What's so bad about Caribbean Medical Schools?

J.Jadore1

New Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Hello everyone. I'm new on the forums and I am an upcoming high school senior. I know that I want to be a doctor in the future (Family Practice) and I have been looking at options for medicine. I am a full IB diploma candidate and I was originally planning to try out for British medical schools, however they are very very expensive for US students and I will have a large student loan debt if I go; however I will still apply there. I know that if I go to a medical school in the US, it will take so much time (8-10 years) and I am looking for ways to accelerate my university studies. I found that Caribbean Medical schools don't take that long to complete, but I see so many negative comments on them. What's so bad about them? Are they not regarded as good as American medical schools? I would definitely go to an American medical school if it didn't take so long to be a doctor here. In the end, my dream is to work in a hospital in New York City, London, or Toronto, depending upon where life takes me...
What's your advice?

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Interesting question. I'd like to see the answer as well.
 
This has been pretty beaten to death on these boards. Use your search function if you want more details, but here is a quick summary

1. High cost (they are for profit schools)
2. High attrition - many don't actually finish school, saddling them with tons of debt from #1
3. Really poor quality 3rd/4th year rotations
4. Misleading stats - Step 1 pass rates are pretty misleading. They only include students who actually sit for the exam (aka not the high number who flunk out) and I have heard stories that they are required to take several practice exams before they are allowed to sit for the exam ( http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...researching-caribbean-medical-schools.840951/ )
5. Poor residency match rates. You have little to no chance at a competitive residency, and many don't end up matching (saddling them with tons of debt from #1). Of those that do match, only a fraction actually get their first choice. With US MD enrolment increasing, and the impending combing of the match between MD/DO schools, its only going to get tougher for them in the future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Members don't see this ad :)
I have heard stories that they are required to take several practice exams before they are allowed to sit for the exam

Caribbean schools are literally the worst, but just for completeness this isn't uncommon. We have to take an NBME practice test and "pass" (an arbitrary number based on the class performance but pretty close to passing step 1) before we can sit for step 1. Our school does it for our own good whereas carib. schools are trying to weed out the low passes to inflate their scores.

OP- if you want to be a doctor in the US, learn to be a doctor in US. You're talking about a couple years in the context of a 40+ year career. Don't be lazy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It's not the fact that I'm lazy; It's all about the issue of money. I'm stuck in a situation where I'm too rich for financial aid, yet too poor to go to college and I will have to take private student loans out. I just want to start a job quickly so that I can start paying them off and my parents want me to get a job soon as they don't really have a lot of money and I want to help them out.
 
It's not the fact that I'm lazy; It's all about the issue of money. I'm stuck in a situation where I'm too rich for financial aid, yet too poor to go to college and I will have to take private student loans out. I just want to start a job quickly so that I can start paying them off and my parents want me to get a job soon as they don't really have a lot of money and I want to help them out.

If you are a good enough student to be considering med school, there is merit aid to be had out there. Many state schools give good merit scholarships based just on ACT scores. So I stopped listening to you at the too poor for college line.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
There is significantly lower chances that you match into a residency if you go Caribbean. So four years and $$ wasted if you can't match. It'd be much easier for you to go to an American MD or DO school.

Even if you graduate from a med school that's pretty good from abroad it'll be more difficult for you to apply to residencies both ways since you'd count as international both ways.

imho, go to an American medical school and do residency in the states. later on think about moving abroad.

if you're worried about money apply to state schools close to home, unless you plan on going to Harvard Med it doesn't matter what college you went to. Med school is expensive in the states but if you want to become a doctor, do it. youll make things considerably more difficult for yourself if you go international
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
It's not the fact that I'm lazy; It's all about the issue of money. I'm stuck in a situation where I'm too rich for financial aid, yet too poor to go to college and I will have to take private student loans out. I just want to start a job quickly so that I can start paying them off and my parents want me to get a job soon as they don't really have a lot of money and I want to help them out.

This doesn't make sense.

Like palidosauriaa said, go to an affordable state school. Problem solved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Caribbean schools are a huge risk IMO. Out of people I have heard of in real life, a good 10-15% don't match the first year around. I would argue about 15 years ago it wasn't as big of a deal but now the competition for residencies have skyrocketed as did MD/DO schools to be honest. I have also never seen a Caribbean MD outside of a primary care field. Better off going to any MD/DO school in the states than choosing a top Caribbean school. It also can be VERY expensive.

