When FMG's say they are in a much better place

[connie95]

I am from a country in Asia, where I had originally planned to continue on to medical school straight from high school. However, after some thinking about my future, I decided to pursue the same thing in the United States. Recently, I have started facing mocking views from my friends back home who say they are in a much better place when compared to me.

Their argument is that they get to finish medical school 2 1/2 years earlier than I do, making them younger, richer and a whole lot smarter at the same time. They also claim that they would be able to get good residency positions faster as they add to the diversity of the USA health system and are "wanted" by the USA as the USA depends on the talent of foreign physicians to improve their healthcare system...

Now, I'm confused because I thought FMG's were at a disadvantage when it came to these things. I'm scared that this means I sacrificed time and money to come here for my medical education for no reason.

I was wondering what people on SDN thought about this...should I take what my friends are saying with a grain of salt?

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[TheWeeIceMan]

Your friends don't sound very informed. US trained students will always have preference over foreign grads when applying for residency positions in the US. The US has used foreign grads out of necessity to fill residency spots in the past, not because we want them for diversity.

 

[Chipster.]

I was wondering what people on SDN thought about this...should I take what my friends are saying with a grain of salt?

You should take what they are saying with all of the salt. All of it. That still might not be enough.

 

[gobears2009]

I don't know why finishing medical school 2 1/2 years earlier would make anyone smarter - if anything, it means they don't have the same level of training/education that US grads do.

They also claim that they would be able to get good residency positions faster as they add to the diversity of the USA health system and are "wanted" by the USA as the USA depends on the talent of foreign physicians to improve their healthcare system...

This sounds like desperate rationalization to me.

 

[gobears2009]

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm interpreting the AOA/ACGME merger is that FMGs and IMGs will face fiercer competition for residency spots, resulting in them getting pushed out.

 

[connie95]

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm interpreting the AOA/ACGME merger is that FMGs and IMGs will face fiercer competition for residency spots, resulting in them getting pushed out.

What is the AOA/ACGME merger?

 

[connie95]

You should take what they are saying with all of the salt. All of it. That still might not be enough.

Lol, yeah that's what I thought...

 

[mspeedwagon]

Not all FMGs are created alike. Also, not all board scores are created alike. Without knowing what country, what school, what the school's history of placement in US residency programs, what USMLE scores have ben like and how the merger of ACGME/AOA might potentially impact graduates from this particular country, I don't think anyone on here can give you good insight into your question.

I still know of several programs in the Boston area that take FMGs prior to US grads (Being an IMG with a 250+ on Step 1 is better than being a domestic student and barely passing in some cases). My old co-worker who graduated from a school in China matched to Mass General - orthopedic surgery - having scored in the 99th percentile on the USMLE. Yes, all things being equal, being a US grad on average is without doubt far better. However, without specifics, it's hard to answer your question.

 

[274631]

During the almost 6 years I've been studying in the US I've met quite a few FMGs trying to get into residencies in the US. And I am yet to meet a single one who has gotten into a residency as yet. I know it does happen, because I've met FMG docs, but it is in no way as easy as your friends make it seem.

I too have times where I wonder if I've wasted so much time and money pursuing schooling in the USA, but at the end of the day I would never have been able to do what I now think I want to do, had I stayed at home and trained. And the experiences and variety of educational opportunities I've been able to have does not compare and I am sure will help me getting into a residency compared to staying at home and training. At the end of the day we'll all be docs, they earlier than me, but I think I will have so many more opportunities for residency and career than they will.

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[gobears2009]

What is the AOA/ACGME merger?

Without getting too far into the details, it means that previously DO-only residencies will be opened to MD applicants, there will be AOA representatives on the ACGME boards, and all residencies will have to be accredited under ACGME requirements. I'm sure there are other things.

The general consensus, as far as I can tell, seems to be that the AOA and ACGME want to present a united front, in part so that they can push out FMGs and IMGs from US residency programs.

This was in an Osteopathic thread (Goro is faculty at an osteopathic school):

Both MD and DO programs are tired of having the Carib diploma mills, flush with cash from people who weren't qualified to get into either, buying rotations and residencies. There are moves afoot at the state levels to stop this now, and so the merger gives a unified front. My two cents.

Granted, this doesn't mention FMGs.

 

[connie95]

Without getting too far into the details, it means that previously DO-only residencies will be opened to MD applicants, there will be AOA representatives on the ACGME boards, and all residencies will have to be accredited under ACGME requirements. I'm sure there are other things.

The general consensus, as far as I can tell, seems to be that the AOA and ACGME want to present a united front, in part so that they can push out FMGs and IMGs from US residency programs.

This was in an Osteopathic thread (Goro is faculty at an osteopathic school):



Granted, this doesn't mention FMGs.

I see...does this also mean that DO's can get into residencies that were originally only for MD? As in, are the same residencies open to both? Also, does this mean that the number of residency slots will be increased? I imagine that if it stayed the same, FMG's would definitely have a harder time since DO's will be competing as well.

