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What is the quality of medical education in Europe?
- Thread starter mac_kin
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As you know, "Europe" is composed of many countries, each with differing qualities of education. However, your post seems to elude to you thinking there is a single blanket medical system in Europe, as if it's one country, not 27 composing the EU, and then the remainder of independents.
The first thing is you said you applied to certain schools, but then you said you didn't talk to anyone. THat's what those schools are there for! You can go there and talk to people and understand their philosophy and how they teach.
There's simply a huge range out there and it's hard to try to compare. The focus is generally answering the problems they have at home and directed towards their own cultures, but you have to consider there is a reason why even international lists have most US schools at the top. UK schools are rated quite good, as are German and Swiss schools. Several French ones are there too.
What schools did you apply to?
If it makes any difference, my physician in the US went to the U of Bologna and I found him to be the most competent physician I've had the pleasure of meeting. He's older, however. Going between Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland, there is likely nothing to worry about with their systems. Some Czech universities are well-respected, same for Poland, and Hungary has US medical programs in English and many of their grads do quite well. I know one personally in the US.
The first thing is you said you applied to certain schools, but then you said you didn't talk to anyone. THat's what those schools are there for! You can go there and talk to people and understand their philosophy and how they teach.
There's simply a huge range out there and it's hard to try to compare. The focus is generally answering the problems they have at home and directed towards their own cultures, but you have to consider there is a reason why even international lists have most US schools at the top. UK schools are rated quite good, as are German and Swiss schools. Several French ones are there too.
What schools did you apply to?
If it makes any difference, my physician in the US went to the U of Bologna and I found him to be the most competent physician I've had the pleasure of meeting. He's older, however. Going between Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland, there is likely nothing to worry about with their systems. Some Czech universities are well-respected, same for Poland, and Hungary has US medical programs in English and many of their grads do quite well. I know one personally in the US.
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Dear Mac_Kin i'm actually an Italian medical student, may be i can help you, check my messenger/fb infos on my profile if you want to chat about it.
I'm going to do your opposite trip, i want to come to USA for my RTP so maybe i can get infos from you ^^
I'm going to do your opposite trip, i want to come to USA for my RTP so maybe i can get infos from you ^^
I have to be honest and tell you that you simply have zero idea of what you're talking about, with regard to taxation and quality of life. You want to move to the land of taxation, taxation, then stealth taxation to escape meager taxation and inexpensive living? Have fun, my friend. Either that, or stop listening to people who WAAAAAAH about the US constantly because they are losers back home and fell prey to the mythical status and propaganda about how much better and sophisticated Europe is. You will then find nothing but the opposite, unless you become a loser ex-pat in Europe, who complains about everything in the US because they ****ed up in the land of social mobility, low taxation, and ease of doing business.Thanks for the feedback.
I have not yet applied but have been thinking about it.
I have found a school in Milan and 2 in poland.
I'm also applying in Canada and US.
For me it is also about quality of life, I'm sick of north american where they tax you to your death, don't guarantee retirement etc. Everything here is so effing expensive. When I talk/write to european friends I've made during my travels, they do also complain about jobs etc, but overall their quality of life is better.
I don't know what to think anymore. Obviously I will go whereever I get in for medical school, but what do you guys think?
Is anyone on here a European med student who wouldn't mind chatting a bit? Or an American studying in Europe??
Thanks
European life is better? Have fun, my friend. Have fun. You will find people, depending on where you are, who dream of moving to the US because of the same reasons you mentioned above. It's simply people fall in love with the myth and fulfill certain ideals.
*and a note-I am doing ok in Europe, living in a capital city in Germany. I had options in both continents, in several countries.
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Can you give me an example of english programs in Sweden and Italy, because I'm quite convinced that at least Sweden only has swedish programs?
The medical schools in Europe are usually training their students to be physicians in that specific country, so it's really a bit pointless to compare how good chances they have in US residency compared to US graduates. Every country in Europe has their own system, so comparing the education in US vs Europe is also quite hard, even though EU has unified the training to some degree.
My personal opinion is, that the high quality english programs are in Great Britain. There is a lot of top quality education in Europe, but it's mostly not open to others (who do not speak the native language). Eastern Europe is basically known as the place where you can get your medical degree with money (you won't finish the program if you don't work hard, but you get in with money). Most med schools I'm familiar with only accept 5-15% of the applicants, so the competition for the spots is very high.
I won't get much into the taxation issue, but I'll just say that the US is very different from Western Europe in many ways, but both are great places to live. Deep down it just depends on your preferences. Free medical school is really a thing that I'm happy about in my country, and the education is good in all of the EU (free as in government paid = high taxes). I'm then free to do whatever I want with my education, pay taxes here or work somewhere with lower tax rates.
