Where to go to Medical School - International Student.

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Giovanotto

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Hello there,

I am creating this thread in order to get a better idea of where I can/want to go to medical school.

Where I am considering going:
1)U.S. (MD vs DO, haven't decided yet).
2)Caribbean
3) Italy, or somewhere else in Europe
4)Philippines?

In the future I hope to be able to practice in the U.S.. I have some money saved up - 15 to 25,000.00 USD, however, not enough to pay for school for options 1, 2 or 4, without getting out loans.

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Option 3 would make the most sense. You are an EU citizen, wouldn't that be the path of least resistance? Without US citizenship or permenant residency, your chances are almost nil (someone correct me if I'm wrong) to try to do something in the US.
 
Correct, I am an EU citizen. However, I have heard from many that the path to U.S. residency and/or citizenship after an international M.D. degree is incredibly tough?

I suppose another option would be to wait it out until I get permanent residency and then apply to schools here? Not sure how long it would take - probably talking marriage/into my 30s at this point.
 
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Correct, I am an EU citizen. However, I have heard from many that the path to U.S. residency and/or citizenship after an international M.D. degree is incredibly tough?

I suppose another option would be to wait it out until I get permanent residency and then apply to schools here? Not sure how long it would take - probably talking marriage/into my 30s at this point.

Yes, the path to US Residency after an international MD degree will be incredibly tough but will be equally tough or maybe even tougher to get into a US medical school as a non-US citizen or permanent resident.

Based on what you described, it makes no sense why you wouldn't pursue a medical degree and do your residency in Europe. If you really want to practice in the US, you could always come here after practicing in Europe for a few years.
 
It's going to be incredibly hard and pricey to attend any US school. Is money at all an issue? Because they will want to verify your ability to pay, and they could even ask for all tuition up front. If you can do that, you could get into an Osteopathic program. I've met a few international applicants at WesternU (since you mention SoCal), and if your MCAT is greater than the school average (currently at 29), I can see the possibility of attending. Try calling WesternU and other schools you're interested in directly to see what they say. MD is going to be significantly harder given that you have a 3.6, which is below most school's average. If that's not a possibility, you might just want to plan for a career in the EU. Don't even consider the caribbean. US citizens already have it hard. International + Caribbean would be like a death sentence.
 
Interesting. I would just like to ask why you are not yet a citizen or permanent resident in the US?

77 schools accept international students. It would be tougher and they would expect payment of a year (or two?) in advance.

Interesting that you would consider the Philippines. Why so?
I wouldn't consider the Philippines a good option as it would be difficult to return to the U.S. as well. Research is quite limited in PI schools.

How long would it take for you to become a permanent resident?
 
Why wouldn't you just go to med school in europe? Tuition is close to nil and the quality of life is pretty damn good.
 
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It's going to be incredibly hard and pricey to attend any US school. Is money at all an issue? Because they will want to verify your ability to pay, and they could even ask for all tuition up front. If you can do that, you could get into an Osteopathic program. I've met a few international applicants at WesternU (since you mention SoCal), and if your MCAT is greater than the school average (currently at 29), I can see the possibility of attending. Try calling WesternU and other schools you're interested in directly to see what they say. MD is going to be significantly harder given that you have a 3.6, which is below most school's average. If that's not a possibility, you might just want to plan for a career in the EU. Don't even consider the caribbean. US citizens already have it hard. International + Caribbean would be like a death sentence.

Money, is one of the biggest issues, yes. I would be taking out private loans with a cosigner. I was not sure how the Caribbean system worked with regards to citizenship, but I will take your word for it.
 
Interesting. I would just like to ask why you are not yet a citizen or permanent resident in the US?

77 schools accept international students. It would be tougher and they would expect payment of a year (or two?) in advance.

Interesting that you would consider the Philippines. Why so?
I wouldn't consider the Philippines a good option as it would be difficult to return to the U.S. as well. Research is quite limited in PI schools.

How long would it take for you to become a permanent resident?

