Which is more doable as a DO: Ortho residency or GS+Pediatric Surgery Fellowship?

[frodohobo]

I'm interested in either ortho or ultimately pediatric surgery (GS). I know both are pretty hard to do as a DO, but which path is more realistic?

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[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm interested in either ortho or ultimately pediatric surgery (GS). I know both are pretty hard to do as a DO, but which path is more realistic?

I'd say pediatric surgery actually.

The barrier to getting a general surgery vs an ortho residency is obviously higher. But the barrier to getting a pediatric surgery fellowship is incredibly high, and very academically geared.

More importantly...they are very different fields. What is the basis of your interests?

 

[frodohobo]

Well I know I want to do surgery and it basically narrows down to peds (my personality) or ortho (only other surgical specialty I would consider doing). So it seems that to have a realistic shot at a peds fellowship is to match into an MD academic institution. What if I were to match to a DO or a community hospital?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Well I know I want to do surgery and it basically narrows down to peds (my personality) or ortho (only other surgical specialty I would consider doing). So it seems that to have a realistic shot at a peds fellowship is to match into an MD academic institution. What if I were to match to a DO or a community hospital?

DO residency - essentially nil.
Community program - major uphill battle.

The competitive candidates do 2 years of productive research, usually with a funded pediatric surgeon. They most importantly need support in the form of letters and phone calls from an academically connected mentor. Some applicants from community programs will leave for two years to go to somewhere like CHOP or Boston Children's to try and get research experience. I even know some who essentially gave up their residency spot to do this (i.e. the program director told them if they left to do two years of research, he couldn't guarantee they would be able to come back afterwards).

Even still, there are about 200 applicants for 40 slots. And the vast majority of these applicants will have mile long resumes, advocacy from department chairs, and come from the top institutions.

Often times when people don't match, they will enter into 1-3 years of indentured servitude (peds-ICU fellowships, unpaid research positions, etc) while trying to build connections and re-apply.

 

[DrEnderW]

It depends what you're talking about for ortho. ACGME ortho is not realistic and that is probably what southernIM was referring too.

While AOA ortho is very competitive, there are ~100 spots and the match rate is slightly less but comparable to what it is for MDs applying ACGME ortho. Keep in mind these programs will be ACGME accredited by the time you graduate as well.

You got a great answer for the GS --> peds route. You'd want to be shooting for a university hospital (mid/lower tier) and be routinely publishing. This is harder as a DO medical student (and definitely as a resident at a community program) but it is possible.

 

[DarkHorizon]

DO ortho would be a lòt easier to match. In fact ortho in general would be easier. I say this as an ortho resident. Peds surgery has very few spots and a lot of candidates. I have seen a couple of phenomenal MDs struggle to get in. I would assume it would be a pipe dream as a DO coming from an AOA program.

 

[frodohobo]

My program is open to letting me in the DO/PhD program and I'm considering it if it would open doors to academic institutions. Would this be worth it for my interests?

 

[DopaDO]

My program is open to letting me in the DO/PhD program and I'm considering it if it would open doors to academic institutions. Would this be worth it for my interests?

Don't do a PhD to strengthen your application. A PhD is not an easy thing to get. It's only worth it if you truly love research and are passionate about your field of study.

 

[SurgeDO]

pediatric ortho...those guys do some cool stuff.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

pediatric ortho...those guys do some cool stuff.

Yes, yes we do.

For what it's worth, I did a DO residency and am now at Wash U for peds ortho fellowship.

 

[mct2762]

Also a DO student interested in peds surgery. I have researched the process ad nauseum, and know it will be an uphill battle, but do you guys have any advice as to things I can start doing now (besides grades and setting myself up to do well on boards)?

 

[JimmyB123]

Yes, yes we do.

For what it's worth, I did a DO residency and am now at Wash U for peds ortho fellowship.

Are all acgme fellowships okay with an aoa residency?

 

[AlteredScale]

Are all acgme fellowships okay with an aoa residency?

Certainly not ALL of them. But the merger has changed that.

 

[cylondoctor]

take it for what its worth cuz i may have read it on some other thread here but there hasn't been a d.o. accepted into general peds fellowship. that said, it is difficult like many have said before.

 

[AlteredScale]

take it for what its worth cuz i may have read it on some other thread here but there hasn't been a d.o. accepted into general peds fellowship. that said, it is difficult like many have said before.

There's a user a few posts above who did an AOA ortho residency and is now doing a ped fellowship at WashU? Is that what you mean?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I think there has been only one DO (ever?) to be accepted to a pediatric surgery fellowship (after general surgery). This should be a clear indication that it's highly unlikely that a DO is going to match ped surgery any time in the near future.

Getting accepted into an ACGME ortho is nearly impossible as well. If my memory serves me correctly, less than a handful of DOs were successful in securing ACGME ortho spots last year. That's said, there are ~110 AOA ortho surgery, and matching one of these is going to be significantly easier.

 

[cylondoctor]

There's a user a few posts above who did an AOA ortho residency and is now doing a ped fellowship at WashU? Is that what you mean?

was referring to general surgery + peds surgery ... i stand corrected if IbnAlnafis says there has been 1, but significantly harder for a d.o.
- part of it is because peds surgery is such a small group of ppl that are still old-school.
My guess is for these type of specialties/subspecialties you need lots of research, 260+, that department letter ... etc.

 

[AlteredScale]

was referring to general surgery + peds surgery ... i stand corrected if IbnAlnafis says there has been 1, but significantly harder for a d.o.
- part of it is because peds surgery is such a small group of ppl that are still old-school.
My guess is for these type of specialties/subspecialties you need lots of research, 260+, that department letter ... etc.

Ah I see. That totally makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

was referring to general surgery + peds surgery ... i stand corrected if IbnAlnafis says there has been 1, but significantly harder for a d.o.
- part of it is because peds surgery is such a small group of ppl that are still old-school.
My guess is for these type of specialties/subspecialties you need lots of research, 260+, that department letter ... etc.

http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/service/s/surgery/team/

 

[cliquesh]

I personally wouldn't aim for acgme ortho or pediatric surgery; it's just not going to happen without luck.

I would aim for AOA ortho or acgme general surgery followed by something less competitive.