what is the chance of 5 on VR

[becomingdoctor]

I got 14/5/12 on my recent MCAT no more mcat retake.
undergraduate GPA 3.5ish
master in biology (graduate gpa 3.8-3.9)
lots of research, Asian, CA resident.

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[becomingdoctor]

My fist mcat is 12/6/11, second 12/6/10. The 14/5/12 is the most recent.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Is English your second language?

 

[becomingdoctor]

Is English your second language?

You need to work with someone to improve that score.

English is my second language. But during my last mcat, my aamc VR average was a 9. I don't know what the hell was going on.

 

[UBC2014]

Im going to assume your are ESL or just not "getting verbal'

You have very strong science scores, just accept that there are some people that can't score too well on verbal.

2 6's and a 5 are not good, but they aren't 2 4's and a 3. Chin up and make everything else in your app stand out.

Apply specifically to schools like LMU-DCOM and Touro-COM NY who have been shown to look past a low verbal score.

It's funny, ignoring your verbal, your 2 other subscores still add up to more than what many people achieve as the total composite - scoring high on those sciences is something to be proud of and a redeeming point. Cast a wide net when you apply and make sure our interview skills, person-ability and communication skills are solid. Down pat. Charm them.

 

[UBC2014]

Your overall score is still a 31. Which is higher than most people applying. Again, apply with a wide net and i'm sure many schools will look past your verbal score for other areas of your application that are strong.

Some schools have hard cut-offs for sub-sections, find out what schools those are. Make a list. Call them one by one and ask if they would make an exception for the right person, if not, then cross them off the list. You can also just cross them off the list in the first place, but it cant hurt to ask and see. Some schools will bend the rules sometimes.

 

[UBC2014]

If verbal english is a weak point, i strongly recommend something like toast-masters or other communication activities that get you out of your comfort zone.

 

[AlteredScale]

I got 14/5/12 on my recent MCAT no more mcat retake.
undergraduate GPA 3.5ish
master in biology (graduate gpa 3.8-3.9)
lots of research, Asian, CA resident.

You'll be good for DO. You're other sections are spectacular and because you are ESL you won't get the hard cut from most of the DO schools except maybe a handful. My colleague who was also ESL scored a 23 composite with a 5 in VR and will be attending MarianU-COM in the fall. He had a spectacular store and good EC's like you so I wouldn't be worried. Good luck!

 

[AlteredScale]

It's funny, ignoring your verbal, your 2 other subscores still add up to more than what many people achieve as the total composite - scoring high on those sciences is something to be proud of and a redeeming point. Cast a wide net when you apply and make sure our interview skills, person-ability and communication skills are solid. Down pat. Charm them.

Concur. Heck, OP beat my composite!

 

[j4pac]

I would cast as wide of a net to both MD and DO. All it takes is one to look past your verbal. Your science scores are top notch

 

[user3]

I got 14/5/12 on my recent MCAT no more mcat retake.
undergraduate GPA 3.5ish
master in biology (graduate gpa 3.8-3.9)
lots of research, Asian, CA resident.

I've seen people get into DO with 4 or even 3 on verbal. You will be fine, but apply to at least 10 schools to be safe.

 

[Goro]

Concur. In addition, a number of schools take the best composite score, which in your case would be 14/6/12 = 32.

I've seen people get into DO with 4 or even 3 on verbal. You will be fine, but apply to at least 10 schools to be safe.

 

[TopTomato]

I've seen people get into DO with 4 or even 3 on verbal. You will be fine, but apply to at least 10 schools to be safe.

Now that is something I don't believe. I'm sure I could put B for all the answers and get a 3 on verbal.

 

[68PGunner]

Your vr score is probably legit as evident by 6's in your previous two attempts.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Now that is something I don't believe. I'm sure I could put B for all the answers and get a 3 on verbal.

That is a little bit shocking. Shouldn't a physician be expected to communicate clearly and understand the English language? I guess if you're not working in an academic position you wouldn't have to write papers. Still, it seems strange that reading comprehension wouldn't be considered an important academic strength since physicians are required to read so many publications to stay up to date.

