What is 401K

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RealRX

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If you could please take the time to help out your fellow SDNer:

1. Explain to me like I'm five what the heck is a 401K.



2. How much should I invest in a 401K


3. How much do I need to invest in order for me to "break even" when it comes to filing taxes


4. If the stock market is not doing well will my 401K be affected?


5. What is a IRA roth and am I allowed to open one?


I been researching the internet but all signs seems to point to YES YOU SHOULD INVEST IMMEDIATELY!!!!! But to be honest I'm a little hesitant.

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You should meet with a financial planner and do estate planning to decide how much to put towards retirement, how much to pay toward loans, how much to keep in an emergency fund as well as build a savings for big purchases. Learn about the various tax benefits too regarding Roth accounts or writing off loan interests so you have a nest egg in the future. Good luck!


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If you could please take the time to help out your fellow SDNer:

1. Explain to me like I'm five what the heck is a 401K.



2. How much should I invest in a 401K


3. How much do I need to invest in order for me to "break even" when it comes to filing taxes


4. If the stock market is not doing well will my 401K be affected?


5. What is a IRA roth and am I allowed to open one?


I been researching the internet but all signs seems to point to YES YOU SHOULD INVEST IMMEDIATELY!!!!! But to be honest I'm a little hesitant.

Explaining how a 401k account works is a simple task, however deciding if you should actually put money into one is not so simple of a task. Generally, it is a good idea to at least invest up to your company's match (generally 4-5% of salary) so I would start there. Deciding on which fund to put the money in is also difficult, but for a beginner I would generally recommend the total stock market index fund or an index that tracks the S&P 500. This is a good baseline that will work ok for about 95% of people out there, but realize you should probably be saving more than 5% of your salary for retirement and there is always a chance to lose money in the stock market.

I will end with this, learning about finance will net you more $ per hour than any other activity you can possibly do at this point (including your job), so consider that when it seems daunting/boring to read a finance book/article.
 
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So basically...investing in 401K = you investing in the overall stock market?
 
So basically...investing in 401K = you investing in the overall stock market?

No, 401k is simply an investment account that gets favorable tax treatment, any money you put into the account gets subtracted from your taxable income when you put it in (you pay taxes on the money when you pull it out). What you decide to invest the money in once it is in the account is a different choice. Every company will have different choices of what you can invest the money in though most of these choices will be stocks, it can also be bonds or even cash.

I suggest you choose the option that invests the money into the overall stock market because that is generally best for a beginner only investing 4-5% of his/her salary.
 
What if I don't want to invest in any of those options but just simply have it put into an account as a deposit?
 
Also...am I putting my money in the hands of people or entities and have them invest in other things hoping for a net return?
 
the downside to 401k is waiting to retirement to withdraw. early withdrawal gets penalized.. the positive side to 401k is company matching. its free money. ....if u want the best of both worlds, that is after u match company contribution + u want to invest more, but u want the option to withdraw without penalty, then use investment banking with the extra money...
 
Also...am I putting my money in the hands of people or entities and have them invest in other things hoping for a net return?
I interpreted this question two different ways:

For all of your 401k investment choices, they should clearly specify what the fund will invest in, and your returns should match how the investment performs minus a fee (usually 0.02%-2% of your balance). Going a step deeper, you can classify investment choices into two main types:

1. Passive index funds. These invest in clearly defined indexes such as the S&P 500 which is the 500 largest companies on the US stock market. Because there is no work involved in choosing which stocks to invest in, or trading in and out of them as the market fluctuates, they tend to have the lowest fees down in the <0.1% range. These are the types of funds that I recommend to everyone.

2. Actively managed funds. These still loosely specify what the fund will invest in such as 'medium to small sized growth companies in the US', but the investment managers have the freedom to choose which companies to buy specifically, and to trade in and out of them at any time. Because this takes work to research the companies and there are trading fees, they usually charge higher fees in the 1-2% range. Because there is a ton of research out there that shows that it is hard to consistently beat the benchmark index over the long term (especially after subtracting the higher fees), I don't recommend actively managed funds. Just buy the passive index fund of the respective benchmark.

