What is the outlook on these specialties for DOs?

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What are you talking about? 3.6% of PGY2 rads spots went unfilled this cycle (35 spots out of 982), not 7%.

Also, pathologists are not claiming to have a good job market.

Do you think the pathology market will recover? What are the major opportunities for pathologists to get jobs? Clearly these people aren't NOT working.

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[IslandStyle808]

A few DOs on this board had limited research and 240s and matched top 50 or top 20 programs in Gas. Idk if this is applicable to general pop as SDN is a statistical black hole, but it happens.

This proves his point.

 

[67552931811]

Do you think the pathology market will recover? What are the major opportunities for pathologists to get jobs? Clearly these people aren't NOT working.

I have a close family member who is a pathologist. He/she says the market is actually fine right now. I've talked about this somewhat recently if you care to dig through my posts. He/she recently looked for a job (and also spoke to me about recent job huntings of his/her colleagues) and was inundated with opportunities in major market areas (ie Philly, Boston, DC, etc).

I'd take what you read on here with a massive grain of salt.

 

[Dr. Death]

Do you think the pathology market will recover? What are the major opportunities for pathologists to get jobs? Clearly these people aren't NOT working.

From reading the path board on here it sounds like some people are not working

 

[Brorthopedic]

The pathologists are probably trolling all of us... Making 300k+ salaries, working 40 hours/week and keeping it all a secret from us

 

[deleted564680]

The pathologists are probably trolling all of us... Making 300k+ salaries, working 40 hours/week and keeping it all a secret from us

All the pathologist I've interacted with do exactly that.

 

[zero0]

All the pathologist I've interacted with do exactly that.

That would be the smart thing to do. I recently spoke to a pathologist and asked him about the bad job market. He just gave me a blank look like "what bad job market?" SDN is a small, isolated world people...

On a related note, why do we willingly disclose salaries again? Seems like a great way to paint a bull's eye on your back.

 

[doczebra]

That would be the smart thing to do. I recently spoke to a pathologist and asked him about the bad job market. He just gave me a blank look like "what bad job market?" SDN is a small, isolated world people...

On a related note, why do we willingly disclose salaries again? Seems like a great way to paint a bull's eye on your back.

Ehh, given how many path residents are pursuing fellowships and even doing two fellowships for employment reasons...
https://www.ascp.org/content/docs/d...934a-aa99-46ec-a97b-757e69cb97cf.pdf?sfvrsn=2

My school has two types of instructors, foreign physicians that are not licensed and american pathologists. We dont see any other specialty physicians lining up to teach for very little money.

 

[Obama123]

Let's agree to disagree then.

15 years ago: 90.3% US seniors.
10 years ago: 83% US Seniors
5 years ago: 78% US Seniors
Most recent Cycle: 67.3%

Also, 240 usmle doesn't say much about the competitiveness. I'm more familiar with anesthesiology and in this field, a 240 with no research will still get interviews at "top 20" programs. Meanwhile that exact application would, at best, get 1 or 2 derm/ortho interviews in New Mexico/Kansas.

I don't think ANY DOs have matched at "top 20" radiology programs regardless of scores.... I doubt any MDs could match with 240 with zero research either.

From my experience, anesthesia is a lot less competitive than radiology especially at the top programs.

 

[darknecrosforte]

I've been set on Path for a long time now and can easily tell that the job market is completely fine. Yes, they ARE being smart and hush hush about the best specialty.

 

[67552931811]

Ehh, given how many path residents are pursuing fellowships and even doing two fellowships for employment reasons...
https://www.ascp.org/content/docs/d...934a-aa99-46ec-a97b-757e69cb97cf.pdf?sfvrsn=2

My school has two types of instructors, foreign physicians that are not licensed and american pathologists. We dont see any other specialty physicians lining up to teach for very little money.

You have literally no clue what you are talking about. I know of a plethora of non fellowship trained pathologists who recently got great gigs in very "desirable" locations. Just stop talking.

 

[doczebra]

You have literally no clue what you are talking about. I know of a plethora of non fellowship trained pathologists who recently got great gigs in very "desirable" locations. Just stop talking.

Huh, your anecdotal statement vs actual numbers..

And how do you "know of a plethora of non fellowship trained pathologists who recently got great gigs in very "desirable" locations" ?

Every thread always gets premed and med students jumping in who claim to "know multiple PDs in Derm" or say what you just said. Seems like you're in missouri... lmao. I'm sure doing slide on cow feces 50 miles out of KC is "desirable" to you.

 

[67552931811]

Huh, your anecdotal statement vs actual numbers..

