Which specialties lead to a 275k+ salary?

[Dharma]

There are no guarantees in life, but I'd be willing to bet that in ten years the average income for a neurosurgeon or orthopedist will still be higher than the average FP income.

Can't disagree with that. And they'll still be struggling to find that quality time with their families too

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[postbacpremed87]

Can't disagree with that. And they'll still be struggling to find that quality time with their families too

Yeah! I am a non-trad who just wants a job and to move off into the sunset. Give me my 200k a year job/40 hr a week (SDN poverty level) with no debt and I will go off quietly into the night.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Are pp jobs difficult to land? Or are they pretty much out there for those who want to go that route?

 

[mk04447]

Settle down Beavis. No need to get emotional.

I've been around the block a few times. Nontrad pushing 40, wife, kids, house... so tell me again about that lab job.

Completely disagree with your sentiments besides the notion that we have job security. BTW I do know docs (friends) struggling to pay the bills with loans crawling out the backside. Granted, they'll climb out of the hole soon but it's a grind (and not one they expected when they started the journey).

We will have to agree to disagree. Don't mind me if I don't get choked up if someone can't figure out how to pay their bills with income based loan repayment and an annual income at least 4x greater than the average; your friends are simply whining. What did they expect the vig and interest to be on a quarter or a half million dollars? Not expected, they saw what they wanted to see or they were simply wet behind the ears. Drop me a line when you hit 40, we'll compare notes.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Are pp jobs difficult to land? Or are they pretty much out there for those who want to go that route?

What is financial aid exactly? Is that the "free" money the school gives you...?

You need to do a lot more research before starting medical school, because I am starting to think you might have no idea what you are getting into.

 

[yanks26dmb]

You need to do a lot more research before starting medical school, because I am starting to think you might have no idea what you are getting into.

Ive never used financial aid and I have no idea how hiring in the medical field works....I'm a little preoccupied with trying to get ready for ms1 at the moment, but I'm sure I'll find out the hiring details in due course. Appreciate your concern though.

 

[jw3600]

We will have to agree to disagree. Don't mind me if I don't get choked up if someone can't figure out how to pay their bills with income based loan repayment and an annual income at least 4x greater than the average; your friends are simply whining. What did they expect the vig and interest to be on a quarter or a half million dollars? Not expected, they saw what they wanted to see or they were simply wet behind the ears. Drop me a line when you hit 40, we'll compare notes.

I foresee you having a long and prosperous stay on SDN. I, for one, am excited.

 

[W19]

Settle down Beavis. No need to get emotional.

I've been around the block a few times. Nontrad pushing 40, wife, kids, house... so tell me again about that lab job.

Completely disagree with your sentiments besides the notion that we have job security. BTW I do know docs (friends) struggling to pay the bills with loans crawling out the backside. Granted, they'll climb out of the hole soon but it's a grind (and not one they expected when they started the journey).

Most jobs out there suck and pay ****. If a full time employed doc has trouble paying his/her bills, I don't think it's because of the income. It's probably because that doc bite more than he/she can chew... Someone can pay a 3k/month student loan with a 150k/year salary without struggling financially... The problem with some docs and I have seen that in the 7 years I worked as a nurse is that they have 5,000 sqft home, kids go to 12-15k/year private school; they also drive 60-70k car etc... It's fine to live large like that if you are a neuro/ortho surgeon, but if you are a FM doc making 150k/year, you probably will struggle financially if you think having that M.D. /D.O. means you can afford most things...

 

[W19]

Here is an example of how out of touch some people in SDN can be:

Hello, so I was wondering if I could get some opinions on how likely it is to live a comfortable life as a physician while paying back massive amount of student loans. Post residency I will be paying back approx $4-5k/month in loans. My spouse (also a physician) will have no student loans. Our combined monthly income pre-tax will be between $40-50k/month. We want to live in a nice home preferably in a Philly suburb and have a comfortable lifestyle. We want to know if it will be possible to raise 1-3 kids, save for retirement, and do all those other "life things" that we've been putting on hold through school and training. I would really appreciate some legit advice and guidance. Thanks!

