....When people ask you, "Is pre-dental even hard?"

[snowydays]

Okay, I'm not sure if there are just more douchebags where I am, but do any of you ever get condescending questions about pre-dentistry and the DAT, especially from pre-med students? And how do you deal with it? My DAT is in a few days and I've been studying really hard for it. However, it's really annoying when I get questions about what the difference between the DAT and MCAT is, and then I hear, "So like...is it hard?" just because it's shorter than the MCAT, has less material, has a PAT section (which I personally don't think is a cake walk at all, but it sounds "easy" to the regular person), is less of a "crowded" field I guess than pre-med. Like I've gotten several questions asking if it's hard. It just pisses me off when people undermine the hard work and stress we pre-dental students have to go through- it's the same as any pre-med student. And of course, when people don't recognize dentistry as a medical field, or make annoying stereotypes, the list goes on. Obviously anything you do will come with things people can pick on, but can someone reply with a good way they either ignore or address this stuff?

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[Hey ug]

Just laugh at them. Have thick skin to the matter. Personally I look at those who are pre-med and say that and think of them as bad doctors in the making, looking down at a different profession. But thats just my advice.

Edit: in the long run it shouldnt matter if you really like dentistry.

 

[super frank]

If they're picking on you they're probably not going to end up getting into MD schools anyway. Make fun of them for going DO.

 

[Incis0r]

I get questions about what the difference between the DAT and MCAT is, and then I hear, "So like...is it hard?" just because it's shorter than the MCAT, has less material, has a PAT section (which I personally don't think is a cake walk at all, but it sounds "easy" to the regular person), is less of a "crowded" field I guess than pre-med. Like I've gotten several questions asking if it's hard. It just pisses me off when people undermine the hard work and stress we pre-dental students have to go through- it's the same as any pre-med student. And of course, when people don't recognize dentistry as a medical field, or make annoying stereotypes, the list goes on. Obviously anything you do will come with things people can pick on, but can someone reply with a good way they either ignore or address this stuff?

It sounds like they're just trying to get to know the pre-dental path better.

Just tell them you take the same core courses as pre-med students, including organic.

 

[1070752]

Off-topic, but I hate the terms 'pre-dental' or 'pre-med'. Like, what does that even mean? You're thinking of going into dentistry or medical? Only a small majority make it, it's such a feel-good label in my opinion.

I'm thinking of becoming a millionaire, or a president. Am I a pre-millionaire, or a pre-president? /end of rant

 

[pgex2t]

If they're picking on you they're probably not going to end up getting into MD schools anyway. Make fun of them for going DO.

Story of my post bac

 

[Polkadotfan]

I get a lot of "You want to be a hygenist?" or "So that's a 2-yr program right?"
I try to not let it bother me and correct as politely as I can. If another students want to be snippy then I just explain I take the same courses they do and, in Texas, it's the same application . Anyone who wants to take it a step farther and get petty is usually already on my "politely ignore" list and you should put people there too.

 

[MrSnuggles]

Friend them on facebook so you can laugh at them in a few years when they're doing 36 hour calls while you're out in practice.

 

[redhotchiligochu]

It's been many years since I was in undergrad, but I wasn't a "pre-" anything back then but I do remember the "premeds" being very cutthroat, socially awkward, high-strung, and basically borderline psychopathic. Not really a friendly bunch to hang out with.

Fact of the matter is, academic requirements such as GPA and MCAT/DAT IS easier than the MD route, despite our pre-dental biased egos, but medicine and dentistry and such different fields that it's pretty much comparing apples and oranges.

 

[O Gaúcho]

There are medical schools that don't even require MCAT scores. If somebody really wants to get in they can. Anyone who can get into dental school can easily get into a medical school in my opinion. It's just purely choice on what you want to do.

 

[doc toothache]

Just tell them it is easy and that's the reason you chose the path.

There are medical schools that don't even require MCAT scores. If somebody really wants to get in they can. Anyone who can get into dental school can easily get into a medical school in my opinion. It's just purely choice on what you want to do.

