Why does AMSA...

[Tristero]

Why does AMSA fail to look after the interests if the people it was created for?

Are there any alternatives to AMSA that aren't socialist, liberal propaganda machines that I can start at my medical school? So many students here join AMSA because of the lack of a better alternative.

Plus, they offer a free Netters with every membership. What a f_cking scam. Most of the students I have spoken to (and some officers!) don't even know AMSA positions on socialized medicine, gay marriage, etc etc.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[doc05]

join the AMA-MSS. screw amsa.

 

[ktat72]

You should definitely look into the AMA - there are a lot of issues that are debated at the national conventions. Plus, the conventions are a great way to meet others.

 

[doogiehowserfan]

Most of the students I have spoken to (and some officers!) don't even know AMSA positions on socialized medicine, gay marriage, etc etc.

could you elaborate on this? what is AMSA's position on gay marriage, etc??
i'm curious

 

[Tristero]

could you elaborate on this? what is AMSA's position on gay marriage, etc??
i'm curious

AMSA supports an overtly liberal agenda. They have firmly stated that they oppose the gay marriage amendment, which would ban gay marriages.

I personally also oppose the gay marriage amendment. But there is no reason why a medical students organization should be taking a position on such an issue.

They also use their resources (which they get from med students like me and you) to lobby for such issues like resident hour restrictions and the regulation of drug companies. I'm all for better hours and proper regulation of pharmaceuticals, but there are much more pressing issues, like med malpractice, turf wars from non-MD/DO fields who want to expand their scope of practice while bypassing the strict standards of a proper medical education.

AMSA does nothing. In fact, they OPPOSED tort reform because they are so obsessed with socializing medicine. They need to look after the future of doctors, but they don't. In short, they suck. If you want to know more, search for a thread called AMSA - do you know what you're supporting.

-Tristero

 

[dgmedic]

I believe that OSUdoc08...a member here on the boards is a chapter president...ask him.

 

[SexyLexie729]

Is there is a better organization that looks after the interests of med students specifically? If not, lets start one. If AMSA is heading the wrong direction, the best thing to do is to be vocal and inform everyone. Thank you Tristero for bringing this up.

 

[carrigallen]

Well, I think AMA-MSS is more conservative and less idealistic, but at least they support physician issues. Their political arm is AMPAC. In contrast, AMSA is a more left-wing group that is more for wealthy, idealistic students.

AMSA people argue that the AMA-MSS is purely self-interested, whereas the AMA people argue that AMSA is shooting itself in the foot.

 

[Tristero]

In contrast, AMSA is a more left-wing group that is more for wealthy, idealistic students.

I see the iddealistic, but not the wealthy. To me, it seems rather counterintuitive. In my personal experience, almost allof the wealthy med students I know don't like AMSA. And just to have some sort of a standard, by wealthy, I mean kids who won't be paying any loans after med school. Then again, my experience ishighly subjective.

 

[Tristero]

Is there is a better organization that looks after the interests of med students specifically? If not, lets start one. If AMSA is heading the wrong direction, the best thing to do is to be vocal and inform everyone. Thank you Tristero for bringing this up.

The AMA is fairly active but I think the time is ripe to start an organization that is heavily motivated to lobby for med student and doctors interests. The AMA is doing some of the work, but compared to other lobbying groups (such as the trial lawyer's association), they're pretty ineffective.

We should start something. Med students would join in huge numbers, especially once we exposed AMSA for the scam it really is. AMSA thinks making a good living and preserving the prestige of medicine are incompatible with providing affordable, ethical, quality healthcare. This masochistic idea needs to change--No other profession would stand for a similar degradation that medicine has endured.

And socialized medicine isn't the answer. It isn't good for the patients or the doctors--but I'll stop there. This thread is about instituting change, not debating the effectiveness of the US healthcare system vs. socialist models.

 

[lindyloohoo]

I was one of those people who didn't really know what AMSA was supporting recently until I made it my business to find out. It was cool in undergrad but since has gotten too liberal. I was a chapter officer last year (mainly because our group at school was on our own agenda and we were doing good things). The emails that chapter officers get encouraging your school to do this liberal stuff was ridiculous. Half way through the year, I took my name off the listserve so I wasn't bothered with their hocus-pocus BS anymore. I have since written an email to the membership technically resigning my membership.