A certain US MD medical school I know of used to boast a 3.5/30 average back in 2003-2005 now it's approximately a 3.7/34.This is an example of how competitive medicine has become in the past 15-20 years.

European medical schools and dental schools are seemingly becoming more popular amongst people I've met. I know of two individuals who attend a European medical school or dental school. Although I believe both are considering living there afterwards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It's not the fact that I'm lazy; It's all about the issue of money. I'm stuck in a situation where I'm too rich for financial aid, yet too poor to go to college and I will have to take private student loans out. I just want to start a job quickly so that I can start paying them off and my parents want me to get a job soon as they don't really have a lot of money and I want to help them out.

The military has a scholarship named the hpsp. It pays full tuition and books and fees along with a monthley stipend. It's a great come out of school debt free solution if your willing to give 4 years or so back to the military.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
And you can pick any accredited American school you want
 
The military has a scholarship named the hpsp. It pays full tuition and books and fees along with a monthley stipend. It's a great come out of school debt free solution if your willing to give 4 years or so back to the military.

Although for anyone who is considering the scholarship should read all about it because they do have limitations such as choice of residencies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Well the navy has almost everything they have over 30 medical specialties including surgical subspecialties like plastics and cardiothoracics. And you can choose any one of them that you want. Check it out here's all the specialties: http://www.navy.com/careers/healthcare/medicine.html#ft-specialties-subspecialties

Yeah, I'm not too familiar with it but a current friend is matriculating this fall and is looking through them. He felt uneasy about it. I haven't personally done alot of research on it.
 
I understand that money seems to be an issue for you, but I don't recommend looking overseas for that. Further, I don't recommend rushing to complete things for money's sake in general.

First, a disclaimer. I am just about to enter college. I believe that what I say is useful, but know that it holds no absolute authority.

Regardless, I can say with confidence that rushing will get you nowhere. Becoming a doctor is hard and long, and you don't reap the benefits monetarily until much later in your life. However, if you rush through this process, you will either become a mediocre/bad doctor, or at worse, drop out. And seriously, the drop out-of-premed rate is no joke. The solution, for better or worse, is to plan out finances throughout the way. There will always be scholarships, grants, jobs, internships, work-study, etc. If you work hard, you will be rewarded. And there are plenty of opportunities.

Which specific plan will be the best for you? I don't know. I am in the same situation, and honestly, other SDN members have more useful knowledge and advice than I do.

To beat a dead horse: Don't rush.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It is substantially more complex than that, with many many caveats that you should thoroughly understand before you sign up.

The Navy does not train plastics, vascular, or CT as residents. The fellowships are available after a Gen Surg residency, but they are very competitive to get (at the Navy level; you need Navy approval before you are actually allowed to apply to the fellowship). And the number of people in each that we train is dictated by the number we need. Many years we let no one go to Plastics or CT.

And you do not get to pick your specialty. As in the civilian world, there is a match process. Recently our HPSP students have gotten very good, actually far better on paper than the civilian average. I saw many applicants to Ortho this past year who would have easily matched in the civilian world, but didn't match in the Navy because there were so many better people. And no, we generally do not let people do residency in the civilian world in most cases, though this changes from year to year.

It is also no longer easy to get HPSP in the Navy. This past year we rejected 2 out of every 3 applicants. Our medical students have gotten very good. This very different than when I did HPSP.

It is a good option for many people, but it is very complicated and many who signed up for it reget their decision. And it starts with getting into medical school. We don't even want to talk to you until you are accepted.

Well the medical recruiter the other day told me that you can choose your speciality. Maybe it was a misunderstanding.
 
Hello everyone. I'm new on the forums and I am an upcoming high school senior. I know that I want to be a doctor in the future (Family Practice) and I have been looking at options for medicine. I am a full IB diploma candidate and I was originally planning to try out for British medical schools, however they are very very expensive for US students and I will have a large student loan debt if I go; however I will still apply there. I know that if I go to a medical school in the US, it will take so much time (8-10 years) and I am looking for ways to accelerate my university studies. I found that Caribbean Medical schools don't take that long to complete, but I see so many negative comments on them. What's so bad about them? Are they not regarded as good as American medical schools? I would definitely go to an American medical school if it didn't take so long to be a doctor here. In the end, my dream is to work in a hospital in New York City, London, or Toronto, depending upon where life takes me...
What's your advice?

Matching rate is so low.
 
