What to do when your Carib MD friend bashes DO school

[Dr. Zombie]

So, news update everyone. Now my Carib MD friend is not answering my phone calls or messages. I feel so bad to lose a good friend. I hope she comes around and gets over this funk.

Define how she is a good friend exactly?

Also did you say something to her recently that she's taken this distance?

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[Temperature101]

So, news update everyone. Now my Carib MD friend is not answering my phone calls or messages. I feel so bad to lose a good friend. I hope she comes around and gets over this funk.

Does he/she know you started this post on SDN?

 

[Seth Joo]

Seth Joo... offering up troll posts since October 2013.

How is that a troll post? DO schools have much stricter admissions standards than offshore Caribbean medical schools. Caribbean schools accept students knowing that a very large percent will not graduate and will not become doctors.

Not all foreign medical schools are the same. There are excellent medical schools in Canada, the UK, and Ireland. Canadian medical schools are tougher to get into than American medical schools, in fact, I know some Canadians at my DO program.

 

[Member10billion]

Define how she is a good friend exactly?

Also did you say something to her recently that she's taken this distance?

We've been BFFs since freshman year of high school. Always had fun.... girl stuff, ya know? I asked her how she is doing... I am so baffled by this situation. From my perspective, I have not changed with her. I have not insulted her. I have only tried to be a good friend. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON!

 

[coolingglasses]

So, news update everyone. Now my Carib MD friend is not answering my phone calls or messages. I feel so bad to lose a good friend. I hope she comes around and gets over this funk.

Sometimes people grow apart for a reason. I make an effort to maintain all my friends but if I find someone to be increasingly toxic, I'm okay with drifting apart.

 

[LittleDodger]

We've been BFFs since freshman year of high school. Always had fun.... girl stuff, ya know? I asked her how she is doing... I am so baffled by this situation. From my perspective, I have not changed with her. I have not insulted her. I have only tried to be a good friend. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON!

I totally know your pain. But sometimes, though tough and really confusing, you just have to cut your losses. Just think if you met her today, as she is right now, would you be friends with her? My guess would be probably not.

 

[costales]

It's a long journey. Ditch all unnecessary baggage.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Honestly nobody in the general public cares where you go to medical school. Probably ~half of the public thinks they are smarter than their doc anyway.

Competition will always exist within the medical community over prestige. Even if you were a graduate from Duke, some dual degree wielding chief resident from Harvard would still question your education. That's just how it works.

Believe me, this will not be the only time somebody puts down your DO letters. Learn how to handle it now, before its a preceptor/resident/attending.

 

[Member10billion]

Honestly nobody in the general public cares where you go to medical school. Probably ~half of the public thinks they are smarter than their doc anyway.

Competition will always exist within the medical community over prestige. Even if you were a graduate from Duke, some dual degree wielding chief resident from Harvard would still question your education. That's just how it works.

Believe me, this will not be the only time somebody puts down your DO letters. Learn how to handle it now, before its a preceptor/resident/attending.

Yeah. Usually I am pretty indifferent about what other people say. I'm proud of how far I've come. But it bothers me when someone I've been close with for so many years is negative.

 

[Member10billion]

Does he/she know you started this post on SDN?

Heeeeeeeck no. I don't even think she knows what SDN is.
ValueMD WUT WUUUUT

 

[Escape_Goat]

Define how she is a good friend exactly?

Also did you say something to her recently that she's taken this distance?

He showed her this thread.

I've never had a friend tell me to go to the Caribbean over a DO school. Then again, most of my friends aren't dumb...

 

[yanks26dmb]

Make a thread about it on SDN...clearly..

 

[pattr]

How is that a troll post? DO schools have much stricter admissions standards than offshore Caribbean medical schools. Caribbean schools accept students knowing that a very large percent will not graduate and will not become doctors.

Not all foreign medical schools are the same. There are excellent medical schools in Canada, the UK, and Ireland. Canadian medical schools are tougher to get into than American medical schools, in fact, I know some Canadians at my DO program.

Sure. But to call a school a "diploma mill" is disrespectful to all the Caribbean grads that work hard to do well on the Steps and in rotations and eventually match at a competitive residency.

 

[Seth Joo]

Sure. But to call a school a "diploma mill" is disrespectful to all the Caribbean grads that work hard to do well on the Steps and in rotations and eventually match at a competitive residency.

LOL. Your political correctness is ????. I just say it like it is, the island schools are businesses catering to students who did not get into US medical schools. There are probably a good number of students that these schools who could have went the DO path.

There are plenty of good foreign schools, I would not list the Caribbean programs with them.

