Why do pharmacy schools require more prereqs than medical schools?

[starsweet]

Does this make any sense? My sister, who's now in med school, was only required to take a year of general bio, chem, organic chem, physics, calculus, and English as a pre-med. I understand that it's the same across the board for ALL med schools. Why does pharmacy school have all these extra requirements? Anatomy and physiology, microbiology, genetics, biochem, etc.? My sister didn't take any of these classes prior to med school except biochem, which was required as a biomedical engineering major. When I tell people who are not in the health science field about all these other classes I am taking BEFORE pharmacy school, they always get confused and think I'm already in pharmacy school. I think it's ridiculous. And if it's because pharmacy schools don't require a BS, that shouldn't matter, because just because you have a BS doesn't mean you've taken all those classes. What if you majored in basketweaving?

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[Jw1724]

I'm starting to fill pre-reqs next year and it's insane! Admissions told me most students take 2 years to fulfill them but I see NO possibility in this. Just thinking about it stresses me out. So my answer would be... no idea! :-\

 

[insipid1979]

Well I know med students usually take anatomy and physiology their first year of med school. So they don't have to take it in undergrad. I'm not sure about the other classes though. But I know dental prereqs are similar to prepharm except they don't need orgo 2

 

[starsweet]

Right, so why do most pre-pharms have to take A/P before entering pharmacy school? Not to mention med school students only have 2 years of didactic learning while pharmacy students have 3, so you'd think we'd have enough time to cover all other stuff in the pharmacy curriculum.

 

[insipid1979]

Right, so why do most pre-pharms have to take A/P before entering pharmacy school? Not to mention med school students only have 2 years of didactic learning while pharmacy students have 3, so you'd think we'd have enough time to cover all other stuff in the pharmacy curriculum.

I haven't started pharmacy school yet but I don't think you take anatomy again. You do take physiology though but I imagine it is a lot different than undergrad physiology.

 

[tlnbtb]

I don't know anyone who can get into med school or even get a decent score on the MCAT without taking all the bio classes. My wife is a doctor and everyone in her class has at least a b.s. in something or beyond. What school does your sister go to?

 

[starsweet]

I don't know anyone who can get into med school or even get a decent score on the MCAT without taking all the bio classes. My wife is a doctor and everyone in her class has at least a b.s. in something or beyond. What school does your sister go to?

I guess I need to clarify my question. I was referring to the general requirements for med school vs. pharm school. There are more requirements for pharmacy school, which doesn't make any sense to me. So it doesn't matter where my sister goes to med school, as all the med school requirements are the same.

 

[DownonthePharm]

Does anyone get accepted into medical school without actually having a BS though? It is pretty routine for those with two years of college to get into pharmacy school.

Maybe its the difference between being a generalist and a specialist. Within the first 4 years a doctor is more of a generalist. They will learn a little about a lot of body, and most of what they learn is during clinical observation. A pharmacist, on the other hand, will learn a lot about a little part of the body, and most of what they learn can be learned from class.

I think in general pharmacy is a more fact than intuition based field. Because we are having to learn the nuances of complex but orderly/mathmatical systems like the bodys breakdown of drugs there is a lot more facts that we need to learn. Also not being exposed for 6+ years to clinical instances like doctors are, we just have to take our lessions from class and run with them, we learn micro by theory. They learn micro by seeing someones skin rot off.

This is neither good nor bad. Just different.

 

[starsweet]

Does anyone get accepted into medical school without actually having a BS though? It is pretty routine for those with two years of college to get into pharmacy school.

This is true, but I don't understand what it has to do with this issue. Are you saying that the "perk" of pharmacy is that you can get into pharmacy school without a BS, and the "perk" of medicine is that you can get into medical school with fewer requirements than pharmacy? Everything else you said about being a generalist vs. specialist makes sense.

 

[insipid1979]

It is pretty routine for those with two years of college to get into pharmacy school.

I don't think that will be the case for long. For UIC I have heard that anyone entering undergrad next year will have to get a BS in order to be accepted into pharmacy school. I know this year all the new students in GPPA (guaranteed seat in pharmacy school) have to complete a bachelors degree. I think more and more schools will probably start doing that soon.