The path to citizenship/permanent residency is one that unfortunately many Americans are unfamiliar with. All of the visas that I have had are non-immigrating visas. The only one that is, is the H1B, which I was not picked for (lottery system). I considered the Philippines because I was told by a foreign doctor that they practice Medicine the same way the US does, and therefore it would be an easy transition. I don't even have the option of becoming a PR at this point. Marriage is the only way, with the exception being to get into a research program and apply for a cap-exempt H1B visa.
 
It's ridiculous that we kick out people who come here legally and who will be highly educated, tax-paying, contributing members of society, but we reward unskilled illegals by turning a blind eye. Because we need more cheap farm workers, restaurant cooks, public school enrollees, ER patients, and landscapers than we do doctors. 'Murica. Time to sign up for medical Spanish classes.

Consult an immigration lawyer or just break the law and stay here illegally and hope for amnesty. Or move to an Italian-American community. Tell them you're going to a doctor and people will offer up their kids for marriage.

It really is ridiculous. I feel gutted. I have an immigration lawyer and he really does not think I have many options either - no help basically. I'm not sure marriage is something I want at this point, even if it means PR status.

I am really considering going the EU route, however, my father is strongly against this (he is there right now and does not recommend it).
 
It's ridiculous that we kick out people who come here legally and who will be highly educated, tax-paying, contributing members of society, but we reward unskilled illegals by turning a blind eye. Because we need more cheap farm workers, restaurant cooks, public school enrollees, ER patients, and landscapers than we do doctors. 'Murica. Time to sign up for medical Spanish classes.

Consult an immigration lawyer or just break the law and stay here illegally and hope for amnesty. Or move to an Italian-American community. Tell them you're going to a doctor and people will offer up their kids for marriage.

So tell us how you really feel?

Or maybe decide to stick to the topic and not go off on tangential immigration rants lest I be forced to start inserting gratuitous daily show, colbert report, and oliver show videos.
 
Hello there,

I am creating this thread in order to get a better idea of where I can/want to go to medical school. I have lived in the U.S. for the last 13 years (middle, high school and college), and am now 23 (almost 24) years old. I have been in the United States on a visa of some sort for all of this time. I am currently working under OPT in a Pathology Laboratory (~ 2 years now). Unfortunately, my H1B application was not picked in the lottery so come November of this year I have to either leave the country and go back to Italy (citizen there) or sign up to school (community college) and buy myself time until I can get into a MD/DO program. Anyway, I have a science (Chemistry) GPA of around 3.6 from a Private Jesuit School in Southern California. I am signed up to take the MCAT in late October of this year, for the first time, however I have not yet begun studying.

Where I am considering going:
1)U.S. (MD vs DO, haven't decided yet).
2)Caribbean
3) Italy, or somewhere else in Europe
4)Philippines?

In the future I hope to be able to practice in the U.S.. I have some money saved up - 15 to 25,000.00 USD, however, not enough to pay for school for options 1, 2 or 4, without getting out loans.

What kind of chances do you have for getting into an Italian school? Or a European school
 
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The path to citizenship/permanent residency is one that unfortunately many Americans are unfamiliar with. All of the visas that I have had are non-immigrating visas. The only one that is, is the H1B, which I was not picked for (lottery system). I considered the Philippines because I was told by a foreign doctor that they practice Medicine the same way the US does, and therefore it would be an easy transition. I don't even have the option of becoming a PR at this point. Marriage is the only way, with the exception being to get into a research program and apply for a cap-exempt H1B visa.

Yeah, sorry about that. I was under the impression that you could apply for a change of status after so-long in the U.S. I guess not. I am a bit familiar with the H1B though as my cousin constantly is unlucky with its lottery system.

I was lucky enough to have been adopted in my pre-adolescent years which granted my citizenship.