 

[Total180]

An acquaintance of mine is in the carib right now. He is on FB all the time. I'm going to be curious how step 1 goes for him...

To be fair I had facebook open whenever I studied first and second year...it was really my only link to the outside world. I did fine on COMLEX.

 

[68quebec]

i would say 'see you on match day, good luck'

 

[Seth Joo]

i would say 'see you on match day, good luck'

That is so true, the island medical school graduates can only apply to ACGME residency programs, and they need excellent board scores to match. As a DO you can go for the AOA match.

 

[bravomavo]

I find it funny that all the DO fans, who claim that DO is just as great as US-MD and that they should be as respected even though their admission requirements aren't as great as US-MD admission requirements, start bashing Carib-MD's because they are "diploma mills" and their admission requirements aren't as strict as theirs. Isn't that a bit ironic?

In the end, if you work hard, you will be a good doctor, regardless of where you went to med school, but if you keep bashing carib-MD's for being THE med school for third tier pre-meds, then don't get mad when people claim DO granting institutions are THE home for second tier pre-meds.

People mess up in college and have different circumstances than you .. thats why most of you are pursuing or are in DO schools. Stop hating on carib-MD's for the same thing.

 

[laricb]

I would laugh at her, Caribbean schools are diploma mills. Unless she went to a medical school in England or somewhere in Western Europe, maybe she might have a point.

http://www.nrmp.org/just-published-...tcomes-match-international-medical-graduates/

Check this article out I believe pg 15 SGU had close to a 70% match rate on first choice. I like this diploma mill

 

[pattr]

http://www.nrmp.org/just-published-...tcomes-match-international-medical-graduates/

Check this article out I believe pg 15 SGU had close to a 70% match rate on first choice. I like this diploma mill

Are you talking about chart #15 on pg 22 where Grenada had ~67% (534 matched, 258 unmatched) in the 2013 match? Because that's not reflective of the #1 choice program match rate nor the first choice of specialty match rate. It's just the overall match rate... and 70% is relatively low for the overall match rate.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Are you talking about chart #15 on pg 22 where Grenada had ~67% (534 matched, 258 unmatched) in the 2013 match? Because that's not reflective of the #1 choice program match rate nor the first choice of specialty match rate. It's just the overall match rate... and 70% is relatively low for the overall match rate.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Are you talking about chart #15 on pg 22 where Grenada had ~67% (534 matched, 258 unmatched) in the 2013 match? Because that's not reflective of the #1 choice program match rate nor the first choice of specialty match rate. It's just the overall match rate... and 70% is relatively low for the overall match rate.

70% is extremely low, especially if we take in consideration that this rate is AFTER 30-50% attrition rate. All in all, those who went to the Caribbean, be it SGU or Saba, have a 50% chance of never practicing medicine in the US.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

70% is extremely low, especially if we take in consideration that this rate is AFTER 30-50% attrition rate. All in all, those who went to the Caribbean, be it SGU or Saba, have a 50% chance of never practicing medicine in the US.

A friend who rushed wanting to go to med school and didn't want DO after his name, has decided to go for Family Medicine after seeing his friends go unmatched and he doesn't want to risk aiming for a specialty too high it will cost him his career.

 

[laricb]

70% is extremely low, especially if we take in consideration that this rate is AFTER 30-50% attrition rate. All in all, those who went to the Caribbean, be it SGU or Saba, have a 50% chance of never practicing medicine in the US.

 

[laricb]

I wouldnt consider 70% a diploma mill what was the overall DO match rate

 

[Postictal Raiden]

A friend who rushed wanting to go to med school and didn't want DO after his name, has decided to go for Family Medicine after seeing his friends go unmatched and he doesn't want to risk aiming for a specialty too high it will cost him his career.

Well, he should consider himself a very luck M.D. At least he got a residency spot while others wind up working as lab techs for 20 bucks an hour.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I wouldnt consider 70% a diploma mill what was the overall DO match rate

Can't speak for all DO schools since I don't have the data, but the school that I'm heading to has a match rate of 100% and an attrition rate of less than 5%

 

[laricb]

70% is extremely low, especially if we take in consideration that this rate is AFTER 30-50% attrition rate. All in all, those who went to the Caribbean, be it SGU or Saba, have a 50% chance of never practicing medicine in the US.

Its not 30 to 50% at SGU

 

[laricb]

Can't speak for all DO schools since I don't have the data, but the school that I'm heading to has a match rate of 100% and an attrition rate of less than 5%

I believe the overall DO Match rate was 76%

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I believe the overall DO Match rate was 76%

According to data found online, ~5200 started their DO education in 2009. Last year, ~2000 of those matched AGCME positions and ~2000 matched AOA residency positions after the scramble. With only these, the match rate is ~77%. However, we also need to consider that a considerable number of grads matched military positions and few matched MD Ophtho and Uro. Also, I'm using the number of first year enrollment, not the number of graduates (we need to account for ~10% attrition rate). Therefore, the match rate is clearly significantly higher than what you believe it is.

