'm just going to go for it!

Thank you soooooooooooo much!

I just have one more question, though: If I happen to do a post-bac, will adcoms take my fourth year's GPA into account, or judge solely on my fifth year? Also, will the post-bac have a negative impact on my chances of getting into medical/dental school?

 

[tennisball80]

Wow! It's amazing how one reply can give a person so much confidence and encouragement! You've given me so much hope! Now, I actually feel like I can succeed in this profession. I'm just going to go for it!

Thank you soooooooooooo much!

I just have one more question, though: If I happen to do a post-bac, will adcoms take my fourth year's GPA into account, or judge solely on my fifth year? Also, will the post-bac have a negative impact on my chances of getting into medical/dental school?

Welcome to SDN!

 

[Iwilldietrying]

I was going to go work for a few years. If I was unhappy with what I was doing and still wanted to go to med school after that I would reapply.


Nure anesthesia, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, physical therapy.



The degrees pretty much only prepare you for research jobs. What other types of jobs you can get depends on you, your skills, work experience, connections ect.

Thanks for answering all of my questions!

Do you mind answering one more, though?

Would a Bachelors of Science (BSc) qualify for a nursing position, such as a nurse practitioner, or would I have to get a Bachelors of Science in Nursing (BSN)?

See, my ORIGINAL back-up plan was to apply for the Nursing program at McMaster, pursue a BSN degree, and then apply for medical/dental schools. If I don't happen to get any acceptances after a couple of tries, I was going to try and become a nurse practitioner instead. However, I've recently heard that adcoms tend to reject nurses, because 1) they perceive medicine as their back-up and 2) due to the shortage of nurses in hospitals, they reject them on purpose.

Aww, man, I've gotten myself stressed out again...

 

[DrYoda]

Thanks for answering all of my questions!

Do you mind answering one more, though?

Would a Bachelors of Science (BSc) qualify for a nursing position, such as a nurse practitioner, or would I have to get a Bachelors of Science in Nursing (BSN)?

You would need a BSN.

Do they have physician assistants in Canada? If they do you would probably want to go PA over NP, since PA schools would accept you with a BSc.

Aww, man, I've gotten myself stressed out again...

Lots of people at the point you're at have a hard time with career decisions, back up planning ect. Nothing to get stressed about.

 

[Vicviper]

Your post bac GPA is often counted completely separately, so that means you've got a good chance to get some awesome grades and really show what you're made of. And no, post-bacs are always viewed very positively, it shows that you're really dedicated to what you want to do.

As far as nursing, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to start out as an RN, and then you can move onto nurse practitioner later, and I think that's either a doctorate or a masters program. Not totally sure on this one. One thing to be aware of, if you do go get a degress in nursing, it may not include all of the pre-reqs required for health professions - and it would be a bit... weird if you say graduated with a nursing degree, didn't practice at all, and applied right for dental school. The schools really want to see that you're dedicated. I think if you were interested in med, it might actually be helpful, but again, it might be a tad of an unneeded expenditure of your time.

Again, I think you're going a few steps too far in your thought process at the moment. Your primary thing to do right now is to get acccepted to a college, and do well, that's it. Don't think about what will happen if you don't get in, because you're setting yourself up for failure. It kinda already sounds like you're expecting to do badly - be sure to always have faith in yourself. If you want to get there badly enough, put the hard work in and don't settle for anything else than your dreams. When it looked like I might not get into dental school, some people recommended that I look into PA school, and while a Physicians Assistant is a great job, I knew it wasn't for me - it wasn't what I aspired to, and if I went that route, I knew I would always live with regrets. If there's a will, there's a way, so just keep your thoughts on the positive side, and you'll do fine. I didn't think I'd get in on my first cycle, because of my grades, but I ended up getting 3 acceptances, one of which was an Ivy League, and a wait-list, and I just finished my first week of dental school today.
​

Good luck, and I'm happy to help.

 

[Near]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=661845

 

[DendWrite]

Law school is also much easier to get into, as there are so many law schools (as long as you don't want top 10 or so). I think my backup plan, as in I didn't get in after multiple attempts, would have been to either teach, or go to law school, probably teach though, because I always enjoyed it.

I don't know a ton about law school, but from what I've read about it and from talking with my pre-law friends, law school rankings are pretty important (moreso than med schools) in determining which jobs you get post-graduation (so the more competitive law firms will hire the grads from the highest ranked schools). Just something to think about (in other words, the law path isn't really "easier," especially if you hope to make a similar salary as doctors).

 

[Vicviper]

I don't know a ton about law school, but from what I've read about it and from talking with my pre-law friends, law school rankings are pretty important (moreso than med schools) in determining which jobs you get post-graduation (so the more competitive law firms will hire the grads from the highest ranked schools). Just something to think about (in other words, the law path isn't really "easier," especially if you hope to make a similar salary as doctors).

