PhD/PsyD What's graduate school like?

[NeuroDroid]

So, I'm still at the early stages of my career trying to decide between the MD or PhD route. I'm fairly confident that I know what medical school is like (in terms of the curriculum, the stress, the hours per week, the structure, etc.) However, I can't seem to find any threads on what graduate school is like. I'm specifically interested in Clinical Psychology grad school. I know everyone's experience will greatly depend on the university they attended but what's a week like in grad school? Schedule? Stress? Hours worked? Time spent at the lab, teaching duties, practicums, reading, etc? When looking at graduate school pages all I can find out is the curriculum but not much about the actual day-to-day activities. So, what was it like for you? Was it fun? Was it as soul-sucking as medical school seems to be?

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[WisNeuro]

This will vary so widely, there is no easy answer. What kind of program are you in, research, balanced, mostly clinical? Also, even within a program, if you ask a 1st, 2nd, 3rd year etc, you will get a vastly different answer as well.

I went to a fully funded balanced PhD. Overall, my 5 years in grad school were great. I had supportive advisors, great prac placements, and made some close friends that I still talk to regularly today. My advice is to talk to some people across programs and years to get a sampling. Also, think about what the end goal is. What do you want to be doing in 10, 15+ years down the road.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

It's pretty intense...a full academic PhD program with 20 hr. week practicum plus small caseload in the student clinic was standard for me after the first year (plus dissertation research). I had a lot of friends in the non-clinical doctoral programs (social, cognitive, etc.) and they had time to work on their golf game, hobbies, etc. However, I really loved doing both the academic and clinical stuff and so it was all good. Since it is a smaller cohort it is probably more of a 'your mileage may vary' deal than medical school (depending on your major professor, your lab-mates, etc.).

 

[WisNeuro]

Oh, I also much preferred clinical psych grad classes to med school classes. More emphasis on critical thinking and synthesis as opposed to rote memorization.

 

[soccercat]

More emphasis on critical thinking and synthesis as opposed to rote memorization.

I've been in two psych grad programs (a terminal MA and a PhD) and in both of them there was a fair share of classes that utilized both sets of learning (critical thinking AND memorization).

That being said, I think that something that people outside of the psych world do not realize is that we are a cross between a medical field and a social science. During orientation our DCT told us to expect to do 40-80 hours of work a week between our different responsibilities (classes, research, clinical work, teaching, etc.). I felt like my early years in school were intense filled with book learning and memorization of clinical information and research protocol and later classes and educational experiences were about taking this information and learning to apply it critically. It has been an intense experience requiring a lot of personal fortitude and determination, but it has also been rewarding enough to get me through the difficult humps as well (nothing makes it worth it like your first patient who says "thank you, you have really helped me"). It's also longer than Med school and thus requires a lot endurance to get through.

I'd think about what you want to do with your life when you graduate and what kind of skills you want to acquire through your education because PhD programs are no joke and not the easy way out. As an aside, I don't know if it is still like this, but when I initially applied to graduate school based on the statistics I think that Clinical Psych PhD programs were more competitive than Med School and Law School programs (100+ applicants for 5-8 spots vs. 200 applicants for 60+ spots).

 

[PsychPhDone]

As others have said, it'll depend on the type of program you want to enter, other program-specific things, and the year. For example, in my (research heavy) program, we didn't teach or have clinical work (aside from intro to assessment coursework/associated practica) the first year, so first year was focused on classes and research. First year, I think I was in classes for about 12 hours week, doing homework/reading about 10 hours/week, meetings and colloquia about 4 hours/week, and research 35-45 hours/week. My cohort went out for happy hour, etc. probably a couple days a week, plus some sort of weekend event. I made time to go to the gym most days. The weeks before conferences/finals/grant deadlines were more stressful.

I know I replied to a similar thread a few years ago, and I'd be curious to know if I'm remembering this accurately! I do remember that my first year of grad school felt like a cakewalk compared with my full-time RA job.

 

[WisNeuro]

I've been in two psych grad programs (a terminal MA and a PhD) and in both of them there was a fair share of classes that utilized both sets of learning (critical thinking AND memorization).

Oh there is that too, but you may notice a significant difference on where those emphases lie in each type of class. If you ever get the chance to take those med school classes, I urge you to do so. It's an interesting experience.