The other way I interpreted your question was: "am I putting my money in the hands of people or entities and have them invest in other things hoping for a net return [for themselves]". Actually for pension plans, fixed annuities, even bank deposits and CDs, and Social Security, I'm inclined to say yes, they do.

These investments all have a fixed rate of return calculated on something like your salary and years of service in the case of pensions and SS, or just specified in the annuity contract, bank deposit or CD. You have no control over what the money is actually invested in, so the company could be investing in sketchy things like credit default swaps and other exotic and risky derivatives, and making lots of profits which they keep for themselves, while they only give you a paltry return like 1-2% on a CD.

Furthermore, when the market is doing well this racket can go on, but when the market unravels like in 2008, some places went bankrupt like Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual and Wachovia. Sure, your money is still guaranteed through FDIC and the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp, but it's not good when they drag down the rest of the economy and cause a recession which we are still feeling the effects of, 8 years later.

Also if a company or government that offers a pension or SS is not doing well financially, they can change the terms of the plan to stay afloat. This usually involves current workers putting in more money (to pay the current retirees), AND getting a worse benefit in return. Sound fair to you? Of course not.

So the irony is people usually like pensions and bank deposits for the perceived security and guarantees, compared to the wild fluctuations of the stock market. But the reality is pensions and bank deposits have just as much sketchy stuff going on behind the scenes where they work things to benefit the investment managers in fees and profits, so you are usually not getting a good deal. Given the choice between a pension and a 401k, I would take the 401k and just ride the stock market fluctuations, but at least you get more control, you can see your actual balance, and you will keep almost all of the investment returns for yourself.
 
1 non-negotiable rule, always put in whatever your employer will match. Always. After that....then things get more complicated.
 
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I have a headacheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
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Let's say today I invest $1000 into a active managed funds. And let's say they invest my money in a deal that goes sour. Do I lose $1000, or will I lose just a small percentage?
 
Please just go to bogleheads.org or read a book. You are way too raw to be making your own decisions.
 
Don't pay someone to manage your 401k. It will cost you hundreds of thousands in the long run. It's simple. Max it out. Put as much as you legally can into it. Diversify it over many individual funds. At least 90% stocks if you are young. Dial it back into bonds as you get older. Just doing this alone should have you with a decent nest egg. Start here and work your way further once student loans, etc are paid off.
 
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In short: a 401k is an investment plan where you can place pre-tax money into an account that is managed and used to invest in the stock market. Depending on your investments that account can grow and shrink (over time typically you see compounded growth). Most employers match contributions to a 401k up to a point, you can't really draw from the account without penalties until you retire, and when you do withdrawal the money after retiring they will take income taxes on what you withdraw.
 
You don't need to do research on this or try to understand it because I have already done it for you:

(1) 401 k: contribute at least to the match which is usually 5%. If you put in a dollar, your company will give you a dollar = $2. Don't ever touch this money.

- Why? Tax saving and retirement money

- How should I distribute my 401 k?
For a new grad: 35% large size companies, 25% small size companies, 20% mid size companies, 20% international companies.

Look for Vanguard funds (low fee) and look for the word "index" in the fund name.

(2) Tackle your student loans within the first 5 years. Cut down on unnecessary cost. Don't be foolish and buy a new car. Live with friends or family when possible.

(3) Try to work OT if possible especially when you are being paid 1.5x. Working on holidays also helps. Get a per diem job at a non retail pharmacy if you are working in retail.

(4) Take a small vacation every 6 months. Go with a large group of friends or family. Don't overspend.

(5) Spend your money wisely. If it helps you grow or advance your career, then it may be worth it. Staying at a 4 star hotel? Probably not.