You're right in that the law profession isn't "easier" perse, there isn't a built in earning potential that exists in health fields. You're much more a business person than any of the health professions. Getting into a law school is, and maybe I went a bit far saying "much" easier, easier. And having had two siblings who've gone to law school, I've heard that the real difference in going to a top law school gives is in your first job (unless you go to one of the super elites), beyond that it's really on you and what you've done. And similarly, your earning potential is much more based on you, mow much work you want to do, how outgoing you are, how many risks you're willing to take, etc - whereas the health professions earning potential is more of a linear (sometimes exponential) increase over time as you get more experienced and have your own practice for example.

Anyways, didn't want to get into an argument about Law or anything, but it is a decent back-back-back-back-up plan if you really can't get in to health after a while.... not to say that you should ever give up, I know I wouldn't have.

 

[Caesar]

Funny you should write this as I have been spending the past couple weeks really hammering out a back-up plan. I think as soon as I decide I may blog about it because, well maybe you'll find it interesting.

 

[Depakote]

You'll want to spend a few years applying before you really need to have a final backup plan, plenty of applicants who finally matriculate don't get in on their first attempt. Interim backup plans aren't a bad idea though.

It took me a few tries to get in, after my first cycle of applications, I finished school and got a job that would still give me some clinical and research experience. I was even able to get a letter of recommendation from my employer. However, if I never got into medical school, I would not have stayed at this job lifelong. This was a temporary solution to help pay for my applications and get me some more experience as I continued applying.


My backup plan:
My third cycle of applications I applied to both MD and DO schools. I had success with both, however if you are applying from Canada you may wish to look into DO practice rights. I am not sure if they are identical to the US. The Caribbean may be an alternative, but I would only recommend this to someone that has failed to matriculate to US/Canadian MD and DO programs.

If I had failed the above, ultimately I would have likely tracked down a field that would have afforded me clinical practice rights either PA or something along the lines of Nurse Practitioner/Nurse Anesthesia/etc.


Anyway... it is smart to consider the possibility of failure, but I would suggest applying multiple times, improving your file each time, before you give up.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Ahh, the infamous "What if" question.

Well, I've come to the realization that taking the "Get-a-Bachelors-of-science-degree-and-apply-to-medical-school" route is quite a risky one, as I recently discovered that only 30% of applicants get accepted (a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs). Consequently, seeing as I'm applying for University programs this year, I'm unsure of which programs to apply and which degree to pursue. Originally, I was planning to apply for the Life Sciences program at McMaster, pursue a BSc, and major in Biology. However, I've noticed that the careers to which a BSc holder qualifies aren't very "health-care-oriented", to say the least. For instance, I remember coming across "Science Columnist" as one of the possibilities.

My questions are:

1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

Thanks in advance!

1. I was accepted to a dual admit program so this isn't an issue. However if I wasn't I would try and raise the BCPM, apply to law school and contemplate SGU, AUC, Saba and Ross.

2. Yes, a PA or Nurse Practitioner, pay is 80-100k per annum.

3. Assuming a decent liberal arts education any entry level position should be available with a B.Sci. a M.Sci. is more for research.

 

[Iwilldietrying]

Thank you everyone!

Who needs guidance councellors, when there's SDN! Your answers were EXTREMELY helpful. So much so, that when I think about my future now, I smile as opposed to attacking the first person/object that comes into view.

Exhibit A:



Exhibit B:

 

[orthomyxo]

Well, first thing first, stop worrying so much, you've got plenty of time ahead of you.

Nextly, you should major in a subject you enjoy, music, history, art, not necessarily Bio or Chem. Be a science major if you enjoy science, because if you enjoy what you do, it will come much more easily to you. One important thing to know is that it doesn't matter what your major is to health professional schools, and I've heard many times that given a choice between a bio major and an art major with the same scores, they may very well go for the art major. As long as you take certain pre-requiste classes like General Biology, Physics, and Chemistry, that's all you need to apply. So be a major you really enjoy.

And for the question of what to do if you get rejected, you apply again, simple as that. While you're waiting you can do a post-bac (an extra year of school to boost your grades), a masters, get clinical shadowing experience, see the world, anything really, as long as it's meaningful. And for dental, the average accepted GPA isn't 3.8, it's 3.3-3.5, so don't think you have to be perfect. Plus, GPA isn't everything, there's test scores (MCAT, DAT, PCAT, OAT), and other accomplishments you can do.

As far as other health professions, you could go pharmacy, optometry, podiatry, audiology, vet, there's really tons of options, and luckily all health professions have essentially the same pre-reqs you have to do (that I listed above), so you have plenty of time to decide exactly what you want to do.

And if you've appliued 4-5 times and have yet to get in (and I've often heard of people getting accepted after theire 6th application cycle), there's always Law. With a science background, you could really go far in law, there are many opportunities. Law school is also much easier to get into, as there are so many law schools (as long as you don't want top 10 or so). I think my backup plan, as in I didn't get in after multiple attempts, would have been to either teach, or go to law school, probably teach though, because I always enjoyed it.

Again, don't worry, you've got plenty of time to decide what you want to do, so don't stress!

Good luck, and keep on keeping on.

Looks like someone knows their stuff. This was so helpful .