 

[user3]

Now that is something I don't believe. I'm sure I could put B for all the answers and get a 3 on verbal.

That's a little shocking. Shouldn't a physician be expected to communicate clearly and understand the English language? I guess if you're not working in an academic position you wouldn't have to write papers. Still, it seems strange that reading comprehension wouldn't be considered an important academic strength since physicians are required to read so many publications to stay up to date.

I remember reading here last year, VCOM-CC accepted two people with 4 (24 overall) and 3 vr (22 overall). The person with the 3 also was accepted to ACOM and received an interview from WCU.

 

[TopTomato]

I remember reading here last year, VCOM-CC accepted two people with 4 (24 overall) and 3 vr (22 overall). The person with the 3 also was accepted to ACOM and received an interview from WCU.

I still don't buy it. Just because somebody posts it on SDN doesn't make it true. There is NO reason for a school to accept a 3. I can understand a 6, but a 3 shows some SEVERE reading deficits.

 

[user3]

I still don't buy it. Just because somebody posts it on SDN doesn't make it true. There is NO reason for a school to accept a 3. I can understand a 6, but a 3 shows some SEVERE reading deficits.

I remember reading here last year, VCOM-CC accepted two people with 4 (24 overall) and 3 vr (22 overall). The person with the 3 also was accepted to ACOM and received an interview from WCU.

I received this information from @medp63 .

 

[TopTomato]

I received this information from @medp63 .

It's funny how these stories always come down to the "I know a guy who know's a guy".

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I think you'll be fine since you are ESL.

 

[s5260205]

If verbal english is a weak point, i strongly recommend something like toast-masters or other communication activities that get you out of your comfort zone.

^Take this advice if you have difficulties enunciating some words from time to time. As an ESL myself, I personally spent 5+ years living in NA to rid of my accent which some people found quite aversive and might negatively affect your interview performance. Though some may disagree, I think accents are like physical appearances; not a legitimate criteria but some inevitably and subconsciously form a bad first impression based on these personal characteristics.

 

[UBC2014]

I still don't buy it. Just because somebody posts it on SDN doesn't make it true. There is NO reason for a school to accept a 3. I can understand a 6, but a 3 shows some SEVERE reading deficits.

As someone who scored high on VR, and have many friends whom are ESL... VR section is not necessarily a reflection of critical thinking and comprehension. The VR section is a level higher than necessary for critical thinking when it comes to communication. It is easy for someone like myself who is an english native, or others on this board - but for someone who is ESL, translating things in their head - it is extremely hard to get the intricacies of the prose, the flowerly language and multiple congruent steps in thinking of some form of english composition.

I have a friend who scored 4,5,5 on 3 exams in the VR section. Talk to them in person and they are fine for communication. They just never clicked with VR.

 

[UBC2014]

That is a little bit shocking. Shouldn't a physician be expected to communicate clearly and understand the English language? I guess if you're not working in an academic position you wouldn't have to write papers. Still, it seems strange that reading comprehension wouldn't be considered an important academic strength since physicians are required to read so many publications to stay up to date.

This has nothing to do with doing well on VR. Many of the people I know who scored poorly on VR, compensated with very high science scores. When it comes to academic papers, that is a very different thing - they already proved they can do that with the tough science passages and literature heavy experimental questions on some MCATs. They understand the science, which is what matters most, not that they can differentiate between some prose, flowerly or complex english idiosyncrasies on VR.

Now, what really matters is for sure verbal english communication and ability to convey your thoughts. This is what truly matters, and i would hope they can flesh that out during an interview.

FYI, I know people who only know english who have also done just as poorly on VR - yet they can hold intellectual conversations no problem.

 

[UBC2014]

I still don't buy it. Just because somebody posts it on SDN doesn't make it true. There is NO reason for a school to accept a 3. I can understand a 6, but a 3 shows some SEVERE reading deficits.