 

[pattr]

I believe the overall DO Match rate was 76%

If that number is even a true number (not sure where you got it), it would only be in the ACGME match.

If you combine the ACGME and AOA matches, the overall match rate for DO's in 2011 was 89% (1895 of 2114). (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/md-vs-do-vs-caribbean-hard-facts-and-statistics.813819/)

 

[Postictal Raiden]

"29% of our graduating classes obtain residencies not through the National Resident Match Program"
https://apps.sgu.edu/ERD/2013/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

The above quote is from SGU website. Up until last match, IMG's and FMG's had the privilige of participating the something called pre-match. This will no longer be the case.

 

[pattr]

I wouldnt consider 70% a diploma mill what was the overall DO match rate

Btw if you look back in this thread I actually agree with you that people like Seth Joo shouldn't be calling Caribbean schools "diploma mills." Call them easier to get into, call them a second option, etc... but I have met enough Caribbean students and grads that the docs who come out of that system, excel, and perform well in the match are some of the most capable people I know. They work hard for the degree they earn and deserve to be called doctor.

 

[laricb]

Btw if you look back in this thread I actually agree with you that people like Seth Joo shouldn't be calling Caribbean schools "diploma mills." Call them easier to get into, call them a second option, etc... but I have met enough Caribbean students and grads that the docs who come out of that system, excel, and perform well in the match are some of the most capable people I know. They work hard for the degree they earn and deserve to be called doctor.

I posted on your quote by mistake we both agree not all carib schools are a bad choices

 

[laricb]

"29% of our graduating classes obtain residencies not through the National Resident Match Program"
https://apps.sgu.edu/ERD/2013/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

The above quote is from SGU website. Up until last match, IMG's and FMG's had the privilige of participating the something called pre-match. This will no longer be the case.

That report was from 2013 pre match didnt exist

 

[laricb]

According to data found online, ~5200 started their DO education in 2009. Last year, ~2000 of those matched AGCME positions and ~2000 matched AOA residency positions after the scramble. With only these, the match rate is ~77%. However, we also need to consider that a considerable number of grads matched military positions and few matched MD Ophtho and Uro. Also, I'm using the number of first year enrollment, not the number of graduates (we need to account for ~10% attrition rate). Therefore, the match rate is clearly significantly higher than what you believe it is.

You can twist the numbers anyway you want I just stated that SGU is a well respected school that exists in the carib

 

[Postictal Raiden]

You can twist the numbers anyway you want I just stated that SGU is a well respected school that exists in the carib

I present you with hard evidence data and you accuse me of twisting the numbers. What about wrongly stating that the overall DO match rate was 76%? Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. The match rate of DO grads applying for AGCME is ~76%, and that only represents approximately half of the grads since the other half participate in the AOA match.

 

[medickdb]

I agree. If they were true diploma mills, then the degrees from these locations would be completely worthless. Obviously, this isn't the case as these graduates do have the ability to practice in the United States with the degrees they earned. They have to be able to pass the same tests in the end, too.

The argument about the ability to obtain a good residency is a different one. Work hard and do well, more is possible though. This is true of any school.

There are individuals at US MD, DO, and CaribMD schools who work their butts and there are also lazy students. It happens.

I don't care where someone went to medical school personally as long as he or she is competent. That physician can really come from anywhere.

Search physicians in your respective areas. You may find that many did not go to school either in the US or in the Caribbean.

If someone chooses to come from elsewhere and practice in the United States, he or she has made that choice. What business of it is ours? In fact, he or she may be involved in your education and/or employment one day and you may never realize it.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Just like @Ibn Alnafis MD, I'll be attending another DO school which also achieved a 100% match rate. I'll be waiting for a Carib school that can say the same.

@laricb reminds me of @Member10billion's alleged "friend" who praised CaribMD and felt DO schools were less favorable to attend. All this defense is just to fuel their false securities and justifications for attending one of these schools.

I know DO schools are not perfect. I already made peace with my decision after looking at the facts, the numbers, the match locations etc. DO > Carib no matter how you try turn it.

@laricb just come out and say you're Member10billion's friend lol

 

[Member10billion]

Yes, there are good Carib docs. The problem comes with the quality of their education, since there may not be as many restrictions on class size, teacher attentiveness, etc. A good doc can take his or her education and use it to take care of their patients the best way they can.

