which degree is right for me?

[titanz7]

So I just joined the forum about two hours ago to look up some information and insights about Psy.D schools/programs. After coming across many topics and discussions, I don't even know if I want to do Psy.D program anymore.

So basically, I am very much interested in the clinical/practicum of clinical psychology. I am not really interested in researching. I would probably never do research after graduating from school.
I read somewhere that if I am not really looking for research, I should do Masters program. However, I am afraid of the limited opportunities I would have with Master's program in psychology. I also feel like I would learn less about psychology than I would like. I would actually really enjoy the academic part of doctoral psychology.

So any advice or opinions would be great!

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[Ettevi05]

You can get an insider's guide to clinical and counseling programs (they sell it on Amazon) and look up at schools to know if their departments are more oriented in research or clinical practicum (I think it's rate in a 1-10 scale, or 1-5). If you only plan to do therapy though, a masters licensing program will prepare you for that, it is a terminal degree. You'll get internship hours, be trained to do therapy, for a fraction of a cost compared to PhD or PsyDs. Most of the time PhD programs require a dissertation so you will, to an extent have to go through training in research methods, theory, statistics, etc., if you mean the academic part of doctoral psychology, that's what you will have to do for the most part, plus clinical /assessment courses.You can look into a mixture of Clinical/Counseling PhD programs and Psy D programs, but I think if you are solely interested in the therapy aspect, you could be really well off with just a licensing masters.

Also just a little FYI, I think any health related license requires you to keep up with current research. My parents are in the medical field and they have to occasionally go to conferences/workshops in order to learn more about the most current up-to-date research in medications, illnesses, treatments, etc. And have to be re-licensed every so years, so to understand research and be able to know at least the basics may be useful. It's always something you will have to come across in your career if you want to provide your patients with up-to-date treatments.

 

[CSOPP]

I felt the same way you did when I was graduating from my Bachelor's program. I had spent enough time doing research in that program to know that I did not want that to be my main focus (not that I don't appreciate research- I do). I decided to get a Master's degree and then worked for two years. However, it became apparent to me that I had "hit my limit" in terms of what I could do with an M.A., so I decided to go back and get a Psy.D. I have never once regretted this decision. There are pros and cons to this decision, of course, so if you want to PM me and discuss this, please do.

I will also say that there is a lot of negativity on this board against the Psy.D., so take what you read with a grain of salt. I'm far along in my program and landed a stellar internship, but there are even times when I feel discouraged due to things said on this board.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I felt the same way you did when I was graduating from my Bachelor's program. I had spent enough time doing research in that program to know that I did not want that to be my main focus (not that I don't appreciate research- I do). I decided to get a Master's degree and then worked for two years. However, it became apparent to me that I had "hit my limit" in terms of what I could do with an M.A., so I decided to go back and get a Psy.D. I have never once regretted this decision. There are pros and cons to this decision, of course, so if you want to PM me and discuss this, please do.

I will also say that there is a lot of negativity on this board against the Psy.D., so take what you read with a grain of salt. I'm far along in my program and landed a stellar internship, but there are even times when I feel discouraged due to things said on this board.

I think it's important to clarify that in general, the negative reviews/comments made tend to be about specific types of programs--namely, free-standing professional schools with large cohorts, lower internship placement and EPPP passing rates, and large tuition costs. The negativity is generally not directed toward the Psy.D. degree itself. It just so happens that, unfortunately for many Psy.D. holders from reputable schools, the majority of the less-than-favorably viewed schools mentioned on this board award PsyD's.

 

[cara susanna]

I'm one of the people on here who think that if you have no interest in research, you should not pursue a doctoral degree.

 

[docma]

If you have a strong interest in the practice of clinical psychology, start by getting a B.A. level job doing something where you will work with a clinical population (juvenile hall, psych hospital, shelters, rehab setting) and find out 1) what you like about the work and 2) what are the educational paths folks working around you took to their jobs at higher levels. Then you will be prepared to look at the master's level degrees (or doctorate) that are in this interdisciplinary field. Getting an MSW or an MS in rehab psych may be a much more direct path to the work life you are seeking. And neither of those would rule out entering a doctoral level program later.

 

[wigflip]

So any advice or opinions would be great!

When researching masters level options, be aware that although social work (MSW) degrees lead to arguably the most flexible, employable masters level license, the training and work environment are likely to be different. Everybody pushed me towards the MSW because of the license, but for a variety of reasons related to curriculum and training, an MFT program would have been a better masters program option for me.

 

[titanz7]

I'm one of the people on here who think that if you have no interest in research, you should not pursue a doctoral degree.

Cara Susanna, could you give me more details on your opinion? I mean isn't Psy.D program intended to gear towards clinical/practicum part of psychology?

If you have a strong interest in the practice of clinical psychology, start by getting a B.A. level job doing something where you will work with a clinical population (juvenile hall, psych hospital, shelters, rehab setting) and find out 1) what you like about the work and 2) what are the educational paths folks working around you took to their jobs at higher levels. Then you will be prepared to look at the master's level degrees (or doctorate) that are in this interdisciplinary field. Getting an MSW or an MS in rehab psych may be a much more direct path to the work life you are seeking. And neither of those would rule out entering a doctoral level program later.

I did read about some stuff on the MSW forum here, but still unsure of the details. Also, I am currently an undergraduate in music therapy, which I will be working with variety of clinical populations anyways.