WHat about a perosn who has a 14/3/14? 13/4/13? If the person is well rounded, can communicate effectively in the interview - i would have no issue taking that person over someone with a 9/9/9 , 10/10/10 etc.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

This has nothing to do with doing well on VR. Many of the people I know who scored poorly on VR, compensated with very high science scores. When it comes to academic papers, that is a very different thing - they already proved they can do that with the tough science passages and literature heavy experimental questions on some MCATs. They understand the science, which is what matters most, not that they can differentiate between some prose, flowerly or complex english idiosyncrasies on VR.

Now, what really matters is for sure verbal english communication and ability to convey your thoughts. This is what truly matters, and i would hope they can flesh that out during an interview.

FYI, I know people who only know english who have also done just as poorly on VR - yet they can hold intellectual conversations no problem.

That's a good point. If you haven't been reading books in English since you were a small child, you would have a tough time with the complicated passages in VR.

I think the upcoming generation of med students is gonna have a rough time with VR unless they rework the passages to sound more like blog posts. People are reading full length books less frequently due to social media.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

WHat about a perosn who has a 14/3/14? 13/4/13? If the person is well rounded, can communicate effectively in the interview - i would have no issue taking that person over someone with a 9/9/9 , 10/10/10 etc.

Why wouldn't you want a student with a more balanced score? Isn't being well rounded a good thing?

You bring up an interesting scenario. I've certainly seen patients grow frustrated with physicians from foreign countries (particularly, Middle Eastern countries - keep in mind I'm in the South) who don't understand the nuances of the English language. Then again, plenty of patients become frustrated with American physicians who don't listen well or take enough time to communicate with them.

 

[TopTomato]

WHat about a perosn who has a 14/3/14? 13/4/13? If the person is well rounded, can communicate effectively in the interview - i would have no issue taking that person over someone with a 9/9/9 , 10/10/10 etc.

When I can get the same score in VR just by putting the same letter answer all the way down as a person can by actually taking it, that shows that, that person's reading comprehension is horrendous. A 3 is not the same as a student who can't break the 6 mark or can't get an 8. A 3 to me shows that you didn't even try at all.

 

[Goro]

I would argue that the reason the person did so well on the other sections was that they didn't have the mental firepower or endurance to perform well in all three categories.

I would be very worried about a 3 or 4VR score. Actually, that's autorejection at my school, no matter how fluent one may be in English.

WHat about a perosn who has a 14/3/14? 13/4/13? If the person is well rounded, can communicate effectively in the interview - i would have no issue taking that person over someone with a 9/9/9 , 10/10/10 etc.

 

[s5260205]

A 3 or 4 on VR means they are at the bottom 5-10% of ALL the test takers. At the end of the day, MCAT is just a standardized test used to objectively rank applicants' academic credentials. Whether MCAT has external validity for students' future performance as a physician is irrelevant. Personally, I would have problems with people who scored this low on VR, native English speakers or not.

 

[UBC2014]

OK fair using 3, 4 as example was too extrem . But I'd say 5+ is fair game if you're ESL?

 

[IslandStyle808]

When I can get the same score in VR just by putting the same letter answer all the way down as a person can by actually taking it, that shows that, that person's reading comprehension is horrendous. A 3 is not the same as a student who can't break the 6 mark or can't get an 8. A 3 to me shows that you didn't even try at all.

Have to really disagree with you, getting a good score is not something that can be always be done with straight up hard work. It "can" means that your prep was not correct or you used prep that was not designed toward your strengths (sometimes the mainstream prep does not work for you). I cannot comment on someone who keeps on getting 3's on exams. However, for the ones that get it a couple of times and then score much better on a 3rd try, it shows they finally figured out the right prep for them.

 

[TopTomato]

Have to really disagree with you, getting a good score is not something that can be always be done with straight up hard work. It "can" means that your prep was not correct or you used prep that was not designed toward your strengths (sometimes the mainstream prep does not work for you). I cannot comment on someone who keeps on getting 3's on exams. However, for the ones that get it a couple of times and then score much better on a 3rd try, it shows they finally figured out the right prep for them.