(6) If you have some money left over:

- First, max out your health saving account (HSA), not the same as flexible spending account. This is your health care money. It gets rolled over if you don't use it. Tax saving.
- Second, max out your 401 k (up to 18 k this year). Again, tax saving and retirement money.
- Third, put money in ROTH IRA (do a back door conversion).

(7) Start saving for a house. If you put 20% down, you don't have to pay for PMI (extra cost of borrowing money from the bank).

(8) Don't spend ridiculous money on your friends or family. You are just a pharmacist, not Rockefeller Jr.

(9) Date someone who is financially stable and has a good career. It helps tremendously. Divorces can kill your financially.


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^ You should save this post. You are going to thank me later.


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I'm just getting started as well, but One Pharmacy Call & BMB Biology has some great tips. What really helped me was:

1. Open & contribute money into work’s 401k. You tell it to take a certain amount out of each paycheck and invest it in something. I put mine into a Vanguard target retirement 2040 & 2050. This is my understand so please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s essentially a bunch of investment vehicles (stocks, etc) bundled together with the goal of you retiring by 2050. To me, this very much put money in, let it grow and forget about it.

2. Open Charles Schwab RothIRA. I’m not sure why a Roth is more appropriate for me than a traditional, but the folks on reddit/personalfinance seem to think so, so why not. I highly recommend you read https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfi...eferable.2C_vanguard.2C_fidelity_or_schwab.3F

Since it really helped me answer the question “Can you just tell me what to invest in?” I put some money into the Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund (SWTSX mutual fund or SCHB ETF).

3. Don’t forget six month emergency fund.

4. The sooner you begin investing, the better your retirement will be due to compound interest. Something ridiculous like assuming 7% growth and you put in 300/month at 22, if you retire at 67 you'll have a $million+, but you start at 29 and put in $600/month, you'll only have $700,000, something along those lines. The numbers are made up, but it highlights the point that the earlier you start, the better.
compound-interest-1.png


5. This is a great picture.
fb7Dtmh.png


Good luck out there! Highly recommend the Reddit 401k personal finance wiki.
 
So any suggestion as to pay off loan faster in first few years vs use income based repayment and drag it over 25 year? I will be having about 200k loan....(with undergrad loan). If I contribute max to 401k to reduce my income, will that reduce my income in the income based repayment plan? (Then will this be more beneficial?)

What resource is good to find out what works better? Any book or website you guys recommend?
 
Unless you are working for a non-profit or public sector job (which you aren't because you have a 401k) I would recommend only using income based repayment initially in order to build a robust emergency fund.

After that, pay down student loan aggressively...I do not recommend refinancing until you are stable in your job (past any probationary period) because forbearance options are limited with private sector refinance, in case you are terminated.


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So any suggestion as to pay off loan faster in first few years vs use income based repayment and drag it over 25 year? I will be having about 200k loan....(with undergrad loan). If I contribute max to 401k to reduce my income, will that reduce my income in the income based repayment plan? (Then will this be more beneficial?)

What resource is good to find out what works better? Any book or website you guys recommend?
www.daveramsey.com for the steps and motivation to pay off those loans and get out of debt fast. Start hustling and pick up extra shifts and prn jobs. Trim all your expenses and throw all your spare money at your loans. That's what I did and paid off all my loans, mortgage and everything in 8 years. Life's great when you're debt free. I have no payments and the cash is piling up so fast ($7k/mo after expenses) that I don't even know what to spend it on. :)
 
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Like I said, while you can get all the advice you want here, bogleheads will have so much info for you. There isn't a best answer, you will have to make some decisions.

I don't know about the OP but I would want to know why I'm putting my money in certain places and not simply a person's advice without reason.
 