For the thread topic...I just looked at UIC prereqs for med school and they are pretty much the same as Pharmacy. A lot of what they don't list is because it is needed for a BS degree anyways. I thought that was the case for most med schools. 1 year of biology, 1 year of general chemistry, 1 year of orgo etc. They don't list english, calculus, economics, and all those classes because it is prereqs for a BS degree.

 

[UVaWahoo]

They don't list english, calculus, economics, and all those classes because it is prereqs for a BS degree.

I'm getting a BS in biomedical engineering, and i had to go out of my way to take both econ and english (we take technical writing classes, which apparently don't always count). neither required for my degree.

And i'm not going to get into Auburn b/c i didnt complete their prereqs, because i honestly didnt have room to (i'll have 180 credit hrs when i graduate, and i still need all 15 credits that i have this semester for my degree...). missing genetics, microbiology, immunology, and biochem.
crazy prereqs they got.

 

[patmcd]

Since med schools require a BS degree the number of pre-reqs they specific is less. They assume that everyone with a bs will get a general education in the process. But with pharmacy you don't have to get a bs, so they have to specify exactly which college classes you need beforehand. Also since pharmacy schools don't require a BS what they teach, especially in the P1 year, can vary more. Each school makes its own list of pre-reqs, so its incoming students are on the same footing for their specific set up.

 

[starsweet]

I was actually referring to the extra classes in genetics, microbiology, A/P, etc. that pharmacy schools require. Med schools do not actually require these classes, even though they are "highly recommended" (still not required) depending on the school.

http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/start.htm

 

[insipid1979]

I was actually referring to the extra classes in genetics, microbiology, A/P, etc. that pharmacy schools require. Med schools do not actually require these classes, even though they are "highly recommended" (still not required) depending on the school.

http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/start.htm

A lot of pharmacy schools don't require those classes either (except for A/P...which I already gave an explanation why)...

 

[museabuse]

Pharmacy school is much more competitive than med school (i.e. more pharmacy applicants for each open seat). Within the last few years more and more people are going into pharmacy. It only makes sense to increase the requirements. I think they can make a BS degree a prerequisite and still have enough quality applicants. I also think they can make working/shadowing in a pharmacy a certain number of hours a prereq also. I think it would only help the profession to do this.

 

[DownonthePharm]

Because the medical students get that information either by having an "Anatomy" class, or integrated as part of the material they learn within their coursework/clinicals.

Perhaps a pharmacy education requires you to already have a working knowledge of this information because it would be difficult to lecture about the mechanism of antibiotic drugs if you dont already have some understanding of the structure of a microorganism.

For what its worth, at OUHSC the requirements for medical/pharmacy are the same except:

English - three semesters (medical) one semester (pharmacy)
Physics - two semesters (medical) one semester (pharmacy)
Social Science - three semesters (medical) one semester (pharmacy)
Histology, Genetics, Embryology, Cellular Biology or Comparative Anatomy (any of these) - one semester (medical)
Business and Economics - one semester (pharmacy)
Microbiology - one semester (pharmacy)
Human Anatomy or Human Physiology - one semester (pharmacy)

It looks as though for admission, the pharmacy program requires less english, physics, and social sciences, and replaces that with business, microbiology, and A/P.

First year medical students will study: anatomy, genetics, physiology, and biochem in their programs.

First year pharmacy students study: Biochem, physiology. The rest is all "pharmacy" classes.

So ask your sister how much "soft" science like english, sociology and anthropology she had to take.

 

[starsweet]

Just English, but she was a biomedical engineering major, so humanities are not emphasized as much.

 

[insipid1979]

Pharmacy school is much more competitive than med school (i.e. more pharmacy applicants for each open seat).

No way. Med school is a lot more competitive. Look at the stats for students applying to med school compared to pharmacy school. There might be more applicants for pharmacy schools but a lot are from community colleges and without bachelor degrees...and the GPA is usually lower. The extra curriculars a lot of med school applicants have are insane.

 

[erinlindsey]

I agree with insipid, med school is a lot more competitive. They may not require as many science classes but the amount of ECs you have to have is ridiculous, GPA's are a lot higher, and have you seen the MCAT??? that 8 hours of testing fun cannot be compared to the PCAT
As for the prereqs, mds and pharmds do different things. Physicians need more indepth A&P then we do so they get it in med school. Pharmd's need the foundations of the other classes to be able to understand what they'll be learning in school so we need more micro and chem.

