Why do pharmacists get paid so much?

[FutureDO2016]

Just wondering why pharmD's that study only 6 years after high school or less even for some programs, get paid around 100-150 thousand and more for some places while doctors get paid so little compared to the years of training and education (takes about 11-12 years for smallest 3 year residency) needed to become a licensed physician. Especially when a family medicine doc makes around 150-200 thousand.

Are the doctors lobbying in DC not doing as good of a job as the pharmacists? or is the system just messed up?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[owlegrad]

Don't forget we also don't pay much or anything for liability insurance.

 

[Dr Wario]

Because people like drugs, and we are just that awesome.

 

[naseuy]

Because I have to deal with people on on the cray-cray scale everyday. Also, I have to fight the urge to punch people in the face everyday, that deserves some compensation, right?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I don't know about the rest of these chumps, but I get paid extra because I'm so smart and sexy.

 

[Corpseman]

Who do you think puts the x in Rx?

 

[Digsbe]

Just wondering why pharmD's that study only 6 years after high school or less even for some programs, get paid around 100-150 thousand and more for some places while doctors get paid so little compared to the years of training and education (takes about 11-12 years for smallest 3 year residency) needed to become a licensed physician. Especially when a family medicine doc makes around 150-200 thousand.

Are the doctors lobbying in DC not doing as good of a job as the pharmacists? or is the system just messed up?

6 years or less? It's 6 years minimum and regardless those six years include 4 years of professional schooling and generally do pretty much identical pre-reqs when compared to pre-med students in their undergrad years (they just don't get their bachelors). Many go for 8 (myself included) just as long as our physician counterparts when it comes to years spent in school. Some pharmacist opt to do 2 year residencies post graduation as well to specialize in an area and generally they don't get paid more than their community counterparts that started working right out of school. It's about the market. Having an MD/DO degree can give a person the opportunity the do a residency and fellowship in certain areas that pay 300k+ per year. The market largely dictates salary and right now the market pays other areas of medicine more than general practitioners/pediatricians. Pharmacists make a good living comparable to a family physician because right now that's what the market values pharmacist labor and because our malpractice costs less.

 

[Travex]

PA is 6 to 7 years and makes ~100k as well. Too lazy to look it up, but NP is probably similar. So it's really not just us. Physicians have a lot more potential to make a ton more. I don't have the numbers but the number/percentage of physicians making >200k is definitely way more than pharmacists. I would assume <1% of pharmacists make >200k. Don't got into family med if you don't think the compensation is worth it...

 

[awval999]

Just wondering why pharmD's that study only 6 years after high school or less even for some programs, get paid around 100-150 thousand and more for some places while doctors get paid so little compared to the years of training and education (takes about 11-12 years for smallest 3 year residency) needed to become a licensed physician. Especially when a family medicine doc makes around 150-200 thousand.

Are the doctors lobbying in DC not doing as good of a job as the pharmacists? or is the system just messed up?

You are comparing the highest paid area of pharmacy practice--- a community, retail pharmacist with the lowest paid area of medicine--- a family practice physician.

The minimum schooling for a PharmD is 6 years, and I'd say half of graduating pharmacists have spent 8 years in post-secondary schools.

Pay rate is not determined by how long someone has been in school--- if so then the standard PhD would be earning much more than everyone else. Just not the way it is. Pay rate is determined by market rate. This is why the standard community pharmacist makes more than the PGY-2 trained Infectious Disease clinical pharmacist. Trust me, Walgreens would pay less if they could. At this point in time they cannot. Perhaps in the future they will be able to pay less.

Why do you think lobbying our Congress has anything to do with market based salaries?

 

[BMBiology]

If you had gone into pharmacy 10 years ago, you would today:

(1) own a house
(2) have 350 k in your 401 k
(3) have 100 k in your company's stocks
(4) have no student loan debt
(5) married with children (cutest babies ever, too)
(6) work 40 hours a week with the option of working part-time

 

[KARM12]

Probably the same guy who posted the comment on LECOM's facebook page...

LOL...typical entitled DO student.

 

[lt23]

6 years or less? It's 6 years minimum and regardless those six years include 4 years of professional schooling and generally do pretty much identical pre-reqs when compared to pre-med students in their undergrad years (they just don't get their bachelors). Many go for 8 (myself included) just as long as our physician counterparts when it comes to years spent in school. Some pharmacist opt to do 2 year residencies post graduation as well to specialize in an area and generally they don't get paid more than their community counterparts that started working right out of school. It's about the market. Having an MD/DO degree can give a person the opportunity the do a residency and fellowship in certain areas that pay 300k+ per year. The market largely dictates salary and right now the market pays other areas of medicine more than general practitioners/pediatricians. Pharmacists make a good living comparable to a family physician because right now that's what the market values pharmacist labor and because our malpractice costs less.