And how do you "know of a plethora of non fellowship trained pathologists who recently got great gigs in very "desirable" locations" ?

Every thread always gets premed and med students jumping in who claim to "know multiple PDs in Derm " and basically what you said.

Not anecdotal when it speaks to 4-5 major markets, bud.

? Because I have family members who are pathologists and I've contacted them and their colleagues and talked to them... Lol. Keep speaking of which you don't know, keyboard warrior.

 

[doczebra]

Not anecdotal when it speaks to 4-5 major markets, bud.

? Because I have family members who are pathologists and I've contacted them and their colleagues and talked to them... Lol. Keep speaking of which you don't know, keyboard warrior.

I posted the numbers. You're the one that still comes back with anecdotal evidence AND obvious personal bias. I'm sorry you got butthurt that path isnt an impressive or in-demand field.

Even in medicine, multiple pathologists in one family sounds like a lie. Stay fresh and dont inhale the cow dung out there man.

 

[67552931811]

I posted the numbers. You're the one that still comes back with anecdotal evidence AND obvious personal bias. I'm sorry you got butthurt that path isnt an impressive or in-demand field.

Even in medicine, multiple pathologists in one family sounds like a lie. Stay fresh and dont inhale the cow dung out there man.

I'm not interested in path. Just posting the reality. Keep enjoying your anonymous surveys. Solid "facts" to rest your hat on.

Lol, as if I care if some random **** on the internet questions if my life is in actuality actual.

 

[doczebra]

I'm not interested in path. Just posting the reality. Keep enjoying your anonymous surveys. Solid "facts" to rest your hat on.

Lol, as if I care if some random **** on the internet questions if my life is in actuality actual.

Well it's no sweat off my back. You're the one that thinks: anecdotes> ASCP survey. Path is literally >50% filled with IMGs now anyways. What does that tell you?

You should also get off the internet and use that time to study. God knows you'll need it. After all, you are the one that ended up in bum**** missouri.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'ma go ahead and stop both of you right now before you both end up wasting 20-30 minutes of your time coming up with mildly witty comments that are mainly arousing to one's own senses.

 

[doczebra]

I'ma go ahead and stop both of you right now before you both end up wasting 20-30 minutes of your time coming up with mildly witty comments that are mainly arousing to one's own senses.

Not trying to be witty. Just pointing out that a field filled with >50% IMGs, where 37% double up on fellowships, and still have a subforum full of everyone complaining about unemployment, you cant come in and post something insulting to me based on personal anecdotes about "desirable markets" when they're from illinois and going to school in missouri..

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not trying to be witty. Just pointing out that a field filled with >50% IMGs, where 37% double up on fellowships, and still have a subforum full of everyone complaining about unemployment, you cant come in and post something insulting to me based on personal anecdotes about "desirable markets" when they're from illinois and going to school in missouri..

I'm sure there's complainers in every field and i'm sure that there may be a bright side to some pathology careers. Who knows, I can't really talk on it.

Though mind you that I attend the same school our mutual friend attends. So I'll bother you to not refer to it as Bum**** Missouri.

 

[zero0]

Not trying to be witty. Just pointing out that a field filled with >50% IMGs, where 37% double up on fellowships, and still have a subforum full of everyone complaining about unemployment, you cant come in and post something insulting to me based on personal anecdotes about "desirable markets" when they're from illinois and going to school in missouri..

Whoa **** got real. Good thing Celty stepped in before someone broke out the caps lock.

I'm not going to pretend I have my finger on the pulse of pathology, but I'm willing to bet you don't either. Studies are helpful but they aren't the final word in most cases, and the one you referenced leaves a lot of things up in the air. When only 4% of grads explicitly say that a "desired job was unavailable," that doesn't necessarily mean the job market is what the loudest, most disgruntled voices on SDN make it out to be.

What I got from briefly looking things over was that most path grads prefer to subspecialize because they are interested in those fields (crazy, I know), roughly half who try to find jobs immediately after basic training do, and the ones who don't are likely restricted geographically which all of them seemed to say was a big determining factor in what job they took.

 

[doczebra]

Whoa **** got real. Good thing Celty stepped in before someone broke out the caps lock.

I'm not going to pretend I have my finger on the pulse of pathology, but I'm willing to bet you don't either. Studies are helpful but they aren't the final word in most cases, and the one you referenced leaves a lot of things up in the air. When only 4% of grads explicitly say that a "desired job was unavailable," that doesn't necessarily mean the job market is what the loudest, most disgruntled voices on SDN make it out to be.

