Why do you think so many people want to be doctors?

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Fritz

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Hi everyone,

While preparing for interviews I found this question:

"Why do you think so many people want to be doctors?"

My truthful answer would be that many people want to got into medicine because it is intellectually stimulating, makes you feel useful and also doctors make a lot of money. I have the feeling that if doctors only made 50 000 a year, the medical schools could not even fill their spaces for a given year.

But of course I cannot say this to the interviewer. So what can I say?

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Why do so MANY people WANT to become doctor?

Why because..

Mommy and Daddy pressured them into
Watched a lot of ER
Money
A respected position
Nothing better to think about doing

If doctors made only 50,000 dollars a year I think Medschool would still fill their spots, thought I think there would be far less applying and FAR less thinking about it.

If doctors made only 50,000 dollars a year and no one respected the degree. Expect that number to drop.

To choose an example I will probably get flayed for. Look at the military. People's respect on average these days is pretty low and the pay is pretty bad unless you're a General. So you don't get a high number of recruits, even in our time of need.

Now, when the military popularity reached soaring heights, look at the overwhelming applicants to join in what they believed in. The respect of wearing the uniform of a respected duty.
 
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I can't speak for every premed out there, but, personally, I picked medicine because I genuinely enjoy helping other$. Honest.
 
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Money. There are plenty of other careers that involve helping people but pay less. This whole altruistic philosophy is just garbage most people trick themselves into believing because they think that's how they're supposed to act to get in.

Like I said in the unOfficial SDN FAQ!, look at how many people stop all the voluneering/community service once they have that coveted acceptance letter. It just shows how much BS we're all full of.

NOBODY is altruistic, even the altruistic. There's always some intrinsic selfish reason people do the things they do, even if it is helping others. If helping someone makes person A feel good, then he's only helping people for the benefit of himself -- fulfilling his need to feel good.
 
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JKMD, you are what many would call an egoist. Just because you think all acts are inherently for one's own benefit, does not mean that others do not or have not argued otherwise. People can adhere to a variety of motivations other than self-improvement when they act. Look at Kant for example if you want to see a new perspective.
 
i think a lot of perfectionist/overachiever types choose medicine because it has the repuation of being the "hardest path" and they want to prove that they can handle it, be the best, etc. it's an ego thing for a lot of people. i think lots of people go into medicine simply because they are smart enough and if they chose something else, people might think they chickened out.
 
Having open-heart surgery in 1996 was the most difficult/painful event of my life and the one that motivated me to pursue medicine. For me, I see being a doctor as a way to dramatically change the lives of the people around me, just like my cardiologist and surgeon changed mine. Since my operation, I've been given a new chance at life and I find great personal meaning and joy in my choice to become a physician.

it's not about money, it's about motivation.
 
"Like I said in the unOfficial SDN FAQ!, look at how many people stop all the voluneering/community service once they have that coveted acceptance letter. It just shows how much BS we're all full of."

You really belive that? Im accepted, im still scheduled to spend a weekend at a childrens camp in nov the week before finals. And ill be at the week in summer that those same kids will be back.

Pshycological egoism is a crock of poop by the way.
 
So why not be an EMT or Paramedic instead? Or a PA? Or a Nurse? Or a high school counselor? Or a freedom fighter?

All of these match the same criteria you just described.


And to the person who's still volunteering and thinks he's a true altruist, your volunteering still benefits you in some way. "pride, pleasure, satisfaction", whatever are all consequences of your actions that benefit YOU. The benefit of the children is secondary to your self-fulfillment.

I'm sure you have also convinced yourself that you're doing the work for the sole purpose of the childrens' benefit, but you're not. Every premed does this; e all trick ourselves into thinking we're the iconic physician-to-be.

I study martial arts, I carry a gun. I work out and condition myself. Why? So I can fight for and protect others. Why? For their benefit? Secondarily yes, but primarily because it gives me a sense of purpose greater than myself. Relatively, that can either be noble and self-sacrificing, or selfish.