I can do it in 5 years. 2 undergrad + 3 years pharmd. Making ~$130k when I'm 23 years old.

 

[confettiflyer]

silly DO student, cuz the market will bear it!

Do kids not learn basic Econ anymore?

 

[BMBiology]

I can do it in 5 years. 2 undergrad + 3 years pharmd. Making ~$130k when I'm 23 years old.

Slaving away at cvs is not exactly ideal for a 23 year old kid. Give it 6 months and you will know what I mean.

 

[BenJammin]

Just wondering why pharmD's that study only 6 years after high school or less even for some programs, get paid around 100-150 thousand and more for some places while doctors get paid so little compared to the years of training and education (takes about 11-12 years for smallest 3 year residency) needed to become a licensed physician. Especially when a family medicine doc makes around 150-200 thousand.

Are the doctors lobbying in DC not doing as good of a job as the pharmacists? or is the system just messed up?

Go pound sand. Nobody gives a damn about your insulting opinion.

 

[lt23]

Slaving away at cvs is not exactly ideal for a 23 year old kid. Give it 6 months and you will know what I mean.

I'm 30

 

[BMBiology]

I'm 30

then give it 3 months.

 

[lt23]

then give it 3 months.

I think this hospital gives new hire clinical pharmacists health insurance after 3 months? That's how it works right? 90 days until you get benefits....thought with health insurance, it would allow me to have better quality of life.....Ok I'll listen to your advice and wait 3 months, then we'll see what happens.

 

[BMBiology]

I think this hospital gives new hire clinical pharmacists health insurance after 3 months? That's how it works right? 90 days until you get benefits....thought with health insurance, it would allow me to have better quality of life.....Ok I'll listen to your advice and wait 3 months, then we'll see what happens.

I hope so but some hospitals you have to wait 6-12 months. I believe CVS makes you wait for a year?

 

[owlegrad]

I hope so but some hospitals you have to wait 6-12 months. I believe CVS makes you wait for a year?

No, 90 days for RPh. No idea about the rest of the store.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

Do kids not learn basic Econ anymore?

Eh, next you will be asking why common sense isn't so common, won't ya?

 

[FutureDO2016]

I'm not trying to start a riot but what factors shaped the market to dictate these sort of salaries? While I know some doctors can make a lot of money, the majority of medical graduates enter family medicine and internal medicine and majority of pharmDs enter retail pharmacy.

Nope never took Econ and I'm not anti pharmacist or anything but I do think the compensation levels are rather high especially with no malpractice insurance, 9-5 job and technicians doing all the work.

 

[Corpseman]

I'm not trying to start a riot but what factors shaped the market to dictate these sort of salaries? While I know some doctors can make a lot of money, the majority of medical graduates enter family medicine and internal medicine and majority of pharmDs enter retail pharmacy.

Nope never took Econ and I'm not anti pharmacist or anything but I do think the compensation levels are rather high especially with no malpractice insurance, 9-5 job and technicians doing all the work.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

We are vastly overpaid. As are physicians. And dentists. And PAs. Hence, I went into the healthcare field. You could always just drop out and go to pharmacy school. Or do better in school and become a radiologist.

 

[ACE Rx]

I'm not trying to start a riot but what factors shaped the market to dictate these sort of salaries? While I know some doctors can make a lot of money, the majority of medical graduates enter family medicine and internal medicine and majority of pharmDs enter retail pharmacy.

Nope never took Econ and I'm not anti pharmacist or anything but I do think the compensation levels are rather high especially with no malpractice insurance, 9-5 job and technicians doing all the work.

Try working 8 to 12 hour shifts in retail with no breaks, phones ringing off the hook, patients waiting to be counseled, dealing with insurance issues, handling crazy people wanting their narcotic fixes, verifying prescriptions, reviewing medication records, making OTC recommendations, providing free consultations to patients who cannot afford to see a physician, etc. By the way, pharmacists would be extremely lucky if they had 1 - 2 techs working with them. Most of the time, pharmacies are extremely short-handed and technician hours are getting cut left and right leaving the pharmacist to do everything.

By the way, your statement is itself a contradiction. You don't mean to start a riot yet you start one by making insulting statements. Have some respect. Thanks.

 

[Lnsean]

Just wondering why pharmD's that study only 6 years after high school or less even for some programs, get paid around 100-150 thousand and more for some places while doctors get paid so little compared to the years of training and education (takes about 11-12 years for smallest 3 year residency) needed to become a licensed physician. Especially when a family medicine doc makes around 150-200 thousand.