What I got from briefly looking things over was that most path grads prefer to subspecialize because they are interested in those fields (crazy, I know), roughly half who try to find jobs immediately after basic training do, and the ones who don't are likely restricted geographically which all of them seemed to say was a big determining factor in what job they took.

I dont need my finger on the pulse. All I need to see to multiple pathologists teaching fulltime at my school for <80k/yr, >50% IMGs, and the damn survey stating that near half are doing fellowships mainly for employment.

I have a petpeeve when premeds and med students jump in with "I know 10 doctors in this field and specifically asked all of them this specific question" blah blah blah. If you follow their posts for a year, it seems like they've met 500 doctors in a year

 

[zero0]

I dont need my finger on the pulse. All I need to see to multiple pathologists teaching fulltime at my school for <80k/yr, >50% IMGs, and the damn survey stating that near half are doing fellowships mainly for employment.

I have a petpeeve when premeds and med students jump in with "I know 10 doctors in this field and specifically asked all of them this specific question" blah blah blah. If you follow their posts for a year, it seems like they've met 500 doctors in a year

Sounds like SDN is getting to you. Might I suggest stepping away from your computer and taking a nice hot bubble bath. You know, light some candles and just girl out.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Sounds like SDN is getting to you. Might I suggest stepping away from your computer and taking a nice hot bubble bath. You know, light some candles and just girl out.

Sigh, not enough people know of the pleasures in life.... and fyi, not girly at all. Soaking in hot water is a battle 4 ur electrolyte balance!

 

[Mr Roboto]

Ehh, given how many path residents are pursuing fellowships and even doing two fellowships for employment reasons...
https://www.ascp.org/content/docs/d...934a-aa99-46ec-a97b-757e69cb97cf.pdf?sfvrsn=2

My school has two types of instructors, foreign physicians that are not licensed and american pathologists. We dont see any other specialty physicians lining up to teach for very little money.

One of our anatomy lecturers is a plastic surgeon...

 

[Bubba88]

I don't think ANY DOs have matched at "top 20" radiology programs regardless of scores.... I doubt any MDs could match with 240 with zero research either.

From my experience, anesthesia is a lot less competitive than radiology especially at the top programs.

Is it true that DOs can't match into top radiology programs? Has anyone interviewed at these places? Guess there is still a strong stigma against DOs in radiology.

 

[deleted564680]

Is it true that DOs can't match into top radiology programs? Has anyone interviewed at these places? Guess there is still a strong stigma against DOs in radiology.

Yes, top radiology programs are as difficult to match into as any program in any field. No top 10-15 program will even interview a DO. UPMC, Yale and Cleveland Clinic take DOs and they would be considered top 20-30 range probably. Once you get outside the top 40ish or so though, almost all programs will consider DOs with the exception of a few biased outliers.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Yes, top radiology programs are as difficult to match into as any program in any field. No top 10-15 program will even interview a DO. UPMC, Yale and Cleveland Clinic take DOs and they would be considered top 20-30 range probably. Once you get outside the top 40ish or so though, almost all programs will consider DOs with the exception of a few biased outliers.

But the real question is...


what's that check like doeeeee?

 

[hallowmann]

What is the job market for path?

Also lots of fields with good demand are filled with IMGs and DOs though. Ex. PMR, Psych, Neuro, FM, etc.

As far as I can tell, path is somewhat saturated in certain big cities, but otherwise fine. There are plenty of jobs around, but people might have to travel for them. The fresh out people I know are in the $300k range.

The only other issue I've noticed is that lots of people are going for fellowships. Some are good, but some might not touch their base salary, and if anything, might make them appear too specialized for general path. Forensics seems in demand, Dermatopath seems like its dwindling, Neuropath might be on its way up, but you might be restricted to big university centers/research powerhouses.

Do you think the pathology market will recover? What are the major opportunities for pathologists to get jobs? Clearly these people aren't NOT working.

If people want any path job, they'll find it. If they want a specific job in a specific city that has 1000 pathologists, chances are it will be tough. That's the issue people are facing.

In the end, pick something because you like it, not because you're scared about the job market. Demand, popularity, job supply, etc. all seems very cyclical in medicine. Obviously some fields (e.g. Psych) will always be in demand almost anywhere barring a huge GME expansion or large scale pharmacologic licensing of Psychologists.

 

[IslandStyle808]

But the real question is...


what's that check like doeeeee?

True dat

But remember

Better program = more competitive fellowship = more options... and sometimes more doeeee

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

True dat

But remember

Better program = more competitive fellowship = more options... and sometimes more doeeee

You do have a point... especially in good cities too I'm guessing? Not a cowtown in the middle of nowhere.