Which US medical schools don't require MCAT?

 

[stoopidmonkeycatdog]

My personal opinion is that medicine does attract (on average) more intelligent individuals. I think the top 50% of people I meet who get into dental could also get into medicine easily, but I think like 90% of those who actually get into medical school could easily do dentistry.

Just a personal anecdote that's meaningless, but I don't think "pre-dent" (or med) is too overly difficult!

Feel free to disagree with my opinion though.

 

[Hopeful Graduate]

Lol the funny thing is that a lot of them are going to be forced into primary care under these new healthcare plans, that would be my worst nightmare, not using my hands

 

[Hopeful Graduate]

But I have a lot of friends that studied for the MCAT while I studied for the DAT, and I do agree that their test is significantly harder to crack

 

[stoopidmonkeycatdog]

Lol the funny thing is that a lot of them are going to be forced into primary care under these new healthcare plans, that would be my worst nightmare, not using my hands

But I have a lot of friends that studied for the MCAT while I studied for the DAT, and I do agree that their test is significantly harder to crack

I agree, and I'm really happy and excited about dentistry. I just feel like medical school typically only chooses really qualified candidates, whereas dentistry will often take people with "potential". I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I like it, but it's obviously harder to get into medical.

 

[FrenchyM.D/D.O]

I get a lot of "You want to be a hygenist?" or "So that's a 2-yr program right?"
I try to not let it bother me and correct as politely as I can. If another students want to be snippy then I just explain I take the same courses they do and, in Texas, it's the same application . Anyone who wants to take it a step farther and get petty is usually already on my "politely ignore" list and you should put people there too.

Some people are really unaware of what it takes to become a dentist though.

 

[ncide]

If they're picking on you they're probably not going to end up getting into MD schools anyway. Make fun of them for going DO.

That's the same attitude that OP is talking about.

 

[DKB15]

I agree, and I'm really happy and excited about dentistry. I just feel like medical school typically only chooses really qualified candidates, whereas dentistry will often take people with "potential". I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I like it, but it's obviously harder to get into medical.

I think it is harder to get into dental school. There is only 60-70 dental schools which have less seats opposed to the 151 medical schools in the USA that have more seats.

 

[stoopidmonkeycatdog]

I think it is harder to get into dental school. There is only 60-70 dental schools which have less seats opposed to the 151 medical schools in the USA that have more seats.

I mean perhaps it's technically more competitive based purely on acceptance rates, but the average gpa for medical school is like a 3.7, whereas dentistry is like a 3.54. also according to the aamc, 41% of medical applicants get in, whereas 50% do for dentistry.

 

[nonociceptors]

I have nothing but sympathy for the people who get worked up about this on either side of the argument. I couldn't imagine worrying myself over what someone else wants to do, and I'm definitely not dumb enough to decide my career based on what "harder."

 

[super frank]

That's the same attitude that OP is talking about.

It was a joke.

 

[doc toothache]

I think it is harder to get into dental school. There is only 60-70 dental schools which have less seats opposed to the 151 medical schools in the USA that have more seats.

The number of schools has absolutely nothing to do with how easy or difficult it is to gain admission. The relevant numbers are the number of applicants and the number of enrollees.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/head-to-head-combat-medical-dental-schools.989609/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/medicine-dntistry-vet-the-quest-for-top-dog-status.988878/

 

[gangazi]

Do not let people who try to see the sky through a pinhole distract you

 

[Polkadotfan]

Some people are really unaware of what it takes to become a dentist though.

That's why I try to politely correct them. It's only when they become petty or snippy that I just give up. I've only run into probably...1 person like that...and that person is like that to other pre-meds too.
Most people I associate with understand there is a difference (I totally think the DAT is easier..I looked at the MCAT math and was like "Noopeee." but that's me) but that they are still both hard programs to get into.