I get what you're saying. But let's be honest, a 6 isn't even considered a good score. I can understand a student studying and having a hard to getting from a 6-8. A 3 however boggles my mind.

 

[user3]

It's funny how these stories always come down to the "I know a guy who know's a guy".

He posted here more than once stating how his friend with a 22 and 3 vr received multiple interviews. Intrigued, I spoke with him by PM and he stated that his friend was accepted to VCOM-CC and ACOM and received an ii at WCU. I believe him.

 

[TopTomato]

He posted here more than once stating how his friend with a 22 and 3 vr received multiple interviews. Intrigued, I spoke with him by PM and he stated that his friend was accepted to VCOM-CC and ACOM and received an ii at WCU. I believe him.

So you spoke over the internet with a guy who knows a guy.. sounds legit.

Whether that's true or not, that person would have a high likelihood of not passing boards or completing medical school on time. Which is a statistical fact. Accepting such a candidate does neither the school nor the student any favors.

Page 9 for statistics
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

 

[BeanBag2]

This is frustrating to me that people weigh so much on one section score on one test. Very few people have perfect applications, usually everyone has a week spot. Mine just happened to be Verbal as well.
First MCAT: 9/6/8 =23
second MCAT 11/6/11= 28 (weird cause I never got a 6 on any practice test)

I know I am not good at reading articles I have no interest in or no background knowledge about. However, I do not consider myself illiterate in anyway and yes English is my first language. It seems that a lot of med schools looked passed this.

Applied to 11 schools received interviews at 7:

Touro - NY (accepted)
Lecom - bradenton (accepted)
Lecom Seton Hill (Cancelled interview)
UNECOM (waiting decision)
ACOM (cancelled)
CCOM (cancelled)
NYCOM (waiting decision)

If you can communicate effectively in an interview there should be no reason why admissions can not look passed your low verbal grade. I know one grade on one test will not determine how good of a physician I become.

Best of Luck.

 

[Anicetus]

I got 14/5/12 on my recent MCAT no more mcat retake.
undergraduate GPA 3.5ish
master in biology (graduate gpa 3.8-3.9)
lots of research, Asian, CA resident.

When I got a 6 twice I did a ton of research on this.

I had a 14/6/11.

I will say that a 5 will probably kill your chances at MD schools with a very cloudy shot at UCR or Loma Linda if you are a 7th day adventist, being that you are a CA resident and perhaps from the Inland Empire (just took a guess), other wise I don't see MD's taking a liking to the 5. Applying to MD's with a 6 was a nightmare and felt like half of the schools I was spending all the time and money for writing secondaries were just going to reject me anyway, I barely squeaked into two of them.


On the other hand, DO's were light years different with the VR score. I will be surprised if you do not get into a DO school. They will mostly be using your interview as a major test to overcome your VR and will invite you to see how literate you are, pretty much. Use that interview to your advantage if/when granted that opportunity at the DO schools.

Good Luck

 

[user3]

When I got a 6 twice I did a ton of research on this.

I had a 14/6/11.

I will say that a 5 will probably kill your chances at MD schools with a very cloudy shot at UCR or Loma Linda if you are a 7th day adventist, being that you are a CA resident and perhaps from the Inland Empire (just took a guess), other wise I don't see MD's taking a liking to the 5. Applying to MD's with a 6 was a nightmare and felt like half of the schools I was spending all the time and money for writing secondaries were just going to reject me anyway, I barely squeaked into two of them.


On the other hand, DO's were light years different with the VR score. I will be surprised if you do not get into a DO school. They will mostly be using your interview as a major test to overcome your VR and will invite you to see how literate you are, pretty much. Use that interview to your advantage if/when granted that opportunity at the DO schools.

Good Luck

I remember you mentioning a few months ago that your friend with a 3.2 and 24 was admitted to 2 DO schools. Several of us asked you to name the schools but you never responded. Which 2 were they?