 

[twester]

Why does pharmacy school have all these extra requirements?

I had posted a long, drawn-out opinion about how these "extra" courses move one along on the path to a BS. Scratch that. I get the feeling that the OP is not taking the curriculum seriously and there may not be a grasp of what pharmacy is.

I feel like the pre-reqs that I've taken have given me a good basic knowledge of the scientific method and many of the concepts that I will need in order to begin to grasp the science of pharmacy. There's a lot more to pharmacy than counting pills and dealing with insurance companies.

If the workload bothers anyone, then go talk to the communications department. I'm sure they've got room for another student.

 

[starsweet]

I had posted a long, drawn-out opinion about how these "extra" courses move one along on the path to a BS. Scratch that. I get the feeling that the OP is not taking the curriculum seriously and there may not be a grasp of what pharmacy is.

I feel like the pre-reqs that I've taken have given me a good basic knowledge of the scientific method and many of the concepts that I will need in order to begin to grasp the science of pharmacy. There's a lot more to pharmacy than counting pills and dealing with insurance companies.

If the workload bothers anyone, then go talk to the communications department. I'm sure they've got room for another student.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'm not taking the curriculum seriously. I have an engineering degree, so trust me, I know what a difficult curriculum and a tough workload is. And obviously I know what pharmacy is, otherwise I wouldn't have switched careers to become a pharmacist. A lot of time, effort, and money are involved in doing so. All I said was that I just think that it's weird that pharmacy will require courses such as genetics, microbiology, or immunology, while the OFFICIAL requirements for medical school do not include these courses.

As another poster pointed out, medical school is definitely much more competitive and harder to get into than pharmacy school because of the ECs, volunteer work, and research that are basically "required." I hope that my original post didn't imply that I thought pharmacy school was more competitive, because this is not what I meant at all. I just think the difference in actual class requirements is weird. Anyways, I'm out.

 

[museabuse]

I agree with insipid, med school is a lot more competitive. .

I did not say it was easier to get into med school. I was just saying there are more applicants per seat with pharmacy school than med school. Meaning it is more competitive. The requirements for pharmacy school are much easier, but with the increase in applicants instituions can afford to, and should increase the requirements for pharmacy school. There is something wrong with a 19 year old being admitted to a doctoral granting professional program.

 

[twester]

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'm not taking the curriculum seriously. I have an engineering degree, so trust me, I know what a difficult curriculum and a tough workload is. And obviously I know what pharmacy is, otherwise I wouldn't have switched careers to become a pharmacist. A lot of time, effort, and money are involved in doing so. All I said was that I just think that it's weird that pharmacy will require courses such as genetics, microbiology, or immunology, while the OFFICIAL requirements for medical school do not include these courses.

I stand corrected. But the point that many people have tried to make, but that you aren't willing to accept (I inferred a reason, and apologize) is that although medical schools don't require those courses explicity, they are implicitly required as part of a BS program (which is a requirement for medical school). I know, I know there's the occasional PE teacher or music major that goes on to medical school - but I'm not talking about those people.

Say I wanted to go to medical school. I would need to finish my BS (human biology in my case). I would be required by the program to take genetics, immunology, virology, pathogenic microbiology, parasitology, endocrinology - just so I could get my BS.

If you look at the curriculum and course numbers of most pharmacy schools, the P1 and P2 courses are numbered 3--- and 4---, respectively (or 3--/4--, if you will). I think that indicates junior and senior level courses at most schools. In effect, those are undergrad courses (even if they're being taught in a professional school.

BTW, I've only seen one school that requires immunology and biochemistry and I think most of the students that enter the school have a BS when they do so (UT Memphis). I'm sure there are others since I've not examined entrance requirements for all schools, but schools that do are the exception - far from the rule.

 

[insipid1979]

I did not say it was easier to get into med school. I was just saying there are more applicants per seat with pharmacy school than med school. Meaning it is more competitive.