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www.daveramsey.com for the steps and motivation to pay off those loans and get out of debt fast. Start hustling and pick up extra shifts and prn jobs. Trim all your expenses and throw all your spare money at your loans. That's what I did and paid off all my loans, mortgage and everything in 8 years. Life's great when you're debt free. I have no payments and the cash is piling up so fast ($7k/mo after expenses) that I don't even know what to spend it on. :)


How old are you now? Are you happy with your life? Are you married? Do you have kids??
 
How old are you now? Are you happy with your life? Are you married? Do you have kids??
My thought too....That kind of life sounds tough. 8 Years of minimum living post graduate can be rough, especially for older person, for those with family, with elder parent to support. I would think that with income based payment, one can have a decent quality of life, able to have some cash on hand for family events, emergency fund, downpayment for house, etc.
 
How old are you now? Are you happy with your life? Are you married? Do you have kids??
34 now. Yes very happy and content with my life. Keyword is to find contentment within your means. Single, no kids, but dating someone. We're going on a ski trip next month. Where can you ski in August?? ;)
 
34 now. Yes very happy and content with my life. Keyword is to find contentment within your means. Single, no kids, but dating someone. We're going on a ski trip next month. Where can you ski in August?? ;)


But don't you want kids????
 
My thought too....That kind of life sounds tough. 8 Years of minimum living post graduate can be rough, especially for older person, for those with family, with elder parent to support. I would think that with income based payment, one can have a decent quality of life, able to have some cash on hand for family events, emergency fund, downpayment for house, etc.
In all honesty, I didn't get my act together until a few years ago. Before that, I was just like the average Joe, extending my student loans out to 25 years to lower the payment, getting a huge mortgage 3x my income and a Lexus on a loan just so I could 'invest and make more than the interest'. Things were going great it seemed... until I got laid off and had to scramble and move for another job. The point is debt gives you a false sense of security that you can comfortably afford your lifestyle. In reality you are not secure at all. It can all be taken away from you in an instant because of the very debt itself--you don't actually own anything.

That's why at around year 5, I started listening to Dave Ramsey and got serious about paying off my debts. So really I was only hustling for 3 years. 3 years of hard work to be debt free for the rest of my life. I think that's a worthwhile trade off.
 
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Didn't Donald Trump have a kid when he was 60? :p

I don't know dude..I feel like we missed what our parents did when they were our age. They got married, have kids, have a house..you know living the American Dream. Not like now where all of us are just scrambling to pay off our debts...we have men in their 30s who still behave like they're in their 20s..kids are still living with their parents...all that stuff. I feel like we never had a proper transition.
 
We no longer have a spectrum of things we're supposed to do...now everyone is just floating in a pool is what I think.
 
1 non-negotiable rule, always put in whatever your employer will match. Always. After that....then things get more complicated.

It's free money, and even if it's 1% (my old employer was doing that for a while), it adds up faster than most people would realize.

p.s. After age 59 1/2, money from a 401K (or 403B if you work for a nonprofit) can be withdrawn without penalty. You have to start withdrawing it at age 70 1/2, although I don't think there are any limits on how much you can or must withdraw.
 
I'm just getting started as well, but One Pharmacy Call & BMB Biology has some great tips. What really helped me was:

1. Open & contribute money into work’s 401k. You tell it to take a certain amount out of each paycheck and invest it in something. I put mine into a Vanguard target retirement 2040 & 2050. This is my understand so please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s essentially a bunch of investment vehicles (stocks, etc) bundled together with the goal of you retiring by 2050. To me, this very much put money in, let it grow and forget about it.

2. Open Charles Schwab RothIRA. I’m not sure why a Roth is more appropriate for me than a traditional, but the folks on reddit/personalfinance seem to think so, so why not. I highly recommend you read https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfi...eferable.2C_vanguard.2C_fidelity_or_schwab.3F

Since it really helped me answer the question “Can you just tell me what to invest in?” I put some money into the Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund (SWTSX mutual fund or SCHB ETF).