Are the doctors lobbying in DC not doing as good of a job as the pharmacists? or is the system just messed up?

We don't get paid much...there is no vertical movement or progression. You guys start off with 45k at residency and continue to move up...the sky is the limit. The main reason many people do pharmacy is because they don't want to touch people.

 

[PeachyOrange]

You are comparing the highest paid area of pharmacy practice--- a community, retail pharmacist with the lowest paid area of medicine--- a family practice physician.

The minimum schooling for a PharmD is 6 years, and I'd say half of graduating pharmacists have spent 8 years in post-secondary schools.

Pay rate is not determined by how long someone has been in school--- if so then the standard PhD would be earning much more than everyone else. Just not the way it is. Pay rate is determined by market rate. This is why the standard community pharmacist makes more than the PGY-2 trained Infectious Disease clinical pharmacist. Trust me, Walgreens would pay less if they could. At this point in time they cannot. Perhaps in the future they will be able to pay less.

Why do you think lobbying our Congress has anything to do with market based salaries?

Well, it is the folks up in DC who are the reason behind Walgreens not paying you less than they are. I'm sure that took some lobbying to get here

 

[PeachyOrange]

Probably the same guy who posted the comment on LECOM's facebook page...

LOL...typical entitled DO student.

Not all DO students feel entitled. There's many of us DO students in the house, I doubt whoever started this thread is the same person who you're referring to.

 

[PeachyOrange]

Try working 8 to 12 hour shifts in retail with no breaks, phones ringing off the hook, patients waiting to be counseled, dealing with insurance issues, handling crazy people wanting their narcotic fixes, verifying prescriptions, reviewing medication records, making OTC recommendations, providing free consultations to patients who cannot afford to see a physician, etc. By the way, pharmacists would be extremely lucky if they had 1 - 2 techs working with them. Most of the time, pharmacies are extremely short-handed and technician hours are getting cut left and right leaving the pharmacist to do everything.

By the way, your statement is itself a contradiction. You don't mean to start a riot yet you start one by making insulting statements. Have some respect. Thanks.

Not to sound disrespectful or anything Ace Rx, you just demeaned pharmacists with your description of typical retail work sounding like that of an office secretary or even a front desk receptionist.......

 

[atpsynthase]

I'd say most physicians who's tush has been saved by a pharmacist recognize our value.

 

[Momus]

If you had gone into pharmacy 10 years ago, you would today:

(1) own a house
(2) have 350 k in your 401 k
(3) have 100 k in your company's stocks
(4) have no student loan debt
(5) married with children (cutest babies ever, too)
(6) work 40 hours a week with the option of working part-time

That's a lot of money in 401k. I have 1/3rd of that in 401k and I started investing in 401k 2009. I am in still within my goal to get 1M in 3 years tho and that would be less than 10 years working. If I reach it, I will be really happy about it and can splurge here and there once in a while. I just splurge on treating a gf and myself spending $800 in 2 days in 5 star hotel. And god, it felt like **** spending that much LOL

Did you get lucky and avoid the crash? Or, your spouse makes about the same? I think anyone who start working 2003 would probably break even, a little positive now or get crushed by the 2009 bears.

 

[Kravitz]

Just wondering why pharmD's that study only 6 years after high school or less even for some programs, get paid around 100-150 thousand and more for some places while doctors get paid so little compared to the years of training and education (takes about 11-12 years for smallest 3 year residency) needed to become a licensed physician. Especially when a family medicine doc makes around 150-200 thousand.

Are the doctors lobbying in DC not doing as good of a job as the pharmacists? or is the system just messed up?

It is primarily due to supply and demand. However, the landscape is changing. I have worked for a major compounding pharmacy before and they are starting to see some changes. Pharmacist there counted vials all day for a six figure salary. However, now these pharmacists are sweating it because the company knows that they can hire another pharmacist to do the same job (ie. standing around lol) for mush less. Plus a few states have already given more power to technicians. Just last week one of the technicians at this facility that I keep in touch with told me that she was basically substituting for a pharmacist who was on vacation.

I'd say most physicians who's tush has been saved by a pharmacist recognize our value.

All 2 of them?