But it isn't more competitive... because even though there are more applicants (i'm not even sure if that is the case...but I will take your word on it for the sake of argument) the stats aren't as high across the board. Take your average med school applicant...if they applied to a pharmacy school they would probably have a very good chance of getting accepted. I don't think it applies the other way. That isn't to say that the prepharm student can't make it into med school but they will have to do a lot more work to make a competitive application...research etc.

What you are saying is like saying Yale is less competitve than a typical state school because more people apply to the state school. You aren't taking into account the stats that the typical applicant has.

 

[museabuse]

What you are saying is like saying Yale is less competitve than a typical state school because more people apply to the state school. You aren't taking into account the stats that the typical applicant has.

Ok... yes the stats are higher for med students, ok forget about it...

My point that I really want to make is that the bar needs to be raised for pharmacy. I think two years at a community college should not be the minimum to get into pharmacy school. You should have a 4 year degree. Think about it... we want to say we are professionals just like doctors, yet someone can graduate from pharmacy school at 21 or 22? If we raise the bar then we have a better argument to compare ourselves to doctors.

 

[ProRx]

Ok... yes the stats are higher for med students, ok forget about it...

My point that I really want to make is that the bar needs to be raised for pharmacy. I think two years at a community college should not be the minimum to get into pharmacy school. You should have a 4 year degree. Think about it... we want to say we are professionals just like doctors, yet someone can graduate from pharmacy school at 21 or 22? If we raise the bar then we have a better argument to compare ourselves to doctors.

10 years ago, one can graduate with BS in pharmacy at 22, 23, 2 years pre adn 3 years pharmacy
I think , it is not any more,

P1 is first semester is just like junior and senior in college, but after that Physiology is like med school , much more detail in depth to prepare you to learn pharmacology in second year, the other classes such as pharmacuetics, medicinal chem and other classes, you learn them with graduate students
then second year is holly cow, you even do not have time to take shower daily, or dress nice like in undergradute
I agree med school is more competative, if you do not beleive, take PCAT and next week take MCAT!!! you will see my point, no need to argue here

bye look at some prepharmcy sTAt of some student here, I can see them just as competative or more as premed students, but they choose pharmacy instead of medical., it is their choice

and you may see some pharmacy students are used to be premed too , well do what you do well and feel comforatable with it
not mean med students are smarter, some of them are just okay., or below average, they just take test better, or have willing to take higher risks,

you can see it when they write wrong medications , medications and disease do not match, wrong lab test orders, I see it daily

in my opinion, the top 50 % of pharmacy students if you put them in med school, they will do fine as med students or better, but they choose pharmacy,
I have a friend, 4 bothers and sisters , 2 in med school, 2 in pharmacy, they just equally smart, but 2 choose phamacy instead of med school, may be med school may not worth it as it used to be
their doctors's brothers may be give them some good advice

 

[RachGator]

I looked in to med school at the same time I began exploring different pharmacy school's pre-reqs. For med schools, I looked at good schools close to me like the University of Miami. What I was ticked off to find out was that they said they would not take pre-req science classes from Community Colleges. Has anyone else heard of this? This basically keeps people who have CC's as their only early college resource out of the top med programs. A lot of people take dual enrollment and get AA's before going to University. I decided that Pharm is better for me anyway but I thought that the no community college classes stuff was completely unfair. If these schools are supposed to be part of the larger state education system, classes with the same numbers should be treated equally.

 

[dgroulx]

My undergrad university has a guaranteed admission to Nova's Osteopathic med school if you maintain a certain GPA. I exceeded their requirements, but still chose pharmacy. The prereqs were exactly the same for me because I got my BS in biology.

 

[museabuse]

10 years ago, one can graduate with BS in pharmacy at 22, 23, 2 years pre adn 3 years pharmacy
I think , it is not any more,

graduate highschool at 17... 2 years Community College.... 3 years at pharm school... Doctorate Degree at 22 years old... and we want respect from doctors? Hmmmm.....

 

[insipid1979]

graduate highschool at 17... 2 years Community College.... 3 years at pharm school... Doctorate Degree at 22 years old... and we want respect from doctors? Hmmmm.....

You can drop out of high school...get a GED and do it sooner than that.

University of Chicago Medical school accepted a 12 year old. I don't see anyone complaining that their reputation is being shot down because of it.