 

[gangazi]

That's why I try to politely correct them. It's only when they become petty or snippy that I just give up. I've only run into probably...1 person like that...and that person is like that to other pre-meds too.
Most people I associate with understand there is a difference (I totally think the DAT is easier..I looked at the MCAT math and was like "Noopeee." but that's me) but that they are still both hard programs to get into.

lol one person asked me "YOU WANNA CLEAN SOMEONE'S TEETH REST OF YOUR LIFE?" LOL

 

[personalstatementsbyeric]

pretty funny because I took the mcat and I could have gotten into my state school MD programs with that score - shadowed a dentist and saw the light. When he said he was banking 300k a year on a 4.5 day workweek, my decision was made. Oh yea, and for kickers he actually had some control over his practice, no bureaucratic bs that I hated when I was looking into medical school...

...now...that all said...they are both practically the same in one sense - dentistry is a speciality of medicine - it's no different than derm for skin etc...

 

[schmoob]

I've met more physicians regret not getting into dentistry versus dentists regretting not getting into medicine.

 

[redhotchiligochu]

Lol the funny thing is that a lot of them are going to be forced into primary care under these new healthcare plans, that would be my worst nightmare, not using my hands

Yeah, put in other words, many of those that end up in primary care are gonna have to work for healthcare corporations as glorified entry-level employees who happen to make low-six-figures. Imagine having someone less intelligent than you, with lower academic qualifications, telling YOU how to dole out healthcare to patients, no way Jose!

 

[clutchfans]

Story of my post bac

talk to me classmate!?

 

[ncide]

Yeah, put in other words, many of those that end up in primary care are gonna have to work for healthcare corporations as glorified entry-level employees who happen to make low-six-figures. Imagine having someone less intelligent than you, with lower academic qualifications, telling YOU how to dole out healthcare to patients, no way Jose!

This literally also happens on the dental side.

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

Yeah those dumb pre med kids don't even know how idiotic that question is when they see me in all the same classes as they're in....

 

[Hopeful Graduate]

This literally also happens on the dental side.

If you are financially inept/can't afford private practice...
Praying my parents give me a small 1 million dollar loan...

 

[pgex2t]

talk to me classmate!?

Oh no..now there are expectations. WHAT IF WE WEREN'T IN THE SAME POST BAC?

 

[clutchfans]

Oh no..now there are expectations. WHAT IF WE WEREN'T IN THE SAME POST BAC?

no we're both starting at nyu in like 2 weeks, sorry for the confusion.

 

[pgex2t]

no we're both starting at nyu in like 2 weeks, sorry for the confusion.

I don't know how to feel now. ._.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

the premeds are pretty obnoxious in looking down a profession that make similar amount of money hour-wise (meaning dollars per hours spent) for even less education time.

however, to all hyperactive pre dental students that are still hyped up about dentistry's promising future. Yes it is promising but if you are in the shoe of having only opportunity to attend the most expensive private school in the nation (aka 500k$ debt), you basically extend the time you need (aka time to pay back loan) to even have a shot at this promising future dentistry offers. (though some overachievers will still pay off that debt overworking and underspending but generally, this is the case)

focus on getting into the cheapest school and then, dentistry will be better than medicine.

its no fun getting stuck working corporate for 10-15 years to service 500k debt and laughing at the medical students who probably do the same thing.

#300k-350k or bust#

 

[redhotchiligochu]

This literally also happens on the dental side.

I'm aware of that, just not to the same extent as medicine.

Obviously I can tell I'm not the most popular person in this room....

 

[ncide]

I'm aware of that, just not to the same extent as medicine.

Obviously I can tell I'm not the most popular person in this room....

I didn't mean for it to be directed at you. I apologize if I came off brash.

It's somewhat of a rosey picture that we pre-dents and dental students have of the field and a bit ironic that it also happens on our side of the pond even though we are quick to judge the medical field in the same way.

Banks are reluctant to give out loans to doctors without a solid history of production, some savings, and often times the places that hire entry-level dentists are corporations. Many of these corporations will have management that stress your production numbers, and if they feel your tx isn't adequate, will reprimand you. I worked for one where this wasn't the case, but have colleagues who have and there are doctors on this board who have experienced it themselves.