 

[FutureDO2016]

I just don't see the value in paying pharmacists as much as they work...I mean verifying drugs is important but robots are doing that nowadays:

lets not forget robotic pharmacy dispensing systems like at UCSF:

AutomatonRoboticsMedical Robots
Slick Robotic System Makes UCSF's Pharmacy Safer and More Efficient

By Evan Ackerman

"The pharmacy at UCSF Medical Center hands out something like 10,000 doses of medication per day. That's a lot of pills, and generally, it's the job of pharmacy workers to take care of all of the sorting and checking and bottling and double-checking. It's not just labor-intensive, it requires skill, and if you mess something up, you run the risk of killing someone.With all this in mind, UCSF has invested in a team of robotic pharmacy workers which can handle prescriptions all the way from electronic orders from doctors and nurses to dispensing individual pills, arranged on a handy plastic ring in order of when they should be taken.While the robotic system is obviously very efficient, efficiency is only a part of the benefit. It's easier to keep records. There's very little risk of contamination. Staff can now spend more time with patients. And mistakes with medication are few and far between. Or actually, that's an understatement, since the robots have a record of 350,000 successful medication preparations with zero screw-ups. Not bad."

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/...makes-ucsfs-pharmacy-safer-and-more-efficient

So I guess these robotic systems will be taking over pharmacies in the next 30-50 years but I don't know if we can train robots to diagnose/treat patients like doctors...an interesting future awaits!

 

[FutureDO2016]

This is a forum to discuss ideas, concepts, and opinions. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. It's simply my opinion.

 

[confettiflyer]

You're confusing dispensing functions with clinical judgement. Robots don't go on rounds with physicians nor do they provide clinical decision support either.

My job can't be effectively replaced by a robot.

 

[Kravitz]

Not to sound disrespectful or anything Ace Rx, you just demeaned pharmacists with your description of typical retail work sounding like that of an office secretary or even a front desk receptionist.......

I disagree, he didn't demean pharmacists. That is exactly what they do.

You're confusing dispensing functions with clinical judgement. Robots don't go on rounds with physicians nor do they provide clinical decision support either.

My job can't be effectively replaced by a robot.

Robots do go on rounds. It's called an iPad. Plus clinical decisions are made by physicians NOT pharmacists.

This is a forum to discuss ideas, concepts, and opinions. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. It's simply my opinion.

We will get banned by 8am EST.

 

[confettiflyer]

Robots do go on rounds. It's called an iPad. Plus clinical decisions are made by physicians NOT pharmacists.

you don't know how to read, try rereading my post, you're missing the word after "clinical decision"

stop cherry picking


jesus what's with all the ******* pre-meds sh*tting in the pharmacy forum? i miss my stupid arguments with the regulars.

 

[Kravitz]

you don't know how to read, try rereading my post, you're missing the word after "clinical decision"

stop cherry picking


jesus what's with all the ******* pre-meds sh*tting in the pharmacy forum? i miss my stupid arguments with the regulars.

I can school your dumb pill counting ass. "Clinical decision support"

You pharmacists/pharmacy students can't have a discussion that sheds light on how overpaid you guys are. You start name calling and banning people.

 

[confettiflyer]

I can school your dumb pill counting ass.

yes, i count pills and ring people up for toilet paper...and wipe my ass with money.

 

[confettiflyer]

I
You pharmacists/pharmacy students can't have a discussion that sheds light on how overpaid you guys are. You start name calling and banning people.

there's no such thing as being overpaid in a market economy. again, you kids not taking econ?

everything/everyone is priced as they should be.

If you pay $400 for a toothless crackhead hooker, then that's what she's worth to you.

 

[naseuy]

I just don't see the value in paying pharmacists as much as they work...I mean verifying drugs is important but robots are doing that nowadays:

lets not forget robotic pharmacy dispensing systems like at UCSF:

AutomatonRoboticsMedical Robots
Slick Robotic System Makes UCSF's Pharmacy Safer and More Efficient

By Evan Ackerman

"The pharmacy at UCSF Medical Center hands out something like 10,000 doses of medication per day. That's a lot of pills, and generally, it's the job of pharmacy workers to take care of all of the sorting and checking and bottling and double-checking. It's not just labor-intensive, it requires skill, and if you mess something up, you run the risk of killing someone.With all this in mind, UCSF has invested in a team of robotic pharmacy workers which can handle prescriptions all the way from electronic orders from doctors and nurses to dispensing individual pills, arranged on a handy plastic ring in order of when they should be taken.While the robotic system is obviously very efficient, efficiency is only a part of the benefit. It's easier to keep records. There's very little risk of contamination. Staff can now spend more time with patients. And mistakes with medication are few and far between. Or actually, that's an understatement, since the robots have a record of 350,000 successful medication preparations with zero screw-ups. Not bad."

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/...makes-ucsfs-pharmacy-safer-and-more-efficient

So I guess these robotic systems will be taking over pharmacies in the next 30-50 years but I don't know if we can train robots to diagnose/treat patients like doctors...an interesting future awaits!