Seems like you have an obsession as being treated as equals with doctors. Maybe you should have gone to med school instead? Sometimes I wish they didn't call the PharmD a doctorate degree because of people who seem to choose pharmacy because THEY THINK it is a "quick and easy doctorate degree" and then demand to be called doctors and talk about how they are equal to doctors. We aren't going to be physicians and we shouldn't expect to be treated like physicians...get over it.

Then again...if optometrists expect to be called doctors then so should we.

 

[museabuse]

You can drop out of high school...get a GED and do it sooner than that.

University of Chicago Medical school accepted a 12 year old. I don't see anyone complaining that their reputation is being shot down because of it.

Seems like you have an obsession as being treated as equals with doctors. Maybe you should have gone to med school instead? Sometimes I wish they didn't call the PharmD a doctorate degree because of people who seem to choose pharmacy because THEY THINK it is a "quick and easy doctorate degree" and then demand to be called doctors and talk about how they are equal to doctors. We aren't going to be physicians and we shouldn't expect to be treated like physicians...get over it.

Then again...if optometrists expect to be called doctors then so should we.

I don't have problem getting disrespected by doctors. But read many of the posts on here about how we deserve respect from doctors because we play a very important role in health care... If we want respect from doctors we need to have tougher admissions, perhaps a bachelors degree. If I am a doctor who just spent 10 years on my education would I want some 22 yo making 100,000K with 2 years of CC and 2years and 9 months of pharm school(with really only 2 years of academics) telling me what I need to prescribe?

 

[insipid1979]

I don't have problem getting disrespected by doctors. But read many of the posts on here about how we deserve respect from doctors because we play a very important role in health care... If we want respect from doctors we need to have tougher admissions, perhaps a bachelors degree. If I am a doctor who just spent 10 years on my education would I want some 22 yo making 100,000K with 2 years of CC and 2years and 9 months of pharm school(with really only 2 years of academics) telling me what I need to prescribe?

No, and that is my point. We aren't physicians and we shouldn't expect to be treated like one. It seems like the people who want to be called "doctors" the most are the ones that choose pharmacy just because it pays well and is a relatively quick doctorate degree (i'm not talking about you).

I think they should make it at least 3 years of undergrad to apply (which is how most med schools are actually)...I also think they should get rid of that weekend pharmacy school that was in that other thread. I think that clinical pharmacists should be called doctors if they went through one or two years of residency...but I don't think retail ones should be called doctors...because of the nature of their jobs...(I realize I am probably going to get flamed for that).

You are also using extreme age samples. Probably less than 1-2% of graduating pharmacists fit into your example.

 

[museabuse]

I am not saying a bachelor degree makes you a better pharmacist but in the eyes of the public and probably other healthcare professionals the more schooling, the more prepared you are.
If it was a prereq to have a bachelors degree to get into pharm school you can weed out those not serious about the profession and those who want a fast track to 100K and a doctorate degree.
There are people who have phds in art and sociology who had to go to school for >6 years to get that degree. You would think a pharmD would require more schooling than those degrees wouldn't you?

 

[museabuse]

I think they should make it at least 3 years of undergrad to apply (which is how most med schools are actually)....

Really I thought to go to med school you needed a bachelors degree. I don't want to be a doctor and never wanted to be a doctor... I am happy being the friendly retail pharmacist... or bean counter like many people still believe

 

[insipid1979]

Really I thought to go to med school you needed a bachelors degree. I don't want to be a doctor and never wanted to be a doctor... I am happy being the friendly retail pharmacist... or bean counter like many people still believe

It is recommended and of course the majority of accepted applicants have a bachelors degree. But from what I have seen some only "require" 3 years.

Taken from Darthmouth's website:
"Also required is the equivalent of at least three years' college work at an American or Canadian college or university. Along with completing the above premedical course requirements"

 

[starsweet]

I stand corrected. But the point that many people have tried to make, but that you aren't willing to accept (I inferred a reason, and apologize) is that although medical schools don't require those courses explicity, they are implicitly required as part of a BS program (which is a requirement for medical school). I know, I know there's the occasional PE teacher or music major that goes on to medical school - but I'm not talking about those people.