 

[Dharma]

We will have to agree to disagree. Don't mind me if I don't get choked up if someone can't figure out how to pay their bills with income based loan repayment and an annual income at least 4x greater than the average; your friends are simply whining. What did they expect the vig and interest to be on a quarter or a half million dollars? Not expected, they saw what they wanted to see or they were simply wet behind the ears. Drop me a line when you hit 40, we'll compare notes.

Most jobs out there suck and pay ****. If a full time employed doc has trouble paying his/her bills, I don't think it's because of the income. It's probably because that doc bite more than he/she can chew... Someone can pay a 3k/month student loan with a 150k/year salary without struggling financially... The problem with some docs and I have seen that in the 7 years I worked as a nurse is that they have 5,000 sqft home, kids go to 12-15k/year private school; they also drive 60-70k car etc... It's fine to live large like that if you are a neuro/ortho surgeon, but if you are a FM doc making 150k/year, you probably will struggle financially if you think having that MD means you can afford most things...

I hear yas. I know folks who walked out w/ that 250K+ in debt, working in primary care, have little (and big) mouths to feed and bills to flip... those first few years can be tight especially when really taking a stab at paying off that debt. It's not suffering, but it's hard work.

Our plan is to keep on living how we live now and that debt should be paid off in due time. We're frugal minded, easily-pleased folk... so not worried about what the future holds. I honestly plan on stacking those chips in the long run.

 

[yanks26dmb]

To put things in perspective, I used a salary calculator to look at a 200k salary...

Living in California, a HIGH tax state, 200k equals 10,640 net each month.

Let's do some math...

10640...

- 2750 loans
- 2800 rent/house payment
- 2500 savings
- 1600 car payment/bills/groceries

=a grand left over each month to have fun with...

This doesn't include 401k or any other pre tax deductions which would increase your monthly net. Live in a lower tax state? Your monthly income can go up quite a bit.

This is how you live (nicely I may add) on a 200k year salary...anyone who's struggling at this level is living beyond their means, plain and simple.

Edit: live in a state like Nevada or delaware and your monthly take home is 12k, pre deductions.

 

[The Creeper]

Dude chill out. People are allowed to care about $

Not saying that because it is what ADCOMs want to hear. I say it because if you pick medicine as a career based on making money, you will hate life. I would think it is pretty much common understood knowledge that you will make money in medicine. Is it because we deserve it because we are smarter? Or because you will work many hard hours to earn it. There are plenty other jobs that pay just as much, if not more. I think focusing on "how much money will I make in "x" residency versus "y" residency is worthless. You will make money. It is exponentially more important that the career/specialty fits you or the money wont matter.

 

[W19]

Not saying that because it is what ADCOMs want to hear. I say it because if you pick medicine as a career based on making money, you will hate life. I would think it is pretty much common understood knowledge that you will make money in medicine. Is it because we deserve it because we are smarter? Or because you will work many hard hours to earn it. There are plenty other jobs that pay just as much, if not more. I think focusing on "how much money will I make in "x" residency versus "y" residency is worthless. You will make money. It is exponentially more important that the career/specialty fits you or the money wont matter.

Really!

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2012/0115-one-percent-occupations/index.html

 

[yanks26dmb]

Not saying that because it is what ADCOMs want to hear. I say it because if you pick medicine as a career based on making money, you will hate life. I would think it is pretty much common understood knowledge that you will make money in medicine. Is it because we deserve it because we are smarter? Or because you will work many hard hours to earn it. There are plenty other jobs that pay just as much, if not more. I think focusing on "how much money will I make in "x" residency versus "y" residency is worthless. You will make money. It is exponentially more important that the career/specialty fits you or the money wont matter.