For completeness, a couple of additional things not really mentioned in this thread:
(1) if you go offshore you might get hung up with internal tests and additionally you might have to lose time waiting for core rotations to become available (these schools don't usually have their own rotations -- they contract for them, so if everybody eg needs peds at the same time, someone is going to end up waiting). So you can lose a year just getting the requirements under your belt and sitting for tests.
(2) not infrequently, offshore grads can end up trying the match multiple times, maybe doing an externship or research year to build relationships before ultimately matching. So many of the successful ones lose a year (or more) in this way.
(3) many of the "matches" you see on offshore rank lists are really dead end prelim years, basically intern years you do that look like you matched on the schools website, but then you are back in the match a year later looking for something categorical, often requiring a repeat of intern year. So you can lose a year in this way.
(4) from what I've observed, even for those not having to go back into the match, a disproportionate percentage of those who are asked to repeat intern year because they aren't ready to be promoted a senior are from offshore or foreign schools, likely because they haven't had the same kind of rotations as US grads. They are starting lower on the experience curve.

So there are many many ways to lose years via the offshore route -- for many they won't be saving much if any time. Most of the people i knew who were successful on this path had a very long journey -- they didn't become a doctor younger or cheaper. And on top of that you will face high attrition, high expense, low match rate, and a big stigma. And will be pigeon holing themselves into the path of noncompetitive fields to boot. There is really only one reason you'd ever go this route IMHO -- if you've already tried to rehabilitat your stats a Few times to no avail, really have nothing to lose, don't care about time or money, and still want one last low percentage hail Mary shot at med school. Not to save time or money, thats just *****ic, sorry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
1. Match rates are TERRIBLE.
2. Match rates are TERRIBLE
3. Match rates are TERRIBLE
4. Match rates are TERRIBLE
5. Match rates are TERRIBLE
6. Most people who end up in Carib have terrible grades in UG then flunk out with 150k+ in loans and nothing to show for it.
7. St. George Medical has over 5000 people enrolled. 5000! let that sink in. LECOM, a low ranked DO school barely has 1500.
8. Did I mention match rates are terrible?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
1. Match rates are TERRIBLE.
2. Match rates are TERRIBLE
3. Match rates are TERRIBLE
4. Match rates are TERRIBLE
5. Match rates are TERRIBLE
6. Most people who end up in Carib have terrible grades in UG then flunk out with 150k+ in loans and nothing to show for it.
7. St. George Medical has over 5000 people enrolled. 5000! let that sink in. LECOM, a low ranked DO school barely has 1500.
8. Did I mention match rates are terrible?

Hey, it's not like I have anything against you or anything, but you are a highschooler. Your personal experience means little to nothing. When you share your valuable knowledge with us, particularly when you give facts or statements like low match rates, can you cite a trustworthy source?
 
Although for anyone who is considering the scholarship should read all about it because they do have limitations such as choice of residencies.

The recruiter told me that you can do your residency outside the military. The difference is if you do a military residency, that counts towards your seniority (i.e. rank) and you get pay and a housing stipend or something like that. But if there are no military residencies in your preferred field available, you can do them privately and then give your four years of service after the residency. The only difference is you'd lose four years worth of rank and pay, so you'd get the standard $50k per year during your residency instead of somewhere around $80k if you go military all the way.

The military match comes a little earlier than the civilian match so if you don't get your military specialty you can try for civilian. I know "recruiters lie" but I think that's more when they're trying to recruit 17 year olds to be grunts in the marines; etc. They really don't have an incentive to lie to med students regarding residency because they need physicians in all specialties.
 
Hey, it's not like I have anything against you or anything, but you are a highschooler. Your personal experience means little to nothing. When you share your valuable knowledge with us, particularly when you give facts or statements like low match rates, can you cite a trustworthy source?

The ACGME match rates are a good starting point to educate yourself on the dismal match rates of offshore schools. Attrition rates and match lists etc of various schools are harder to come by because the schools have great financial incentive to lie and aren't subject to US "truth in advertising" and consumer protection laws. So honestly you are almost better off taking the word of some high schooler over whatever you might read on a website hosted on an island known for it's lack of legal regulation or sketchy law enforcement. These schools didn't set up on these islands based on their willingness to jump through all the regulatory requirements of a Stateside school. They did it because you desperate and that makes you relatively easy to fleece.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
So you got "incomplete" info.

I'm on my phone so will discuss all this in a post later, but the picture they gave you is wrong.

Please do enlighten me. I'm still considering the HPSP program.
 
