... And do the scores seem to matter for Pain applicants? I know there is no spot in ERAS to enter ITE, but I'm wondering which programs have been known to ask for ITE scores prior to sending out interview offers.
Which programs ask for ITE scores?
- Thread starter WashMe
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Every one of them will ask for ITE scores and yes it is important.
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Just like most residency programs have certain cut offs for USMLE scores, most fellowships have certain cut offs for ITE scores.
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Having just gone through the process, I can tell you that there's so much flux at many fellowships that we on the outside can never be sure. One year Director X will prefer anesthesiologists with ITE scores above Z%. The next year new Director Y will favor multiple specialties with no cut-offs. One year a program is down-sizing. Two years later it's moved into a new pain center. The big name places have some historical trends, but even there you see drastic change. You just can't predict these things.
Put together the best application you can and ace the interviews. Assume ITE scores matter. Assume USMLE scores count. Assume you need research. That's what we had to do.
Put together the best application you can and ace the interviews. Assume ITE scores matter. Assume USMLE scores count. Assume you need research. That's what we had to do.
So it sounds like ITE may or may not help (or hurt) depending on the program...
Is not having pain-specific research a major negative, for an applicant that has unrelated research and publications (i.e. proving I can do it)? It's hard to get pain research at some places.
Is not having pain-specific research a major negative, for an applicant that has unrelated research and publications (i.e. proving I can do it)? It's hard to get pain research at some places.
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Every program I interviewed with looked at my USMLE scores and paid special attention to my ITE scores. If you have sub-par ITE's/USMLE's most of the elite programs won't even interview you unless you have a good backstory.
In fact, at least 4 programs IIRC had my USMLE scores and ITE scores pasted to a cover letter on top of my sheath of documents- meaning it is the first thing that all of your interviewers look at and muse about as they flip through your packet in < 10 minutes.
Don't kid yourself about scores not counting. Try to get involved in at least one research project, get a poster or abstract or something you can talk about. Pain is extremely competitive (almost 30% US grads unmatched) and it gets harder every year.
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dont forget that ITEs are used to help determine which individuals will have difficulty passing their primary board certifications.
and if you cant pass that, you cant get pain certification (or be given greater independence - ie less direct supervision - towards the end of fellowship).
and if you cant pass that, you cant get pain certification (or be given greater independence - ie less direct supervision - towards the end of fellowship).
ITE's can only hurt you, they don't really help all that much when compared to more important factors such as which residency you are from, letters of recommendation, research, pain-related projects, interview, etc.
If you had horrible scores, Ducttape is right in that they may wonder if you will have trouble passing pain boards as well. It is really more of a marker or a red flag to determine if there is something more serious to investigate. Having excellent scores is not going to help one bit if you have weak letters of rec or if you're a horrible interviewee. Just make sure you have at least average/good scores.
If you had horrible scores, Ducttape is right in that they may wonder if you will have trouble passing pain boards as well. It is really more of a marker or a red flag to determine if there is something more serious to investigate. Having excellent scores is not going to help one bit if you have weak letters of rec or if you're a horrible interviewee. Just make sure you have at least average/good scores.
My ITE scores and USMLE are fine, probably one of the stronger parts of my resume. I was just wondering if I'd be asked for my ITE at some point. I did well as a CA-1 but I'm concerned about keeping up my performance as a CA-2. It sounds like some of you think they only have "cutoff" scores, which I think I would meet. I think my letters will be good but obviously I've never seen them. The toughest part is research; I've had some experience, but my in-house pain department is not academically productive (although clinically strong) and sometimes difficult to work with just because of physical distance from the hospital.
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What is considered a decent score for the ITE? What's a typical cutoff?
Also wondering about this!
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I went on 9 interviews all across the country, every one asked for both ITE and USMLE scores. The program I matched at didn't have a cutoff score set in stone, but they didn't interview anyone with less than a 38 on the ITE. They just had that many good applicants I guess. The program director has said they look for 40+ on most recent ITE and like to see people who were chief residents and held other leadership roles. Of my friends that have gone into pain, I know the average board scores were in the 230s and ITEs were in the 40s. Not saying that's what's required, just that with those scores none of the people I know seemed to have trouble getting a spot. I agree that pain is competitive; I have seen it from our programs point of view recruiting. 60-70 applicants per spot at a lot of programs, and very heavily geared to anesthesia at many programs, with PMR a distant second so it seems.