 

[deleted343839]

Speaking for my own experience only:

I attended a research-focused clinical Ph.D. program. The first few years were the most challenging, as this was when the coursework was most intensive, my research was just getting off the ground, and the learning curve was steepest for clinical work. Because I was learning and doing a lot of new things at once, I had to focus on time management like never before. Neither in college nor in the couple of years I spent in full-time employment afterward had I ever had so many responsibilities. It was a lot of work, but in truth grad school was not a bad way to spend most of my 20s. I still had time to socialize and pursue outside interests, though there were also long stretches of time (weeks or months) when I had to put those things on the back burner. 12+ hour days were not rare, especially in the earlier years. Through it all, there was only one year that even approached "soul-sucking," though situational/chance factors played a significant role.

Throughout graduate school my default location was my advisor's lab. I worked there on my advisor's projects and my own, taking breaks to go to my classes, clinic appointments, etc. and then returning to "the office." I treated it like a full time job, so I usually went in early to get a jump start on my day. There was a social side of belonging to a lab with 2-4 other students, depending on the year. Though we all had our personalities and quirks, for the most part we were supportive of one another. My identity was tied more to my lab than to the student cohort for my year. Depending on where my funding was coming from in any given semester, I spent a portion of my time either being a TA or being an RA for my advisor, but in the year before internship I received a competitive fellowship and I could hone in on my dissertation. For a couple of years I went off campus a day or two a week for practicum, which intensified the time management demands.

Hope that helps... happy to answer specific questions if you are looking at this type of training.

 

[NeuroDroid]

I really appreciate all the feedback, especially those of you sharing your experience. I hope more people chime in. Thanks!

 

[Chalupacabra]

I'm finishing up a CAS (69 credit, three year program) in School Psych, so it's a fairly different experience in some ways, but I'd echo a lot of what's been said - you'll need to learn time management and the delicate balance between getting a massive amount of work done (and done to a high standard) and taking care of yourself. In my program everyone worked at least 20-25 hours a week since there was limited funding outside of GAs, which paid well but are only part time ($20/hr for ten hours a week) and couldn't quite cover all living expenses for most people. Summers we only had one class our first year and two our second year, so a lot of people would try to find a full time job and save up then, but again this will vary - the Ph.D. program I'm entering in the fall is 125 credits and as a result you take a full course load in the summer too.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I loved graduate school. I went to an MA program and then a PsyD program. MA program was all classwork teaching the fundamentals of psychological practice including therapy, assessment, research, and theory. The doctoral program was evenly split with about half class-time and half clinical time and half dissertation time. My clinical rotations included adolescent community-based early intervention program, academic medical center neuropsych, adolescent inpatient unit, and VA hospital where I did three four month rotations. The experiences that I received were excellent and I am glad that I did not spend much time at our schools counseling center (one patient i obtained for clinical comps exam) as those broad experiences prepared me more than some of my peers. The classroom discussions were very stimulating as we strove (strived?) to integrate what we were learning and knew with what we were seeing at our various sites. I also worked as a Graduate Assistant helping one of our neuropsych professors teach an MA class on cognitive assessment and assist with her research on dementia. I was extremely busy and never bored.

 

[NeuroDroid]

I loved graduate school. I went to an MA program and then a PsyD program. MA program was all classwork teaching the fundamentals of psychological practice including therapy, assessment, research, and theory. The doctoral program was evenly split with about half class-time and half clinical time and half dissertation time. My clinical rotations included adolescent community-based early intervention program, academic medical center neuropsych, adolescent inpatient unit, and VA hospital where I did three four month rotations. The experiences that I received were excellent and I am glad that I did not spend much time at our schools counseling center (one patient i obtained for clinical comps exam) as those broad experiences prepared me more than some of my peers. The classroom discussions were very stimulating as we strove (strived?) to integrate what we were learning and knew with what we were seeing at our various sites. I also worked as a Graduate Assistant helping one of our neuropsych professors teach an MA class on cognitive assessment and assist with her research on dementia. I was extremely busy and never bored.

That sounds genuinely fun. I'm definitely more interested in grad school than I am in med school (Although I'm very interested in medicine) but sometimes I think of how much more doctors are paid and....well, I'm not trying to say I'd make a decision based purely on salary but it's a huge difference, you know? Anyways, hearing everyone's grad school experience really makes me want to continue towards the PhD path. Decisions...decisions.