 

[deleted6669]

for those of you considering pa as a "back up plan" you may want to think again.
many pa programs are as competitive or more competitive than med school.
lots of programs get 1000 apps for 200 interviews for 30-40 seats.
many of todays applicants apply to > 10 programs and MAYBE get an interview or 2 their first yr applying(many folks apply for 2-3 yrs before getting in).
additionally most premeds don't have some of the prereqs or health care experience a typical pa program is looking for.
yes, there are "lower tier" pa programs with lesser requirements just like there are for medschool but why strive for that?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

As emedpa pointed out, there really are not easy "back-up" options for many professions, but people tend to figure out something that works for them. PA and NP training is far from a cakewalk, and you'll run into many great canidates.

RE: Law School....ranking matters if you want to be competitive for a top firm. Anything in the 1st tier will get you into a pretty good law firm, 2nd tier will get you into an average one, 3rd tier you better have connections, and anything less than that you should probably be in another profession.

As for getting into med school, some people will expand their options (look at programs in less desirable locations), look outside of the US (Carib, etc), or go work for a few years building up your application and try again.

Med school, like many other competitive areas, is not meant for everyone, so sometimes that means changing your goals.

 

[MilkmanAl]

A good alternative to med or dental school is psychology. You'll still be able to work in the health field, and those programs let just about anyone in. They're also super easy, so go for it!

 

[WashMe]

A good alternative to med or dental school is psychology. You'll still be able to work in the health field, and those programs let just about anyone in. They're also super easy, so go for it!

I wasn't a psych major in UG or anything, but be careful not to insult anyone with comments like this. I don't think a PhD in Psych is "super easy".

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

A good alternative to med or dental school is psychology. You'll still be able to work in the health field, and those programs let just about anyone in. They're also super easy, so go for it!

I think you are joking, but in case not....the average Ph.D. program has a <10% acceptance rate, and the top programs are <3%. Lesser programs are 15-20%. There are also a fraction of the spots of med school, and far less of a chance then getting into medical school.

Undergrad psych classes are NOTHING like doctoral ones, I took them mostly for fun.

 

[MilkmanAl]

It always gets at least one.

 

[sassilysweet]

One major that I wish I had known about the first time around for undergrad was Clinical Lab Science/Medical Technology. Most of the classes that you take for premed are the program requirements and you get built-in clinical experience. I had a previous BA and have gone back for 15 months to complete a BS in CLS (because I had all the prereqs done for medical school admissions, I only had to take the senior year program courses and clinical rotations). The classes are clinical chemistry, diagnostic microbiology, hematology, blood banking/transfusion medicine, and each program has other courses such as molecular diagnostics, immunolug, virology, etc. Rotations take place at hospitals where you are basically getting on-the-job training for class credit. This also leads you to a job that starts at $20 in most places, plus benefits. There is a certification test that is taken after clinicals are completed and you need this within one year of completing your program to work as an MT/CLS.

If anyone has any questions about the major or field, PM me. I was the national student secretary for the professional organization, and I am my state's student chair for the same ^_^

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It always gets at least one.

*shakes fist*

 

[Marjan Islam]

In the chance that you don't make it, there's always Physician Assistant School which allows you to do a lot a doctor does, just with less autonomy

 

[deleted6669]

in the chance that you don't make it, there's always physician assistant school which allows you to do a lot a doctor does, just with less autonomy

see post #17 in this thread....

 

[MilkmanAl]

Are the PA schools you refer to really more competitive, or do they just take a smaller percentage of applicants than some med schools? There's a huge difference, and I'm betting it's the latter.

 

[fahimaz7]

Ahh, the infamous "What if" question.

Well, I've come to the realization that taking the "Get-a-Bachelors-of-science-degree-and-apply-to-medical-school" route is quite a risky one, as I recently discovered that only 30% of applicants get accepted (a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs). Consequently, seeing as I'm applying for University programs this year, I'm unsure of which programs to apply and which degree to pursue. Originally, I was planning to apply for the Life Sciences program at McMaster, pursue a BSc, and major in Biology. However, I've noticed that the careers to which a BSc holder qualifies aren't very "health-care-oriented", to say the least. For instance, I remember coming across "Science Columnist" as one of the possibilities.

My questions are:

Get good grades, a good MCAT, and enough time in the hospital.
1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

Thanks in advance!

I didn't get on my first application. Do I regret getting a bachelor degree in science? Absolutely not. If you're dream is to go into medicine, then you will find a way to get it done.

****ty lab jobs are what is possible with a BS in science.

 

[fahimaz7]

Are the PA schools you refer to really more competitive, or do they just take a smaller percentage of applicants than some med schools? There's a huge difference, and I'm betting it's the latter.

Most require 500-1000 hours of "clinical exposure". No MCAT = easier to get in to.

 

[CScull]

Ahh, the infamous "What if" question.

