Where are all the caribean failure stories?

[Dr Air Jordan]

If there is a 40-50% attrition rate and then a 60% match rate from a school like SGU, why isn't there a thread on SDN or some other website FILLED with people's horror stories?

I'm trying to find the thousands upon thousands of stories but they seemingly don't exist on the internet. Did the Caribbean schools hire firms like reputation.com to protect what people see?

There is potentially some serious deception occurring by the Caribbean schools, is this illegal?

Oops I mispelled Caribbean in the title

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[HooliganSnail]

When I was a medical student I did rotations with several Caribbean students and there stories are jaw dropping. One said their class started with 600ish, but only 250 moved onto their clinical years......

Thousands of dollars to apply to 200+ residences all around the country, only to get like 5 interviews, and match into a prelim spot.........

Horrible

 

[NontradCA]

Moving on with their lives probably.

 

[Psai]

it's the same reason that people who get rejected to all medical schools usually don't post their stories

 

[Bancrofti]

There are plenty of anecdotal stories in the dozens of threads about Carib schools that people start every week. There are also plenty of online articles bashing Carib schools and the potential debt students may be left with online... you probably didn't search too hard.

 

[Dr Air Jordan]

But there should be something created that scares premeds out of bolting to the Caribbean

It's not something that many people seem to understand it's terrible they go into so much debt

 

[mcloaf]

But there should be something created that scares premeds out of bolting to the Caribbean

It's not something that many people seem to understand it's terrible they go into so much debt

The information is readily available for people looking with clear eyes and open minds. No amount of available info is going to deter people who are sure they were meant to be physicians if they can just get the chance and have no other options open to them.

 

[Say]

Why are you asking? Do you enjoy reading about peoples misery?

 

[Serous Demilune]

Why are you asking? Do you enjoy reading about peoples misery?

Isn't that what the internet is for? Besides porn I mean, that's for watching other people's misery.

 

[heybrother]

A couple of years ago the number of podiatry graduates exceeded the number of podiatry residency spots that were available by a significant margin. Requests for people to share their stories had very few responses. Its easy to overestimate the readership of this forum.

 

[Siggy]

Isn't that what the internet is for? Besides porn I mean, that's for watching other people's misery.

Strangely enough, both of those points are covered by the musical Avenue Q.

[side note before watching, the black woman is supposed to be depicting a fictional Gary Colman].

 

[MedWonk]

If there is a 40-50% attrition rate and then a 60% match rate from a school like SGU, why isn't there a thread on SDN or some other website FILLED with people's horror stories?

I'm trying to find the thousands upon thousands of stories but they seemingly don't exist on the internet. Did the Caribbean schools hire firms like reputation.com to protect what people see?

There is potentially some serious deception occurring by the Caribbean schools, is this illegal?

Oops I mispelled Caribbean in the title

This is some quality concern trolling here.

 

[Dr Air Jordan]

This is some quality concern trolling here.

I honestly don't understand how this is trolling...

It's a legit concern and question

 

[Kahreek]

they probably retire sooner and live in the caribeans for the rest of their lifes anyway. Blessed by the gods of sunshine, clear blue water and rum.

 

[colbgw02]

I've always known that if it's on the internet, then it must be true. But today I learned the inverse. That is, if it's not on the internet, then it must not be true.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

http://www.2medschool.com/
http://www.4medschool.com/
http://www.6medschool.com/

Here you go

 

[Serous Demilune]

These are really depressing. It's like a car wreck you can't stop looking at.

 

[thepoopologist]

http://southerndoccarib.blogspot.com/?m=1

Yikes.

 

[qwerty89]

http://southerndoccarib.blogspot.com/2012/02/caribbean-medical-school-and-us-medical.html

 

[thepoopologist]

http://southerndoccarib.blogspot.com/2007/09/im-over-35-is-it-still-worth-it-to-go.html?m=0

SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2007

WOW I thought I would never be in Medical School at 43 but here I am!
3 kids one in college now, a wife and ex, 19 years as a RN, I have been through a lot, so why do this, take on 180k of debt, sell my house and go around the world to get the MD?

Because I would not be happy with myself ever again if I didn't!
For some its the Corvette, it's the beautiful young wife they want ( my wife is beautiful at any age)
it's the beach house or the hunting cabin and so on, for me it was to be a Doc!

Is it worth it?