 

[MCParent]

I loved graduate school (PhD, counseling psych). Wonderful, amazing, supportive advisor and an amazing cohort. Town was nice enough--ok enough to be distracting but not so lively that I was too distracted. By far, my biggest steps in learning happened with wine on saturday nights in spending time with my cohort. Classes were wonderful of course, but actually talking out complex issues with my trusted friends was also important. I couldn't imagine what a program would be like with a combative cohort. I easily did 60-80 hour weeks nearly every week and it almost never felt like work. I didn't prac as hard as many people on the board did.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I don't know if this helps, and I certainly don't 100% know what med school is like, but what I liked most about grad school was the autonomy. I chose when to do research, and I decided what my clinical hours were. With the exception of classes and meetings, I basically made my own schedule. This flexibility might be disappearing from my program (though I hope not -- I think the autonomy helped me learn to be productive).

*The people were actually the best part, but that's harder to guarantee.

 

[smalltownpsych]

That sounds genuinely fun. I'm definitely more interested in grad school than I am in med school (Although I'm very interested in medicine) but sometimes I think of how much more doctors are paid and....well, I'm not trying to say I'd make a decision based purely on salary but it's a huge difference, you know? Anyways, hearing everyone's grad school experience really makes me want to continue towards the PhD path. Decisions...decisions.

Definitely mo' money in medicine. Some days I regret not making that choice for the financial reasons and sometimes because of the meds issue, but the bottom line is that I made the right choice for me and my patients and the people who I provide consultation for. My skill set as a psychologist gives me an edge in many settings. I also am working hard to bring our salaries up and would appreciate others coming into the field that recognize the importance of promoting our field financially as well. Right now I work in a hospital alongside medical docs and one of my fiends is an ortho surgeon. He makes more money but I wouldn't want to do his job day in and day out. Of course, the other docs think it would be hard talking to depressed people every day. I told one the other day that he does talk to them everyday but I have the tools to help them so that makes the difference.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I felt like grad school was a miserable experience. I hated it as did pretty much everyone in my program (fully-funded R1). However, I would say that was 95% due to the specific professors affiliated with my program. The work was significant, but manageable with some sacrifices. The professors' critical, unsupportive behavior wasn't as easily managed. It also was difficult dealing with such a faculty because there is a lot of subjectivity in moving through grad school (that I imagine isn't there for med school). There were definitely students in the program who were mistreated and held to different standards. I definitely would not want to repeat this chapter in my life.

But I really wouldn't base too much of my decision on a career path on whether you'd enjoy grad school or med school more. Both will likely be very hard and all-consuming. You need to think about the career that follows.

Good luck!

 

[WisNeuro]

Meh, money can be had in psych too. You just have to want to get the experience and do the work. Some areas of forensics outperform areas in medicine pretty easily. In the end, enjoying what you do is more important to me than gross salary. Although I do pretty well there anyway.

 

[NeuroDroid]

Meh, money can be had in psych too. You just have to want to get the experience and do the work. Some areas of forensics outperform areas in medicine pretty easily. In the end, enjoying what you do is more important to me than gross salary. Although I do pretty well there anyway.

I get you. I'm very interested in neuropsychology and forensic psychology. Though money can be had in forensics, I've heard it's a long, long, long road and requires years of clinical experience. So, it's not like they're making that kind of money just a few years after training. (In comparison to MD's) I mean it's not like I'd be starving as a psychologist. (I hope). But I agree with you. I want to enjoy what I do more than I want a luxurious or even comfortable life. The thing is, I volunteer at a hospital and work with patients and I feel like I'd enjoy medicine a lot. But when I get home what I want to read is neuropsych (or related) papers. I'd go into medicine with the intention of doing neurology...not sure what I'd do if I didn't match into it. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[erg923]

I did not particularly enjoy graduate school, but this was much more me than them, so to speak. But, I didn't hate it, nor was I "miserable." I was a good trainee, but internally I was very impatient. I was very away from my home and my friends. I was married and wanted children (which was just not doable for us in graduate school) and didn't like living in small apartment. I wanted the academic and scientific skills/training, but certainly had no desire for a academic or primary research career, which made some aspects of my labwork/RA work trudgery. My advisor was very warm, very maternal and very caring, but also very productive.