 

[redhotchiligochu]

I didn't mean for it to be directed at you, I apologize if I came off brash. It's somewhat of a rosey picture that we pre-dents and dental students have of the field and a bit ironic that it also happens on our side of the pond even though we are quick to judge the medical field in the same way.

Banks are reluctant to give out loans to doctors without a solid history of production, and often times the places that hire entry-level dentists are corporations. Many of these corporations will have management that stress your production numbers, and if they feel your tx isn't adequate, will reprimand you. I worked for one where this wasn't the case, but have colleagues who have and there are doctors on this board who have as well.

No problem! I had a small miscommunication with schmoob a while back, it happens.

I'm approaching 30 with my fair share of bumps on the road, so my life perspective will be different from many premeds/predents here and at u-grad. I even ran my own business for a few years, so I'm aware of the challenges of getting loans, cash flow, taxes etc. BUT at least you won't have a boss hanging over your head IF an aspiring dentist chooses to own his/her own practice.

 

[sharpstickie]

Bashing another profession is a giant waste of time. People have to work in every field imaginable, why not just happy with your own?
Don't worry when people doubt how hard dental is. My brother is a 3rd year at MWU and I don't doubt that he's worked very hard.

 

[redhotchiligochu]

Bashing another profession is a giant waste of time. People have to work in every field imaginable, why not just happy with your own?
Don't worry when people doubt how hard dental is. My brother is a 3rd year at MWU and I don't doubt that he's worked very hard.

Having a med student like you visit a predent forum and contribute positively is awesome.

Some of us may be bashing premeds out of spite, but a lot of us are just displeased by the selfish and cutthroat "gunner" mentality of premeds, and the increased corporatization of healthcare that lead to future primary care physicians not using their 4+ years of training, but having workplace drama and power struggle with hospital admins who's never treated a patient before.

Edit: spelling

 

[Charles_Darwin]

I joke that dentists "aren't real doctors" to my friends and family sometimes. I literally couldnt care less what someone else says! I love health sciences but teeth in particular get me hype so I'm having the time of my life and going into the career of my dreams!

 

[8_man]

I joke that dentists "aren't real doctors" to my friends and family sometimes. I literally couldnt care less what someone else says! I love health sciences but teeth in particular get me hype so I'm having the time of my life and going into the career of my dreams!

If not being a "real doctor" involves a similar salary, fewer hours, and not getting your ass sued every other week, then sign me up!

 

[redhotchiligochu]

I joke that dentists "aren't real doctors" to my friends and family sometimes. I literally couldnt care less what someone else says! I love health sciences but teeth in particular get me hype so I'm having the time of my life and going into the career of my dreams!

LOL reminds me of Hangover 2, where Stu's father-in-law says in a Thai accent, "We don't consider dentist to be a real doctor."

 

[iAwesomE]

What's more important? Your goal or others' opinions of your goal?

 

[GypsyHummus]

I would say with the exception of the DAT, getting into dental school (DS) is actually harder than getting into medical school (MS).

For one, there are far fewer DS than there are MS. Now granted, there aren't as many people applying to DS than MS, but with that, there are fewer in state DS where the applicant gets an advantage. This leads to a much less generous waitlist for DS as well. I'm routinely surprised by the people who get nothing from DS schools on this site, would could have gotten into their state MD school.

Also, there are osteopathic schools which have grade replacement, (although they are making it harder to do every year) and to my knowledge, DS does not.

Also, many people use DS as a fallback to MS, and Admissions are aware of this and can spot this activity and shut people out.

While both tests are difficult, There is no comparison for the DAT to the MCAT. I say this with sincerity, and with respect to both professions: comparing the MCAT to the DAT is the equivalent of comparing running around a track 2 miles vs sprinting a 50K marathon the whole way like your life depends on it. The MCAT is the hardest non professional exam one can take. The MCAT is on a different planet compared to any other test out there. The DAT is difficult, but it is the equivalent of 2 really hard college finals stapled together. The MCAT is a test on everything you have ever encountered in your life. Reading comprehension is crazy key to do well.

