Like the title suggests: Which POD school has the best surgical rotation + residency placement?
Which school has the best surgical rotation + residency placement?
- Thread starter YeastyMan
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There is no answer to this question.
You mind explain why you think so?
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Information such as attrition, board pass rates, and residency placement data aren't released and when they are they are often suspect, an incomplete picture, or unofficial word of mouth. DMU releases a lot of this information and I've posted some links at the bottom for further reading. I have faith in DMU's attempt at transparency, but until all the schools rigorously define how these numbers are determined I would take anything you hear from any school with a grain of salt. For example - if a student requires an extra year to graduate, but does graduate and match I would think that should be noted in some manner. I'm also of the opinion that the match rate should be evaluated with the attrition rate in mind - a 100% match rate is a wonderful thing, but is less admirable in light of high attrition.
If you head over to the Allopathic/DO forum you'll see people ooo-ing and awe-ing over specialty matches for each school. I've never seen anyone attempt to "rate" the matches for any podiatry school. Obviously there's a few threads about programs people think are amazing, and I suppose if you wanted to be uncharitable you could attempt to attribute unkind thoughts to the programs that scramble. I don't know that they necessarily deserve it- I suspect it is simply that there's a lot of east coast residency programs and most of us don't want to live in New York (if we wanted to we'd have gone to NYCPM from the get go).
One thing you have to keep in mind is that we are still in uncharted waters to some degree because of the recent residency shortage. I haven't looked back through the old posts in this forum in a long time, but I don't think these are questions people were worrying about in the past because there wasn't really so much to worry about. There were more residencies than graduates. For clarification - I'm referring to the recent past and not the 80s (and perhaps early 90s).
On the subject of DMU - we haven't released this years match rate though it appears to be built into the average rate of the last few years (reported as 95.5% matching with an 86.5% graduate rate [from the attrition link I'd say the 2009 starting year didn't help that number]). When you read the section about "matching into their choice" I think that probably needs to be tempered with "that they interviewed at" or something like that. Consider a student who visited a number of top notch programs, but was only offered interviews at some of them. If he was denied an opportunity to clerk somewhere or wasn't even offered an interview then his "1st choice" can only be the one's that were made available to him. I say this under the assumption that this statistic is based on asking students how they matched compared to their submitted match list. If some other method was used then so be it.
http://www.dmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Attrition.pdf
http://www.dmu.edu/cpms/residencies/
http://www.dmu.edu/cpms/program-outcomes/
On the subject of surgical rotation - what you are asking and what you mean are probably two different things. All the schools are going to offer class-based surgery courses and potentially some hands on cadaveric practice and instruction. As far as getting to shadow or participate in surgery - you'll likely see some during your 3rd year through the connections your school has and I suppose (but don't know) even more depending on the residencies you visit for your clerkships. I'm not in a position to comment on the opportunities to shadow surgery that my school has because I haven't done it, but I suppose you are free to read the residency review thread to try and determine what could be in store for you during 4th year. Perhaps some of the residents will share their experiences on how involved they allow students they trust to be if you ask nicely.
Surgery and all the things you are currently worshiping on high will all come in due time. My perspective may change at the end of this year or next year, but here's what I'm sure of right now. 1st year is "miserable" and part of second year is too. You need a learning environment that allows you to get through it in whatever manner works for you. There won't be any "advanced" (whatever that means) surgeries if you don't pass physiology. One of my reasons for selecting Des Moines was the town itself - it most resembled the life I had lived up to this point - a life I was quite comfortable with. I don't think I could have survived living in New York or Philadelphia - I hate urban areas. I spent the majority of 1st year studying from the comfort of my apartment watching the snow fall down outside. What I'm getting at is - you underestimate the importance of happiness and finding the right fit for you. You are likely to spend as many hours in your apartment as you are at school. Last thought - I also picked DMU because I believed it offered freedom during 4th year (I don't want to spend it in Des Moines). Haven't done it yet - so I'll let you know when I find out.