Ok, I'll give you that. But please understand that a lot of people get into med school without taking those courses, even if they did a BS in a science related field (I'm not talking PE here). For example, my sister did her BS in Biomedical Engineering at Johns Hopkins. She didn't take those courses because they were not part of the BME curriculum even though as an engineering major there were tons of other sciences that she took. Most of my other friends who are in med school did not take them either, and they all had science or engineering backgrounds. So I guess I mean to say that even though someone completed a BS, it does not implicitly imply that he or she took those courses. I understand that this is not the majority, but I guess from the people I know this is the case.

 

[imkim01]

Yes, it is true that having a BS doesn't mean you have completed the extra bio/chem classes. In my o-chem class, a couple of people with a BS are applying for med school and none of them were bio major. So many engineers and finance people are changing their career. I am not sure if it is true or not but one of my classmates told me that med schools usually want students to take the upper division bio classes like physiology and microbiology at med school.

Ok, I'll give you that. But please understand that a lot of people get into med school without taking those courses, even if they did a BS in a science related field (I'm not talking PE here). For example, my sister did her BS in Biomedical Engineering at Johns Hopkins. She didn't take those courses because they were not part of the BME curriculum even though as an engineering major there were tons of other sciences that she took. Most of my other friends who are in med school did not take them either, and they all had science or engineering backgrounds. So I guess I mean to say that even though someone completed a BS, it does not implicitly imply that he or she took those courses. I understand that this is not the majority, but I guess from the people I know this is the case.

 

[twester]

Why does pharmacy school have all these extra requirements? Anatomy and physiology, microbiology, genetics, biochem, etc.?

What about the rest of my post? Starsweet, you're only picking out the details you want to argue with and thinking this is intelligent discussion. You're going to be eaten alive in pharmacy school.

I'm going to try another approach. Starsweet, you are incorrect in your assertion.

Of the two schools I applied to (Colorado and Washington), both required microbiology. Colorado required one semester of A&P. Washington didn't care about A&P because it's in the first year of their curriculum. Washington required statistics, Colorado didn't.

I will now do a random sample of five schools and report my findings:

Kentucky - requires microbiology and one semester of A&P - not genetics, not biochem. Does require statistics. (http://www.mc.uky.edu/Pharmacy/acaffairs/preps_air.asp)

North Carolina - interesting set of requirements - foreign language (9 credit hours), a year of physics (like med school), statistics and analytical chem. From your list - NOT genetics, NOT biochem, ONE semester of A&P and NOT microbiology. ( http://www.pharmacy.unc.edu/admissions/pharmd/how-to-apply/prerequisites )

Pittsburgh - requires statistics - NOT A&P, physics, genetics, microbiology, or biochem. Wow, why didn't I apply there? ( http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu/progra...REQUISITERECORD2006forwebfinal5-31-05_001.pdf )

South Carolina - statistics and 1 yr of physics. NOT A&P, genetics, microbiology or biochem. ( http://sccp.sc.edu/students/prepharm/prereq.asp?LM=Students&ID=7 )

Iowa - does require A&P and microbiology and statistics. Does NOT require genetics or biochem. ( http://pharmacy.uiowa.edu/admissions/precourse.htm)

Now for two randomly selected medical schools:

Arkansas (it's random, I tell you) - they follow AAMC guidelines and strongly recommend (read - "We won't look at your app unless Granddad is alumna.") genetics, microbiology, embryology, histology, cell and molecular biology, near fluency in foreign language, extensive history courses. Makes me tired just typing it. ( http://www.uams.edu/com/comcat/2005pdfs/For_the_Medical_School_Applicant.pdf )

Orgeon - follows AAMC guidelines. Requires a BS with no particular major, but stresses the need for a "broad educational background".
( http://www.ohsu.edu/som/dean/md/admissions/requirements.shtml)


So it looks like medical school requirements are different (maybe less science driven in some ways). Pharmacy schools seem to generally agree that science should be the focus. Probably because most of us enter pharmacy school after only two years of undergrad. But the original post was clearly an exaggeration.

Troy

 

[starsweet]

Which assertion am I incorrect on? I actually agreed with everything you said in your previous post. Perhaps I should have said in my original post that pharmacy requires more science prereqs which for medical school are "strongly recommended." So, I apologize for the poor wording on my part. Usually when I say "prereqs" I don't really think of the "fluff" classes.