3. Don’t forget six month emergency fund.

4. The sooner you begin investing, the better your retirement will be due to compound interest. Something ridiculous like assuming 7% growth and you put in 300/month at 22, if you retire at 67 you'll have a $million+, but you start at 29 and put in $600/month, you'll only have $700,000, something along those lines. The numbers are made up, but it highlights the point that the earlier you start, the better.
compound-interest-1.png


5. This is a great picture.
fb7Dtmh.png


Good luck out there! Highly recommend the Reddit 401k personal finance wiki.

I like the second graphic, but as a pharmacist you won't get a tax benefit using a Traditional IRA meaning you must use the Roth IRA. I would switch steps 4 and 5 given your income as a pharmacist. You pay less in taxes by maxing your Traditional 401k, so I would prioritize this over the Roth IRA. If you are in residency or only working half of a year after you graduate then do the Roth IRA for that year since your earnings and tax rate will be lower then.

Then again if you just graduated you probably won't be contributing to anything except your 401k up to the match due to debt in which case it doesn't matter.

Though to make it more complicated you could contribute to the Roth IRA and count it as you emergency fund (step 1) since you can withdraw contributions without penalty.

Just some thoughts, everyone has different priorities and goals.
 
I don't know dude..I feel like we missed what our parents did when they were our age. They got married, have kids, have a house..you know living the American Dream. Not like now where all of us are just scrambling to pay off our debts...we have men in their 30s who still behave like they're in their 20s..kids are still living with their parents...all that stuff. I feel like we never had a proper transition.
We no longer have a spectrum of things we're supposed to do...now everyone is just floating in a pool is what I think.
I don't believe everyone's life is going to follow some set formula, and it's certainly not going to be the same as our parents. Everyone is going to have different challenges, and if your challenge is debt, so be it, but work on figuring out a plan on how you're going to overcome that challenge. Just don't float around aimlessly. Set your individual goals, work out a plan, work hard at executing it, adapt to changes.
 
I been researching the internet but all signs seems to point to YES YOU SHOULD INVEST IMMEDIATELY!!!!! But to be honest I'm a little hesitant.

YES, YOU SHOULD INVEST IMMEDIATELY!!!
 
YES, YOU SHOULD INVEST IMMEDIATELY!!!
I still don't understand this.

So my understand for invest early with 401k is that you can reduce your taxable income, and not having to be taxed for your earning from 401k account. But also a lot of people keep saying if investing early with 401k then you can build up your retirement fund much faster due to compounding effect. Isn't compounding effect is the same if you invest on your individual brokerage account too? Say if you invest all your 401k fund into individual stocks, thus you won't get any compounding effect (as there's no reinvestment like index fund that managed by a manager). Please correct me if my understanding is right?
 
I still don't understand this.

So my understand for invest early with 401k is that you can reduce your taxable income, and not having to be taxed for your earning from 401k account. But also a lot of people keep saying if investing early with 401k then you can build up your retirement fund much faster due to compounding effect. Isn't compounding effect is the same if you invest on your individual brokerage account too? Say if you invest all your 401k fund into individual stocks, thus you won't get any compounding effect (as there's no reinvestment like index fund that managed by a manager). Please correct me if my understanding is right?
This isn't hard concept but let me eat a burger first before I reply. Hopefully someone else is faster than me.
 
I still don't understand this.

So my understand for invest early with 401k is that you can reduce your taxable income, and not having to be taxed for your earning from 401k account. But also a lot of people keep saying if investing early with 401k then you can build up your retirement fund much faster due to compounding effect. Isn't compounding effect is the same if you invest on your individual brokerage account too? Say if you invest all your 401k fund into individual stocks, thus you won't get any compounding effect (as there's no reinvestment like index fund that managed by a manager). Please correct me if my understanding is right?
When you contribute to 401k or deferred retirement accounts, your savings is pretax money. Tax doesn't take a bite first hand. 100% of your money vs. 62% (100 - (28% FED +10% CA) of your money is working for you immediately. If you do not put it to 401k, every $1000 you earn, you will give $380 to Trump, and you are left with $620 working for you. All of contribution in retirement account will incur NO capital gain tax, and income/dividend/interest tax, 401k can compound at a much faster rate than that in taxable account where you have to pay tax EVERY SINGLE YEAR for the next 40 years. You will earn gains/interest on your principle, interest on the interest, interest on what would otherwise you pay to Uncle Sam each year. Thus, this is the very effect of triple compounding in retirement account.