 

[medp63]

So you spoke over the internet with a guy who knows a guy.. sounds legit.

Whether that's true or not, that person would have a high likelihood of not passing boards or completing medical school on time. Which is a statistical fact. Accepting such a candidate does neither the school nor the student any favors.

Page 9 for statistics
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

Hello. I am the guy that posted about my friend. He is in ACOM and excelling in everything there(so he says)! And yes, he did make a 3 in verbal (22 total)!

 

[JimmyB123]

WHat about a perosn who has a 14/3/14? 13/4/13? If the person is well rounded, can communicate effectively in the interview - i would have no issue taking that person over someone with a 9/9/9 , 10/10/10 etc.

Lol no one is going to score a 14 on the sciences and then a 3 on verbal.

 

[UBC2014]

Lol no one is going to score a 14 on the sciences and then a 3 on verbal.

You wanna bet?

A girl from my alma mater, scored 14/3/14 and then scored 15/4/15 second try. (The second try, she didn't even prep for the sciences at all and focused solely on VR). ESL student. Pretty much zero chance at any Canadian school due to not meeting the VR cut-off. Not sure whatever happened to her.

 

[s5260205]

You wanna bet?

A girl from my alma mater, scored 14/3/14 and then scored 15/4/15 second try. (The second try, she didn't even prep for the sciences at all and focused solely on VR). ESL student. Pretty much zero chance at any Canadian school due to not meeting the VR cut-off. Not sure whatever happened to her.

It's kind of weird though since PS and BS sections also require reading comprehension. How did she score exceptionally in those two sections but not VR? I wonder how US schools would view these disproportionate scores. Being ESL doesn't really excuse such low VR score either.

 

[JimmyB123]

You wanna bet?

A girl from my alma mater, scored 14/3/14 and then scored 15/4/15 second try. (The second try, she didn't even prep for the sciences at all and focused solely on VR). ESL student. Pretty much zero chance at any Canadian school due to not meeting the VR cut-off. Not sure whatever happened to her.

Wow, I take that back then. It's just pretty surprising though since the science sections (especially BS) require a decent amount of verbal reasoning skills.

 

[Anicetus]

I remember you mentioning a few months ago that your friend with a 3.2 and 24 was admitted to 2 DO schools. Several of us asked you to name the schools but you never responded. Which 2 were they?

If this is the friend I am thinking of, I believe one of them is ATSU-SOMA.

Sorry I have been horrible keeping up with notifications.

 

[becomingdoctor]

I appreciate all your input. I am currently getting two DOs to shadow, preparing applications for the upcoming cycle. I will update frequently as my application goes.

 

[caffeinemia]

If anything, please please please pay someone (like me) to proofread and carefully edit that personal statement for you. I can already foresee it becoming a major obstacle...

 

[67552931811]

So you spoke over the internet with a guy who knows a guy.. sounds legit.

Whether that's true or not, that person would have a high likelihood of not passing boards or completing medical school on time. Which is a statistical fact. Accepting such a candidate does neither the school nor the student any favors.

Page 9 for statistics
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

Lol, gotta love the Internet.

"Bonjour."

 

[AlteredScale]

If anything, please please please pay someone (like me) to proofread and carefully edit that personal statement for you. I can already foresee it becoming a major obstacle...

This is very good advice. I had someone help proofread my PS and she was on a national debate team. It really helped direct my voice to be as strong as possible.

 

[caffeinemia]

This is very good advice. I had someone help proofread my PS and she was on a national debate team. It really helped direct my voice to be as strong as possible.

Yeah, I'm in the process of revamping a guide to writing those things as well: --- derp. apparently I can't advertise my business on here. Redacted!

 

[becomingdoctor]

Hey guys,
I just want to thank you all for your input again since I just got acceptance from one of my top choice, I am cancelling all other interviews besides my #1 choice.
I thought I would never be able to become a doctor when I saw 5 on my VR; many SDNers gave me a lot of encouragement. Without you guys, I probably would never start sending applications.

 

[NotASerialKiller]

Congrats! Nice success story