The consequences may be self-beneficial, which seems very similar to psychology egoism. However, most of us don't say, "Hey, I'm gonna help feed the poor because it will make me feel better when I'm done." We don't consider the consequences before the actions, we only consider the implications of our actions, "the smelly homeless guy will have a full tummy before he leaves to smoke more crack, so he will be happy."

However, the motivations of our actions may be influenced by the "subconscious" (I use that term loosely) consequences of making the homeless guy happy. Ergo, we feel happy.

I'll finish this later, I have to run to class.
 
We're all social deviants. When you get into med school you'll see what I mean.
 
JKDMed-

You should know that the difference between being a PA or a social worker and a MD is that there's more responsibility and challenge in being a physician and most people going to med school are the types that will thrive in that kind of situation.

Like many people I've considered PA, PT, NP, but I'd be bored after a while and probably want to be a doctor anyway. Also, there is something to be said for those of us that want to provide leadership within the medical profession and try to shape healthcare policy, medical education, etc...And it's more fitting for MD's to lead the way in that regard. Besides, as a MD, you can be your own boss....Maybe you wouldn't mind having to answer to someone else all day long, but I would.
 
I know what the differences are, it was a hypothetical.

What about other careers that aren't in medicine, but that maintain the possiblity of shaping the course of someone's life?

It also sounds like your main reason for choosing MD over the others is your desire to be "top dog", "the shot caller", and in a position of power.

No offense, but the fact that you "had major surgery and the skills of the doctor's changed my life" blah blah blah sounds very convenient and stereotypical.
 
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If you want to make a lot of money, then there are a variety of other professions which offer much greater potential for financial rewards. Become a businessperson or a lawyer and you could potentially make much more than a doctor.

Besides, many people literally give their lives to the practice of medicine. Look at the people who go abroad to practice medicine in war zones for example. They may experience personal satisfaction in doing so but objectively speaking, they are sacrificing themselves for the sake of others.
 
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Originally posted by JKDMed


NOBODY is altruistic, even the altruistic. There's always some intrinsic selfish reason people do the things they do, even if it is helping others. If helping someone makes person A feel good, then he's only helping people for the benefit of himself -- fulfilling his need to feel good.

Sorry, but I must disagree. I'm a professional Firefighter/Paramedic right now, and I've met many firefighters from around the country. I have to say that as a breed these are the most altrustic people you will ever come across. They willingly put their life on the line every day they go to work. To use an oft cited example..... 9/11/2001.
 
JKDMed,

Just curious, when interviewers ask/asked you why you want to be a doctor, what are you going to/did say? "I'm doing it for the money?" "I wanna help myself?" Come on, there has to be a bigger motivation than that.

Fritz,

That's a great example.
 
Can't speak for others but my reason is due to personal motivation from the horrible illness and tragic death of my very dear friend from Ovarian cancer.
 
People are motivated to act in an altruistic fashion for a number of reasons. Maybe it's for some personal satisfaction, enjoyment, respect, pride, etc., maybe it fits into a notion of virtue, a matter of maximizing good consequences, making rational choices, etc. The bottom line is that I do not think it is fair or correct to extrapolate on how volunteering makes one person feel and to impose those motivating reasons on others. It's equally unfair to assume that because firefighters risk their lives on a daily basis that they are all altruistic. People are often irrational. They may have miscalculated that the anticipated estime the job brings outweighs the potential for them to not be around to indulge in it. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe there is some overarching principle that governs 'Why do people volunteer', but motivation seems too closely tied to circumstance to pick out a reason in particular.
 
Why a medical degree is in such high demand:

MD/DO = $100,000/yr min.

The poorest 10% of Americans earn more income than two-thirds of the world population.

You do the math... :cool:

By signing the contract you become one among the richest in the world. :eek:
 
Maybe it sounds sterotypical or cliched, but my medical experiences have shaped my life, which I think is a wonderful thing! That doesn't mean that they are the only/biggest reasons I'm going into medicine. In fact, if a school accepted me simply because my surgeries have motivated me to be a doctor, I'd be worried...I could attach a copy of my PS, but I'll refrain.