 

[Mongo]

Ever thought to think that the majority of people our age actually are liberal??? Maybe AMSA actually is representing their constituants.

 

[LukeWhite]

AMSA also "condemned" the ban on partial birth abortion. Liberal or not, I have a hard time believing that the majority of medical students are so ignorant of embryology that they agree with AMSA that there's a right to electively kill an eight-month-and-change fetus.

It's pure and simple patronage--med students get a Netter's and something to put on the residency app, while a small cabal of activists get the chance to claim to speak in the name of thousands of med students while pursuing goals largely irrelevant or antagonistic to good medicine.

Unfortunately, by the time people figure this out they've already paid their Netter-money. It's good that threads like this are spreading the word at the beginning of the school year--one chapter president on the osteopathic board is on record as claiming, contrary to all reason and documentation, that AMSA "has no policies." What hope for impressionable first-years when chapter presidents themselves are unaware of AMSA's basic aims?

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

Ever thought to think that the majority of people our age actually are liberal??? Maybe AMSA actually is representing their constituants.

If this were true, the members would be consulted prior to the organization taking a stance. For example, a vote or survey would be used to guage the feelings of the contituants. I've never heard of such a thing happening, and the agenda they are putting forth is not flexible. They choose leaders based upon their ability to forward the agenda rather than allowing the agenda to be changed by a new, freely elected leader.

The AMSA claims to be an organization for all medical students, supporting that role, when in fact it is a political machine trying to recruit members into their already-formed (liberal) ideology.

From their web page, www.amsa.org/about/

"AMSA is a student-governed, non-profit organization committed to representing the concerns of physicians-in-training."

This sounds like it should be an unbiased group representing their members. Yet on the same page they indicate their already formulated "strategic priorities", such as socializing medicine and promoting affirmative action. Thus, the AMSA is not an unbiased group - they are a political organization.

It should be treated as such. I don't care if they advance their agenda or not, so long as they don't lie about the organization to those they are trying to recruit. Which is what they are, in fact, doing - by stating that they are trying to represent the students, of which a large percentage are conservative. They do not represent the conservative minority in any form at all.

In effect, it is a "one party democracy" - by nature a contradiction in terms.

 

[Tristero]

If this were true, the members would be consulted prior to the organization taking a stance. For example, a vote or survey would be used to guage the feelings of the contituants. I've never heard of such a thing happening, and the agenda they are putting forth is not flexible. They choose leaders based upon their ability to forward the agenda rather than allowing the agenda to be changed by a new, freely elected leader.

The AMSA claims to be an organization for all medical students, supporting that role, when in fact it is a political machine trying to recruit members into their already-formed (liberal) ideology.

From their web page, www.amsa.org/about/

"AMSA is a student-governed, non-profit organization committed to representing the concerns of physicians-in-training."

This sounds like it should be an unbiased group representing their members. Yet on the same page they indicate their already formulated "strategic priorities", such as socializing medicine and promoting affirmative action. Thus, the AMSA is not an unbiased group - they are a political organization.

It should be treated as such. I don't care if they advance their agenda or not, so long as they don't lie about the organization to those they are trying to recruit. Which is what they are, in fact, doing - by stating that they are trying to represent the students, of which a large percentage are conservative. They do not represent the conservative minority in any form at all.

In effect, it is a "one party democracy" - by nature a contradiction in terms.

Exactly, it's a scam, plain and simple. I'm going to change that.

 

[skiz knot]

... But there is no reason why a medical students organization should be taking a position on such an issue...

Well they are committed to bringing healthcare to as many americans as possible. If you have to be recognized as a legal spouse to get quality medical insurance, then they would be likely to oppose a constitutional amendment to a gay marriage ban, which effectively would squelch many initiatives for domestic partner registries and benefits.

 

[SexyLexie729]

Tristero,
If you are interested in starting an organization PM me. Have a great day.

 

[heldicus]

our chapter president told us that if we joined, we would have a voice, and therefore could work to change AMSA from within.

I joined for the Netters, and the discounts. I know that's a lousy reason, but...well...med students are an easily manipulated population. We're poor, and we're faced with buying a lot of books and equipment. It's sort of like doing research on a prison population...if an ethics IRB had to "approve" AMSA's practices...they would be shut down.