 

[MuraRX]

Since med schools require a BS degree the number of pre-reqs they specific is less. .

I've never heard that all med schools require a B.S. to get accepted. That is unique to the specific school. Some will accept students with B.A.s who have stellar gpa's and great MCATs.

As for the original question, I agree with the generalist vs specialist theory. In pharmacy school, they want you to have the general knowledge already so that you can begin learning the specialization of your future career immediately. If you think about it, that constitutes the basis for 6-year pharm programs; they have you take the "general" prereqs the first 2 years, then the "specialized" courses the last 4.

 

[sweetemo]

2nd

Then again...if optometrists expect to be called doctors then so should we.

 

[thestudent777]

I graduated from ucsd in 06 with an economics major. I've decided I want to go to pharmacy school but I am concerned due to my very low gpa (2.48). I am currently taking anatomy and physiology which are prereqs for nursing school which is what I want to fall back on in case I don't get in. I started as a bio major in college so I have completed calulus gchem physics and genbio as well as labs. I have straight As in the calc courses and straight Bs in all of the science classes (it was the economics classes that screwed up my gpa). I am confident that all the classes I will take from here on out will be As. I still have to take ochem and some other prereqs which I know I will get As in. Im taking these classes at a community college so it really isn't hard at all. Do u think I have a shot at an interview at ANY pharmacy school out there??

 

[desklamp]

Ok, I'll give you that. But please understand that a lot of people get into med school without taking those courses, even if they did a BS in a science related field (I'm not talking PE here). For example, my sister did her BS in Biomedical Engineering at Johns Hopkins. She didn't take those courses because they were not part of the BME curriculum even though as an engineering major there were tons of other sciences that she took. Most of my other friends who are in med school did not take them either, and they all had science or engineering backgrounds. So I guess I mean to say that even though someone completed a BS, it does not implicitly imply that he or she took those courses. I understand that this is not the majority, but I guess from the people I know this is the case.

Umm unless things have drastically changed since three years ago, Johns Hopkins required premeds to take biochemistry, a year of bio (so if you AP out of biology you still have to take a year of upper level bio lab) as well as writing courses, an allotted amount of humanities, etc. The only disparity that I've found as a Hopkins ex-pre-med graduate and the pharmacy requirements are Speech, Microbiology, and Anatomy/Physiology, which I assume A/P isn't required by pre-med students because their med school curriculum includes it. I have no idea about why microbiology is so important to pharmacists that you'd need an in depth course in it + a lab, and I have even less of an idea why all pharmacy schools don't include A/P in their curriculum (some pharm schools have it, so A/P isn't a pre-req), but I'm sure they have a good reason.

 

[PharMed2016]

Umm unless things have drastically changed since three years ago, Johns Hopkins required premeds to take biochemistry, a year of bio (so if you AP out of biology you still have to take a year of upper level bio lab) as well as writing courses, an allotted amount of humanities, etc. The only disparity that I've found as a Hopkins ex-pre-med graduate and the pharmacy requirements are Speech, Microbiology, and Anatomy/Physiology, which I assume A/P isn't required by pre-med students because their med school curriculum includes it. I have no idea about why microbiology is so important to pharmacists that you'd need an in depth course in it + a lab, and I have even less of an idea why all pharmacy schools don't include A/P in their curriculum (some pharm schools have it, so A/P isn't a pre-req), but I'm sure they have a good reason.

The reason you need micro is because as a pharmacist your going to have to have at least a basic understanding of microorganisms and which drugs are most effective in treating those microorganisms. For example, you as the pharmacist will hopefully not recommend to the doctor a beta-lactam for a gram negative infection. As for learning all the bugs that you can get, I think its less important than understanding their composition and methods of treatment.

Anyway, most pharmacy schools make it a pre-req because they don't have time to put it in their curriculum due to the limits of time even though there are three years of didactic learning. As for A+P (my school teaches this), I have mix feelings about this. I believe the anatomy is important but less so for a pharmacist since we will not be diagnosing diseases. Rather, I believe pharmacy schools should focus on the pathophysiology instead, learning about the body systems (more general sense) and how disease can arise from their disorder.

 

[PharMed2016]

I am not saying a bachelor degree makes you a better pharmacist but in the eyes of the public and probably other healthcare professionals the more schooling, the more prepared you are.