Plenty of people work jobs that they hate. I think the ones going into medicine with the rose colored glasses and wanting to save the world are even more at risk to "hate life". Approach it like any other job and I'd think you'd come out alright.

Sure there are other jobs that pay as much or more...but those big finance jobs require a top 10 mba and some luck getting hired....those upper management jobs at fortune 500s require a decade or more in the trenches and a little luck...they also come with iffy job security. Their hours aren't a whole lot better, and in some cases, a whole lot worse.

Becoming a doctor is perhaps the most assured path to a 250-300k salary AND immense job security. Plus, you're not a fking suit your whole life.

 

[DubVille]

Duh. Obamacare is a prelude to a one payer system. I objected to the tone of his post. Clearly being employed has trade offs, but your bosses aren't sticking it to you; this is a mindset recently flourishing in younger Americans. There is a lot of value in not having to worry about overhead, insurance, inventory, staffing, etc.

P.S. only socialists call it the Affordable Care Act.

No, in an employed situation as a physician, your bosses (suits with no clinical experience, CEO of hospital, highly ranked nurses in admin, etc) are skimming off the top of your billing. There is nothing liberal about this, just factual. In exchange you get a higher starting salary and benefits compared to PP.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

To put things in perspective, I used a salary calculator to look at a 200k salary...

Living in California, a HIGH tax state, 200k equals 10,640 net each month.

Let's do some math...

10640...

- 2750 loans
- 2800 rent/house payment
- 2500 savings
- 1600 car payment/bills/groceries

=a grand left over each month to have fun with...

This doesn't include 401k or any other pre tax deductions which would increase your monthly net. Live in a lower tax state? Your monthly income can go up quite a bit.

This is how you live (nicely I may add) on a 200k year salary...anyone who's struggling at this level is living beyond their means, plain and simple.

Edit: live in a state like Nevada or delaware and your monthly take home is 12k, pre deductions.

And making that payment on your loans will take you 10 years to pay off your debt. That puts you at the minimum age of 39, living single in a rental apartment with no children.
If you want to talk hypothetical fantasy numbers, go back to the pre med forum.

 

[yanks26dmb]

And making that payment on your loans will take you 10 years to pay off your debt. That puts you at the minimum age of 39, living single in a rental apartment with no children.
If you want to talk hypothetical fantasy numbers, go back to the pre med forum.

Living single? In an apartment? No children? ...because 8k after loan payment each month isn't enough?

I don't know how you are making those assumptions, nor am I going to try to figure it out.

We can leave it at that.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Living single? In an apartment? No children? ...because 8k after loan payment each month isn't enough?

I don't know how you are making those assumptions, nor am I going to try to figure it out.

We can leave it at that.

Coming from someone who just asked what financial aid is, and took 7 years "traveling the world", "owning a tech company".... It makes a lot of sense why you dont see how 350,000 of debt is hard to crawl out of.

You are what the Mighty Ducks would call a cake eater.

 

[surfguy84]

And making that payment on your loans will take you 10 years to pay off your debt. That puts you at the minimum age of 39, living single in a rental apartment with no children.
If you want to talk hypothetical fantasy numbers, go back to the pre med forum.

I don't know what kind of upbringing you had, but my dad never brought in anything close to that 7 or 8k a month after loan payment.... and guess what? We lived in a decent house, in a decent neighborhood, were happy, and here's the kicker....my mom and brother lived with us too. Can you imagine that?

A house...kids...and a woman!

Unbelievable I know.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Coming from someone who just asked what financial aid is, and took 7 years "traveling the world", "owning a tech company".... It makes a lot of sense why you dont see how 350,000 of debt is hard to crawl out of.

You are what the Mighty Ducks would call a cake eater.

Well done - that mighty duck line got a legitimate lol.

In any event, I'm not trying to fight with you...you think living within the budget I laid out is hard, and I don't. Agree to disagree. Let's chill out now.

 

[burritowithgreensauce]

I feel like there's often disagreement about this but maybe this thread can help put it into perspective.