I look at it this way...... A house is anywhere between 200 and 1 million dollars in 2007 so if I rack up 180k in student loans thats nothing now, it's cheap! I live in Southern Ga where I can build a house on 5+ acres for 250k or less, so I have this loan and a nice house for much less then most will pay for 1 house and not being a DOC!

the years loss income ect.... Sure I lost income but look at it:

4 year loss income at lets say 55k a year ( I was between 50 and 60k as a RN)

OK so 22ok loss, but after grad residency = 40k plus housing allowance ( another 10k) so about 50k, I'm Back, 3 years then private practice, the Docs I'm doing rotations are making 200 to 300k a year and the Hospital pays the Malpractice for them to have the practice in affiliation with them. ( I know you hear the sad stories about Docs and how much they do not make and on the internet they have lower pay rates, do not believe everything you read or hear) So............. I will make up the money like this

Subtract the 55k a year for the 1st 4 years of Practice and we will use 200k Uh thats 145k left pay back loans subtract out 12k a year thats still 133k a year I would not have made................

Does it pay off I think I made my point.

I will be a MD at age 45

I will practice ( planned) till age 70, thats 25 years, if you take out residency thats 22 years of the 200k or more 200k x 22 years is how much? 4.4 Million,

55k at 22 years? 1.2 million so yea I will win the Life lottery IMO.

If I live Comfortable I can save money for after 65yr and semi retire.



Life can be good real good!

Good Luck

 

[thepoopologist]

http://southerndoccarib.blogspot.com/2013_03_01_archive.html?m=0
SUNDAY, MARCH 31, 2013

Is it time to SUE?

• I have over 190k in US student loans,
• I passed the USMLE,
• I graduated,
• Residency is not medical school it is a Job and post Medical School training,

Here is the RUB You can pass the licensure test but cannot be licensed with out a US residency.


You are qualified for Residency since you passed the test SO Is the Government, who makes laws for licensure and funds residencies, now responsible to ensure all that can pass the test have an opportunity to practice? Is it legal to underfund a program required by law so that people who have passed the qualification test to practice medicine cannot practice? Is this not a violation of my right to pursue happiness? To work? To provide for my family? To pay back my loans? Hmm I think I may be on to something here. The Government has not been challenged on this before because it was a non issue, now its an issue Law says you must have a residency to be licensed after passing the tests You passed the test So where is the residency?

Required by law but administered by a non regulated system and underfunded by public money


We Ask then, is it time for the Courts to get involved and help us clean up this mess and we move on and practice medicine?

 

[qwerty89]

That dude failed Step 1 multiple times and I believe transferred from one carib school to another.

Now he thinks the system is rigged against him.

https://twitter.com/drfp1 is his twitter.

His post from Nov 21st: "Still no invite for interview "

That just makes me sad.

 

[thepoopologist]

http://southerndoccarib.blogspot.com/2013/02/update-on-my-story.html?m=0

2/23/13

My story, Past and up to present.

I graduated Nursing school in 1989 and Passed my Licensing test for RN the first time.

I went on to work as a Trauma Nurse and ER and Cardiac nurse the next few years.

I then wanted to work in Home Health and Home Infusion. Somehow ended up working in Home Hospice.

Then after 9 years of Nursing I told my wife I wanted to go back to school and study to go to medical school. My answer was "No your not!!!!" She had dreams of staying home the rest of her life and not working and wanted me to support her lifestyle. A few years later we are divorced (Surprised? )

I remarried and after a couple years still wanted to go to medical school but I was getting older and at 39 started to look into my options, I cleaned up my credit and a year later was accepted at St. Christophers College of Medicine in Luton England. Great right? Well........ I packed my bags sold my house and took my wife and son to England to live on US student loans (Key Bank). I was accepted into the premed program to "Finish Ochem" and allowed to take some medical school courses, after a year I found out that the school had charter issues with Senegal and I was being tossed around from medical school to premed and back with no clear path. I applied to St. James School of medicine on Bonaire and was accepted as a transfer. Since I had not taken a full 1st semester at St. Chris and getting transcripts from that school was next to impossible I decided to retake the courses I had already passed. Good clean slate right? So I went through basic science and passed all my classes, Sallie Mae was lending the money for study and all was god. I came back to the US after White Coat and rented a house in Georgia to begin Clinicals. Then a life changing event happened, Sallie Mae told me 1 more semester and that was it, no more loans to finish medical school. OMG what to do? I had no idea how I would finish and this was so unfair. No one cared and Congress just ignored my pleas. My mother in law and others helped me to pay for the coming semesters. The first year I studied for step one but with so much on me, trying to pay bills, rent and tuition, I could not study well and I kept having panic attacks. When I tool Step one I did not pass, I struggled for a few more attempts. St. James gave me a problem with Clinicals by the middle of my 4th year, they told me none of the clinicals counted I had done the past 18 weeks counted. I was still in 3rd year and I had better pass step one. I had paid them for the semesters ( 3 in a year) but they refused to count my work despite the good reviews I had. So I left and applied to transfer to All Saints (Now Aureus) School of medicine. It was decided I would do a year with them and with the transcripts from St James, it was decided that I would do Cores that are usually done in 3rd year in my 4th year. (Yes Strange) This made sense since Aureus had a better clinical system. I passed Step One and went on to finish my rotations. I still had no loans and used tax returns and worked some to pay for school. We lived on 50 dollars a week for groceries and I still have no idea where I had money for gas for the car. I then attempted step 2, with all the stress and the panic attacks it took 2 more times for me to get myself under control and pass step 2.