And you make "having power" sound like such a bad thing. I'd like the "power" or ability to dictate what happens in my profession and in my personal life and to my children. Is there something wrong with that!? If you are suggesting that in order to be a true, genuine, altruistic physician that we all need to drop everything else we care about and think only of being servants to the others around us? I don't think that's what you're saying, but I'm having trouble seeing the point you're trying to make by suggesting that wanting to be a "top dog" is so inherently bad! Also, being your own boss doesn't mean that you get to boss everyone else around (if that what you were inferring with the "top dog" bit). Medicine need physician leaders. I'd like to be one of them.

Anyway, I don't know why I'm going to such lengths to defend my motivations or thoughts. What about you? Why medicine? Do you think it's possible to balance "wanting the best for others" and "wanting the best for yourself?" How are you sure you want to be a doctor (assuming that being 100% sure is possible to being with)?
 
Originally posted by jmwalker
We're all social deviants. When you get into med school you'll see what I mean.

so true. unfortunately.
 
How can you explain the competitive residencies then? Is it really a coincidence that the most competitive specialties are also the ones with the highest pay and lowest hours? Nope.

Why do I want to enter medicine? I like the interdisciplinary subject matter, I like the work, I like the academic challenge, and I like to help people. Probably the same garbage every adcom hears. Is this *really* why I want to do it? I don't know, maybe it's just what I have convinced myself into thinking.


Being "top dog" isn't bad in itself, but if that is a motivating factor for choosing the physician route instead of nurse, PA, whatever then you're not really doing that because you really want to help others. You're just doing it to satiate your need for power and control.
 
Originally posted by donnyfire
Sorry, but I must disagree. I'm a professional Firefighter/Paramedic right now, and I've met many firefighters from around the country. I have to say that as a breed these are the most altrustic people you will ever come across. They willingly put their life on the line every day they go to work. To use an oft cited example..... 9/11/2001.

Aren't they just doing their job? They could be fulfilling their need for taking risks and adventure. Plenty of other careers put one's life on the line, but yet aren't for the benefit of someone else.
 
I really did not want to transform this thread into a big argument about why people are going into medicine. Although, everyone has their own reasons for wanting to pursue a medical career, many of the people going into medicine do so for the money involved, and also for job security. If you live somewhere else other than California ? Bay Area, you can have a very comfortable life as family practice doctor.
If you live in the Bay Area and you are a family practice doctor making 100000 a year you are really in financial trouble. As I was driving last night home from work, I heard the last report, a family in the Bay Area has to make about 100000 a year to be able to buy a decent home. That being said if the doctor was unlucky enough to go to private school, because he could not get into his state school, he will probably have somewhere around 180000 ? 200000 in loans. Factoring in the cost of living, I don?t think a family practice doctor here would have the same living standards as a family practice doctor in Texas for example. So if the cost of living was so high all over the US, I don?t know how many of the people applying today at medical school would want to be family practice doctors. These are just my observations.

But coming back to my question, I wanted to know what could one tell the interviewer about ?why so many people want to be doctors? without sounding stupid.

Thanks.

And please people, stop with things like "if you want to make money you are going to go into bussiness, or be a lawyer, or something else". Compare how many lawyers make 35000/year and how many doctors make the same amount.
At my company when the CEO changed, there were new policies put in place and half of the patent lawyers were laid off. Many of them could not find another job after that, and they are not stupid. This happened about 1 year ago. Some of them are still out of a job, others had to settle for low paid jobs.
My questions is how many doctors did you see laid off?
I am telling you, aside of being a professor tenured at an university or a doctor, there is really no profession to give you job security, unless you are at the top, making millions in bonuses.
 