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I'd say medical education in most reputable European universities is good enough. Perhaps not the best, but definitely good enough to be competent. In any case, being in the best med school will not guarantee that you'll be a competent doctor; being in a good med school does not necessarily mean you can't be one of the best.
I guess internationally speaking, most people would still be more impressed with a medical degree from the US than one from Europe. If this bothers you, you can always get an MBBS in Europe and do your specialisation in the US.
My biased opinion says that the best English-medium med schools in Europe are in the UK. Go there if you have the moolah to burn (READ: half a million pounds for 5 years). If not, the other options you have are Croatia, Bulgaria and one international programme in Milan Italy. I'm not very sure how reputable and internationally recognised they are though.
Alternative is of course to learn a European language and apply for more renowned non-English-medium medical schools. If you're strapped for cash, this is a good option to choose as you won't be drowning in student loans when you graduate AND you'd have an adequate medical degree at the same time.
I guess internationally speaking, most people would still be more impressed with a medical degree from the US than one from Europe. If this bothers you, you can always get an MBBS in Europe and do your specialisation in the US.
My biased opinion says that the best English-medium med schools in Europe are in the UK. Go there if you have the moolah to burn (READ: half a million pounds for 5 years). If not, the other options you have are Croatia, Bulgaria and one international programme in Milan Italy. I'm not very sure how reputable and internationally recognised they are though.
Alternative is of course to learn a European language and apply for more renowned non-English-medium medical schools. If you're strapped for cash, this is a good option to choose as you won't be drowning in student loans when you graduate AND you'd have an adequate medical degree at the same time.
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I am a second year medical student at the university of Debrecen in Hungary. I came here from Canada and I will say point-blank that I would be surprised to find any other school as demanding as this one. I have friends that attend medical school back in Canada and the quality of education is substantially better here in eastern europe! Here is the reason why:
Medical schools in Canada (and I will assume the US is similar) accept a small number of students each year so only a small number graduate and with such a small number of students the school cant afford to lose many graduate. Therefore, the medical schools hold-hands with the students to make sure everyone passes. I was told by an administrator at a Canadian school, as well as some students, that the hardest part of Canadian med school is getting in. Even some working physicians have informed me about the low quality of new graduates
The school that I am attending, and other schools around here, on the other hand, accept all students that can pass the basic science entrance exam and force the students to work as hard as humanly possible to prove that they deserve to stay. The is no one to hold your hand. The failure rate is quite high but the education is phenomenal! I am grateful that I decided to come here because I know that I will leave here far more prepared than I would be had I stayed at home.
I was sceptical, and quite nervous, at first to go study medicine in eastern europe. Now, I wouldn't leave here to study anywhere else.
Medical schools in Canada (and I will assume the US is similar) accept a small number of students each year so only a small number graduate and with such a small number of students the school cant afford to lose many graduate. Therefore, the medical schools hold-hands with the students to make sure everyone passes. I was told by an administrator at a Canadian school, as well as some students, that the hardest part of Canadian med school is getting in. Even some working physicians have informed me about the low quality of new graduates
The school that I am attending, and other schools around here, on the other hand, accept all students that can pass the basic science entrance exam and force the students to work as hard as humanly possible to prove that they deserve to stay. The is no one to hold your hand. The failure rate is quite high but the education is phenomenal! I am grateful that I decided to come here because I know that I will leave here far more prepared than I would be had I stayed at home.
I was sceptical, and quite nervous, at first to go study medicine in eastern europe. Now, I wouldn't leave here to study anywhere else.
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I'll add my perspective as a Russian born American citizen studying in Russia (in Russian)
As far as I can tell medical education here is great. It's definitely above what I expected it to be. First of all, Russia has a very "Eastern" education system meaning they pile a lot on you and expect you to take it. There's not really any time for slacking (which is what I've heard some people say about foreign schools). We usually have class from 9AM to 6PM and a half day on Saturday. Clinical experience starts from MS2 (out of 6) Since I'm about 80% done with all my basic sciences (just pharm and path to go) I've been looking at First Aid in preparation for the USMLE and although obviously there's some things that I've forgotten there's nothing that looks completely unfamiliar.
One note I will make is that Russian universities (or maybe just mine) don't really emphasize clinical case scenarios and diseases.
Also this is all in the native medium...I have a feeling that those studying in English here are probably having a very different experience.
P.S: Pretty much everything rjhslp said applies for my university as well.
As far as I can tell medical education here is great. It's definitely above what I expected it to be. First of all, Russia has a very "Eastern" education system meaning they pile a lot on you and expect you to take it. There's not really any time for slacking (which is what I've heard some people say about foreign schools). We usually have class from 9AM to 6PM and a half day on Saturday. Clinical experience starts from MS2 (out of 6) Since I'm about 80% done with all my basic sciences (just pharm and path to go) I've been looking at First Aid in preparation for the USMLE and although obviously there's some things that I've forgotten there's nothing that looks completely unfamiliar.