Today: I graduated Medical School 2011, I was ECFMG certified last year in 2012. I paid for and applied to over 200 programs in the residency match for 2013 and have not been given one interview. I have no idea what I will do but I will not give in or give up. I will fight and I hope I will still get a residency this year. I'm studying for step 3 and hope to take it and pass this April.

I hope my story helps other make their decisions. I think my biggest mistake was multiple attempts on step one then step 2 before getting my panic attacks during testing was under better control. You truly cannot think when in panic mode and now take a beta blocker before and during the day's testing.

So, I will not stop, give up or loose faith, I will fight until I succeed

Dr. Bill

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I know US med students who have failed step 3 multiple times and have tons of interviews for family, community IM, neurology and psychiatry. As long as a US med medical student graduates you at least have something. Not true with IMGs.

 

[tea guzzling traveler]

These really are depressing... the combination of initial hope and extreme ignorance, moving on to the disillusionment and despair... ouch.

 

[Stagg737]

Another thing to consider is that many of the Carib students are from other countries and aren't planning on practicing in the U.S. I knew people at my undergrad from S. America and Africa who are now in med school in the caribbean and plan on going back to their home countries afterwards to practice. I also hate MDapps, you hear all the success stories, but never see the people who don't get in (which are the people that pre-meds can really learn from...).

 

[deleted500612]

If there is a 40-50% attrition rate and then a 60% match rate from a school like SGU, why isn't there a thread on SDN or some other website FILLED with people's horror stories?

I'm trying to find the thousands upon thousands of stories but they seemingly don't exist on the internet. Did the Caribbean schools hire firms like reputation.com to protect what people see?

There is potentially some serious deception occurring by the Caribbean schools, is this illegal?

Oops I mispelled Caribbean in the title

This is exactly why it needs to be difficult to get into Medical School. Some people are deluded into thinking that despite their complete lack of work ethic and/or intelligence that have prohibited them from studying medicine in the US, they can still become a doctor simply because they were extended an admission letter by some school on an island that will let nearly anyone in who has enough money to pay for it. They think admission to medical school means they are handed an MD on a silver platter. Then when these people get there and realize they are living in a developing country without many luxuries they take for granted, and on top of that they are made to actually do a lot of work, a third of them just throw up their arms and drop out.

Another third of Caribbean students will do the bare minimum to pass medical school, just like they did to pass undergrad (which is the exact attitude that held them back from getting into an allo school in the first place). They will graduate from the Caribbean with a 195 on the step I, perhaps after a couple of attempts at it, and a couple mediocre reference letters from clinicians who are willing to write something entirely generic about their entirely unremarkable efforts on the ward. They are then shocked that they don't get into a residency with a track record like that. They will b|tch and complain about how they were tricked into thinking that becoming a doctor was a guarantee, an entitlement even... because after all, they went to medical school! Just coast your way through with the bare minimum of effort and you'll still be handed a guaranteed 200k job at the end of it right?!?

Then the final third of Caribbean students are the ones who will make legitimately good physicians. These are people, who for whatever reason, did not put forth enough effort in undergrad, or were struggling with something in life during the years that matter most, and now it is simply too late to fix it. These are the people who feel genuinely grateful for a second chance at living their version of the American dream, and they make damn sure to make the most of it and not repeat their mistakes. A lot of these people will end up with step scores well above the US average because they are genuinely bright and motivated individuals, who simply didnt know what they wanted to do in life yet, or made mistakes in their past studies that they now genuinely regret. They know they have to bust their ass now to make up for it, as they are already at a disadvantage. Because of IMG status, they may not secure the most prestigious or desirable residencies, but the vast majority of this demographic will attain US residencies, and deservingly so.