Well, I've come to the realization that taking the "Get-a-Bachelors-of-science-degree-and-apply-to-medical-school" route is quite a risky one, as I recently discovered that only 30% of applicants get accepted (a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs). Consequently, seeing as I'm applying for University programs this year, I'm unsure of which programs to apply and which degree to pursue. Originally, I was planning to apply for the Life Sciences program at McMaster, pursue a BSc, and major in Biology. However, I've noticed that the careers to which a BSc holder qualifies aren't very "health-care-oriented", to say the least. For instance, I remember coming across "Science Columnist" as one of the possibilities.

My questions are:

1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

Thanks in advance!

Thank you for making a thread that's original (and if it's not completely original it's at least something I haven't already seen 5 of today) and that doesn't make me want to bash my head into a wall.

Maybe there really is hope.

 

[sunshinevet]

As far as other health professions, you could go pharmacy, optometry, podiatry, audiology, vet, there's really tons of options, and luckily all health professions have essentially the same pre-reqs you have to do (that I listed above), so you have plenty of time to decide exactly what you want to do.

Uhhh... in a lot of places, vet is a lot more competitive to get into than med school. Especially moreso than DO. With very different pre-reqs and you need completely different experience, and a good explanation as to why you swapped... and it pays like shiite

Don't use vet as a backup. The adcoms will see right through you, and they don't have room in their schools for people who didnt want to do vet first.

 

[WashMe]

Uhhh... in a lot of places, vet is a lot more competitive to get into than med school. Especially moreso than DO. With very different pre-reqs and you need completely different experience, and a good explanation as to why you swapped... and it pays like shiite

Don't use vet as a backup. The adcoms will see right through you, and they don't have room in their schools for people who didnt want to do vet first.

Just throwing it out there, but...

"More selective" =/= "More competitive"

Self-selecting groups of people apply to each type of professional school. In terms of academic merit (GPA/standardized test ability), the majority of people who get into medical school would have gotten into vet school with minimal pre-reqs. The same cannot likely be said for reverse situation. There may be a lower acceptance rate for vet, but I guarantee I could've gotten into any vet program I wanted if I had the basic pre-reqs.

 

[sunshinevet]

Dude... the average GPA for veterinary school matriculants over the last 5 years has been around 3.6, give or take .05. I believe MD is something similar...? At most schools it is a lot higher, more around the 3.7 mark, there are a few schools with averages of 3.2-3.3 that balance out the rest.

 

[WashMe]

Dude... the average GPA for veterinary school matriculants over the last 5 years has been around 3.6, give or take .05. I believe MD is something similar...? At most schools it is a lot higher, more around the 3.7 mark, there are a few schools with averages of 3.2-3.3 that balance out the rest.

That ~.15 GPA difference when thousands of people are considered does make a difference. That also doesn't take into account standardized testing. Don't think there aren't schools that pull down the MD average GPA as well... just saying. Some schools have a GPA average of ~3.9...

 

[Vicviper]

Uhhh... in a lot of places, vet is a lot more competitive to get into than med school. Especially moreso than DO. With very different pre-reqs and you need completely different experience, and a good explanation as to why you swapped... and it pays like shiite

Don't use vet as a backup. The adcoms will see right through you, and they don't have room in their schools for people who didnt want to do vet first.

Uhhh... did I say vet was less competitive? Hehe, nope, didn't think I did. I know that it is often FAR harder to get into Vet school because of the lack of seats. The OP sounded awfully confused about what he/she wanted to do after college, so I was gladly reminding them that there are other great and noble health professions to consider, such as Vet, which for some ignorant reason, people don't often consider on the same "level" as medicine.

 

[987]

1. If you want to go badly enough you will APPLY until you get in. That being said it is NOT as imposible as everyone thinks.

2. Go where you will fit in and you can be happy. That means if small class sizes are important, being close to home, not being close to home, .....whatever that means for you!

3. TONS!! Google them!

Believe me I was one of the skeptic pre-meds who was convinced I would never get in....and on my first try I got into more then one school. Yet I have friends in my class who applied several years in a row.....eventually they got in! So if its what you really want you CAN do it!!!! Good LUCK!

 

[MilkmanAl]

So if its what you really want you CAN do it!!!!

Sorry to piss on the happiness parade, but that's really not the case. Some people just plain aren't cut out for med school for whatever reason. Maybe they tanked their grades too badly or can't muster the motivation and organization despite wanting to go or they aren't smart enough. There's also the distinct possibility that a qualified applicant gets repeatedly shelved in favor of all the other qualified applicants. It's great to think positively, and while I definitely don't think one unsuccessful application round is enough to call it quits, it doesn't really help to assume that your "passion" and "desire" will get you in.

 

[Vicviper]

Sorry to piss on the happiness parade, but that's really not the case. Some people just plain aren't cut out for med school for whatever reason. Maybe they tanked their grades too badly or can't muster the motivation and organization despite wanting to go or they aren't smart enough. There's also the distinct possibility that a qualified applicant gets repeatedly shelved in favor of all the other qualified applicants. It's great to think positively, and while I definitely don't think one unsuccessful application round is enough to call it quits, it doesn't really help to assume that your "passion" and "desire" will get you in.