 

[Slaol]

The Benjamin Rush Society is a good organization for those who wish to support freedom from Government involvement in Health Care.

It was founded on the principles of Benjamin Rush, one of the founding fathers who was instrumental in the first constitutional convention. In the records of the proceedings, he is quoted as saying the following:

"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution the time will come when medicine will organize itself into an undercover dictatorship. To restrict the art of healing to doctors and deny equal privileges to others will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic."
— Dr. Benjamin Rush

​

For more information, CLICK HERE.

 

[JokerMD]

sdf

 

[VoiceofReason]

just dropped in to say that the op is ******ed and terrible

*parkours out of thread*

 

[Kalyx]

If you have to be recognized as a legal spouse to get quality medical insurance, then they would be likely to oppose a constitutional amendment to a gay marriage ban, which effectively would squelch many initiatives for domestic partner registries and benefits.

Yup! You hit a big issue, here.

OP, I can understand your frustration with an organization that superficially seems to be a basic lobbying group for students, yet ultimately supports policies mostly based on one end of the political spectrum. However, as others have pointed out, the intentions behind that are good: how do you increase access to health care? How do you ensure that those coming from poor and marginalized backgrounds are not failed by the system? I think it's always a benefit to include a variety of views that put forth answers to those questions. Socialized medicine is just one example of something that may or may not solve that (and by the way, we already HAVE socialized medicine in the U.S... check out the Veterans Health Administration + all active duty military healthcare facilities). It's also great to hear views from more conservative voices on how smaller, independent practices can work to achieve that goal and I agree it's obnoxious that a supposedly broad-based organization would exclude those perspectives.

With regards to supporting gay marriage, that isn't exactly solely a "liberal" ideal. Many people understandably have different views on gay marriage vs. civil unions etc., but I would hope that as someone (presumably) in the medical field you would care about your patients' mental health and access to care. This isn't simply a political issue; it's also one of benefits and mental and physical health. So how can we reconcile an opposition to gay marriage with wanting our LGBTQ patients to lead good, healthy lives that are free from the detriments of discrimination?

No one here is obviously going to change your opinion on gay marriage, but I hope that you're able to answer the question above so that you can adequately care for your patients someday who are LGBTQ.

~Kalyx

 

[Slaol]

http://www.aapsonline.org/

Membership is free for medical students.

 

[Smurfette]

just dropped in to say that the op is ******ed and terrible

*parkours out of thread*

FYI, this is a 7 year old thread that got bumped. I'm sure the OP has discovered other organizations that are more aligned to his/her goals by now...since they could very well be an attending already.

 

[Kalyx]

FYI, this is a 7 year old thread that got bumped. I'm sure the OP has discovered other organizations that are more aligned to his/her goals by now...since they could very well be an attending already.

Thank you! Damn, it's so easy to miss the dates on these posts!


~Kalyx

 

[Frozen]

FYI, this is a 7 year old ... I'm sure the OP has discovered other organizations that are more aligned to his/her goals by now..

Like the KKK?

 

[TheRach1025]

There's always the Ayn Rand Medical Student Society. It's motto: "Physician, heal thyself...and no one else. If they want healing they should have had the good sense to go to medical school."

 

[Untraditional]

Aaps http://www.aapsonline.org

 

[Laryngophed]

Like the KKK?

 

[patel2]

Aaps http://www.aapsonline.org

i generally support most of what AAPS stands for (if not all), and frequently read the articles. Though it seems the journal they put out has some pretty absurd claims about medicine, but I suppose none of the controversial stuff in JPandS is the official position of the organization, but just a reflection that they pretty much let any conspiracy theorist contribute to the journal...

 

[Longshanks]

There's always the Ayn Rand Medical Student Society. It's motto: "Physician, heal thyself...and no one else. If they want healing they should have had the good sense to go to medical school."

I lol'd.

Ironically, Ayn Rand is the gift that doesn't stop giving, when you're in the mood for a laugh.

 

[UAAWolf]

Why does AMSA fail to look after the interests if the people it was created for?

Are there any alternatives to AMSA that aren't socialist, liberal propaganda machines that I can start at my medical school? So many students here join AMSA because of the lack of a better alternative.