If you head over to the Allopathic/DO forum you'll see people ooo-ing and awe-ing over specialty matches for each school. I've never seen anyone attempt to "rate" the matches for any podiatry school. Obviously there's a few threads about programs people think are amazing, and I suppose if you wanted to be uncharitable you could attempt to attribute unkind thoughts to the programs that scramble. I don't know that they necessarily deserve it- I suspect it is simply that there's a lot of east coast residency programs and most of us don't want to live in New York (if we wanted to we'd have gone to NYCPM from the get go).
One thing you have to keep in mind is that we are still in uncharted waters to some degree because of the recent residency shortage. I haven't looked back through the old posts in this forum in a long time, but I don't think these are questions people were worrying about in the past because there wasn't really so much to worry about. There were more residencies than graduates. For clarification - I'm referring to the recent past and not the 80s (and perhaps early 90s).
On the subject of DMU - we haven't released this years match rate though it appears to be built into the average rate of the last few years (reported as 95.5% matching with an 86.5% graduate rate [from the attrition link I'd say the 2009 starting year didn't help that number]). When you read the section about "matching into their choice" I think that probably needs to be tempered with "that they interviewed at" or something like that. Consider a student who visited a number of top notch programs, but was only offered interviews at some of them. If he was denied an opportunity to clerk somewhere or wasn't even offered an interview then his "1st choice" can only be the one's that were made available to him. I say this under the assumption that this statistic is based on asking students how they matched compared to their submitted match list. If some other method was used then so be it.
http://www.dmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Attrition.pdf
http://www.dmu.edu/cpms/residencies/
http://www.dmu.edu/cpms/program-outcomes/
On the subject of surgical rotation - what you are asking and what you mean are probably two different things. All the schools are going to offer class-based surgery courses and potentially some hands on cadaveric practice and instruction. As far as getting to shadow or participate in surgery - you'll likely see some during your 3rd year through the connections your school has and I suppose (but don't know) even more depending on the residencies you visit for your clerkships. I'm not in a position to comment on the opportunities to shadow surgery that my school has because I haven't done it, but I suppose you are free to read the residency review thread to try and determine what could be in store for you during 4th year. Perhaps some of the residents will share their experiences on how involved they allow students they trust to be if you ask nicely.
Surgery and all the things you are currently worshiping on high will all come in due time. My perspective may change at the end of this year or next year, but here's what I'm sure of right now. 1st year is "miserable" and part of second year is too. You need a learning environment that allows you to get through it in whatever manner works for you. There won't be any "advanced" (whatever that means) surgeries if you don't pass physiology. One of my reasons for selecting Des Moines was the town itself - it most resembled the life I had lived up to this point - a life I was quite comfortable with. I don't think I could have survived living in New York or Philadelphia - I hate urban areas. I spent the majority of 1st year studying from the comfort of my apartment watching the snow fall down outside. What I'm getting at is - you underestimate the importance of happiness and finding the right fit for you. You are likely to spend as many hours in your apartment as you are at school. Last thought - I also picked DMU because I believed it offered freedom during 4th year (I don't want to spend it in Des Moines). Haven't done it yet - so I'll let you know when I find out.
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Student involvement ranges from simple observation to doing smaller cases with an attending. Obviously depends on how much I trust the student, has nothing to do with which school they came from. We've had good and bad students from just about every school (don't get that many from the California schools).
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As you advance through education, the more your success depends on how motivated you are. An example is that I hear Barry has the worst reputation among the podiatry schools, but Dr John Steinberg went to Barry. He is one of the leaders in diabetic limb salvage, works at Georgetown, and is director of a research fellowship which has trained many physicians. Unless you have attended every school, how can one fairly rate them among each other? An idiot isn't going anywhere no matter what school he graduated from. On the contrary, hard-working motivated individual isn't going to be held back by a "bad" school. All schools have their own pros and cons, it is up to you to maximize the resources available to you.
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I've seen this idea pretty prominent in podiatry schools. The top 5 in every class from every school will not look that different intelligence and ability wise school from school. It's the bottom quarter where you get the biggest differentials (i.e. Barry vs. Scholl/DMU). It's one of those things where having only 9 professional schools gets kind of weird, because no matter how you cut it there are 9 valedictorians, and a #1 at any school will beat a #4 at a particular school? If that makes sense. Biggest thing is to go to a school which prepares you for success in the future, and which aligns with your medical interests and professional desires, then kick ass and do extremely well.
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