We all know cardiologists, neurosurg, ent, and ortho will make the really big bucks...but what else is out there where 275k plus is easily doable WITHOUT being in private practice.

Any fields where picking up extra hours is easy to supplement a lower salary that'll bump you up?

i would tell you, but then i would have to gun you down because i just made it that much more competitive. pew pew. Want the truth? medicine is quickly drying up. The $$$/hour will continously go down as work demands will continually go up. O and don't forget taxes. Because you know, everyone having an epic amount of YOLO/FOMO on instsagram will eventually start to vote and you will become a prime target of someone who makes too much money.

my advice? if you haven't started med school gtfo while you can. If you're already in it? cheers, have a beer ... or whatever prescription drug you can fool your doctor into prescribing you.

 

[mk04447]

Want the truth? medicine is quickly drying up. The $$$/hour will continously go down as work demands will continually go up.

Probably true, but libs know how to exploit you. The new new deal, loan forgiveness. You're still theirs.

 

[Apoplexy__]

Why did this thread devolve into a political sh*tposting fest?

 

[FutureDO2016]

Nowadays can a family med doctor even make 250K+ working and living in suburban or urban areas? And would he have to own that private practice or work in a hospital? Also how many hours would be needed to make such?

I've always though most family med docs make around $150K?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Nowadays can a family med doctor even make 250K+ working and living in suburban or urban areas? And would he have to own that private practice or work in a hospital? Also how many hours would be needed to make such?

I've always though most family med docs make around $150K?

150K is extremely low. That's like being paid $75/hr assuming you are working only 40hrs/week. Remember, 150K nowadays isn't the same 150K in 2005 (~123k) and won't be the same 150K in 2025 (~90k). Don't underestimate the impact of inflation.

Unless you are in Academia, your bare minimum should be 200k. That's only my opinion though.

 

[JustaDO]

Sounds like you are contemplating a career in medicine for the wrong reasons.


Cool story bro.

True cool story, trying to have a cool man reply, then quoting yourself in the very next post.

 

[JustaDO]

To OP, instead of worrying what makes 275k +, my advice: worry about making grades to make a 275k+ salary.

There is a literally a cycle in medicine that repeats:

1. Premed - "I wonder what makes 275k +, I'm gonna be a neurovascular surgeon or do that dermatology thing, but I don't care about my current C in Biology I as the "upward trend is sure to come!"
2. Incoming MS-1 - "I wonder what makes 275 k +, though I don't know if I have the grades nor ability to land into a field that starts off like that comfortably, but I got a secret, unlike everyone else, I'll crush the boards!"

 

[JustaDO]

Ive never used financial aid and I have no idea how hiring in the medical field works....I'm a little preoccupied with trying to get ready for ms1 at the moment, but I'm sure I'll find out the hiring details in due course. Appreciate your concern though.

What is in the processes for one to be preoccupied with getting ready for MS1? All I know is the summer before, I just traveled, so I find it interesting a simple google search may be beyond the scope of your current predicament.

Medical school is going to be real fun for you.

 

[JustaDO]

I don't know what kind of upbringing you had, but my dad never brought in anything close to that 7 or 8k a month after loan payment.... and guess what? We lived in a decent house, in a decent neighborhood, were happy, and here's the kicker....my mom and brother lived with us too. Can you imagine that?

A house...kids...and a woman!

Unbelievable I know.

Unbelievable that everything was completely taken out of context. Do you live in California? Do your parents owe 200-300k of non-dischargeable education loans on top of mortgages, expenses?

Unbelievable I know.

 

[DO3]

I feel like there's often disagreement about this but maybe this thread can help put it into perspective.

We all know cardiologists, neurosurg, ent, and ortho will make the really big bucks...but what else is out there where 275k plus is easily doable WITHOUT being in private practice.

Any fields where picking up extra hours is easy to supplement a lower salary that'll bump you up?