Plus, they offer a free Netters with every membership. What a f_cking scam. Most of the students I have spoken to (and some officers!) don't even know AMSA positions on socialized medicine, gay marriage, etc etc.

Please don't get me started on AMSA....I've avoided organizations like that. It is primarily a liberal group and does not really benefit the student at all.

 

[VenusinFurs]

How does AMA help the student? And how does AMA not tend to support a particular ideology? Politics in medicine is going to split along party lines. OP was a big silly.

 

[yamaraja808]

How does AMA help the student? And how does AMA not tend to support a particular ideology? Politics in medicine is going to split along party lines. OP was a big silly.

Yes, I would like an answer to this as well.

Also it doesn't feel like the organization has gone out of their away to help bring better access to care in rural areas (in the US I mean).

 

[psychforme]

There's always the Ayn Rand Medical Student Society. It's motto: "Physician, heal thyself...and no one else. If they want healing they should have had the good sense to go to medical school."

I predict 260+ usmle score!!!

 

[Perrotfish]

The Benjamin Rush Society is a good organization for those who wish to support freedom from Government involvement in Health Care.

It was founded on the principles of Benjamin Rush, one of the founding fathers who was instrumental in the first constitutional convention. In the records of the proceedings, he is quoted as saying the following:

"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution the time will come when medicine will organize itself into an undercover dictatorship. To restrict the art of healing to doctors and deny equal privileges to others will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic."
— Dr. Benjamin Rush

​

For more information, CLICK HERE.

When this organization (and the aaps, and the aapp) supports 'keeping the government out of health care' I assume they also support getting rid of government licensing standards for medicine? You know, the thing that keeps cheaper practicioners from flooding the market and making my diploma as worthless as a 4th tier law school degree? Just like when Benjamin Rush practiced? We'll go back to letting anyone buy any drug they want from the local apothacary, right? No more perscription pads! Free market for all!

Oh wait, no. They still want the government to guarentee that they're the only ones who can practice without getting charged with a felony. Heck, they even want the government to give them special protections from lawsuits, passing tort reform that creates special procedures and caps for lawsuits against physicians that don't exist for lawsuits against any other business. However they then want to operate in an enviornment where the government, after smoothing out all of the problems presented by a free market, expects nothing in return and allows them to cater to the most lucrative, wealthy clients they can find, cash up front. How patriotic of them.

The funny thing is that the quote given above is actually an argument against medical licensing, which is an issue the actual organization never mentions on their website (which is 90% a rant against Obama's healthcare plan and 10% support for the Ryan plan)

 

[achamess]

For the reasons stated by the OP and others, I didn't want to affiliate with AMSA or AMA. I didn't think either organization represented my perspectives on medicine. I started a chapter of the Benjamin Rush Society. at my school. I've been very happy so far and we've done several events and talks that have been educational and thought-provoking. If AMSA and AMA can exist and promote their ideological positions, so should Benjamin Rush and any other group that wants to.

 

[gujuDoc]

Why does AMSA fail to look after the interests if the people it was created for?

Are there any alternatives to AMSA that aren't socialist, liberal propaganda machines that I can start at my medical school? So many students here join AMSA because of the lack of a better alternative.

Plus, they offer a free Netters with every membership. What a f_cking scam. Most of the students I have spoken to (and some officers!) don't even know AMSA positions on socialized medicine, gay marriage, etc etc.

Student portion of AMA is the alternative.

Nevermind I don't want to offend anyone so I'll refrain from what I had to say.

 

[cbrons]

Well, I think AMA-MSS is more conservative and less idealistic, but at least they support physician issues. Their political arm is AMPAC. In contrast, AMSA is a more left-wing group that is more for wealthy, idealistic students.

AMSA people argue that the AMA-MSS is purely self-interested, whereas the AMA people argue that AMSA is shooting itself in the foot.

I still have major problems with the AMA. I joined AAPS, which is much more in line with my personal philosophy/political beliefs. You should check it out...

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

 

[ArcGurren]

Who f***ing cares. If people have issues with things like same-sex marriage in this day and age they're completely and miserably out of touch with reality.

 

[DermViser]

AMSA supports an overtly liberal agenda. They have firmly stated that they oppose the gay marriage amendment, which would ban gay marriages.