Caribbean schools are a huge risk IMO. Out of people I have heard of in real life, a good 10-15% don't match the first year around. I would argue about 15 years ago it wasn't as big of a deal but now the competition for residencies have skyrocketed as did MD/DO schools to be honest. I have also never seen a Caribbean MD outside of a primary care field. Better off going to any MD/DO school in the states than choosing a top Caribbean school. It also can be VERY expensive.

A certain US MD medical school I know of used to boast a 3.5/30 average back in 2003-2005 now it's approximately a 3.7/34.This is an example of how competitive medicine has become in the past 15-20 years.

European medical schools and dental schools are seemingly becoming more popular amongst people I've met. I know of two individuals who attend a European medical school or dental school. Although I believe both are considering living there afterwards.
10-15% of the survivors of SGU don't match. Every other school dates far, far worse. And this is before the residency crunch- by the time op will be matching, it is likely there will be more AMGs than residencies, making the Caribbean financial suicide in the near future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
For me, I have really enjoyed the Navy, and I will most likely stay until retirement. It's a good life for me and my family

This is the key. I wouldn't do the HPSP for only financial reasons. I think a lot of people on the military boards who are unsatisfied with the program looked at it more for those reasons (Graduate with no debt) than what the commitment entailed. The military lifestyle isnt for everyone.
 
match rates aren't terrible per se. If you go to the big 3 and want primary health care, then getting residency will be an uphill battle but doable. Now if you want the E-ROAD specialties, the odds are not in your favor...it is doable but very challenging!
comes down to a few things
1) the student. if you think pass=MD / I pay tuition=MD then you are in for rude awakening. From a carib school you dont just gotta match an AMG, you must do much better to fight for that same spot
2) specialty: like I said before, primary healthcare is less competitive [assuming its community based...uni based are a whole other ball game]
3) time: by 2020 I think carib schools will be a thing of the past/ not an option at all.
take everything you hear and read [such as this post] with a grain of salt. Do your best to apply to american MD or DO schools, then consider your options if that doesnt work out,
 
match rates aren't terrible per se. If you go to the big 3 and want primary health care, then getting residency will be an uphill battle but doable. Now if you want the E-ROAD specialties, the odds are not in your favor...it is doable but very challenging!
comes down to a few things
1) the student. if you think pass=MD / I pay tuition=MD then you are in for rude awakening. From a carib school you dont just gotta match an AMG, you must do much better to fight for that same spot
2) specialty: like I said before, primary healthcare is less competitive [assuming its community based...uni based are a whole other ball game]
3) time: by 2020 I think carib schools will be a thing of the past/ not an option at all.
take everything you hear and read [such as this post] with a grain of salt. Do your best to apply to american MD or DO schools, then consider your options if that doesnt work out,

Match rates ARE terrible per se when you bear in mind that these are AFTER ATTRITION numbers. In the US attrition is nominal but at offshore schools it's very very high. If you've wipe out half the class by attrition, then even if everyone thereafter matched it's really only a 50% match rate. But everybody doesn't match. As a group (ie not just the big three -- because that's all we have verifiably data for from ACGME) only about half of offshore grads match, which is really an effective 25% match rate (50% of 50%). But you won't see those figures on the offshore schools websites, which, like your post, try to BS that people who work hard will do well. It's a low percentage play -- worse than any casino game. And it's kind of an outright lie to suggest any realistic shot at matching into anything competitive -- saying "it is doable" is disingenuous. A statistically insignificant number of people attain these -- honestly not worth mentioning because it isn't gonna happen. In truth you'll generally have to beat the odds just to end up with the least desirable categorical spot in the US -- THAT is the reality, and for most who start down this road, in fact won't even be "doable."

Again kudos for anyone who actually makes it from this route, because frankly your odds taking the tuition money to the local craps game is probably higher yield.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Of course, the flip side is that it's hard to make direct comparison between US schools and the Carribean since the starting material is so different. Even comparing average scores is disingenuous, since the leftward skewness of the Carib scores is just so large. Regardless of the quality of the education there, the stats of the lower students is just so poor that an outrageous attrition rate is inevitable

Well, when the prior poster suggested that the match rates were not terrible and that getting a competitive spot was "doable" he presumably was speaking to the typical person contemplating this path. I don't think it's fair to say to such person "you'll do fine because you presumably will survive the waves of attrition" because the competition is weak, because for all we know this person too will be bringing down the curve.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Match rates ARE terrible per se when you bear in mind that these are AFTER ATTRITION numbers. In the US attrition is nominal but at offshore schools it's very very high. If you've wipe out half the class by attrition, then even if everyone thereafter matched it's really only a 50% match rate..

exactly...the match is worse before you add in all the hidden attrition....my US school with over 150 students had 4 not promote this year. 1 dismissed for grades, one left for her own personal life, and 2 were asked to repeat the year so they are still in, just a year behind. We're less than a 2% attrition so far if you're looking at 5yr grad rate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Cue for argus to come in, sputtering "but, but, NRMP data!"