If it was a prereq to have a bachelors degree to get into pharm school you can weed out those not serious about the profession and those who want a fast track to 100K and a doctorate degree.
There are people who have phds in art and sociology who had to go to school for >6 years to get that degree. You would think a pharmD would require more schooling than those degrees wouldn't you?

The PharmD is a professional degree and not a Ph.D. These are completely two different degrees with two different goals. Also, I should stress that pharmacy is an entry-level degree, there is still more schooling ahead of you if you want to specialize. As for having a BS or BA, you have to remember its only been like 6-7 years since the transition from pharmacy being a undergraduate degree to professional, things need time to change. Many people of other professions still see it as a glorified bachelor degree. Pharmacy is evolving, taking on more responsibilities and in time so will the requirements change to reflect if they aren’t already heading there. Less than a century ago, pharmacy was a 2 year degree before transitioning into a 5 year degree (1950s) and now 2+4. Some schools are now also mandating residencies after graduation (Ohio State- 2 years mandatory residency) even though the majority are probably heading off to retail.

As for knowing enough... you can never know enough. Pharmacy along with any healthcare profession requires you to constantly learn and adapt to provide the best care to your patients. In time you will gain the knowledge to reflect the experience which will only you a better pharmacist.

 

[danisaur]

I graduated from ucsd in 06 with an economics major. I've decided I want to go to pharmacy school but I am concerned due to my very low gpa (2.48). I am currently taking anatomy and physiology which are prereqs for nursing school which is what I want to fall back on in case I don't get in. I started as a bio major in college so I have completed calulus gchem physics and genbio as well as labs. I have straight As in the calc courses and straight Bs in all of the science classes (it was the economics classes that screwed up my gpa). I am confident that all the classes I will take from here on out will be As. I still have to take ochem and some other prereqs which I know I will get As in. Im taking these classes at a community college so it really isn't hard at all. Do u think I have a shot at an interview at ANY pharmacy school out there??

Let's take thestuden777's situation as an example. Applying to med school would be more difficult (as it is much harder to get in), but it requires less pre-reqs to take. Applying to pharmacy school requires public speaking, humanities classes, an econ class (you probably have this already, but other non science majors wouldn't), more orgo, etc. A couple schools I was looking at a couple years ago even required 2 credits of gym class! WHYYYY? I really hope this has something to do with the difference in curriculum in professional school!

 

[desklamp]

The reason you need micro is because as a pharmacist your going to have to have at least a basic understanding of microorganisms and which drugs are most effective in treating those microorganisms. For example, you as the pharmacist will hopefully not recommend to the doctor a beta-lactam for a gram negative infection. As for learning all the bugs that you can get, I think its less important than understanding their composition and methods of treatment.

Anyway, most pharmacy schools make it a pre-req because they don't have time to put it in their curriculum due to the limits of time even though there are three years of didactic learning. As for A+P (my school teaches this), I have mix feelings about this. I believe the anatomy is important but less so for a pharmacist since we will not be diagnosing diseases. Rather, I believe pharmacy schools should focus on the pathophysiology instead, learning about the body systems (more general sense) and how disease can arise from their disorder.

Ahh i see. I feel better about having to take an extra Micro course now ^_^.

 

[yappy]

I think alot of it comes down to us not needing a BS/BA degree prior to starting the program.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I think alot of it comes down to us not needing a BS/BA degree prior to starting the program.

That can't be it, because you can compare schools like USC and UoP, for example. USC requires a Bachelor's degree for admission. UoP does not. Yet UoP's re-requisites are part and parcel less rigorous than USC's.

I think it's because medical school is different from pharmacy school. Yep, you read that right. Medical school and pharmacy school actually are not the same thing. Shocking, I know...

This doesn't even need to be discussed, does it? They're DIFFERENT.

 

[yappy]

A.) You're compairing two different pharm schools rather than pharm vs medical.
B.) No one is saying they're the same - one leads to an MD another to Pharm D. However; what you may not see is that they're very simular. There is a great amount of overlap in knowedge between the two. You need to know alot of the same science that is central to medicine and pharmacy.
C.) The logic in the last part of your post makes you seem foolish.