A friend who rushed wanting to go to med school and didn't want DO after his name, has decided to go for Family Medicine after seeing his friends go unmatched and he doesn't want to risk aiming for a specialty too high it will cost him his career.

That is really sad.

 

[Seth Joo]

http://www.nrmp.org/just-published-...tcomes-match-international-medical-graduates/

Check this article out I believe pg 15 SGU had close to a 70% match rate on first choice. I like this diploma mill

SGU takes in large numbers of students, many of whom never complete, I wonder what the real rate would be if you tallied in all students that started at SGU, including those that they lose.
DOs have the added safety of the AOA match, many students go to AOA residencies, and many to ACGME.

 

[mcloaf]

The problem comes with the quality of their education, since there may not be as many restrictions on class size, teacher attentiveness, etc.

This becomes pretty much irrelevant once they complete residency.

 

[SIGINT]

Who cares which school is better. Just make sure you are prepared for competing for residency spots after 4 years.

 

[Seth Joo]

Just like @Ibn Alnafis MD, I'll be attending another DO school which also achieved a 100% match rate. I'll be waiting for a Carib school that can say the same.

@laricb reminds me of @Member10billion's alleged "friend" who praised CaribMD and felt DO schools were less favorable to attend. All this defense is just to fuel their false securities and justifications for attending one of these schools.

I know DO schools are not perfect. I already made peace with my decision after looking at the facts, the numbers, the match locations etc. DO > Carib no matter how you try turn it.

@laricb just come out and say you're Member10billion's friend lol

DO schools are certainly not perfect, but I think they offer better chances to become a physician compared to Caribbean offshore for profit schools. I would be very skeptical of any numbers any Caribbean school mentions regarding their graduates.

There are excellent offshore medical schools, the Caribbean would not be among them. I have a friend who goes to a school in Ireland via Atlantic Bridge, he had excellent MCATs and a high GPA, could not get into any Allopathic schools and decided to go to Ireland for his education.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

DO schools are certainly not perfect, but I think they offer better chances to become a physician compared to Caribbean offshore for profit schools. I would be very skeptical of any numbers any Caribbean school mentions regarding their graduates.

There are excellent offshore medical schools, the Caribbean would not be among them. I have a friend who goes to a school in Ireland via Atlantic Bridge, he had excellent MCATs and a high GPA, could not get into any Allopathic schools and decided to go to Ireland for his education.

Yeah International programs are looked at differently than tropical island ones. If I had my pick, I would even go as far as doing Australia if not in the UK.

 

[cliquesh]

I present you with hard evidence data and you accuse me of twisting the numbers. What about wrongly stating that the overall DO match rate was 76%? Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. The match rate of DO grads applying for AGCME is ~76%, and that only represents approximately half of the grads since the other half participate in the AOA match.

In 2013, 2178 DOs matched an AOA position and 621 failed to matched an AOA position.

2178/(2178+621) = 78% AOA match rate*

*This number includes reapplicants and the military match.
https://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2013sklstats.html

With a 75% Acgme match rate and a 78% AOA match rate, a lot of DOs must scramble or SOAP. In the end, however, nearly 100% of DOs find a post graduate position somewhere.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

In 2013, 2178 DOs matched an AOA position and 621 failed to matched an AOA position.

2178/(2178+621) = 78% AOA match rate*

*This number includes reapplicants and the military match.
https://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2013sklstats.html

With a 75% Acgme match rate and a 78% AOA match rate, a lot of DOs must scramble or SOAP. In the end, however, nearly 100% of DOs find a post graduate position somewhere.

I stand corrected, but my point still stands that the overall match rate of DO grads is much higher than 76%.

What is the difference between scramble and SOAP?

On a side note, there were 4913 DO grads last year and in 2009 the number of first-year enrollment was 5222. This reflects a graduation rate of 94%
http://www.aacom.org/data/graduates/Documents/Apps_Enroll_Grads_byCOM_2006-11.pdf

 

[kderekb]

It's a long journey. Ditch all unnecessary baggage.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Cipher9422]

http://www.nrmp.org/just-published-...tcomes-match-international-medical-graduates/

Check this article out I believe pg 15 SGU had close to a 70% match rate on first choice. I like this diploma mill

you aren't taking into account those who did not make it through all four years.

 

[Cipher9422]

I wouldnt consider 70% a diploma mill what was the overall DO match rate

The same as the MD match rate. Also drop out rates are similar to MD's as well.

People have to understand that Osteopathic schools usually have an acceptance rate of 2-4%. Allopathic acceptance rates are usually 1-2%. Do you really think they are going to let their students not match? Too much is invested in them and those attending are among the nation's brightest individuals.