Well medicine is quite similar in the Philippines, but some terms may be different. Most of the diagnoses are dependent on a very good analysis of the Hx and PE, as you would have to avoid ancillary procedures as much as possible mainly because they're too expensive for most of the population. Information overload, though. Too many subjects and it's typical, at some schools, for there to be quizzes every meeting of every subject. Pre- and/or post-lecture. You don't have time to go over your lessons for the day because you have to study for the quizzes in other subjects the next day. You're in school from 7am until 4pm to 6pm. Clinical rotations don't begin until 4th year, but that doesn't mean the typical 2-year sciences are spread out to 3 years. Clinical subjects are lectured in 2nd and 3rd year to including but not limited to OB/Gyn, Pediatrics, Surgery (and its subspecialties), Dermatology, Psychiatry. It's a rather nice experience to have your hand held throughout these though, rather than throwing you out into your clinical rotations. Some schools require a research paper to be done in groups for graduation, culminating in an oral defense. Graduating from medical school entails passing a cumulative written exam in 4th year, and an oral exam where you are given a case to diagnose and present in front of a panel.

If you were to really consider the route, make sure you are ready for a very demanding Asian curriculum that demands so much from its students. A year in school is typically less than USD 3,000 (tuition only) but note that research opportunities are limited in the whole country, and many doctors end up becoming nurses in the U.S. instead.

I wouldn't suggest it. Haha.
 
What kind of chances do you have for getting into an Italian school? Or a European school

I believe starting next year, the Italian medical system will be like the French one: Everyone gets accepted, but after the first year, you take a test, and if you don't pass it, you're done.
 
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Yeah, sorry about that. I was under the impression that you could apply for a change of status after so-long in the U.S. I guess not. I am a bit familiar with the H1B though as my cousin constantly is unlucky with its lottery system.

I was lucky enough to have been adopted in my pre-adolescent years which granted my citizenship.

Well medicine is quite similar in the Philippines, but some terms may be different. Most of the diagnoses are dependent on a very good analysis of the Hx and PE, as you would have to avoid ancillary procedures as much as possible mainly because they're too expensive for most of the population. Information overload, though. Too many subjects and it's typical, at some schools, for there to be quizzes every meeting of every subject. Pre- and/or post-lecture. You don't have time to go over your lessons for the day because you have to study for the quizzes in other subjects the next day. You're in school from 7am until 4pm to 6pm. Clinical rotations don't begin until 4th year, but that doesn't mean the typical 2-year sciences are spread out to 3 years. Clinical subjects are lectured in 2nd and 3rd year to including but not limited to OB/Gyn, Pediatrics, Surgery (and its subspecialties), Dermatology, Psychiatry. It's a rather nice experience to have your hand held throughout these though, rather than throwing you out into your clinical rotations. Some schools require a research paper to be done in groups for graduation, culminating in an oral defense. Graduating from medical school entails passing a cumulative written exam in 4th year, and an oral exam where you are given a case to diagnose and present in front of a panel.

If you were to really consider the route, make sure you are ready for a very demanding Asian curriculum that demands so much from its students. A year in school is typically less than USD 3,000 (tuition only) but note that research opportunities are limited in the whole country, and many doctors end up becoming nurses in the U.S. instead.

I wouldn't suggest it. Haha.

Thank you so much for writing that all out. Really puts things into perspective. I suppose I will also not go this route then, for reasons even beyond what you've mentioned. This was my wild card pick.
 
I believe starting next year, the Italian medical system will be like the French one: Everyone gets accepted, but after the first year, you take a test, and if you don't pass it, you're done.

I have a friend who just finished med school in Italy. I hear getting into specialization/residency can be tough, a lot of politics and knowing the right people. He is trying to come to the US too.

With the looming residency crunch, if you really want to practice in the US, then I think you should stop considering all foreign medical schools. I'm a EU citizen too (Sweden) and I know Sweden will actually help me some with tuition (in US Med school), I don't know if Italy is the same. You should look into applying to schools that accept international students and/or take classes to improve your GPA (and stay here). Also you need to do well on the MCAT. This way you can increase your chances of getting into a US med school, then hopefully get into a school, then you'll have four more years and what not, and hopefully be able to figure out a way to get permanents status.

The way things are looking, if you don't go to a school in the US, then you will most likely not be practicing in the US.
 
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I'm starting to look at PA programs now too...
 