While I don't agree with the negativity, I agree with the primary point. Passion won't get you anywhere if you don't apply it with a generous dose of hard work and midnight oil.

I like to think that just about anyone could get into professional school if they put enough honest hard work into it, and they're able to change their study skills and work ethic to be able to get decent grades. You always hear of people getting accepted after their fifth or sixth application cycle - you learn from your mistakes.

I think a better way of putting it would be... You can get in if you've got the passion and dedication to put the hard work in that you need to do.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm not trying to be negative, but I really don't like the rah-rah attitude for something as taxing as getting into med school (or any professional health school). If you fail the first time, chances are good you're going to have to put in quite a lot of work fixing whatever was wrong. I think you're setting that borderline or unqualified candidate up for a seriously tough path if "passion and hard work will get you through!" is your advice. Like I said, some people aren't smart enough to get into med school no matter how hard they try. Also, some people have done virtually irreparable damage to their GPA's that would require 3-4 years to fix, and you're doing those applicants a serious disservice by omitting that information or trying to candy-coat it. We're basically saying the same thing, but I think it's foolish to recommend that someone should keep pushing, regardless of the odds and costs especially if no alternative is offered.

 

[987]

I agree with you...however we are talking about a high school student who....has a clean slate. If this is what they want to do and they are serious about it they can do it. Yes they have to get the grades, yes they have to do what it takes but what I was trying to say is that it is not impossible. Every year there are a lot of us who get into school. Yes, I think knowing I had to work hard was good....but it was people who acted as though it was impossible who looking back are very frusterating to me.

 

[Vicviper]

I'm just always reminded of studies I've read which show with plenty of certainty that entering grades for dental students have almost no correlation onto their ability as a clinician.

When I speak to the possibility of achieving what you want to if you've got the dedication and ability to do the hard work needed, I speak from personal experience. In my sophomore and junior year I devastated my sGPA with D's and C's, and by the time I applied I was able to get my sGPA back up to 3.01 . Knowing what I was against, I kicked my ass into gear and studied like my life depended on it. Because of that I was able to rock the DAT, and my scores were able to completely counter balance my horrible GPA. I got into multiple schools on my first attempt, including Ivy League. I've shared this story many times here.

I don't think I've ever said that my case is common, or easy to replicate, but I do like to provide others with the greatest of all gifts, hope, and I don't consider it a false hope.

Lastly, getting into profession school definitely doesn't require intelligence in any amazing form, what it does require is hard work. Exactly how smart do you have to be to memorize things in a book? Having intelligence makes the memorization easier, and require less hard work, but enough brute repetition of the TCA cycle will get you to memorize the structures, enzymes, and electron pushing one way or another. My commencement speaker had a graduating highschool GPA of 1.6. After serving in Vietnam with medics, he wanted to go to med school, and when he applied to undergrad universities he was laughed at. He went the CC route and ultimately graduated valedictorian of his undergrad. Now he's one of the top neurosurgeons in the US. How'd he say he did it? Hard work and dedication to his goal.

Now if a candidate can't put in the work needed to get in, they'll find that out themselves, and maybe they'll learn from their mistakes and try again (be it 1 or 6 attempts), or maybe they'll live with the fact that they tried - but telling someone to give up hope because their current scores aren't great is a damned shame.

Sorry for the tirade, but I consider myself to be spokesman for the United Underdogs association, haha.

P.S. How about, hard work and dedication can get you in? haha

 

[987]

Thank you !!! See happens in medical and dental!!

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm just always reminded of studies I've read which show with plenty of certainty that entering grades for dental students have almost no correlation onto their ability as a clinician.

I haven't read the studies, but I absolutely agree.

getting into profession school definitely doesn't require intelligence in any amazing form

Again, agreed, but if you don't have that baseline level, you're sunk.

I consider myself to be spokesman for the United Underdogs association

I got into med school with a 3.1 and a 2.9 science GPA.

 

[Iwilldietrying]

Well, first thing first, stop worrying so much, you've got plenty of time ahead of you.

Nextly, you should major in a subject you enjoy, music, history, art, not necessarily Bio or Chem. Be a science major if you enjoy science, because if you enjoy what you do, it will come much more easily to you. One important thing to know is that it doesn't matter what your major is to health professional schools, and I've heard many times that given a choice between a bio major and an art major with the same scores, they may very well go for the art major. As long as you take certain pre-requiste classes like General Biology, Physics, and Chemistry, that's all you need to apply. So be a major you really enjoy.

And for the question of what to do if you get rejected, you apply again, simple as that. While you're waiting you can do a post-bac (an extra year of school to boost your grades), a masters, get clinical shadowing experience, see the world, anything really, as long as it's meaningful. And for dental, the average accepted GPA isn't 3.8, it's 3.3-3.5, so don't think you have to be perfect. Plus, GPA isn't everything, there's test scores (MCAT, DAT, PCAT, OAT), and other accomplishments you can do.

As far as other health professions, you could go pharmacy, optometry, podiatry, audiology, vet, there's really tons of options, and luckily all health professions have essentially the same pre-reqs you have to do (that I listed above), so you have plenty of time to decide exactly what you want to do.

