Which is more competitive- primary care at harvard or complex specialty at unknown university?

[neighbor191]

I know this is a stupid question but I have some neighbors that are IMGs and they came to the United States and passed the USMLEs with flying colors. The mother is an anesthesiologist and her husband is a surgeon in Seattle.
Anyways- their daughter is relatively smart in biology, but she really struggled with the MCATs. Her brother did slightly better at the MCATs and had a decent GPA, but he missed the deadlines for the school he wanted. They both applied to various schools in the Carribbean. Their parents were super stressed that they wouldn't get a match, but finally they both were able to get in the residencies of their choice- most notably in primary care and internal medicine which they say are crap specialties. Well the results came out she got into anesthesiology and her brother eventually got in for surgery at program in Dallas. The big thing they say about the Caribbean is you have to do well on the steps (but I have also heard the Caribbean teaches people to the steps). Yes I've heard you can get into a competitive specialty if you don't choose a school that's not as good, but Dallas is not as bad as some places (like Missouri, the middle of no where Maine)

Meanwhile my sister got into a competitive school for her residency in anesthesiology (at Harvard) and she is pissed that people are saying medical school name doesn't matter. She firmly believe it does. She also says that some of the smartest doctors go into primary care and internal medicine.

So when it comes to match, which is more competitive, primary care at Harvard or anesthesiology at University of Florida? . And are my neighbors geniuses cause they were able to get into these competitive residencies even if they went to the Caribbean? I'm just sick of my neighbor bragging about how amazing her daughter is. I know her mother can't take the steps for her, but it does slightly help that her parents are doctors. They can give a little guidance.
FYI- my sister has said that recently people are saying general surgery is not very competitive.

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[SouthernSurgeon]

Huh?

 

[witzelsucht]

Listen, let me break this down for you. First of all, the fact that you think "primary care" is a residency in and of itself belies your ignorance. But more to the point, Missouri family medicine will be way easier to match than Eastern Maine Medical center, or something of the like. For anesthesiology, yeah Harvard anesthesiology will be harder to get than University of Florida anesthesiology. Will NYU anesthesiology be harder than UCLA anesthesia? Well the reality is it will be about the same competitiveness as Texas Surgery. Surgery in general depends a lot on location and specialty. So picture a surgery program in Virginia being about equal to primary care in Massachusetts, but not Harvard. So if you have a 50/50 shot at surgery outside of there, like Dallas, why not take anesthesia in Houston? Overall internal medicine from Caribbean will be easier than surgery, but about as proportional as Internal Medicine in Oregon is to Surgery in Idaho (lol). So you have to break it down by: Surgery at Harvard > Anesthesiology at Columbia > Surgery at UCLA > Primary care in Idaho, but not surgery in Idaho. Surgery in Idaho will be ~equal to anesthesiology IF there is fast track to cardio/peds fellowship but will overall be less competitive than vascular surgery in Detroit, but that's more due to location. Would I personally take anesthesia in Atlanta over surgery at Harvard? No, but let me assure you I am at a top 8 school with amazing step 1 score so those doors are open. Family medicine in Atlanta is another story, probably equal to internal medicine in Maine, but less than Dartmouth internal OR family medicine. So to compare family medicine in missouri to surgery in Harvard, but from a Carribean graduate? Obviously the family medicine will be easier to match, but not moreso than the difference between upstate New York (think Rochester) surgery is compared to like West Virginia anesthesiology, which at this point should be self explanatory.

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

If surgery isn't competitive, I wish someone would let the PDs know! I could use a few more interviews.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Listen, let me break this down for you. First of all, the fact that you think "primary care" is a residency in and of itself belies your ignorance. But more to the point, Missouri family medicine will be way easier to match than Eastern Maine Medical center, or something of the like. For anesthesiology, yeah Harvard anesthesiology will be harder to get than University of Florida anesthesiology. Will NYU anesthesiology be harder than UCLA anesthesia? Well the reality is it will be about the same competitiveness as Texas Surgery. Surgery in general depends a lot on location and specialty. So picture a surgery program in Virginia being about equal to primary care in Massachusetts, but not Harvard. So if you have a 50/50 shot at surgery outside of there, like Dallas, why not take anesthesia in Houston? Overall internal medicine from Caribbean will be easier than surgery, but about as proportional as Internal Medicine in Oregon is to Surgery in Idaho (lol). So you have to break it down by: Surgery at Harvard > Anesthesiology at Columbia > Surgery at UCLA > Primary care in Idaho, but not surgery in Idaho. Surgery in Idaho will be ~equal to anesthesiology IF there is fast track to cardio/peds fellowship but will overall be less competitive than vascular surgery in Detroit, but that's more due to location. Would I personally take anesthesia in Atlanta over surgery at Harvard? No, but let me assure you I am at a top 8 school with amazing step 1 score so those doors are open. Family medicine in Atlanta is another story, probably equal to internal medicine in Maine, but less than Dartmouth internal OR family medicine. So to compare family medicine in missouri to surgery in Harvard, but from a Carribean graduate? Obviously the family medicine will be easier to match, but not moreso than the difference between upstate New York (think Rochester) surgery is compared to like West Virginia anesthesiology, which at this point should be self explanatory.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[DermViser]