Originally posted by JKDMed
Aren't they just doing their job? They could be fulfilling their need for taking risks and adventure. Plenty of other careers put one's life on the line, but yet aren't for the benefit of someone else.

JKDMed, you make good ponts. I would love to continue this discussion, but I don't want to steal Fritz's thread.
I will say that I have the feeling you don't know many firefighters, but I'll stop at that.
 
I'm not denying that people don't go into medicine because of the money involved - generally speaking, people are attracted to high paying, high status positions.

That said, if you want to become rich, you can become much more rich as a businessperson or a lawyer. Doctors have much more stability in terms of income and job security but they don't have nearly as much earning potential as some other professions. The prospect of making millions or billions of dollars is enough to entice many people into business or law.

Also you can do well as a businessperson by ripping people off, committing fraud, laying off employees, essentially helping yourself by screwing over other people. I don't think you could ever be a good doctor if you possessed such a value system. You may be benefitting personally by getting the satisfaction of helping others, but I would argue that doctors are much more likely to derive that type of satisfaction than businesspeople or corporate lawyers, for example.
 
I'd just like to thank whoever it was that retorted the first person that said to go into business or law to make money. If you truly think this, please don't go to med school b/c you dont have alot of sense. Look at the numbers. Almost any doctor you can find makes at least 100k. PhD's average abotu 80k a year and the engineers are the ones bringing that number up. If you are a CEO or happen to land a class-action case then sure, you make alot more than a doctor. Other than that?
 
Originally posted by donnyfire
JKDMed, you make good ponts. I would love to continue this discussion, but I don't want to steal Fritz's thread.
I will say that I have the feeling you don't know many firefighters, but I'll stop at that.

My dad is a firefighter/EMT. I have spent my life around him and his friends from the station.

This, "go into business or law" argument is just garbage the holier than thou people like to throw around. In medicine, you are almost GUARANTEED a position paying $100k+ per year. In business or law you are not. A private practice physician has insane earning potential with less risk than that of a corporate CEO or entrepreneur. Sure, the CEO can make billions, but how many actually accomplish that? It's much more difficult to become a multi-millionaire than a physician.

Why go through all the trouble and risks of a CEO/attorney when you can just study hard, float through all the bull****, and get into medical school?

Yes, I said bull****. We all know at least 3/4 of this process is bull****. Good grades? Good MCAT? So what, none of that matters. The only thing that matters is who reviews your applicatoin and what kind of mood they are in.

Volunteering? So what, we all do it and we all hate it -- waste of time. "Clinical exposure?" So what, we don't learn anything we can't read out of a book or be told by someone else. Motivation to enter medicine? We all trick ourselves into some fabricated story or return to some long-ago life experience and say, "Hey! Maybe that's why I want to enter medicine", even though we never associated the two until after we began to search for the motivation.

So we all enter medicine because of money, power, or both. But we all trick ourselves into thinking we do it for another reason, because who's gonna tell an adcom, "Hey! I'm doing it for money and power!"

Show me one doctor -- ONE -- who will give up his mercedes, $300,000 home, stop wearing clothes from expensive retailers, then take his $200,000 per year salary, give himself $40,000 of it, and donate the rest to charities.
 
And there is the key of life. All summed up/:) :) :)
 
Some people are willing to take on massive risks just because of the possibility of acquiring ridiculous amounts of wealth. If you want to be in that top .0000001% of incomes, then medicine is not for you. You may not be willing to go through all of the risks associated with trying to be a multimillionaire CEO or something, but there are plenty of people who harbor such ambitions and act accordingly.
 
Originally posted by JKDMed
....Show me one doctor -- ONE -- who will give up his mercedes, $300,000 home, stop wearing clothes from expensive retailers, then take his $200,000 per year salary, give himself $40,000 of it, and donate the rest to charities.

Patch Adams
 
My aunt is an OB/GYN in NJ. She sacrificed much of her own personal wealth and status in taking care of my mother and her sisters as new immigrants here in America. My aunt came here first in the mid 70s and without the free healthcare she gave to my parents and my other aunts and uncles, there is no way in hell we would have been in the same position we are in today.
 