I personally also oppose the gay marriage amendment. But there is no reason why a medical students organization should be taking a position on such an issue.

They also use their resources (which they get from med students like me and you) to lobby for such issues like resident hour restrictions and the regulation of drug companies. I'm all for better hours and proper regulation of pharmaceuticals, but there are much more pressing issues, like med malpractice, turf wars from non-MD/DO fields who want to expand their scope of practice while bypassing the strict standards of a proper medical education.

AMSA does nothing. In fact, they OPPOSED tort reform because they are so obsessed with socializing medicine. They need to look after the future of doctors, but they don't. In short, they suck. If you want to know more, search for a thread called AMSA - do you know what you're supporting.

-Tristero

 

[pilotjoe]

Nice bump on a comment posted ten years ago.

 

[AsclepiusMD]

AMSA supports an overtly liberal agenda. They have firmly stated that they oppose the gay marriage amendment, which would ban gay marriages.

I personally also oppose the gay marriage amendment. But there is no reason why a medical students organization should be taking a position on such an issue.

They also use their resources (which they get from med students like me and you) to lobby for such issues like resident hour restrictions and the regulation of drug companies. I'm all for better hours and proper regulation of pharmaceuticals, but there are much more pressing issues, like med malpractice, turf wars from non-MD/DO fields who want to expand their scope of practice while bypassing the strict standards of a proper medical education.

AMSA does nothing. In fact, they OPPOSED tort reform because they are so obsessed with socializing medicine. They need to look after the future of doctors, but they don't. In short, they suck. If you want to know more, search for a thread called AMSA - do you know what you're supporting.

-Tristero

Pot, I would like you to meet my friend, kettle.

 

[username456789]

Pot, I would like you to meet my friend, kettle.

You either don't understand what that phrase means, didn't read what that poster said, or both.

Also that user posted his/her comment 10 years ago.

 

[DermViser]

Pot, I would like you to meet my friend, kettle.

How is what he said a pot meet kettle argument? He said he doesn't believe in the amendment to ban gay marriage but feels a medical organization shouldn't waste its time making a position on that issue bc it doesn't relate at all to medicine.

Of course, with things like this: http://www.amsa.org/amsa/homepage/t...ort_of_Single_Payer_Legislation_Illinois.aspx, it's any wonder that students feel AMSA is complete crock that doesn't support actual med students.

 

[Essee]

How is what he said a pot meet kettle argument? He said he doesn't believe in the amendment to ban gay marriage but feels a medical organization shouldn't waste its time making a position on that issue bc it doesn't relate at all to medicine.

Of course, with things like this: http://www.amsa.org/amsa/homepage/t...ort_of_Single_Payer_Legislation_Illinois.aspx, it's any wonder that students feel AMSA is complete crock that doesn't support actual med students.

Well if you read their mission...

The American Medical Student Association is committed to improving health care and health care delivery to all people; promoting active improvement in medical education; involving its members in the social, moral and ethical obligations of the profession of medicine; assisting in the improvement and understanding of world health problems; contributing to the welfare of medical students, premedical students, interns, residents and post-MD/DO trainees; and advancing the profession of medicine.

They have an emphasis on medical student social activism. Their sole purpose isn't just representing medical student interests.

 

[supermario21]

For what its worth, it seems like many of us on the right withdrawing from these organized medicine societies has not only had the effect of their membership declining (AMA/ACP, etc), but it has also turned them all into loony left wing organizations. Check out the ACP blog, they have some Bob Doherty hired to do advocacy for the group (not a physician, mind you) and he's out on his twitter and his blog trumpeting single payer, trying to troll conservatives, and reacting to the Hobby Lobby decision with far-left hysteria...

 

[AsclepiusMD]

My post was meant to reflect the fact that if one believes in a certain cause/sentiment/value, that it is hypocrisy to criticize another entity, be it a person or group of persons, for holding those same sentiments.

 

[username456789]

My post was meant to reflect the fact that if one believes in a certain cause/sentiment/value, that it is hypocrisy to criticize another entity, be it a person or group of persons, for holding those same sentiments.

So then you didn't understand the text you quoted at all. Got it.

Go back and reread it. It's ok, we'll wait.

 

[sinombre]

This thread was a good read. Thanks for bumping @DermViser