 

[cooksgenes]

I am from a country in Asia, where I had originally planned to continue on to medical school straight from high school. However, after some thinking about my future, I decided to pursue the same thing in the United States. Recently, I have started facing mocking views from my friends back home who say they are in a much better place when compared to me.

Their argument is that they get to finish medical school 2 1/2 years earlier than I do, making them younger, richer and a whole lot smarter at the same time. They also claim that they would be able to get good residency positions faster as they add to the diversity of the USA health system and are "wanted" by the USA as the USA depends on the talent of foreign physicians to improve their healthcare system...

Now, I'm confused because I thought FMG's were at a disadvantage when it came to these things. I'm scared that this means I sacrificed time and money to come here for my medical education for no reason.

I was wondering what people on SDN thought about this...should I take what my friends are saying with a grain of salt?

I had the chance to go to med school in my home country (very small one in SE Asia) but I still turned down the opportunity and came to America. My friends from high school who went to med schools there already graduated 2 years ago, while I am just about to start. BUT I still feel lucky (and in my perspective, luckier than all my doctor friends back home) -- I mean America is one of the most developed countries, with advanced technologies in medicine and everything... I know the path to get to med schools here is rough, and to become a physician is even harder, but it is worth it... Not to badmouth my country and its medical education, but textbooks there are basically translated from foreign text (that was published 20-30 years ago)

 

[wiloghby]

One time I went to the supermarket in desperate need of grapes. But because I partied too much in college, they would only sell me these lemons. So now all I have are these lemons...but let me tell you, they're actually much sweeter than any grapes you might have.

That's what your friends are doing. It's more popular just to insist the grapes were never that good to begin with. Insisting the lemons are in fact better is rare additional step taken only by the true experts of rationalization.

Anyway, your friends may very well be enjoying their medical education and there is nothing wrong with them sharing their enthusiasm with you. And maybe they really don't like the American system... but to insist that you are dumb for going to the US for training is crossing the line, and their claim that leaving the country will set them up for quick licensure and a cushy life in the USA is laughable! If they actually thought their system of training were better and wanted to stay in their country to practice, I can understand why they might question you. But then they talk about wanting to come here to do a residency...so I'm pretty sure it's the sweet lemons thing.

Getting a residency with a FMG education takes forever due to the bias towards US graduates. If what they are saying is true, then non US citizen FMGs should have a lower average age upon starting residency here. Take a look at which hospitals are actually utilizing the J-1 visa system... these are hospitals in the middle of the nowhere in towns with 2000 people who have to beg foreigners to stay there for longer than their contractually mandated period. (If you are into rural practice, that's one thing. But even most doctors brought in under these programs leave as soon as they can. I'm from such a town myself..kinda want to leave.)

Contrast with physicians who do their residency in the USA (which is overwhelmingly biased towards US graduates), who can practice... anywhere they want. What a rough deal.

 

[gobears2009]

I see...does this also mean that DO's can get into residencies that were originally only for MD? As in, are the same residencies open to both? Also, does this mean that the number of residency slots will be increased? I imagine that if it stayed the same, FMG's would definitely have a harder time since DO's will be competing as well.

There was never any rule against DOs applying for ACGME residencies, as long as they took the USMLE. However, there are programs that only take MDs, for one reason or another (usually the top programs). I don't know that if merger would change those programs, but I doubt it.

It will open up new fellowship opportunities for DOs.

I don't think this affects the number of residency slots.

 

[connie95]

Contrast with physicians who do their residency in the USA (which is overwhelmingly biased towards US graduates), who can practice... anywhere they want. What a rough deal.

Does this mean that the US medical degree is recognized around the world and that I could back to my home country to practice if I wanted? Also, I don't know how important this is..but my country is listed as "developing"

 

[wiloghby]

Does this mean that the US medical degree is recognized around the world and that I could back to my home country to practice if I wanted? Also, I don't know how important this is..but my country is listed as "developing"

I meant anywhere within the USA. But the US MD is recognized many places around the world. If you want to practice in New Zealand, a US MD will put you right at the front of the visa line. At least as of a few years ago, they need healthcare workers badly there.

 

[274631]

Does this mean that the US medical degree is recognized around the world and that I could back to my home country to practice if I wanted? Also, I don't know how important this is..but my country is listed as "developing"

Does your country have a medical licensing board you can check with? It is recognized in my country (but not DO unfortunately) and I would guess most other countries also.

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[connie95]

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[connie95]

Does your country have a medical licensing board you can check with? It is recognized in my country (but not DO unfortunately) and I would guess most other countries also.

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They have a licensing board but their website doesn't seem to be updated with the latest information so I'm not sure...I guess I'd have to call them. Yeah, I don't think DO is recognized in my country either.

 

[connie95]

I'm from India, so if anyone else from there knows anything about whether US MD's can practice in India, I'd love to hear it!