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What specialties can least be done by mid-levels?

Discussion in 'Allopathic' started by SchroedingrsCat, Apr 17, 2012.

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  1. TheRunner

    TheRunner

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    I'm not sure what you are so upset about. You disagree with my goal to one day retire?
  2. phltz

    phltz

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    You may have noticed my post is carefully constructed to mirror yours. I take issue with your condescending tone, and either insufferably smarmy or sarcastic manner. As you are evidently annoyed by my post, it seems you should be able to recognize how annoying yours was.
  3. TheRunner

    TheRunner

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    So you just didn't like my post. Got it.
  4. aphenomenon

    aphenomenon

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    agreed
  5. ToldYouSo

    ToldYouSo Student Gold Donor

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    For those actually in the trenches of medical school/attending... is it wrong to think that a good primary care provider is actually safer from mid-level encroachment? I feel like the breadth of knowledge needed to be competent in all the aspects of FP/IM/Peds makes it harder to take away from. Except for the routine and "simple" BB cases, but every field has those right? Also emergency medicine. Regarding FP, I've heard bluedog say a few times "if you're afraid of being replaced by a midlevel, then you probably should be" or something along those lines.
  6. Oxer45

    Oxer45

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    Doctors have become more managers these days. Best way to describe it is: imagine a academic hospital with one attending and two residents who see pts and do what the attending directs them to do. Now imagine the resident is replaced by a NP or PA. That is how the future of medicine/surgery is starting to look like.
  7. badasshairday

    badasshairday Account on Hold

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    A little bit more envious today. Had a gathering and went out with my significant other and her friends who all are finishing up PA school. Jobs lined up. One of them, at the ripe old age of 24 obtained his first job in the ER with a starting salary of 100 grand. Stung a little, considering I'm 27 getting my MD in one week and have had a more extensive clinical training, but will be starting with a salary that is literally half of these PAs.

    :laugh:
  8. auburnO5

    auburnO5

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    Yeah that kind of sucks. But at the end of the day you'll be a MD and they are still just PA's (no offense to PA's at all). Maybe it doesn't mean as much as it used to, but I don't think I could ever be satisfied with myself knowing that I'm not living up to my full potential.

    That takes the sting out just a little bit for me.
  9. duckie99

    duckie99

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    except his max salary is probably 125k. Your max in radiology could easily >500k. There is no comparison. Also even in residency you'll be getting close to 50k. I honestly would be unhappy making less than 350k when all is said and done.
  10. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    >500k is not at all common in radiology anymore.
  11. duckie99

    duckie99

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    ok well he'll still make way more than 125k. Medscape 2012 I think put radiology around 350k average.
  12. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    It was 315, and it has decreased by 10% each year for the past 2-3 with no end in sight. Academic averages are lower, and as hospitals continue to fire PP groups to replace them with national tele-radiology firms and hospital employer models, academic level salaries (~$150k-350k) will probably be the norm.

    An MD is a guaranteed 6 figure salary. Any assumptions made beyond that are not necessarily realistic.
  13. Setto

    Setto

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    Hit the nail right on the head. Well put.
  14. primadonna22274

    primadonna22274 Senior Member

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    A new grad PA starting at $100k is unusual and regional/specialty-dependent. The trouble is that high starting salary caps out pretty quick.
    My starting PA salary was $53k/yr in 2000 in FP, F/T (low even then but did have great benefits). Had a steady upward trend over a decade but had to change jobs a few times and negotiate and relocate. Most I ever made was about $115k with 10+ yr practice (rural SC EM) with a broad scope working 200 hr/mo.
    If I can approach $200k as a physician working a little less than that I will be very happy.
  15. badasshairday

    badasshairday Account on Hold

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    53K is extremely low, and you did admit that yourself. Plus that was 12 years ago. A lot has changed in that time. These new grads will NOT take a job that pays less than 70K. 70K is low pay today, and it is barely an acceptable minimum. Just saying.

    I do concede his salary is pretty high for a new grad, but 70-80K starting is not unheard of. It is just pretty nice to be in your early 20's and making 100K per year in my opinion versus going through all the stuff we go through in med school. We get paid finally when we have gray hairs on our heads. Oh well. :laugh: I still wouldn't change a thing. Medical training is the cost to be the boss.

    When I see these young stupid premeds who want to do medicine for the $, it just makes me laugh. If your goal is a lot of money and want to help people, I'd say the PA route is nice. Getting paid big money in your 20's is nice, without all the stress, liability, and cost to be a physician.
  16. primadonna22274

    primadonna22274 Senior Member

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    Neglected to mention it was $53k for 3 mos then $57k after I passed PANCE (in those days was only offered twice a year).
    It was about $7-10k less than many of my classmates at the time but it had other non tangible benefits and was a fantastic learning opportunity.
    I've had new grads offered $120k/yr in GA (hospitalist) and others $75-85k in rural SC & GA primary care with possible loan repayment.
    FWIW, the girl offered $120k was too stupid to keep the job. Book-smart and personal-life wreck.
    I think the avg is still around $80k new grad though. The problem that arises is there is little room to advance to max salary if you start at $100k and think that's normal.
    Not that I am doing this for the money...far from it. I talked myself out of med school for 10 yr because of the expense and lost income. Ultimately decided I needed the knowledge and independence afforded to becoming a physician.
  17. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    The advantages of the PA route are that it is quick and that it is flexible.

    You will earn more money in the beginning, less at the end, than an MD, so for those considering an abbreviated or part-time career it can be a very good option.

    If you're going to be practicing full time >30 years, you'll almost certainly make more as an MD.

    I agree with you that going into medicine for money is silly, but think you're overselling the PA route.

    If you can get into a top 5 law school, there are still corporate jobs for $160k right after you finish (these jobs are finally picking up again after the recession, but too late for people who graduated in the middle of it).

    And there are still wall street options, although far fewer than a few years ago.

    The value of an MD isn't the mean or maximum salary, it's the variance. The highs and lows are much closer together than most other fields.

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