One note I will make is that Russian universities (or maybe just mine
) don't really emphasize clinical case scenarios and diseases. Also this is all in the native medium...I have a feeling that those studying in English here are probably having a very different experience.
P.S: Pretty much everything rjhslp said applies for my university as well.
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in italy you can find good university (particularly in the north but also in the south like naples or rome). our courses are strong and you need to study quite a lot to get good score.
the problem in italy is what happen after for example in the surgery residency or in research but if you are interested only for the md degree you will receive a good formation.
the problem in italy is what happen after for example in the surgery residency or in research but if you are interested only for the md degree you will receive a good formation.
I can only speak for my university (Charles University, Prague, CR). In simple words, it's a nightmare in terms of staying "in" but I absolutely love this university as it has driven me to my limits and continues to push my limits even further. I've learned so much over the past 3 years and I think it was quite intense. My cousins in Oxford and Cambridge were surprised when I told them how the system here works and how one has to work their ***** off just to stay in. You only get to say you study at Charles once you've made it through the first 3 years...until then, nothing is guaranteed!
That's a great marker. I'm glad to hear you're digging it. I have much the same feeling at my school, though I wish it was due to the academics, rather than testing if students can make it based on how scheduling for exams takes place.
However, at the end of each of my semesters, I'm amazed, looking back, at what I was able to do, being convinced from the beginning that it was hopeless.
hi,
i am currently doing my final year of Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery(MBBS) in India. I am planning to take up the MRCS(Member of the Royal college of Surgery) examination late next year. I would like to know the possibilities of pursuing my post-graduation(preferrably in General Surgery, Pediatric Surgery) in Europe, being an Indian citizen, and also the possibilities of working as a Doctor. I also would like to know if the MRCS is recognized an all of Europe apart from the 4 Universities under it(Edinburg.Glasgow,England and Ireland).
please help me out.
Thanks.
i am currently doing my final year of Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery(MBBS) in India. I am planning to take up the MRCS(Member of the Royal college of Surgery) examination late next year. I would like to know the possibilities of pursuing my post-graduation(preferrably in General Surgery, Pediatric Surgery) in Europe, being an Indian citizen, and also the possibilities of working as a Doctor. I also would like to know if the MRCS is recognized an all of Europe apart from the 4 Universities under it(Edinburg.Glasgow,England and Ireland).
please help me out.
Thanks.
Wouldn't it be more sensible to actually go to your school, who administrates this degree, and then ask them?
Please stop trolling
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I think the standard of European medical training is excellent. This is a generalization though but our med schools
Are respected highly.
We do not have a blanket system though.
Post around trolls. When you ignore them, they die
Are respected highly.
We do not have a blanket system though.
Post around trolls. When you ignore them, they die
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Like someone else said you can't group all of Europe together. At most you can group Eastern and Western.
Medical school in Western Europe is at least equal to that in the US, in every way. Clinical skills are generally vastly better in Western Europe than in the US, at least in the UK anyway. There is a huge focus on clinical exams here. In the US they may think they do a lot but that's because they haven't seen what we do. I have worked in both countries and although there is some variation between individuals a med student or junior doctor from the UK will be superior clinically to their US counterpart. How much that matters depends where you want to work though. Each country trains for their own system. In the US they order more tests so don't really need to be as good clinically. In terms of knowledge, in the US they do more hardcore pre-clinical years than some of Western Europe. When I went to the US I was worried that my knowledge would be poor in comparison to their students. It ended up being the opposite. There is a lot of variation in schools though in the US, some places I think I might have come off worse.
In terms of Eastern Europe, clinical skills are likely to be reasonably poor. Pre-clinical years are more hardcore than in the west though so their basic sciences knowledge is generally pretty great.
Medical school in Western Europe is at least equal to that in the US, in every way. Clinical skills are generally vastly better in Western Europe than in the US, at least in the UK anyway. There is a huge focus on clinical exams here. In the US they may think they do a lot but that's because they haven't seen what we do. I have worked in both countries and although there is some variation between individuals a med student or junior doctor from the UK will be superior clinically to their US counterpart. How much that matters depends where you want to work though. Each country trains for their own system. In the US they order more tests so don't really need to be as good clinically. In terms of knowledge, in the US they do more hardcore pre-clinical years than some of Western Europe. When I went to the US I was worried that my knowledge would be poor in comparison to their students. It ended up being the opposite. There is a lot of variation in schools though in the US, some places I think I might have come off worse.
In terms of Eastern Europe, clinical skills are likely to be reasonably poor. Pre-clinical years are more hardcore than in the west though so their basic sciences knowledge is generally pretty great.