Basically, someone's success at a Caribbean school is not entirely a "gamble" and is not left entirely up to chance. It is largely dependent on one's own abilities and efforts. The system is not broken or unfair, it rewards those who work hard and perform highly. It always has and it always will. If they score high, get raving LoRs, and a solid EC they'll most certainly match somehwere, even if its not a top program or their first choice of specialty. The problem is that such a huge portion of students moving off to study medicine in the Caribbean do not belong in a medical school at all (hence why they were not admitted in the US), and are entirely delusional about their own abilities and the fact that becoming a physician in the US requires much more than just being sent a letter of admission from some Caribbean medical school. Nobody likes to think that they aren't good enough to become a physician, but the harsh reality is that a lot of people really aren't. The tragedy is that there are plenty of institutions out there that are fully aware of this and will continue to take their money, feeding into their delusional fantasies that will ultimately come crashing down in a heap of financial ruin.

 

[Kahreek]

If they really want to be a doctor they can go and practice in Panama or something. I guess.
You could also pick the tuiton money live there without working for a good cosy while.

 

[Raryn]

http://www.2medschool.com/
http://www.4medschool.com/
http://www.6medschool.com/

Here you go

http://southerndoccarib.blogspot.com/?m=1

Holy crap those are scary.

 

[PL198]

Reading about these 40 yr old dudes going to med school is so annoying. At some point you're just deluding yourself and taking a spot away from someone who will work twice as long as you. In 10 years are they going to let 50 year olds in? I imagine those people are complete tools in residency, where they think their non trad status means something, just like they did in med school

 

[PL198]

I love how the carribean is set up. The people are there because they screwed up, it should be insanely difficult

 

[fancymylotus]

Yet another one of my jerk exes was this guy I dated when I was a resident who was finishing up his anesthesia residency, he graduated from some Caribbean school but I guess worked really hard and did really well..however the horror stories he told me about the attrition rates were legitimately nuts.

 

[NontradCA]

Reading about these 40 yr old dudes going to med school is so annoying. At some point you're just deluding yourself and taking a spot away from someone who will work twice as long as you. In 10 years are they going to let 50 year olds in? I imagine those people are complete tools in residency, where they think their non trad status means something, just like they did in med school

I have a 40 year old in my class and they are completely humble..

 

[PL198]

I have a 40 year old in my class and they are completely humble..

the non-trads I know who are cocky and try to act like they have some superior knowledge to everyone are early 30s. my point is just that it's stupid for schools to let in these 40 yr old people when their career longevity is probably half as long as their counterpart. Yeah if the dude gets a 40 on the MCAT, let him in, but I don't get that vibe from any of the really older non-trads I know and I'm sure there's a plethora of people with 99 % of the academic achievements

 

[3rdan]

I went to look at a house and the realtor, upon learning my profession, said he had an MD degree from the Caribbean. He said the overall success rate there was poor.

 

[NontradCA]

the non-trads I know who are cocky and try to act like they have some superior knowledge to everyone are early 30s. my point is just that it's stupid for schools to let in these 40 yr old people when their career longevity is probably half as long as their counterpart. Yeah if the dude gets a 40 on the MCAT, let him in, but I don't get that vibe from any of the really older non-trads I know and I'm sure there's a plethora of people with 99 % of the academic achievements

Yea whatever man. When you grow up, go into healthcare policy and change it then.

 

[MedWonk]

the non-trads I know who are cocky and try to act like they have some superior knowledge to everyone are early 30s. my point is just that it's stupid for schools to let in these 40 yr old people when their career longevity is probably half as long as their counterpart. Yeah if the dude gets a 40 on the MCAT, let him in, but I don't get that vibe from any of the really older non-trads I know and I'm sure there's a plethora of people with 99 % of the academic achievements

Truth. I'm pretty cocky.

 

[sazerac]

Caribbean schools kind of remind me of home loans in 2005. There were a lot of crazy, nonstandard loans available then, and they actually were useful financial instruments in a few cases, as long as you could also qualify for a traditional 20% down 30 year mortgage. But giving these loans to everybody including the unqualified was just asking for trouble.

the non-trads I know who are cocky and try to act like they have some superior knowledge to everyone are early 30s. my point is just that it's stupid for schools to let in these 40 yr old people when their career longevity is probably half as long as their counterpart. Yeah if the dude gets a 40 on the MCAT, let him in, but I don't get that vibe from any of the really older non-trads I know and I'm sure there's a plethora of people with 99 % of the academic achievements

the same can be said for women, who consistently work fewer hours in their medical career than their male counterparts. Should we exclude women too?