And if you've appliued 4-5 times and have yet to get in (and I've often heard of people getting accepted after theire 6th application cycle), there's always Law. With a science background, you could really go far in law, there are many opportunities. Law school is also much easier to get into, as there are so many law schools (as long as you don't want top 10 or so). I think my backup plan, as in I didn't get in after multiple attempts, would have been to either teach, or go to law school, probably teach though, because I always enjoyed it.

Again, don't worry, you've got plenty of time to decide what you want to do, so don't stress!

Good luck, and keep on keeping on.

Your post bac GPA is often counted completely separately, so that means you've got a good chance to get some awesome grades and really show what you're made of. And no, post-bacs are always viewed very positively, it shows that you're really dedicated to what you want to do.

As far as nursing, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to start out as an RN, and then you can move onto nurse practitioner later, and I think that's either a doctorate or a masters program. Not totally sure on this one. One thing to be aware of, if you do go get a degress in nursing, it may not include all of the pre-reqs required for health professions - and it would be a bit... weird if you say graduated with a nursing degree, didn't practice at all, and applied right for dental school. The schools really want to see that you're dedicated. I think if you were interested in med, it might actually be helpful, but again, it might be a tad of an unneeded expenditure of your time.

Again, I think you're going a few steps too far in your thought process at the moment. Your primary thing to do right now is to get acccepted to a college, and do well, that's it. Don't think about what will happen if you don't get in, because you're setting yourself up for failure. It kinda already sounds like you're expecting to do badly - be sure to always have faith in yourself. If you want to get there badly enough, put the hard work in and don't settle for anything else than your dreams. When it looked like I might not get into dental school, some people recommended that I look into PA school, and while a Physicians Assistant is a great job, I knew it wasn't for me - it wasn't what I aspired to, and if I went that route, I knew I would always live with regrets. If there's a will, there's a way, so just keep your thoughts on the positive side, and you'll do fine. I didn't think I'd get in on my first cycle, because of my grades, but I ended up getting 3 acceptances, one of which was an Ivy League, and a wait-list, and I just finished my first week of dental school today.​

Good luck, and I'm happy to help.

You're right in that the law profession isn't "easier" perse, there isn't a built in earning potential that exists in health fields. You're much more a business person than any of the health professions. Getting into a law school is, and maybe I went a bit far saying "much" easier, easier. And having had two siblings who've gone to law school, I've heard that the real difference in going to a top law school gives is in your first job (unless you go to one of the super elites), beyond that it's really on you and what you've done. And similarly, your earning potential is much more based on you, mow much work you want to do, how outgoing you are, how many risks you're willing to take, etc - whereas the health professions earning potential is more of a linear (sometimes exponential) increase over time as you get more experienced and have your own practice for example.

Anyways, didn't want to get into an argument about Law or anything, but it is a decent back-back-back-back-up plan if you really can't get in to health after a while.... not to say that you should ever give up, I know I wouldn't have.

Uhhh... did I say vet was less competitive? Hehe, nope, didn't think I did. I know that it is often FAR harder to get into Vet school because of the lack of seats. The OP sounded awfully confused about what he/she wanted to do after college, so I was gladly reminding them that there are other great and noble health professions to consider, such as Vet, which for some ignorant reason, people don't often consider on the same "level" as medicine.

While I don't agree with the negativity, I agree with the primary point. Passion won't get you anywhere if you don't apply it with a generous dose of hard work and midnight oil.

I like to think that just about anyone could get into professional school if they put enough honest hard work into it, and they're able to change their study skills and work ethic to be able to get decent grades. You always hear of people getting accepted after their fifth or sixth application cycle - you learn from your mistakes.

I think a better way of putting it would be... You can get in if you've got the passion and dedication to put the hard work in that you need to do.

I'm just always reminded of studies I've read which show with plenty of certainty that entering grades for dental students have almost no correlation onto their ability as a clinician.

When I speak to the possibility of achieving what you want to if you've got the dedication and ability to do the hard work needed, I speak from personal experience. In my sophomore and junior year I devastated my sGPA with D's and C's, and by the time I applied I was able to get my sGPA back up to 3.01 . Knowing what I was against, I kicked my ass into gear and studied like my life depended on it. Because of that I was able to rock the DAT, and my scores were able to completely counter balance my horrible GPA. I got into multiple schools on my first attempt, including Ivy League. I've shared this story many times here.

I don't think I've ever said that my case is common, or easy to replicate, but I do like to provide others with the greatest of all gifts, hope, and I don't consider it a false hope.

Lastly, getting into profession school definitely doesn't require intelligence in any amazing form, what it does require is hard work. Exactly how smart do you have to be to memorize things in a book? Having intelligence makes the memorization easier, and require less hard work, but enough brute repetition of the TCA cycle will get you to memorize the structures, enzymes, and electron pushing one way or another. My commencement speaker had a graduating highschool GPA of 1.6. After serving in Vietnam with medics, he wanted to go to med school, and when he applied to undergrad universities he was laughed at. He went the CC route and ultimately graduated valedictorian of his undergrad. Now he's one of the top neurosurgeons in the US. How'd he say he did it? Hard work and dedication to his goal.