US has a progressive tax system. The more you earn, the more tax you pay. In your retirement, it's likely you will earn less than you are working. Those money you withdraw in retirement will be taxed from the lowest bracket first 10%, 15%, 25%. Withdrawal from 401k is considered a taxable income (it was never taxed to begin with), however, if you do it strategically, it means you will pay less tax on the money as you withdraw them since you start from the bottom tax bracket. This is, of course, assuming tax rate will not significantly change later (Maxing Backdoor ROTH IRA comes to mind for tax diversification purposes). So, not only have you compounded your money at significantly faster rate, you also get keep more of your money in retirement.
 
I still don't understand this.

So my understand for invest early with 401k is that you can reduce your taxable income, and not having to be taxed for your earning from 401k account. But also a lot of people keep saying if investing early with 401k then you can build up your retirement fund much faster due to compounding effect. Isn't compounding effect is the same if you invest on your individual brokerage account too? Say if you invest all your 401k fund into individual stocks, thus you won't get any compounding effect (as there's no reinvestment like index fund that managed by a manager). Please correct me if my understanding is right?

Just to add on...(please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this)
If you choose a Roth 401k, you pay taxes on the money now and not when you retire. At which time "what you see in your account is what you get." If you do not choose a Roth 401k then the money is taken out of your paycheck before its taxed and you'll pay taxes when you withdraw during retirement.
You wouldn't want to use a brokerage account as a retirement fund because you'd be paying income tax on the money prior to investing it then again on the growth when you take it out, so no tax advantage. The benefit is that you can do whatever you want with it at any age.


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Those money you withdraw in retirement will be taxed from the lowest bracket first 10%, 15%, 25%. Withdrawal from 401k is considered a taxable income (it was never taxed to begin with), however, if you do it strategically, it means you will pay less tax on the money as you withdraw them since you start from the bottom tax bracket.
I like to include 85% of Social Security getting taxed in my forecasts, so if 85% of your SS comes out to $25k, then it will take up your standard deduction, personal exemption, all of the 10% bracket, and some of the 15% bracket. Thus, your 401k withdrawals will be taxed in the 15% and 25% tax brackets. Let's just say around 20%. So if you saved 28% tax when you made the contribution, but pay 20% tax when you withdraw, there is some benefit there but it isn't as great as some people make it out to be.
 
I like to include 85% of Social Security getting taxed in my forecasts, so if 85% of your SS comes out to $25k, then it will take up your standard deduction, personal exemption, all of the 10% bracket, and some of the 15% bracket. Thus, your 401k withdrawals will be taxed in the 15% and 25% tax brackets. Let's just say around 20%. So if you saved 28% tax when you made the contribution, but pay 20% tax when you withdraw, there is some benefit there but it isn't as great as some people make it out to be.
Doesn't matter, you can't shield your cap gain/dividend/interest from being taxed every yr unless you put it in retirement account. Money in there (Roth 401k or traditional 401k) always grows faster than in taxable account due to that simple fact. The difference is quite significant over 40 yrs getting compund interest on interest that you'd otherwise pay to Trump.
 
I am planning to max out my 401 k tax saving by cashing out my 401 k by age 55. The new law allow you to cash out at 55 and not pay a penalty.