If you're open to non-physician occupations, then think about nursing or physical therapy as well. Specifically these two because they are Schedule A occupations identified by the Dept. of Labor as not requiring labor certification (as of today). Once you're a licensed RN or PT, your employer can file a 140 without requiring labor certification. Of course, this would mean that you'd have to practice as an RN or PT for a few, if not several, years. This would be the same with marriage as well - marriage-based green cards are conditional for 2 or 3 years if I recall, after which you are generally safe if you choose to divorce. I would think the same with a job, but an attorney could advise you. This would be a long path starting now --> nursing/PT --> green card --> work for X years --> switch to MD/DO. Could be 6-7 years or more to the "begin MD/DO" point. However, your other options for staying here don't look all that great either.

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/perm_detail.cfm#schedule

If you go PA, you still have to deal with H1B issues when you graduate.
 
Giovanotto, I've been in a situation similar to yours so I thought I should give you my two cents. Don't let the PR situation dissuade you from applying to med school in the US if that is what you really want to do (if you have a passion for medicine). My understanding is that it is harder to get in if you don't have PR but not impossible. I was given incorrect advice on this years ago and still regret it to this day for not applying. The foreign medical school route is not a good idea. I have family who have done that and it's more trouble than it's worth even if you were an experienced physician somewhere else. My advice is to ID all the med schools who will accept applications from international students (there's 77), get a good score on MCAT and apply to both DO and MD programs alike. Dont be afraid to afraid to apply to lower ranked programs- this is medicine and doctors are in demand. You don't need to be from a top tier med school to find a decent job like in other fields (for example law). Once you get in, your perspective and understanding of your options post-graduation will be enhanced and more options will open up (there are more people in your situation than you think and the quality of people you meet in grad school will help). The immigration system is on the verge (few years) on being reformed anyway and the new system will likely be skill based (extra points/chances of getting PR if you have higher education in US and lived here for long time, speak language well etc). Worst case scenario, you will not do your residency right after you finish med school, but you will still have your MD degree and will be able to start your residency once your PR situation resolves. It is a much better option than doing something you are not truly passionate about and realizing down the road that you should have applied to med school. Knock on the doors you want to go trough even if they don't open, more of them are open than you think.
 
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Hello, I have a question about getting into the Medical School in Milan, is anyone familiar? I am starting college in Boston this year but I would like to transfer into the International Medical School in Milan, does anyone know what the chances are for getting in if you have an EU passport that is not ?
 
I went to go see an Italian Nephrologist today that perhaps could help me. He highly recommended I go to medical school in the UK as coming back would be way easier. Any thoughts on this?
 
No idea about Milan.
UK med schools- a few may be easier, but it still will not be easy.
If your end goal is to practice medicine in the US, then you really need to find a way to go to a US med school.
You've been given some good advice here already on that front.
Good luck!
 
I went to go see an Italian Nephrologist today that perhaps could help me. He highly recommended I go to medical school in the UK as coming back would be way easier. Any thoughts on this?

First, it's not easy. As enrollment is increasing at US med schools faster than residency slots are increasing, it won't be too many years before the demand for non-US educated people drops to nil. Second, the term "UK" lumps highly and not very highly regarded programs together. The top school in England probably gets you further than the place in Ireland that used to be an alternative to the Caribbean for struggling US students.
 
I believe it would be nice to update everyone on here about my application cycle thus far.
I have, as of right now, one acceptance to one of the newer DO schools. Lets see if I can get any more.
Thank you guys for convincing me to stay here in the U.S.
 
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Awesome! Good choice and congratulations!
 
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Interesting. I would just like to ask why you are not yet a citizen or permanent resident in the US?

77 schools accept international students. It would be tougher and they would expect payment of a year (or two?) in advance.

Interesting that you would consider the Philippines. Why so?
I wouldn't consider the Philippines a good option as it would be difficult to return to the U.S. as well. Research is quite limited in PI schools.

How long would it take for you to become a permanent resident?
The PI is ridiculously cheap, has a 4-year MD program similar to the US (a result of our shaping their medical education system), and has the second largest population of IMGs in the country practicing. Unfortunately though, that door has largely closed due to the increasing competitiveness of the match, which is a pity, because PI IMGs tend to be excellent.
 
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