I took a diagnostic on both and scored a 486 (15%) on the MCAT and a 17 on the DAT, and this was without studying, Though the DAT was much more organic Chem heavy, which is my strength.

If I had to do it all over again (I was a late bloomer, low 3.0s in my science classes freshmen-Jr year of college, 3.9 my senior year) I would tell myself to major in a science subject, do well (3.5+), get a job at a dentist office, and go to dental school. The lifestyle is much better for a dentist (with the exception of dermatology) and dentists seem to be much happier overall. It's also only 4 years.

 

[GypsyHummus]

It's been many years since I was in undergrad, but I wasn't a "pre-" anything back then but I do remember the "premeds" being very cutthroat, socially awkward, high-strung, and basically borderline psychopathic. Not really a friendly bunch to hang out with.

Amen to that, brother. With a small number of exceptions (mostly people who planned on going to DO school) premeds were just not fun. People wanting to go to dental school seemed much more upbeat.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Lol ya'll need to open your minds a little bit and stop being so judgmental. That is such a disgusting generalization and it makes you sound like you think you're better than them. Maybe it was just the people you were choosing to hang out with? I know plenty of pre med/med students who are awesome to hang out with and some of my best friends. I also know a decent amount of pre dental students who have ugly personalities whom I would never want to hang out with. It works both ways. There's absolutely no reason to bash the personalities of a different profession. You'll find multiple personalities in every field.

I did say a small number of exceptions young padawan.

 

[fayevalentine]

Okay, I'm not sure if there are just more douchebags where I am, but do any of you ever get condescending questions about pre-dentistry and the DAT, especially from pre-med students? And how do you deal with it? My DAT is in a few days and I've been studying really hard for it. However, it's really annoying when I get questions about what the difference between the DAT and MCAT is, and then I hear, "So like...is it hard?" just because it's shorter than the MCAT, has less material, has a PAT section (which I personally don't think is a cake walk at all, but it sounds "easy" to the regular person), is less of a "crowded" field I guess than pre-med. Like I've gotten several questions asking if it's hard. It just pisses me off when people undermine the hard work and stress we pre-dental students have to go through- it's the same as any pre-med student. And of course, when people don't recognize dentistry as a medical field, or make annoying stereotypes, the list goes on. Obviously anything you do will come with things people can pick on, but can someone reply with a good way they either ignore or address this stuff?

Who cares what those people think? You know you worked hard. So do your close friends/family/people who actually matter. Anyone trying to make themselves feel better by ****ting on another person's hard work is insecure and you should feel sorry for them.

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

Okay, I'm not sure if there are just more douchebags where I am, but do any of you ever get condescending questions about pre-dentistry and the DAT, especially from pre-med students? And how do you deal with it? My DAT is in a few days and I've been studying really hard for it. However, it's really annoying when I get questions about what the difference between the DAT and MCAT is, and then I hear, "So like...is it hard?" just because it's shorter than the MCAT, has less material, has a PAT section (which I personally don't think is a cake walk at all, but it sounds "easy" to the regular person), is less of a "crowded" field I guess than pre-med. Like I've gotten several questions asking if it's hard. It just pisses me off when people undermine the hard work and stress we pre-dental students have to go through- it's the same as any pre-med student. And of course, when people don't recognize dentistry as a medical field, or make annoying stereotypes, the list goes on. Obviously anything you do will come with things people can pick on, but can someone reply with a good way they either ignore or address this stuff?

Stop caring what other people think, if dentistry is what you want to do, nothing or no one can get in your way. You're almost at a monumental step in your life when you'll be applying and be hopefully attending dental school and if people can't acknowledge or realize this, then they are malignantly incompetent. There are jackasses in every branch of healthcare (pharm, med, dent, vet, opt, etc), professional or pre-professional, so if you're surrounded by these clowns, distance yourself. Kill the DAT and then laugh at them.