Now if a candidate can't put in the work needed to get in, they'll find that out themselves, and maybe they'll learn from their mistakes and try again (be it 1 or 6 attempts), or maybe they'll live with the fact that they tried - but telling someone to give up hope because their current scores aren't great is a damned shame.

Sorry for the tirade, but I consider myself to be spokesman for the United Underdogs association, haha.

P.S. How about, hard work and dedication can get you in? haha

Vicviper, if I do get into medical school one of these days, I owe it all to your inspiring words on this very post. You've given me an "I can and I will" attitude, which, until now, was hard to develop with my low self-esteem. For that, I can't thank you enough!

 

[Iwilldietrying]

@987 (your private message)

I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to pessimism, so the negative comments don't phase me a bit.

Thanks for your positivism, though! All these years in highschool, I assumed that I could never become a doctor, saying to myself: "It's out of your reach. You're not smart enough. Chose something easier." All these years, I listened to my friends’ aspirations, with low to mid 80 averages, who are certain that they will become doctors one day. Yet, with an average in the high 80s, I am certain that my average is far too low to ever consider "doctor" as a future profession. Does that make sense?! Nope, not really. I guess it's because I'm afraid of failure, so much so that I'm afraid to pursue a career that could potentially result in failure.

Now that I've opened my eyes to this apple of possibility, however, I just need to construct a staircase stable enough to grab it.

 

[hugs]

Hi everyone, not sure if this is the right place to post this, I'm a nursing student I have about 2 years to go, but my initial plan was to get my BSN, then join the military for a few years and then go back to school for a graduate degree, I was thinking CRNA or Nurse Practitioner, but I've recently becom interested in being a Dentist..I'm going to start shadowing a dentist soon to confirm that, but this is my dilemma as other posts have said, it's difficult to get into dental school with a BSN, double whammy on me because I was thinking about applying to dental school while still in nursing school..I also have the majority of the core classes out of the way, but have alot of Chem/Bio classes left, also when I was first considering going back to school and what to major in, I was stuck between Nurse and Dentist, but ultimately chose Nurse because I felt I would be able to get into the job force more quickly and I was intimidated with the chem courses required for Dentistry..so these are my questions

1) I don't realistically see myself getting accepted into Dental school the first time around...especially while still in nursing school, would it be better to not apply, get about a year or two of Nursing under my belt and then apply or do they usually accept 2nd time applicants more so than first time applicants..this is what I'm thinking now if I don't get accepted while in Nursing school
1)Get my BSN
2)Join the military-I think 3 years would be the shortest contract
3) Apply to Dental School at 2 years in the military

Thoughts on this please????? Also if your comments are going to be negative, please have them be constructive

On a side note, I'm older 31, so would be about 35 when I apply to Dental School

 

[ordinaryasian]

Ahh, the infamous "What if" question.

Well, I've come to the realization that taking the "Get-a-Bachelors-of-science-degree-and-apply-to-medical-school" route is quite a risky one, as I recently discovered that only 30% of applicants get accepted (a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs). Consequently, seeing as I'm applying for University programs this year, I'm unsure of which programs to apply and which degree to pursue. Originally, I was planning to apply for the Life Sciences program at McMaster, pursue a BSc, and major in Biology. However, I've noticed that the careers to which a BSc holder qualifies aren't very "health-care-oriented", to say the least. For instance, I remember coming across "Science Columnist" as one of the possibilities.

My questions are:

1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

Thanks in advance!

1. My back up plan was technically PA School, I originally thought that dental school was out of my reach so I applied to the PA (3yr undergrad + 3yr grad) articulated degree program with UMDNJ and got in. After I was accepted I studied and took the DATs, and to my surprise I did quite well. So now I am dropping out of the PA program to apply to dentistry school XD

2. If all else fails I shall apply to PA school (again) after I finish my undergrad education

3. None that I can think of off the top of my head, biology degrees are useless these days cause the job market is so competitive...

 

[JFalc]

Ahh, the infamous "What if" question.

Well, I've come to the realization that taking the "Get-a-Bachelors-of-science-degree-and-apply-to-medical-school" route is quite a risky one, as I recently discovered that only 30% of applicants get accepted (a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs). Consequently, seeing as I'm applying for University programs this year, I'm unsure of which programs to apply and which degree to pursue. Originally, I was planning to apply for the Life Sciences program at McMaster, pursue a BSc, and major in Biology. However, I've noticed that the careers to which a BSc holder qualifies aren't very "health-care-oriented", to say the least. For instance, I remember coming across "Science Columnist" as one of the possibilities.

My questions are:

1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

Thanks in advance!

A common backup plan is to go for a masters degree and try again.

Law school is always an option with a background in the "sciences", as most law students come from business or some other "easy" major, and it is commonly accepted that biology is a harder major and it also opens doors in intellectual property law (but make sure you get into a top 15 law school, or graduate #1 in your class or you will have a hard time finding a job).