Who cares? If you go into a specialty simply for the $$$, you're not gonna be happy no matter how much you make. Just based on this initial post, my advice to you would be to seriously reconsider going into medicine.

 

[67552931811]

In because this thread is awesome.

 

[mk04447]

Nobody needs more than $75k a year. Didn't you see that report?

 

[WingedOx]

In because this thread is awesome.

Shouldn't you be passed out in a pool of your own celebratory vomit on Addison street right now?

 

[67552931811]

Should you be passed out in a pool of your own celebratory vomit on Addison street right now?

Lol. Not a big drinker. Really trying to enjoy this time. 3 in 6: crazy.

 

[yanks26dmb]

What is in the processes for one to be preoccupied with getting ready for MS1? All I know is the summer before, I just traveled, so I find it interesting a simple google search may be beyond the scope of your current predicament.

Medical school is going to be real fun for you.

In all honesty, there isn't much to be preoccupied with - I've been traveling since December. My point, which I suppose could have been better stated, was I have 7 years to learn how post residency hiring works.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

In all honesty, there isn't much to be preoccupied with - I've been traveling since December. My point, which I suppose could have been better stated, was I have 7 years to learn how post residency hiring works.

Quoting this just because its amazing



Dumb pretentious nontrads are my favorite, but a rich dumb pretentious nontrad who plans to spend 7 years training for a career, then google about what that career is.....

This is going to be amazing.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Quoting this just because its amazing



Dumb pretentious nontrads are my favorite, but a rich dumb pretentious nontrad who plans to spend 7 years training for a career, then google about what that career is.....

This is going to be amazing.

You're silly.

Congrats on being smart and non pretentious. good luck to you.

 

[ToldYouSo]

As long as schools have no qualms about hiking tuition up every year, I absolutely can and will care about money

 

[kenjixshadow]

There are ppl who don't like money? Well whatever

 

[Buckeye1992]

There were people in my MS1 class who didn't know about clinicals and thought we spent 4 years in classes

 

[jw3600]

There were people in my MS1 class who didn't know about clinicals and thought we spent 4 years in classes

People in my class did not know how the match worked. Obviously there are intricacies, but for 300k you might wanna be at least familiar with it.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Well this thread got massively derailed...

 

[jw3600]

Well this thread got massively derailed...

Disagree. It resolved of its own volition after the first response. The correct description of what happened to this thread is tangential and superfluous continuation.

 

[mk04447]

Disagree. It resolved of its own volition after the first response. The correct description of what happened to this thread is tangential and superfluous continuation.

ELL?

 

[yanks26dmb]

Disagree. It resolved of its own volition after the first response. The correct description of what happened to this thread is tangential and superfluous continuation.

jesus...

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

I don't get why it's a taboo for wanting to earn good living in medicine.

If people don't consider what they are going to make, they are foolish. I think people are just always on the lookout for the people that go into medicine simply for the money, and are also antisocial psychopaths. We've all met those.

 

[W19]

If people don't consider what they are going to make, they are foolish. I think people are just always on the lookout for the people that go into medicine simply for the money, and are also antisocial psychopaths. We've all met those.

I am not sure if there is anything wrong with that as long as they are competent physicians...

 

[yanks26dmb]

Agree with the above. If a person goes into medicine simply for the money, you'd think they'd try their hardest to be the best physician possible. I see nothing wrong with this...

 

[diesel2101]

If people don't consider what they are going to make, they are foolish. I think people are just always on the lookout for the people that go into medicine simply for the money, and are also antisocial psychopaths. We've all met those.

It's because people want to seem like martyrs whose sole reason for pursuing medicine is to stitch wounds in third world countries for free.

All of this comes from neurotic pre-meds who feigned altruism (pushing patients in the hospital, anyone?) in order to get into medical school.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

not sure if this was mentioned, but anyone see rads or gas be a 275k+ speciality? i know its a bit early to see how things will play out