 

[PL198]

Caribbean schools kind of remind me of home loans in 2005. There were a lot of crazy, nonstandard loans available then, and they actually were useful financial instruments in a few cases, as long as you could also qualify for a traditional 20% down 30 year mortgage. But giving these loans to everybody including the unqualified was just asking for trouble.

the same can be said for women, who consistently work fewer hours in their medical career than their male counterparts. Should we exclude women too?

yeah ban em all

but really if you can't see the difference between someone who won't be able to practice till they are 50+ and a woman choosing to work less, I can't help you

 

[Stagg737]

We have several people in my class in their mid to late 30s and 3-4 people in my class who are over 40 and none of them is the least bit cocky other than the guy who's probably our valedictorian. Even he isn't that cocky, just extremely confident and outgoing. Almost all of them also plan on going into primary care. Considering we've got a shortage of PCPs and a huge percentage of students who still want to specialize, I'd say it's not that bad of a thing.

However, if the person is 45 and M1 and plans on going into something like cardiothoracic surgery then I'm with you. I'd like to think the competitive fields will go to people who will be practicing for more than 10-15 years.

 

[mcloaf]

TBH I find the older non-trads at my school much less annoying than really young early 20's kids who never learned how to have any sense of self-worth without being externally validated by their grades.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I think historically this is probably a fairly accurate breakdown. But I think due to two factors (1 the expansion of US schools and 2 the expanding class size/predatory behaviors of the caribbean schools as they mature their for-profit business model) that last 1/3 is getting squeezed out. It used to be fairly acceptable for a "late bloomer" to go to the carib and still match into a decent spot. That is becoming less the case by the year - in some measure because the smart late bloomers are taking advantage of US MD expansion and snagging those spots

This. Also, there is some cross over among the "thirds" outlined by @sidefx. I'm sure some people go and work their tail off and still fail to graduate. Usually due to not having what it takes (academic background, etc).

 

[Psai]

We have several people in my class in their mid to late 30s and 3-4 people in my class who are over 40 and none of them is the least bit cocky other than the guy who's probably our valedictorian. Even he isn't that cocky, just extremely confident and outgoing. Almost all of them also plan on going into primary care. Considering we've got a shortage of PCPs and a huge percentage of students who still want to specialize, I'd say it's not that bad of a thing.

However, if the person is 45 and M1 and plans on going into something like cardiothoracic surgery then I'm with you. I'd like to think the competitive fields will go to people who will be practicing for more than 10-15 years.

Valedictorian is an academic title conferred upon the student who delivers the closing or farewell statement at a graduation ceremony (called a valedictory).

 

[Stagg737]

At schools like Ross, SGU - that's actually a tiny proportion of their student body. Vast majority are US students/planning on doing residency in the US.

I could see that. They sent me enough advertisements after I applied for MD schools. The person I still talk to down there goes to UMHS on St. Kitts. He's originally from Nigeria and he said he feels like most of his classmates are international (non-U.S.) students, though from what I've heard it's also not a typical Caribbean school.

 

[ACSurgeon]

If there is a 40-50% attrition rate and then a 60% match rate from a school like SGU, why isn't there a thread on SDN or some other website FILLED with people's horror stories?

I'm trying to find the thousands upon thousands of stories but they seemingly don't exist on the internet. Did the Caribbean schools hire firms like reputation.com to protect what people see?

There is potentially some serious deception occurring by the Caribbean schools, is this illegal?

Oops I mispelled Caribbean in the title

I would imagine a large percentage fallout within a semester, cut their losses and move on to something else. You won't hear much from this group.

The next large percentage of people are psychologically damaged for life. The two people I know personally who failed out fall in the category. This group is usually too embarrased or depressed or bitter about their failure to share their story.

The last group will use sdn or other means of communicating their story. This ends up being a much smaller percentage of those who fail to attain the MD, or fail to get a residency.

 

[Stagg737]

Valedictorian is an academic title conferred upon the student who delivers the closing or farewell statement at a graduation ceremony (called a valedictory).

First in class then. I'd be absolutely shocked if he's not top 5 in the class seeing as he basically considers any test where he misses more than 5 questions a failure.

 

[PL198]

TBH I find the older non-trads at my school much less annoying than really young early 20's kids who never learned how to have any sense of self-worth without being externally validated by their grades.

yeah those people are tools too

 

[PL198]

I could see that. They sent me enough advertisements after I applied for MD schools. The person I still talk to down there goes to UMHS on St. Kitts. He's originally from Nigeria and he said he feels like most of his classmates are international (non-U.S.) students, though from what I've heard it's also not a typical Caribbean school.

they still send me emails, I don't get it

 

[giantswing]

Lets be honest: most people in med school have a little bit of tool in them.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Lets be honest: most people in med school have a little bit of tool in them.

correction: most current people in the world have a little bit of tool in them.

It's a dog eat dog world out there.