Unfortunately, biology is one of the harder fields to get a job out of. Almost all positions require an advanced degree, and a lot of schools are straight up removing their MS programs and just offering PhDs. Don't feel forced into the Biology major, unless that is really what you want to do. A lot of people make that mistake. Chemistry/Biochemistry are excelent choices and unless you want to go into marine biology or evolutionary biology you will end up doing chemistry and biochemistry anyway without the options of making 100k+ a year in the industry without extended education after the BS in Biology. Psychology is also another common choice for premeds, but that is even harder to find a job with just a BS. It is commonly accepted that atleast 90% of all "psychology" jobs require advanced degrees, and "Clinical Psychology" is even harder to get into than medical school. Also beware, many psychology programs are unbelievably easier than many biology programs. There are several reasons for this, including competition in Biology isn't as rampant in Psychology, and a C+ in a Biology class, may be curved up to an A in a Psychology class because so few students even try.

Point is, don't feel forced into Biology, and if you do get a Bachelors in Biology, consider double major (or dual degree) in another field, or be ready to take the GRE and get ready for another couple years working on an advanced degree.

 

[budda10000]

I'm just always reminded of studies I've read which show with plenty of certainty that entering grades for dental students have almost no correlation onto their ability as a clinician.

When I speak to the possibility of achieving what you want to if you've got the dedication and ability to do the hard work needed, I speak from personal experience. In my sophomore and junior year I devastated my sGPA with D's and C's, and by the time I applied I was able to get my sGPA back up to 3.01 . Knowing what I was against, I kicked my ass into gear and studied like my life depended on it. Because of that I was able to rock the DAT, and my scores were able to completely counter balance my horrible GPA. I got into multiple schools on my first attempt, including Ivy League. I've shared this story many times here.

I don't think I've ever said that my case is common, or easy to replicate, but I do like to provide others with the greatest of all gifts, hope, and I don't consider it a false hope.

Lastly, getting into profession school definitely doesn't require intelligence in any amazing form, what it does require is hard work. Exactly how smart do you have to be to memorize things in a book? Having intelligence makes the memorization easier, and require less hard work, but enough brute repetition of the TCA cycle will get you to memorize the structures, enzymes, and electron pushing one way or another. My commencement speaker had a graduating highschool GPA of 1.6. After serving in Vietnam with medics, he wanted to go to med school, and when he applied to undergrad universities he was laughed at. He went the CC route and ultimately graduated valedictorian of his undergrad. Now he's one of the top neurosurgeons in the US. How'd he say he did it? Hard work and dedication to his goal.

Now if a candidate can't put in the work needed to get in, they'll find that out themselves, and maybe they'll learn from their mistakes and try again (be it 1 or 6 attempts), or maybe they'll live with the fact that they tried - but telling someone to give up hope because their current scores aren't great is a damned shame.

Sorry for the tirade, but I consider myself to be spokesman for the United Underdogs association, haha.

P.S. How about, hard work and dedication can get you in? haha

This is pure truth If i have ever seen it.... I didn't even graduate highschool and had a lackluster performance(2.5) for one year in a CC. Well 5 years later I came back with a vengeance and Im about to finish in the top 2% of my class at a UC... Go figure..
Maybe its too soon to tell but I think my prospects for getting admitted to Dental school are fairly good.

 

[avatarftw]

What?! 44% of applicants are accepted to MD programs. I don't have the data for DO schools. 44% is much higher from a rate and absolute percentage difference.

"a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs" Really? Based on the MSAR, you can see the acceptance stats for people with X GPA and Y MCAT. I sincerely doubt that you're right. However, I'm not going to invest more time posting the MSAR information; you can find it at your library.

1. My back up plan was to be a High School teacher, quite different in terms of training from medicine/dental school. Dental school was something I also considered strongly.

2. You could also be a pharmacist, podiatrist, Physician Assistant, optometrist, etc, etc...

3. You can't do too much with a biology degree unless you get a teaching certificate or want to get a PhD.

Ahh, the infamous "What if" question.

Well, I've come to the realization that taking the "Get-a-Bachelors-of-science-degree-and-apply-to-medical-school" route is quite a risky one, as I recently discovered that only 30% of applicants get accepted (a third of which have 3.8-4.0 GPAs). Consequently, seeing as I'm applying for University programs this year, I'm unsure of which programs to apply and which degree to pursue. Originally, I was planning to apply for the Life Sciences program at McMaster, pursue a BSc, and major in Biology. However, I've noticed that the careers to which a BSc holder qualifies aren't very "health-care-oriented", to say the least. For instance, I remember coming across "Science Columnist" as one of the possibilities.

My questions are:

1. What is/was your back-up plan, in case you don't/didn't get into medical/dental school?

2. Are there programs to which I can apply where the degree can qualify for other careers in health care that are similar to that of pediatricians and dentists (e.g. help others on a daily basis, hospital/clinical environment, high-paying)?

3. What types of jobs can I get with a BSc? MSc (majoring in Biology)?

Thanks in advance!