Start to cash out by age:

401 k: 55
Roth IRA: 59
Social Security: around 65
HSA: whenever I need it

This means I need to: (1) have a lot of saving; (2) maintain my health; (3) income from rental properties

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Doesn't matter, you can't shield your cap gain/dividend/interest from being taxed every yr unless you put it in retirement account. Money in there (Roth 401k or traditional 401k) always grows faster than in taxable account due to that simple fact. The difference is quite significant over 40 yrs getting compund interest on interest that you'd otherwise pay to Trump.
So the advantage of 401k is:
1) Save pretax income from Trump each year you put in 401k
2)Profit you make each year from 401k won't get taxed, until when you withdraw them when you are retired
(vs if you invest on non retirement account, you pay tax each year when you make profit)
3) When you withdraw your 401k at retirement, you don't work as much thus less income, this save money on your taxable income when you withdraw the 401k.

Did I miss anything else?
 
Just curious, what is everyone's expected retirement age? Still plan on working (part time) when retired until physically incapable / unemployed, do other investments/business, or just kick back and eat off the retirement fund once retired?

Live expectancy is longer than before, and we may live a longer live, possibly with chronic conditions in the future. I can't imagine myself to retire any time earlier than 60-65 yo....possibly working till I can't work/can't find job, unless I have a sustainable investment generating enough passive income.
 
I interpreted this question two different ways:

For all of your 401k investment choices, they should clearly specify what the fund will invest in, and your returns should match how the investment performs minus a fee (usually 0.02%-2% of your balance). Going a step deeper, you can classify investment choices into two main types:

1. Passive index funds. These invest in clearly defined indexes such as the S&P 500 which is the 500 largest companies on the US stock market. Because there is no work involved in choosing which stocks to invest in, or trading in and out of them as the market fluctuates, they tend to have the lowest fees down in the <0.1% range. These are the types of funds that I recommend to everyone.

2. Actively managed funds. These still loosely specify what the fund will invest in such as 'medium to small sized growth companies in the US', but the investment managers have the freedom to choose which companies to buy specifically, and to trade in and out of them at any time. Because this takes work to research the companies and there are trading fees, they usually charge higher fees in the 1-2% range. Because there is a ton of research out there that shows that it is hard to consistently beat the benchmark index over the long term (especially after subtracting the higher fees), I don't recommend actively managed funds. Just buy the passive index fund of the respective benchmark.

The other way I interpreted your question was: "am I putting my money in the hands of people or entities and have them invest in other things hoping for a net return [for themselves]". Actually for pension plans, fixed annuities, even bank deposits and CDs, and Social Security, I'm inclined to say yes, they do.

These investments all have a fixed rate of return calculated on something like your salary and years of service in the case of pensions and SS, or just specified in the annuity contract, bank deposit or CD. You have no control over what the money is actually invested in, so the company could be investing in sketchy things like credit default swaps and other exotic and risky derivatives, and making lots of profits which they keep for themselves, while they only give you a paltry return like 1-2% on a CD.

Furthermore, when the market is doing well this racket can go on, but when the market unravels like in 2008, some places went bankrupt like Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual and Wachovia. Sure, your money is still guaranteed through FDIC and the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp, but it's not good when they drag down the rest of the economy and cause a recession which we are still feeling the effects of, 8 years later.

Also if a company or government that offers a pension or SS is not doing well financially, they can change the terms of the plan to stay afloat. This usually involves current workers putting in more money (to pay the current retirees), AND getting a worse benefit in return. Sound fair to you? Of course not.

So the irony is people usually like pensions and bank deposits for the perceived security and guarantees, compared to the wild fluctuations of the stock market. But the reality is pensions and bank deposits have just as much sketchy stuff going on behind the scenes where they work things to benefit the investment managers in fees and profits, so you are usually not getting a good deal. Given the choice between a pension and a 401k, I would take the 401k and just ride the stock market fluctuations, but at least you get more control, you can see your actual balance, and you will keep almost all of the investment returns for yourself.

Great explanation, but..

My 5 year old has no idea what you are talking about.
 
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