I know this is a stupid question but I have some neighbors that are IMGs and they came to the United States and passed the USMLEs with flying colors. The mother is an anesthesiologist and her husband is a surgeon in Seattle.
Anyways- their daughter is relatively smart in biology, but she really struggled with the MCATs. Her brother did slightly better at the MCATs and had a decent GPA, but he missed the deadlines for the school he wanted. They both applied to various schools in the Carribbean. Their parents were super stressed that they wouldn't get a match, but finally they both were able to get in the residencies of their choice- most notably in primary care and internal medicine which they say are crap specialties. Well the results came out she got into anesthesiology and her brother eventually got in for surgery at program in Dallas. The big thing they say about the Caribbean is you have to do well on the steps (but I have also heard the Caribbean teaches people to the steps). Yes I've heard you can get into a competitive specialty if you don't choose a school that's not as good, but Dallas is not as bad as some places (like Missouri, the middle of no where Maine)

Meanwhile my sister got into a competitive school for her residency in anesthesiology (at Harvard) and she is pissed that people are saying medical school name doesn't matter. She firmly believe it does. She also says that some of the smartest doctors go into primary care and internal medicine.

So when it comes to match, which is more competitive, primary care at Harvard or anesthesiology at University of Florida? . And are my neighbors geniuses cause they were able to get into these competitive residencies even if they went to the Caribbean? I'm just sick of my neighbor bragging about how amazing her daughter is. I know her mother can't take the steps for her, but it does slightly help that her parents are doctors. They can give a little guidance.
FYI- my sister has said that recently people are saying general surgery is not very competitive.

 

[Jamie561]

Listen, let me break this down for you. First of all, the fact that you think "primary care" is a residency in and of itself belies your ignorance. But more to the point, Missouri family medicine will be way easier to match than Eastern Maine Medical center, or something of the like. For anesthesiology, yeah Harvard anesthesiology will be harder to get than University of Florida anesthesiology. Will NYU anesthesiology be harder than UCLA anesthesia? Well the reality is it will be about the same competitiveness as Texas Surgery. Surgery in general depends a lot on location and specialty. So picture a surgery program in Virginia being about equal to primary care in Massachusetts, but not Harvard. So if you have a 50/50 shot at surgery outside of there, like Dallas, why not take anesthesia in Houston? Overall internal medicine from Caribbean will be easier than surgery, but about as proportional as Internal Medicine in Oregon is to Surgery in Idaho (lol). So you have to break it down by: Surgery at Harvard > Anesthesiology at Columbia > Surgery at UCLA > Primary care in Idaho, but not surgery in Idaho. Surgery in Idaho will be ~equal to anesthesiology IF there is fast track to cardio/peds fellowship but will overall be less competitive than vascular surgery in Detroit, but that's more due to location. Would I personally take anesthesia in Atlanta over surgery at Harvard? No, but let me assure you I am at a top 8 school with amazing step 1 score so those doors are open. Family medicine in Atlanta is another story, probably equal to internal medicine in Maine, but less than Dartmouth internal OR family medicine. So to compare family medicine in missouri to surgery in Harvard, but from a Carribean graduate? Obviously the family medicine will be easier to match, but not moreso than the difference between upstate New York (think Rochester) surgery is compared to like West Virginia anesthesiology, which at this point should be self explanatory.

Good post but FYI- my uncle has said that recently people are saying vascular surgery in Detroit is not very competitive.

 

[mimelim]

Good post but FYI- my uncle has said that recently people are saying vascular surgery in Detroit is not very competitive.

As far as I know there are no Vascular surgery residencies in Detroit.

 

[evilbooyaa]

As far as I know there are no Vascular surgery residencies in Detroit.

Possibly means a vascular fellowship. IIRC, fellowship for vascular surgery is not one of the super competitive ones after general surgery. Mimelim can likely confirm/deny this.

 

[joker2400]

As far as I know there are no Vascular surgery residencies in Detroit.

3 fellowships in the metro area, but you are correct no integrated positions

 

[mimelim]

Possibly means a vascular fellowship. IIRC, fellowship for vascular surgery is not one of the super competitive ones after general surgery. Mimelim can likely confirm/deny this.

3 fellowships in the metro area, but you are correct no integrated positions

The thread/conversation was about residencies. Comparing fellowships to residencies in terms of competitiveness is pretty apples and oranges.

And you are correct evilbooyaa. Vascular fellowships tend not to be super competitive compared to say Peds, CRS, Surg Onc or Plastics.

 

[W19]

The thread/conversation was about residencies. Comparing fellowships to residencies in terms of competitiveness is pretty apples and oranges.

And you are correct evilbooyaa. Vascular fellowships tend not to be super competitive compared to say Peds, CRS, Surg Onc or Plastics.

What is the difference in training in doing a residency in vascular surgery as opposed to a fellowship? How many years are both of them?

 

[mimelim]

What is the difference in training in doing a residency in vascular surgery as opposed to a fellowship? How many years are both of them?

Residency
5 years of clinical education
0-2 years of research
More overall exposure to Vascular surgery 3+ years of dedicated Vascular time, plus call/conferences/VSITE for 5 years instead of 2
Boarded in only Vascular Surgery

Fellowship
5 years of clinical education as a general surgery resident
2 years of clinical education as a vascular surgery fellow
0-2 years of research (as a general surgery resident)
More open operating time
Less endovascular time
Boarded in General Surgery and Vascular Surgery

Overall, 5-7 years for Integrated, 7-9 for Traditional Fellowship.

 

[Jamie561]

As far as I know there are no Vascular surgery residencies in Detroit.

I am aware of this. I was trying to piggyback off of witzelsucht's amazing reply.