Match rates ARE terrible per se when you bear in mind that these are AFTER ATTRITION numbers. In the US attrition is nominal but at offshore schools it's very very high. If you've wipe out half the class by attrition, then even if everyone thereafter matched it's really only a 50% match rate. But everybody doesn't match. As a group (ie not just the big three -- because that's all we have verifiably data for from ACGME) only about half of offshore grads match, which is really an effective 25% match rate (50% of 50%). But you won't see those figures on the offshore schools websites, which, like your post, try to BS that people who work hard will do well. It's a low percentage play -- worse than any casino game. And it's kind of an outright lie to suggest any realistic shot at matching into anything competitive -- saying "it is doable" is disingenuous. A statistically insignificant number of people attain these -- honestly not worth mentioning because it isn't gonna happen. In truth you'll generally have to beat the odds just to end up with the least desirable categorical spot in the US -- THAT is the reality, and for most who start down this road, in fact won't even be "doable."

Again kudos for anyone who actually makes it from this route, because frankly your odds taking the tuition money to the local craps game is probably higher yield.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
ya in the past few years, ER has been quite sought after. Anyway, I was just adding my two cents about carib schools.
As Tired says above, EM is nowhere near the top of the list in terms of desirability or competitiveness.

Nothing wrong with it but lets not lump it into derm or ophthalmology categories.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
As Tired says above, EM is nowhere near the top of the list in terms of desirability or competitiveness.

Nothing wrong with it but lets not lump it into derm or ophthalmology categories.
I was merely quoting what I read, i.e. E-ROAD. Lets switch the ER with ENT and call it a day lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
As Tired says above, EM is nowhere near the top of the list in terms of desirability or competitiveness.

Nothing wrong with it but lets not lump it into derm or ophthalmology categories.

EM has distinguished itself from the less competitive things because of shift work -- the hours per week can be relatively modest. So it offers relatively good pay per hour. That appeals to a segment of med students. But you are still often dealing with drug seekers at 3 am -- it's simply not an office practice specialty where you get to deal with patients who care about hygiene or listen to what you tell them or show up to any sort of follow up, and its not a field where you can be your own boss. And so It's never going to draw much interest from people who were interested in derm or optho or the surgical subspecialties. It probably is intriguing to the folks who come up short to the truly competitive things but might see this as a way to at least get some of the lifestyle aspects. So no, I don't think you can call it competitive, and as mentioned there are some fundamental reasons it will never appeal to the more white shoe crowd. In law there were some mid-sized litigation firms where the lawyers could make really good money, but no top law school grad would really ever put those in the same category as big law.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The ROAD specialties are distinguished by fairly good pay for a "reduced" amount of work (at least relative to other specialties), which makes them quite competitive. The ENT kids work their behinds off, so they'll never fall into that category. ER has reduced work hours, but the pay isn't that exciting, and it's not particularly competitive, so it seems to fall more into the category of Psych. I had never heard "E-ROAD" before this thread.
It was in that article that was linked, I had read it a little while ago. I am just quoting what they said for competitive specialties.
 
US medical schools also have horrible match rates considering the fact they only take roughly the top 10 to 15% of those that apply.
The Carib is a last resort. Approach it that way.
Ross and SGU match more residents into residencies then any other med school, meaning yes it is possible
Yes alot of people didn't make it when I went through the system and it was very heartwrenching to see, (20% or so) but at least they had a chance
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
US medical schools also have horrible match rates considering the fact they only take roughly the top 10 to 15% of those that apply.
The Carib is a last resort. Approach it that way.
Ross and SGU match more residents into residencies then any other med school, meaning yes it is possible
Yes alot of people didn't make it when I went through the system and it was very heartwrenching to see, (20% or so) but at least they had a chance

And the other 80% are left with hundreds of thousands in debt they cannot pay back and which survives bankrupcy... Yay!

Carribean is not only a last resort but one should really decide if they truly want to only be a doctor prior to going to the carribean.
 
LOL! E-ROAD

Outdated and inaccurate acronym.
 
Top