We already have robotics in many hospitals and pharmacies. They count, and prepare medications, and cut down on tech work, but they do not review patient profiles for potential interactions, duplications, or inappropriate dosing.

 

[SoylentGreen]

Just wondering why pharmD's that study only 6 years after high school or less even for some programs, get paid around 100-150 thousand and more for some places while doctors get paid so little compared to the years of training and education (takes about 11-12 years for smallest 3 year residency) needed to become a licensed physician. Especially when a family medicine doc makes around 150-200 thousand.

Are the doctors lobbying in DC not doing as good of a job as the pharmacists? or is the system just messed up?

Probably because of the prestige factor. People will work for less for jobs that are considered prestigious for less than they would work for a job that's less prestigious. Being a physician is more prestigious than being a pharmacist. You have Gray's Anatomy, we have Artie Goldman from Family Guy. You are going to be the god of your own little domain while we get handsomely paid to be metaphorically **** on all day by customers and management. I have a hunch that your ego is too big to put up with that.

 

[KARM12]

Being a DO is not prestigious.

So have these discussions on your own threads. I don't really care if you think I get paid too much, it is clear you have no idea what I do. I do not work retail pharmacy.

 

[KARM12]

I can school your dumb pill counting ass. "Clinical decision support"

You pharmacists/pharmacy students can't have a discussion that sheds light on how overpaid you guys are. You start name calling and banning people.

I'd like to see this happen. Pre-med versus my years of clinical pharmacy experience. I bet you I know more about clinical decision making related to patient care than yourself.

 

[Dr Wario]

Wow please try not to be jealous that I'll have more money than you at the age of 40 than you will have at 65. At the end of the day, I don't really care about the exact market factors that determine an average pharmacist will earn 125k while the average doctor will earn 200k but have longer training and 50-100% higher educational expense. I simply care that, considering for time/effort/expense, I am much better off financially than a typical FM or ped doc, so eat it!

Oh Ps, I make about 155k on a 44 hour work week plus benefits working retail, so eat it again!

 

[Temperature101]

If you had gone into pharmacy 10 years ago, you would today:

(1) own a house
(2) have 350 k in your 401 k
(3) have 100 k in your company's stocks
(4) have no student loan debt
(5) married with children (cutest babies ever, too)
(6) work 40 hours a week with the option of working part-time

You forgot the saving account...

 

[Kravitz]

Wow please try not to be jealous that I'll have more money than you at the age of 40 than you will have at 65. At the end of the day, I don't really care about the exact market factors that determine an average pharmacist will earn 125k while the average doctor will earn 200k but have longer training and 50-100% higher educational expense. I simply care that, considering for time/effort/expense, I am much better off financially than a typical FM or ped doc, so eat it!

Oh Ps, I make about 155k on a 44 hour work week plus benefits working retail, so eat it again!

Well, if you are satisfied with being the 'Snooki' of the health care field than knock yourself out. Oh by the way, where do you keep the nail polish?

On the average, I think a physician will have a lot more money than a pharmacist at age 65.

I'd like to see this happen. Pre-med versus my years of clinical pharmacy experience. I bet you I know more about clinical decision making related to patient care than yourself.

You mean years of experience in looking things up?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I already out-trolled this Kravitz dude once...and I do enjoy trolling...too bad I have plans this morning...on the first of my 7 days off in a row...that I get every other week.

If the USMNT wins Wed, I think I'll go to the finals on Sunday in Chicago...because I can. Going to Boston in 4 weeks. Austin in September. Montreal in October. ****, I don't give a damn about stupid pissing match stuff like this anymore. I got it way too made to care.

But trolling for my own amusement...now that's fun. But, alas, I got plans...

Argue on, denizens of SDN. I'll catch up...

 

[Kravitz]

I already out-trolled this Kravitz dude once...and I do enjoy trolling...too bad I have plans this morning...on the first of my 7 days off in a row...that I get every other week.

If the USMNT wins Wed, I think I'll go to the finals on Sunday in Chicago...because I can. Going to Boston in 4 weeks. Austin in September. Montreal in October. ****, I don't give a damn about stupid pissing match stuff like this anymore. I got it way too made to care.

But trolling for my own amusement...now that's fun. But, alas, I got plans...

Argue on, denizens of SDN. I'll catch up...

Not a dude! And you did not out troll me since I wasn't trolling.

Plus, you are here 24/7, 365, who are you trying to kid that you have things to do?

Have a wonderful day!

 

[ValeRx]

You're confusing dispensing functions with clinical judgement. Robots don't go on rounds with physicians nor do they provide clinical decision support either.

My job can't be effectively replaced by a robot.

Confetti.. you ARE the robot!