Just those few examples are enough to give me inspiration to always put people over profit
 
Guilt - over what? Even if that were the case, there would be virtually no way to verify that statement. One could take any action and come up with some way to make it seem like there is some sort of self interest involved.

That said, what about Patch Adams? He could easily be making beaucoup bucks but he gave it all up to serve the poor. He certainly isn't in it for the money.
 
a sense of duty, a little different from guilt and just straight up compassion for others, should be considered a motivating factor also
 
Everything, regardless of motivation, can be traced back to some personal emotion. I help you because if I don't I will feel guilty, so I spare myself the guilt. I help you because helping people makes me feel good. etc. etc.
 
Then are we like animals, guided only by emotions? Aren't we capable of going beyond our emotions and doing the right thing?
 
Originally posted by JKDMed
My dad is a firefighter/EMT. I have spent my life around him and his friends from the station.


My apologies then.
 
Originally posted by bigbaubdi
If you want to make a lot of money, then there are a variety of other professions which offer much greater potential for financial rewards. Become a businessperson or a lawyer and you could potentially make much more than a doctor.

Besides, many people literally give their lives to the practice of medicine. Look at the people who go abroad to practice medicine in war zones for example. They may experience personal satisfaction in doing so but objectively speaking, they are sacrificing themselves for the sake of others.

The "become a businessman" path is a huge fallacy. Sure, maybe 1 in 1000 follow that path and get rich, but most don't. If you work for a company, they'll always keep your pay down. You're an employee, not an owner. The only way you move up in management is if your boss quits or dies, or if his boss quits or dies and you both shift up (sad but true). You CAN make a bunch of money in law, but only if you become a partner. Maybe 1 in 10 get to be a partner. For the other 9, the answer is NO.
 
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/news/news_stories/pentstruck19.html

I would have to finally say that I don't really believe in egoism. I think some people really do help others. Just look at 9/11 and WW2, and things such as above that continue to happen.

I do, however, think you can't really say you're "altruistic" or "compassionate" until you have considered the alternative motives.
 
I think JKDMed nailed it, people want only money and prestige, and why shouldn't they? If you work for it, you deserve it.

Oh yeah, there are more people in law school right now than there are lawyers practicing law. My buddy who is trying to get into pharmacy said that lawyers in their 30's are some of his competition.

A Business major isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as a doctor as far as income goes. You'll have to become a CEO to make more moeny than doctors. Even upper management makes I'd say 100K to 150K TOPS and that takes several years to get to and probably an MBA. About as long if not longer than becoming a doctor.

Finally, becoming a doctor isn't the hardest path academically. There are much harder fields than medicine.
 
People dont want only money and prestige, thats rediculous. Many are interested in medicine because it facinates them and excites them as a profession. This has nothing to do with money or altruism even.
 
sadly, i think there is something even more deeply freudian than egoism. the position doctors recieve in society is way overblown- possibly by the media because they make such great protagonists and possibly by popular culture making them out to be sexually desirable (a status many a male premed would kill for).

they're highly trained technicians.

I know far too many people who see medicine not as a career but as a panacea for greater problems in the rest of their lives.
Anecdotally (is that a word?) 90% of my honors intro chem class was premed (back before the days of mcats and sdn, ah the memories) and i wouldnt trust a damn one of them to perscribe me pepto bismol. i think we need a sea change in how medicine is precieved if our generation's doctors hope to fill the shoes of those who've come before us.
flame away
ryan
 
$$$$$, social status, and they don't know what they're getting into. also parents on certain backgrounds put unreasonable expectations on their children to pressure them into medicine, engineering and/or law because they're prestigious.
 
$$$$$, social status, and they don't know what they're getting into. also parents on certain backgrounds put unreasonable expectations on their children to pressure them into medicine, engineering and/or law because they're prestigious.

I couldn't stress this enough
 
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