 

[cara susanna]

Well, the PsyD historically was developed to address the issue of poor clinical training and high research emphasis in Clinical PhD programs. Now that's not really an issue IMO because there are more balanced or even clinically-oriented PhD programs. Furthermore, the PsyD has started to turn into a "research is icky" degree, which is problematic because the practice and understanding of therapy and assessment relies on good research background. And the best way to understand research is through conducting it, IMO. Assessment especially relies heavily on research and statistical principles. If you want to just do therapy, it's easier and more cost-effective to get a Masters and then it doesn't fill the PsyD/PhD level with people who don't care about research, which many people believe brings down the value of our doctoral training.

 

[G Costanza]

Here's the bottom line. If you love psychology, go for it. If you want to read about a bunch of people complaining about the field, keep reading threads on this site. I've even found myself whining while I was on here. Unless you like people trying to burst your bubble, I'd would stay away from SDN.

 

[titanz7]

Well, the PsyD historically was developed to address the issue of poor clinical training and high research emphasis in Clinical PhD programs. Now that's not really an issue IMO because there are more balanced or even clinically-oriented PhD programs. Furthermore, the PsyD has started to turn into a "research is icky" degree, which is problematic because the practice and understanding of therapy and assessment relies on good research background. And the best way to understand research is through conducting it, IMO. Assessment especially relies heavily on research and statistical principles. If you want to just do therapy, it's easier and more cost-effective to get a Masters and then it doesn't fill the PsyD/PhD level with people who don't care about research, which many people believe brings down the value of our doctoral training.

I see your point. I'm wondering if Ph.D/Psy.D psychologists would have an edge on the clinical part of psychology compared to, say, a clinical social worker? I heard clinical social workers are just as qualified to do therapy as Ph.D/Psy.D but I don't see how two-year program can measure up to a four-year program? I mean does doctoral in psychology have like two years of research courses or does it actually have stronger clinical academic?

 

[cara susanna]

Of course most people on this forum, myself included, will think that PhD/PsyD offers better clinical training. Unfortunately, this isn't reflected in the market. You will have a better chance of getting hired for most therapy-only jobs if you have a Masters because it's cheaper for them.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Of course most people on this forum, myself included, will think that PhD/PsyD offers better clinical training. Unfortunately, this isn't reflected in the market. You will have a better chance of getting hired for most therapy-only jobs if you have a Masters because it's cheaper for them.

It also depends on what you're talking about when you say "clinical." Much research shows that therapists with a doctorate are no more effective than therapists with a masters. However, the game changes if you're talking about assessment or testing--only doctoral-level providers can engage in that type of clinical work.

If you look at the numbers, fully licensed therapists all have similar amounts of training--considering training in school and pre-licensure. The quality can certainly vary widely depending on the school and site of training, regardless of degree, but can definitely be comparable with a masters degree if you get the right training.

 

[wigflip]

I see your point. I'm wondering if Ph.D/Psy.D psychologists would have an edge on the clinical part of psychology compared to, say, a clinical social worker? I heard clinical social workers are just as qualified to do therapy as Ph.D/Psy.D but I don't see how two-year program can measure up to a four-year program? I mean does doctoral in psychology have like two years of research courses or does it actually have stronger clinical academic?

I would argue (and other might contest this) that most social work programs by their very nature can't give you the same level of clinical training as the majority of MFT programs (much less doctoral psych programs); MSW programs require students to split their time, at least during the first year, between clinical and policy classes. Social work is its own animal, with its own theoretical bent (often a skew towards psychodynamic approaches), curriculum, etc.

It sounds like you'd benefit from;

1. scanning job ads in your area to compare employability
2. read up on your state behavioral licensing boards' sites re: requirements
3. compare curricula at various educational programs' sites

Edit: as I think I suggested above, some people tend to conflate the training issue with the employability issue. I'd consider each of these separately first. E.g. perhaps you'll decide that the employability benefits of the MSW override any training/curricular concerns, and then go on to receive additional training at an institute after completing the MSW.

 

[titanz7]

Slightly off-topic question. If I don't get the chance to take courses in various psychology courses during my undergraduate years, is there a way to make up for those deficient courses to meet the prerequisites for graduate schools?

 

[Ettevi05]

I think you can, I heard some people take some courses that they missed in their undergrad in community colleges and just sending those transcripts...

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Much research shows that therapists with a doctorate are no more effective than therapists with a masters.

Do you have some citations for this? I'm aware of research that suggests that years of experience do not differentially impact outcome when clinicians are trained to competence in evidence based interventions, but am not aware of any studies directly comparing degree types.

Well, there are studies such as this meta-analysis (null finding regarding degree type):
Martin, D. J., Garske, J. P., & Davis, M. (2000). Relation of the therapeutic alliance with outcome and other variables: A meta-analytic review. Journal Of Consulting And Clinical Psychology, 68(3), 438-450. doi:10.1037/0022-006X.68.3.438

But largely, I must re-state. My bad. Not much research shows that therapists with a doctorate are more effective than therapists with a masters. Not many null findings are published, of course. And, of course, years of experience, as you said.

 

[wigflip]

Slightly off-topic question. If I don't get the chance to take courses in various psychology courses during my undergraduate years, is there a way to make up for those deficient courses to meet the prerequisites for graduate schools?

I'd check with the school regarding what they'd accept and from where.